From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:02:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:02:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17371 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:02:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17367 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:02:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:02:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBF49199BF; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42CB6199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19MCY8-0000DY-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 14:01:56 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Subject: [9fans] VGA trubble agin Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:01:56 -0600 Hello, folks-- Well, I am making another attempt to install Plan9. This time the machine is a vintage IBM PC, and the video card is some sort of ATI Mach 64 PCI model (bought it used, so I don't have documentation for it ... suppose I can pull it out and look up the FCC ID if necessary). For a monitor, I'm using an AOC Spectrum 5E (identified as Generic 65 Mhz in plan9.ini, which I think is correct). Anyway, when I start up with the installation floppy, it goes through the loading sequence and starts up VGA, but with a twist: ... let's see if I can describe this ... VGA is clearly "working," and 2 or 3 windows are visible: a--is "virtual terminal" the right name?--an XTerm-like thingie, and something labeled "gnot" with several colored bars, BUT: the display is broken up into several vertical bands: if you can imagine taking a screenshot, making 4 or 5 copies, then cropping each one to a narrow vertical slice, with each slice starting slightly to the right of the previous one, then laying them out side by side with a 4-6-pixel dark stripe in between ... that's what it looks like. I should add that I've tried different video modes: 1024x768@16bpp, 1024x768@8bpp, 800x600@16bpp ... same thing happens regardless. Has anyone seen a phenomenon like this? I'm attaching my 'vgainfo.txt' and 'pci.txt' in case they are useful. I suppose I could try the built-in video card, but it's an S3 Trio64V+, and I see that's on the "not tested with this version" list. Anyway, I'd appreciate any suggestions you have. -- vgainfo.txt --------------------------------------------------------- main->snarf vga->snarf mach64xx->snarf vga->attr: 0xC00E1=MACH64GTPCIUYMU vga->dump vga misc 67 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 00 03 00 02 vga crt 5F 4F 50 82 55 81 BF 1F - 00 4F 0D 0E 00 00 05 F0 9C 8E 8F 28 1F 96 B9 A3 - FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 10 0E 00 - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 - 38 39 3A 3B 3C 3D 3E 3F 0C 00 0F 08 00 vga virtual 0 0 vga panning off vga vm a b 16777216 0 vga vmz 4194304 vga apz 8388608 vga linear 1 mach64xx->dump mach64xx pci 4b1a8 io 1000 pciregs mach64xx ccru 300 mach64xx HTotalDisp 004F005F mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 00010055 mach64xx VTotalDisp 018F01BF mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 000E019C mach64xx VlineCrntVline 019F03FF mach64xx OffPitch 0A000000 mach64xx IntCntl 00000015 mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 02410200 mach64xx OvrClr 40360C18 mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000 mach64xx CurClr0 000C9027 mach64xx CurClr1 88198202 mach64xx CurOffset 00000000 mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000 mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000 mach64xx ScratchReg0 04900400 mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000 mach64xx ClockCntl 00CD0000 mach64xx BusCntl 7333A040 mach64xx MemCntl 104211B7 mach64xx ExtMemCntl 05000001 mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000 mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000 mach64xx DacRegs 00FF3740 mach64xx DacCntl 8501600A mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000008 mach64xx ConfigCntl 00001002 mach64xx ConfigChipId 41004754 mach64xx ConfigStat0 00000015 mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000 mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000 mach64xx DspConfig 00000000 mach64xx DspOnOff 00000000 mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpPixWidth FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx LcdIndex 00000000 mach64xx LcdData 00000000 mach64xx PLL CD D5 21 14 9A 03 FB E8 - C4 00 00 E1 A6 1B 00 00 CD D5 21 14 9A 03 FB E8 - C4 00 00 E1 A6 1B 00 00 mach64xx VCLK0 25165286 mach64xx VCLK1 28347104 mach64xx VCLK2 0 mach64xx VCLK3 0 rom table offset 102 freq table offset 68A memclk 67000000 ref_freq 14320000 ref_divider 33 min_freq 9260000 max_freq 222180000 pd 3 value 0 (|3) post = 8 mach64xx pixel clock = 25160000 ATI BIOS rom 0x102 freq 0x0 clock 0x68a clocks: 43605 60224 19067 255 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 328 0 0 16969 programmable clock: 4 clock to program: 3 reference numerator: 14320 reference denominator: 1 internal clock reference divider in plls panelid 85 x 1 y 0 vmf 0 vmdf 40000000 vf1 0 vbw 65000000 vga->init mach64xx->init rom table offset 102 freq table offset 68A memclk 6700 memclk 6700... x 6.700000...t 6... xprec 3...fifosz 214.400000...fprec 8...prec 3...afifosz 32...fifooff 208.000000...pfc 4...rcc 5...fifoon 25.000000... dbdumpmode type=multisync65, size=800x600x16 frequency=40000000 x=800 (0x320), y=600 (0x258), z=16 (0x10) ht=1056 (0x420), shb=840 (0x348), ehb=1000 (0x3E8) shs=840 (0x348), ehs=1000 (0x3E8) vt=633 (0x279), vrs=605 (0x25D), vre=607 (0x25F) hsync=0, vsync=0, interlace=0 vga->attr: 0xC00E1=MACH64GTPCIUYMU vga->dump vga flag Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf vga misc E3 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 01 0F 00 0A vga crt 7F 63 68 9D 69 9D277 F0 - 00 60 00 00 00 00 00 00 25D 2F257 C8 6025D25E A3 -7FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 50 05 0F - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 - 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 41 FF 0F 00 00 vga virtual 800 600 vga panning off vga clock[0] f 40000000 vga clock[0] d i m 0 0 - 33 vga clock[0] n p q r 184 4 - 0 0 vga vm a b 16777216 0 vga vmz 4194304 vga apz 8388608 vga linear 1 mach64xx->dump mach64xx flag Ulinear|Uenhanced|Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf mach64xx pci 4b1a8 io 1000 pciregs mach64xx ccru 300 mach64xx HTotalDisp 00630083 mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 00140068 mach64xx VTotalDisp 02570278 mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 0002025C mach64xx VlineCrntVline 019F03FF mach64xx OffPitch 19000000 mach64xx IntCntl 00000000 mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 03010400 mach64xx OvrClr 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000 mach64xx CurClr0 000C9027 mach64xx CurClr1 88198202 mach64xx CurOffset 00000000 mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000 mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000 mach64xx ScratchReg0 04900400 mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000 mach64xx ClockCntl 00000002 mach64xx BusCntl 7333A040 mach64xx MemCntl 104211B7 mach64xx ExtMemCntl 05000001 mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000 mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000 mach64xx DacRegs 00FF3740 mach64xx DacCntl 8501600A mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000008 mach64xx ConfigCntl 00000000 mach64xx ConfigChipId 41004754 mach64xx ConfigStat0 00000015 mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000 mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000 mach64xx DspConfig 003A06B3 mach64xx DspOnOff 00C80680 mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpPixWidth 00040404 mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx LcdIndex 00000000 mach64xx LcdData 00000000 mach64xx PLL CD D5 21 14 9A 03 EB E8 - C4 B8 00 A1 A6 1B 00 00 CD D5 21 14 9A 03 FB E8 - C4 00 00 E1 A6 1B 00 00 mach64xx VCLK0 25165286 mach64xx VCLK1 28347104 mach64xx VCLK2 39917350 mach64xx VCLK3 0 rom table offset 102 freq table offset 68A memclk 67000000 ref_freq 14320000 ref_divider 33 min_freq 9260000 max_freq 222180000 pd 3 value 0 (|3) post = 8 mach64xx pixel clock = 25160000 main->exits -- EOF ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- pci.txt ------------------------------------------------------------- 0.0.0: 06.00.00 8086/04d0 0 0.1.0: 06.01.00 8086/122e 0 0.1.1: 01.01.80 8086/1230 0 4:00005001 16 0.11.0: 03.00.00 1002/4754 255 0:40000000 16777216 1:00001001 256 2:41000000 4096 0.8.0: 03.00.00 5333/8811 0 0:70000000 67108864 -- EOF ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:21:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:21:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17622 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:21:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17618 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:21:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67D5E199BB; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 780E6199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VGA trubble agin In-Reply-To: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:19:59 -0400 I know exactly what your screen looks like. Unfortunately, this sort of thing means the memory timings aren't quite correct w.r.t. the video timings, and I don't remember how to go about fixing it. It usually requires futzing with the driver. I hate the ATI Mach64 series. They require way too many weird calculations and we never got them right. You might have better luck with the Trio64V+ (or you might not, but it's worth trying). Those at least never gave me that weird striped effect. Another possibility is that you're running the monitor at too high a frequency, though if it fails at 640x480 then that's not the case (we use a standard frequency for 640x480). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18014 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18010 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:52:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52AFC19A89; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D997619981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19MDK0-0000Ga-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 14:51:24 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VGA trubble agin Message-ID: <20030531205124.GB627@swordfish> References: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:51:24 -0600 On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 04:19:59PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > You might have better luck with the Trio64V+ > (or you might not, but it's worth trying). > Those at least never gave me that weird striped > effect. OK, I pulled out the ATI card and am now trying with the S3 ... and I'm happy to say that it's working! Well, more or less. Actually, I specified 800x600x8 in plan9.ini, and my actual display is squashed horizontally so that it's more like 600x600. So I hope there's a way to fix this, but it's at least usable for the time being. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 05:57:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 05:57:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18073 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18069 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 05:57:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C328E19AA6; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from swordfish (unknown [216.241.35.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C891E19A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19MDOy-0000HF-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 14:56:32 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] VGA trubble agin Message-ID: <20030531205632.GC627@swordfish> References: <20030531200156.GA627@swordfish> <85550d0a21a8518c4b4434c6cdf44193@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030531205124.GB627@swordfish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030531205124.GB627@swordfish> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Matt Gushee List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:56:32 -0600 On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 02:51:24PM -0600, Matt Gushee wrote: > > OK, I pulled out the ATI card and am now trying with the S3 ... and I'm > happy to say that it's working! Well, more or less. Actually, I > specified 800x600x8 in plan9.ini, and my actual display is squashed > horizontally so that it's more like 600x600. So I hope there's a way to > fix this, In case anyone was going to worry about this, don't. I remembered the row of buttons on the bottom of my monitor. It's fixed. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 07:12:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 07:12:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19076 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 07:12:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19072 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 07:12:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 07:12:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B1F219A99; Sat, 31 May 2003 18:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A0F919A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 18:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4VMAmNx004101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:10:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h4VMAm5Q004097 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:10:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] plan9 resources in bulgarian Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Hello, Most of you would probably not be interested in this, but every once in a while I see postings from people with distinctively bulgarian names (and spelling errors ;) on this list, so I decided to start gathering all bulgarian plan9 resources in a common place, akin to the russian plan9 web page Andrey Kukhar (I believe) has at http://ask.km.ru/plan9/... the address for the bulgarian plan9 page is: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/bulgarian/ and I'd be happy to add any documents/translation/software written in bulgarian there... anyway, just for the archives... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:38:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:38:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20286 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:38:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20282 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:38:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:38:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D9A819A82; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound03.telus.net [199.185.220.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92BA619ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([207.6.125.223]) by priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030531233741.JEGE10340.priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net@localhost.localdomain> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 17:37:41 -0600 Received: (qmail 1029 invoked by uid 500); 31 May 2003 23:48:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> From: "Taj Khattra" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] compare-by-hash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 31 May 2003 23:48:03 -0000 do the venti/fossil folks have any comments on the 'An Analysis of Compare-by-hash' paper at HotOS-IX http://www.usenix.org/events/hotos03/tech/henson.html or is it crying wolf ? -taj From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:54:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:54:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20493 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:54:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20489 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:54:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:54:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFAC519B17; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5810519981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <25d1687f63e163bdd5b5c44e5be5a8d0@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 00:48:19 +0100 i suspect venti does actually do the extra check: packetSha1(p, score); u = lookupLump(score, type); if(u->data != nil){ ok = 1; if(packetCmp(p, u->data) != 0){ setErr(EStrange, "score collision"); ok = 0; } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:55:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:55:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20506 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:55:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20502 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:55:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:55:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A03E019B3E; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 497B519B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42a1ec9c5fef102e9c9ec920db53bccf@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 19:54:05 -0400 The paper seems correct on most things, but is unfair to Venti. Venti is closer to hashing than compare-by-hash. Venti does look for SHA1 hash collisions -- once a block with a particular SHA1 hash has been written, you can't write any others. Therefore you can't possibly end up thinking there are two different blocks stored on the same server and represented by the same SHA1 hash -- the store of the second will fail! Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:57:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:57:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20539 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:57:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20535 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:57:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:57:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C237319B41; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B064B19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030531234803.1028.qmail@infidel.telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 00:50:56 +0100 i did also think it was rich that someone from Sun suggests ``keep some state!'' to avoid undetected errors when people have had to suffer `stateless' NFS in various ways for years. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 08:59:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 08:59:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20559 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 08:59:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20555 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 08:59:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 08:59:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 444EF19AD1; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from otto.int.entrisphere.com (unknown [63.203.52.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AAD219B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:58:03 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C327D0.7881B116" Subject: RE: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <6A0F443DA784CE4E864740DD14BC16BB1003FA@otto.int.entrisphere.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <6A0F443DA784CE4E864740DD14BC16BB1003FA@otto.int.entrisphere.com> Thread-Topic: [9fans] compare-by-hash thread-index: AcMn0BGpowTW/r7kSZ24tYylcMt/rwAAGNrQ From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:58:02 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C327D0.7881B116 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 YW5kIHRoZW4gd2hhdD8NCg0KCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA0KCUZyb206IFJ1 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AAAAA5w= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C327D0.7881B116-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:01:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:01:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20641 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:01:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20637 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:01:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:01:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B31F19B33; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FCAB19A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <6A0F443DA784CE4E864740DD14BC16BB1003FA@otto.int.entrisphere.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:00:43 -0400 And then you're out of luck, but at least you're not blissfully using the wrong data. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:17:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:17:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20899 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:17:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20895 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:17:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:17:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 980F319ABA; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3247219981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 00:16:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:15:20 -0500 > > >And then you're out of luck, but at least you're >not blissfully using the wrong data. > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:24:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:24:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20962 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:24:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20958 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:24:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:24:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79B2F19B3F; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5574719B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52172b457fb0379198c1bed1613d51df@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:23:36 -0400 > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics > regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? Read the Venti paper and the link that was just posted. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:25:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:25:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20981 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20977 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:10 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:25:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F229419B29; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E20CF19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05063 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h510OS521703 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306010024.h510OS521703@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 31 May 2003 20:15:20 CDT." <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:28 -0400 > >And then you're out of luck, but at least you're > >not blissfully using the wrong data. > > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics > regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? Extremely low. It's much more likely the disk will spontaneously levitate first. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:25:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:25:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20990 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20986 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:25:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:25:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA96919A26; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 99AC419981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 00:24:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED95597.5000806@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <52172b457fb0379198c1bed1613d51df@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:23:35 -0500 > > >Read the Venti paper and the link that was just posted. > Done > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:29:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:29:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21048 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:29:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21044 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:29:10 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:29:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3E8E19B50; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2FFE19A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77CDD24FE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5897D27A; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:28:01 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 08:15:20PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > >And then you're out of luck, but at least you're > >not blissfully using the wrong data. > > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics I'm not sure I see why: are you equally paranoid that the bits in core will be flipped by a passing alpha particle? I have to confess I don't see why people are so afraid of randomization. For something like venti it is worth working out the numbers and probably worth detecting collisions, but the chances of silently losing/corrupting data due to disk firmware or driver bugs, for instance, seems much worse. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:46:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:46:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21265 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:46:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21261 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:46:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:46:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3FAE19B20; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12F4919AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h510jCO7016266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 17:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2bfd05fc9c83edad16da1284c188141b@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <200306010024.h510OS521703@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:49:28 -0700 > Extremely low. It's much more likely the disk will spontaneously > levitate first. A finite improbability then? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 09:49:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 09:49:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21299 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 09:49:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21295 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 09:49:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 09:49:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D2D519B4F; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 76C8519981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 20:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 00:48:05 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:46:44 -0500 > > >I'm not sure I see why: are you equally paranoid that the >bits in core will be flipped by a passing alpha particle? > I find that to be an odd comparison. Being aware of what variables are present in your environment and how they can possibly affect your work is imperative. I find it hard to see that as paranoia. I simply did not know the facts or the statistics. That's why I ask questions ;). >I have to confess I don't see why people are so afraid of >randomization. > Who said I was afraid of randomization? I just want to know the facts so that I am aware of the possibilities I must face when trusting a given environment. >For something like venti it is worth working >out the numbers and probably worth detecting collisions, but >the chances of silently losing/corrupting data due to disk >firmware or driver bugs, for instance, seems much worse. > That may be true, but, how can I know that without any facts? If you admit that venti is worth working out the numbers, why even make this rant? Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 10:39:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 10:39:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22048 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 10:39:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22044 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 10:39:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 10:39:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2B3819B7D; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE1D819B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F57724FAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8892225C; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 08:46:44PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > >For something like venti it is worth working > >out the numbers and probably worth detecting collisions, but > >the chances of silently losing/corrupting data due to disk > >firmware or driver bugs, for instance, seems much worse. > > That may be true, but, how can I know that without any facts? > If you admit that venti is worth working out the numbers, why > even make this rant? It isn't a rant. I'm just amused that people in general are often so worried about hash collisions but willing to tolerate common software systems which it is painfully obvious are far less reliable. For instance, where I have been working recently, people will trust important data to filesystems that are easily crashed and corrupted, but they worry more about sha1 hash collisions. I find fsck and failed disks much scarier since they can and do burn me with some regularity :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 10:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 10:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22118 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 10:44:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22114 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 10:44:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 10:44:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D41A19B4E; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 237C119A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h511hQO7018380 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 18:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] httpd scripting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 17:47:42 -0700 Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. P.S. Yes, I could go with Apache or something else on a different OS, but I don't want to. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 10:58:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 10:58:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22360 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 10:58:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22356 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 10:58:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 10:58:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6D7C19B43; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EC1CE19AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10887 invoked by uid 991); 1 Jun 2003 01:57:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20030601015744.10886.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: Message from "William K. Josephson" of "Sat, 31 May 2003 21:38:09 EDT." <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:57:44 -0400 | I'm just amused that people in general | are often so worried about hash collisions but willing to | tolerate common software systems which it is painfully | obvious are far less reliable. Agreed. Andrew Hume has written some nice usenix papers on the topic. In my experience, it's not at all uncommon for a big cluster to flip some bits when you aren't looking. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 11:00:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 11:00:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22387 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 11:00:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22383 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 11:00:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 11:00:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BA3919B87; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4389D19B71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 21:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 01:59:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:58:12 -0500 > > >It isn't a rant. > It's a rant when you assume things that are not proven. >I'm just amused that people in general >are often so worried about hash collisions but willing to >tolerate common software systems which it is painfully >obvious are far less reliable. > Maybe you should be less amused and more realistic, understanding that most people are secure in what techniques are proven over time. File systems bound by hashing isn't well known or used by the majority of people. I think people are just being safe with their data. When you put people in a situation where their critical data is placed in an unproved containment facility, they tend to have questions and doubts. That's nothing more than survival. Imagine if the CDC was introduced to a new technique for solidifying critical germs in vacuum facilities. Don't you think they would have a lot of questions, doubts and theories as to why the introduced technique may not work? >For instance, where I have >been working recently, people will trust important data to >file systems that are easily crashed and corrupted, but they >worry more about sha1 hash collisions. I find fsck and >failed disks much scarier since they can and do burn me >with some regularity :-) > Instead of condemning them for their 'worries', maybe you should sit down with them and discuss in detail the pros and cons of a hash based system. Allowing for open commentary and assertion of facts will help you win over most people. They're just looking for a sense of security and reliability. There isn't anything wrong with that. Work with people, not against them :) Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 11:58:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 11:58:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23308 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 11:58:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23304 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 11:58:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 11:58:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69EC319A85; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3296C19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40ED24FAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B0FF525C; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:57:00 -0400 From: "W. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash Message-ID: <20030601025700.GB94803@mero.morphisms.net> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 09:58:12PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > >It isn't a rant. > > It's a rant when you assume things that are not proven. Stop wearing your heart on your sleeve. > Instead of condemning them for their 'worries', maybe you should > sit down with them and discuss in detail the pros and cons of Get a grip: I'm not condemning anyone. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 12:09:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 12:09:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23494 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 12:09:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23490 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 12:09:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 12:09:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5A6E19981; Sat, 31 May 2003 23:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 942C719A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 31 May 2003 23:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-21-61.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.21.61 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 03:09:03 -0000 Message-ID: <3ED97C0E.1000604@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> <20030601025700.GB94803@mero.morphisms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:07:42 -0500 > > >Get a grip: I'm not condemning anyone. > lol > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 14:53:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 14:53:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26258 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 14:53:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26254 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 14:53:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 14:53:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E61319B21; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06DFF19A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h515qP522964 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306010552.h515qP522964@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 31 May 2003 16:49:28 PDT." <2bfd05fc9c83edad16da1284c188141b@centurytel.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 01:52:25 -0400 > A finite improbability then? That's a good way to put it. The more I think about the numbers (admitedly, very little; I'm thinking more about the wrist I sprained yesterday), I really do believe the disk would levitate before the average venti would encounter a score collision (statistically speaking, of course). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 18:04:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 18:04:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29478 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 18:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29474 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 18:04:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 18:04:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 908CB19A7A; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38A04199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <83292e13cedded89b34cb69fea8b7c3d@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <200306010552.h515qP522964@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:57:41 +0100 what's the prize for the first person who finds a clash? fame, of course, but i was hoping for a more concrete `and fortune'. by the way, how many of you ever had `Jackpot'? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 18:13:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 18:13:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29615 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 18:13:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29611 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 18:13:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 18:13:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B16AC19A9A; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 962DE19A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519Btl26386 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:11:57 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <83292e13cedded89b34cb69fea8b7c3d@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:06:55 +0200 > what's the prize for the first person who finds a clash? > fame, of course, but i was hoping for a more concrete `and fortune'. > It strikes me that reserving a byte or two in a Venti block would allow for as many as 256 or 65536 collisions before having to panic. Is it too high a price to pay, or am I missing something fundamental? ++L PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't seem to find a reference. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 18:31:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 18:31:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29866 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29862 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7D9419AA5; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB85C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519UYl26733 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:30:34 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:25:35 +0200 > PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't > seem to find a reference. I thought it was /mail/box/$user/headers but I could not get it to work. I see that marshal(1) does specify it. I must have had the wrong permissions. Sorry about the noise. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 21:33:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 21:33:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32618 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 21:33:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32614 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 21:33:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 21:33:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B066B19AA8; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8941319A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([144.135.25.72]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HFSYTN00.0TC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:32:11 +1000 Received: from cpe-203-51-70-206.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([203.51.70.206]) by psmam02bpa.bigpond.com(MAM V3.3.2 80/3388312); 01 Jun 2003 22:32:11 From: Nicholas Waples X-X-Sender: nickw@debian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:32:11 +1000 Bought a new video card today and it didnt work. So I modified nvidia.c from aux/vga (with the help of xfree86 drivers) and I now get a screen up. (it hasnt blown up yet). See http://www.pobox.com/~nickw/src/nvidia.c Nick. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 22:28:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 22:28:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1102 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 22:28:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1098 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 22:28:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 22:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7B8619AAE; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3808C19A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 22:27:00 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:27:00 +0900 Hello, >Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started >looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a >little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment >but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside >html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. I think the solution is (html scanner) + (bidirectional pipe to a program) though Pegasus does not offer such a scanner yet. Sorry if I misunderstand what you say. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 23:15:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 23:15:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1909 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 23:15:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1905 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 23:15:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 23:15:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E79819AC2; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9892119A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE boot? From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:14:16 +0100 rminnich@lanl.gov suggests: > andrey, you can get 1 GHZ M-EPIA cards for $100, run linuxbios, put 9load > in flash, and forget etherboot. A few months ago when similar motherboards were mentioned, nigel@9fs.org said: > Beware the Via C3 Eden ITX motherboard. Neither the ethernet, > vga, or audio are supported. > > I have (partial) solutions. Nigel, if you're reading this can you elaborate on your solutions? -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Jun 1 23:58:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Jun 1 23:58:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2670 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Jun 2003 23:58:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2666 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2003 23:58:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Jun 2003 23:58:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E52FC199B3; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6251E19A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4810414c980e3d7044031e38900b5cf2@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:57:49 -0400 Did you have to change the kernel too? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:12:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:12:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2866 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:12:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2862 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:12:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:12:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E4A519AD3; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBCBB199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212833-13175>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:11:17 -0400 Message-ID: <005b01c32850$0cd9c940$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4624842fa54a1aa9e4b1731a4779b82d@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> <20030601002801.GA94089@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED95B04.2070707@ameritech.net> <20030601013809.GA94559@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED96BC4.7080206@ameritech.net> <20030601025700.GB94803@mero.morphisms.net> <3ED97C0E.1000604@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:11:16 +0200 > Get a grip yup, cool Aerosmith CD. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:21:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:21:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2968 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:21:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2964 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:21:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:21:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 345CE19AF7; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4624D19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51FKcO7018387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 07:24:51 -0700 > I think the solution is > (html scanner) + (bidirectional pipe to a program) > though Pegasus does not offer such a scanner yet. I like that. Also, I am (sort of) considering a fs for scripting, mounted in httpd's namespace; Not sure how the user's client context would be forwarded to the fs (cookies, and the like). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:29:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:29:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3071 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:29:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3067 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:29:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:29:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 253C519AD7; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 845EE19AD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212842-13171>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:28:10 -0400 Message-ID: <009601c32852$68e6eea0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:28:09 +0200 > .... (cookies, and the like). those things should be blocked. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:37:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:37:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3201 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:37:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3197 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:37:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:37:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2505719AED; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8094A19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:19 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like a bug to me. I'll look at it. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:34 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:32 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBFAA19A9E; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB85C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519UYl26733 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:30:34 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:25:35 +0200 > PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't > seem to find a reference. I thought it was /mail/box/$user/headers but I could not get it to work. I see that marshal(1) does specify it. I must have had the wrong permissions. Sorry about the noise. ++L --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:46:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:46:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3349 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:46:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3345 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:46:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:46:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 909F719B02; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 876BD19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9fs.org ([192.168.100.103]) by 9fs.org; Sun Jun 1 16:45:36 BST 2003 Received: from 192.168.100.111 ([192.168.100.111]) by 9fs.org; Sun Jun 1 16:45:36 BST 2003 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] PXE boot? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:45:34 +0100 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu wrote: > rminnich@lanl.gov suggests: > >> andrey, you can get 1 GHZ M-EPIA cards for $100, run linuxbios, put >> 9load in flash, and forget etherboot. > > A few months ago when similar motherboards were mentioned, > nigel@9fs.org said: > >> Beware the Via C3 Eden ITX motherboard. Neither the ethernet, vga, >> or audio are supported. >> >> I have (partial) solutions. > > Nigel, if you're reading this can you elaborate on your solutions? > > -- Richard It all depends on the chipset used. Some of the faster boards have better devices. On my board, I have Via's own ethernet (Rhine II), a trident cyber type vga, and Via's own audio. I have a Rhine II driver, but there is enough fud on the FreeBSD mailing lists about the reliability of the silicon and the documentation is so poor I don't feel very confident about the driver. I struggled for a long time with the video without getting it to work at high resolutions, so have parked it for a bit. The Plan 9 audio interface only supports soundblaster, and there is no higher level interface to allow other styles, a la devether.c. The Via audio pretends to be soundblaster pro, but actually only has the registers. Instead, the driver catches accesses to the registers and maps it to the real PCI device. Again, I did some work on this, but have stopped for now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:54:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:54:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3482 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:54:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3478 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:54:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:54:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6058C19B04; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB6A519A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h51FqKNx014104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:52:20 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h51FqKOg014100 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:52:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:52:20 -0600 (MDT) did you try if this works: http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/geforce4/index.html this included PIDs for all cards of the GeForce4 series. I believe somebody reported from japan that at least on one GeForce 4400 (?) the cursor was vertically mirrored... andrey On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Nicholas Waples wrote: > > Bought a new video card today and it didnt work. So I modified > nvidia.c from aux/vga (with the help of xfree86 drivers) and I now > get a screen up. (it hasnt blown up yet). > > See http://www.pobox.com/~nickw/src/nvidia.c > > > > Nick. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 00:55:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 00:55:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3489 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 00:55:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3485 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 00:55:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 00:55:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D408319A00; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 388B419AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from term4e.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51FsGO7019361 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1959c9df27cfa878d2c76b7f01c26b9a@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <009601c32852$68e6eea0$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 07:58:30 -0700 >> .... (cookies, and the like). > > those things should be blocked. The only legitimate use I can think of (for a server) is keeping track of a session (identifying a session). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 01:01:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 01:01:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3581 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 01:01:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3577 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 01:01:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 01:01:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 712E419AFF; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23EB819A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557588-8236>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:59:50 -0400 Message-ID: <00ba01c32856$d50e79a0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1959c9df27cfa878d2c76b7f01c26b9a@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:59:49 +0200 > The only legitimate use I can think of .... i don't think it's 'legitimate use' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 01:25:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 01:25:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3848 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 01:25:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3844 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 01:25:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 01:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DFED19B0E; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FBC919B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <73bd82a1b7785e5f189b9cab6fa17fdc@plan9.bell-labs.com> x-quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:24:38 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it only allows headers starting with the following: [Hfrom] "from:", [Hto] "to:", [Hcc] "cc:", [Hbcc] "bcc:", [Hreplyto] "reply-to:", [Hinreplyto] "in-reply-to:", [Hsender] "sender:", [Hdate] "date:", [Hsubject] "subject:", [Hpriority] "priority:", [Hmsgid] "message-id:", [Hmime] "mime-", [Hcontent] "content-", [Hx] "x-", If you have something else, it ignores it. This was a failure of vision on my part, i.e., I used the same routine that parses the messages headers and it does that filtering. Should I be more liberal for /mail/box/$user/headers? --upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 11:37:23 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 11:37:20 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03AAD19ADB; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8094A19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:19 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like a bug to me. I'll look at it. --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:34 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Jun 1 05:31:32 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBFAA19A9E; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB85C199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h519UYl26733 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:30:34 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <2c612cc517a9935d33cae128875323ff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <6efe3aa0dfd24bebc73b92fe8f31d5bb@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:25:35 +0200 > PS: What's /acme/mail/Mail's secret location of user headers? I can't > seem to find a reference. I thought it was /mail/box/$user/headers but I could not get it to work. I see that marshal(1) does specify it. I must have had the wrong permissions. Sorry about the noise. ++L --upas-mvcmarnrfgkuatravapmvaddgc-- --upas-rqzicpezbsstzlmishrgwgjqel-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 01:49:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 01:49:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4095 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 01:49:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4091 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 01:49:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 01:49:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 360CE19B1D; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 697FB19B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7761d68e2e75078cc4af981e8c62b53c@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /mail/box/$user/headers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:48:55 -0400 new, more liberal, upas/marshal on sources. You can now stick any header you can make up into /mail/box/$user/headers. It does have to be formatted as a header, i.e., string: string. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 05:57:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 05:57:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6374 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 05:57:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6370 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 05:57:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 05:57:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA2C519A75; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0243B19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 05:56:36 JST 2003 Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <884914AE-9473-11D7-BB00-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:56:35 +0900 Hello, >Also, I am (sort of) considering a fs for scripting, mounted >in httpd's namespace; Fs idea may be interesting but might bring other problems. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 07:38:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 07:38:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7421 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 07:38:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7417 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 07:38:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 07:38:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31A6219B06; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from excite.com (pcp465807pcs.shrpsr01.tn.comcast.net [68.47.233.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1302D19ADF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.webhostings4u.com ([207.238.28.226]) by external.newsubdomain.com with NNFMP; Sat, 03 May 2003 11:36:17 -0100 Received: from unknown (31.23.3.129) by mtu23.bigping.com with local; Sat, 03 May 2003 10:33:35 -0900 Received: from unknown (HELO relay.2yahoo.com) (170.137.175.181) by public.micromail.com.au with esmtp; Sat, 03 May 2003 01:30:53 -0300 Message-ID: <8ba101c310f7$f82b7530$4bb04d55@gidget26xdok> From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 User-Agent: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Subject: [9fans] Up to 20-8O% savings on inkjets supplies. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:12:50 -0800 ODAlICAgUGVyY2VudCAgIG9mZiAgIFByaW50aW5nICAgU3VwcGxpZXMhICBq DQoNCkNvbWUgdmlzaXQgb3VyIHN0b3JlIGFuZCBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdoYXQg DQpvdGhlcnMgaGF2ZSBhbHJlYWR5LCBxdWFsaXR5IHByaW50aW5nIA0KY2Fy dHJpZGdlcyBhdCBncmVhdCBwcmljZXMuDQoNCldlIG9mZmVyIG1vc3QgYnJh bmRzIGluY2x1ZGluZywgSFAsIEVwc29uLCANCkNhbm9uLCBhbmQgTGV4bWFy ay4NCg0KVmlzaXQgdXMgdG9kYXkhDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9xa2NscmxzZmFjdUB3 d3cucy1tLWEtci10LS1iLXUteS1zLmNvbS92ZW1zLmh0bWw/YXFkcW51dmY9 eG13d3FmanNyZHl4dnZjaXdoaGVydg0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KICAgICAgMTAwJSBTYXRpc2ZhY3Rp b24gR3VhcmFudGVlZC4NCg0KeWF5d2NvZGVub3RvdGNteGVodGxvDQpfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KVG8gZGlz Y29udGludWUgYWR2ZXJ0aXNtZW50cywgdmlzaXQ6DQpodHRwOi8vc29pdXVo Y0B3d3cucy1tLWEtci10LS1iLXUteS1zLmNvbS9zMDQuaHRtbD91cXFweGRx d2prYW5vYndheHFoaWJnYj12eG5scXZsZ3Ntdnd2DQoNCmF5cXFnb3Z4ZXM= From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 07:56:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 07:56:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7580 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 07:56:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7576 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 07:56:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 07:56:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FDBB19A64; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BE1119A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35bd6c09a1f8cc6b79507c3dde215e81@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <83292e13cedded89b34cb69fea8b7c3d@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:55:15 -0700 I got jackpots from V6 diff often enough that I can still remember getting them. I can't recall any since then, and just looked at the V7 diff sources to see why: /* if(jackpot) mesg("jackpot",empty); */ Here's the explanation of what a jackpot is, from /sys/src/cmd/diff/diffreg.c:53,58 even though Plan 9 diff no longer contains any other references to jackpots: * With J in hand, the matches there recorded are * check'ed against reality to assure that no spurious * matches have crept in due to hashing. If they have, * they are broken, and "jackpot " is recorded--a harmless * matter except that a true match for a spuriously * mated line may now be unnecessarily reported as a change. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 13:10:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 13:10:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19972 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 13:10:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19968 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AC8B199F2; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9536019A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h5249Gl00254 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:09:18 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <99f73d6d838d4efaf7217975bb03ad4d@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:03:45 +0200 > Looks like a bug to me. I'll look at it. The very message you replied to had the additional headers in it. I'm sure it was a mistake on my part. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 13:16:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 13:16:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20283 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 13:16:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20279 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:16:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:16:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 744C719A76; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D91F219A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h524FZl00313 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:15:35 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] PXE boot? From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:10:05 +0200 Nigel Roles says: > > I have a Rhine II driver, but there is enough fud on the FreeBSD > mailing lists about the reliability of the silicon and the documentation > is so poor I don't feel very confident about the driver. > You'll get poor performance at worst, in my opinion. While fidgetting with the PCNet driver, I realised (mistakenly, maybe) that once the driver delivers integral ethernet packets in both directions, you're done. The next layers take care of making sure there's no additional corruption. Of course, efficiency may go out the window :-) > The Plan 9 audio interface only supports soundblaster, and there > is no higher level interface to allow other styles, a la devether.c. > The Via audio pretends to be soundblaster pro, but actually only > has the registers. Instead, the driver catches accesses to the > registers and maps it to the real PCI device. Again, I did some > work on this, but have stopped for now. Sounds like a good project, putting in place a multimedia infrastructure that is workable. All the other OSes need to paint themselves out of a legacy corner, Plan 9 may be luckier. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 13:20:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 13:20:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20476 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 13:20:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20472 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:20:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:20:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD71919AD6; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8294D19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from niggle.hq.iba.co.za (linux.iba.co.za [172.24.16.11]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h524Jkl00496 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:19:46 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <73bd82a1b7785e5f189b9cab6fa17fdc@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:14:15 +0200 > If you have something else, it ignores it. This was a > failure of vision on my part, i.e., I used the same > routine that parses the messages headers and it does that > filtering. Should I be more liberal for /mail/box/$user/headers? Yes. Although you've included X- which covers a lot of sins. I think "Organization:" ought to be in there, at the very least, but the user who sets this up oughtn't to need nannying (well, it's a user, unfortunately). ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 15:17:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 15:17:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25758 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 15:17:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25754 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 15:17:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 15:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD13019A7F; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6858B19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:18:19 +0900 > did you try if this works: > > http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/geforce4/index.html > > this included PIDs for all cards of the GeForce4 series. I believe somebody > reported from japan that at least on one GeForce 4400 (?) the cursor was > vertically mirrored... I don't know why you said me 'somebody'. However, I have much curiousity why two versions of nvidia drivers cannot be merged. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 15:22:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 15:22:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25937 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 15:22:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25933 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 15:22:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 15:22:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08B5D19ADF; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EFD519A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h526KWNx014756 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h526KW30014752 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:32 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:20:32 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > I don't know why you said me 'somebody'. > However, I have much curiousity why two versions of nvidia drivers > cannot be merged. > It was either Okamoto or Arisawa, it was too early in the morning to find out who exactly, besides, Montoya had just won the Monte Carlo grand prix. I apologize. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 18:18:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 18:18:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1051 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 18:18:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1047 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 18:18:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 18:18:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 967EE19A3E; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EB12199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19MlCn-0001Z2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:02:13 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <1259.3ed88bff.c6f5@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <3ED61D7E.1060108@proweb.co.uk>, <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:01:58 GMT Hi, > i never did anything but the most redimentary programming on the 380Z > though: BBC B's were the thing. it still amazes me how fast BBC basic > was, especially when i recall it used 32-bits (floating point by > default!) for all its arithmetic. IIRC, an unadorned variable, e.g. `foo' was a float stored in a non-IEEE five-byte format. `foo%' was a 32-bit integer. `foo$' was a string with maximum length of 255 bytes. It was fast, and the best BASIC around at the time. Largely due to the skill of its creator, Sophie Wilson. http://www.sophie.org.uk/ She later went on to design the ARM chip's instruction set, ARM originally standing for Acorn RISC Machine. BBC BASIC written in assembly for the ARM by Sophie has traditionally been a very good torture test for ARM instruction set emulators because of its author's in-depth knowledge. Another reason it was the best BASIC was it had 16K of ROM space all to itself thanks to the BBC's `sideway ROM' feature which allowed 16K for the OS, another 16K for the BASIC interpreter, 16K for the floppy disc filing system, etc. Each being paged in at the same address in memory as required. Most other home computers had, say, 16K for the OS+BASIC+everything else. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 18:56:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 18:56:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1932 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 18:56:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1928 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 18:56:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 18:56:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42B4619ADB; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta06ps.bigpond.com (mta06ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0014719A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([144.135.25.84]) by mta06ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06ps May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id HFUM8K00.GR2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:55:32 +1000 Received: from cpe-203-51-69-111.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([203.51.69.111]) by psmam06bpa.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 116/14319149); 02 Jun 2003 19:55:31 From: Nicholas Waples X-X-Sender: nickw@debian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:55:31 +1000 Nope, didnt see that. I did check my own 9fans archive, however I'd forgotten my hard disk died fairly recently so I wasnt searching much of an archive at all. Nick. On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > did you try if this works: > > http://www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9/geforce4/index.html > > this included PIDs for all cards of the GeForce4 series. I believe somebody > reported from japan that at least on one GeForce 4400 (?) the cursor was > vertically mirrored... > > andrey > > On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Nicholas Waples wrote: > > > > > Bought a new video card today and it didnt work. So I modified > > nvidia.c from aux/vga (with the help of xfree86 drivers) and I now > > get a screen up. (it hasnt blown up yet). > > > > See http://www.pobox.com/~nickw/src/nvidia.c > > > > > > > > Nick. > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 19:52:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 19:52:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3172 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 19:52:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3168 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 19:52:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 19:52:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E0CC19B07; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6656419AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4510 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 10:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 10:51:35 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB2C37.90201@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] memory stick References: <3ED61D7E.1060108@proweb.co.uk> <74ded0f5bd544f58fffc3c7e0f23884a@vitanuova.com> <20030530194338.G3780@edinburgh.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20030530194338.G3780@edinburgh.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 11:51:35 +0100 > > >In fact I've still got my Beeb (Model A upgraded to model B so as to >save 50 quid), kept for the express purpose of playing Elite, thought >the last time I played Elite was on a Beeb emulator. > > http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/Elite.jpg Now if only I'd kept the boxes of Leisure Suit Larry From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 20:56:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 20:56:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4891 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 20:56:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4887 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 20:56:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 20:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9132D19A2F; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CB35919A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15149 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 11:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 11:55:48 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:55:48 +0100 Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started >looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a >little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment >but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside >html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. > as someone who uses PHP (and previously ASP) professionally - don't 8) RC and friends is enough if want awk then use awk 8) as for cookies, headers etc. you just need a quick script to chuck the request into the environment (which is what PHP does) I did write a script to do it once http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=015d01c22ed3%24fcc596e0%246501a8c0%40KIKE&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:comp.os.plan9%2Bhttpd%2Bmatt%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D015d01c22ed3%2524fcc596e0%25246501a8c0%2540KIKE%26rnum%3D1 but I seem to have lost the code during a re-install (curses for putting the magic directory outside of /usr ) All you really need to do is split the headers on the first colon : ([^:]+): ?(.*) (after skipping past the first line) and then pop the results into the environment echo $match_2 > /env/$match_1 when you run out of matches the rest of stdin is the body & you might even be able to trust the Content-Length value From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:12:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:12:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5925 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:12:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5920 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:12:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:12:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB4AF199B9; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (unknown [67.65.88.161]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7FCC19A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kds (gw.eot.dbSystems.com [67.65.88.165]) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h52BYwe07985 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:34:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from gdb@dbSystems.com) Message-ID: <13b301c32900$56569700$644cb2cc@kds> From: "David Butler" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:12:51 -0500 I did a lot of work in the http area on Plan 9, back on version 2 of the system. I took the approach that anything is executable (compiled) instead of scripting. It was fast and very flexible. Perhaps I can see what it takes to get it on version 4 and make it available... David ----- Original Message ----- From: "matt" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:55 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting > Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > >Has anyone done any deep thinking on this? I've just started > >looking into it. I have looked at Pegasus, but I need something a > >little more specialized. My own preference is for an awk-like environment > >but nothing definite yet. I want to process code fragments inside > >html docs, the same thing as jsp,asp,php, etc. > > > > as someone who uses PHP (and previously ASP) professionally - don't 8) > > RC and friends is enough > > if want awk then use awk 8) > > as for cookies, headers etc. you just need a quick script to chuck the > request into the environment (which is what PHP does) > > I did write a script to do it once > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=015d01c22ed3%24fcc596e0%246501a8c0%40KIKE&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:comp.os.plan9%2Bhttpd%2Bmatt%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D015d01c22ed3%2524fcc596e0%25246501a8c0%2540KIKE%26rnum%3D1 > > but I seem to have lost the code during a re-install (curses for putting > the magic directory outside of /usr ) > > All you really need to do is split the headers on the first colon : > ([^:]+): ?(.*) > > (after skipping past the first line) > and then pop the results into the environment > > echo $match_2 > /env/$match_1 > > when you run out of matches the rest of stdin is the body & you might > even be able to trust the Content-Length value > > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:36:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:36:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6516 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:36:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6512 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:36:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:36:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF5A519AFD; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68FC219AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h52BbjG4012266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:37:45 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash In-Reply-To: <3ED953A8.2020806@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:37:45 -0400 (EDT) > Still, the knowledge that collisions have a probability > of occuring is slightly unsettling. What are the statistics > regarding probability of collisions in the venti, anyways? I do believe that Rob's answer to this question at FAST last year was, ``The probability that all the atoms on one side of the universe will up and move to the other.'' Now, whether that's scientifically accurate or simply good for dramatic effect is another issue. :) I still laugh when I think about the seat shifting that occurred when he said (app), ``look, you just have to get used to not deleting anything. It's not a problem.'' Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:42:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:42:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6613 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:42:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6609 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6178C19B09; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BA2B19A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:35:43 +0100 >>RC and friends is enough i did found that sufficient when i did a plan 9 httpd years ago, probably before asp let alone php had appeared. i used echo or cat and here documents quite a bit. i still think it seems better to generate the html within the (obviously) shared dynamic environment provided by the rc script rather than have lots of executable fragments embedded in html. it needn't be rc of course. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:43:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:43:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6628 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:43:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6623 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:43:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:43:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05E5319ABF; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A478119AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <212965-4561>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:41:47 -0400 Message-ID: <003301c32904$543e8fa0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] compare-by-hash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:41:45 +0200 say it once 'cryptographic hash'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 21:49:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 21:49:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6685 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 21:49:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6681 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 21:49:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 21:49:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C04419AEC; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 017F9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52CmK5s028807 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:48:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52CmJl2012400 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:48:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h52CmJ214750 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:48:19 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306021248.h52CmJ214750@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:48:18 +0200 Something funny I noticed when using fdisk on a new 80Gb Maxtor hard disk (diamondmax plus 9). When I used fdisk on the new disk, it reported 9809 cylinders of 8355840 bytes. After making and saving a partition, quitting and restarting fdisk reports 39704 cylinders of 2064384 bytes. (type script included at the end) After zeroing (the start of) the disk, fdisk again reports the 9809 * 8355840. This surprised me. In case it matters, I'm doing this on an old Gigabyte motherboard (GA-686SGM), which had a bios that did not support big disks, which I flashed with a bios someone (unfortunately, not gigabyte) patched for big disks. Is this BIOS playing tricks on me? (How much) should this worry me? I did not (yet) repeat the experiment on a different motherboard. (planning to do that, but thought I'd mention it here first anyway) It looks like I'm doing this with an older kernel (Feb 18) but fdisk is recent. Something else I noticed: for this disk (80Gb maxtor diamondmax plus 9) the ctl capabilities line does not contain dma or dmactl; for the 80Gb maxtor diamondmax plus d740X dma/dmactl are present in the ctl capabilities. Confused, Axel. Just to be complete: term% disk/fdisk /dev/sdD0/data disk/fdisk: did not find master boot record term% disk/mbr -m /386/mbr /dev/sdD0/data term% disk/fdisk /dev/sdD0/data cylinder = 8355840 bytes empty 0 9809 (9809 cylinders, 76.33 GB) >>> a p1 start cylinder: 0 end [0..9809] 130 >>> t p1 new partition type [? for list]: FAT32 >>> p ' p1 0 130 (130 cylinders, 1.01 GB) FAT32 empty 130 9809 (9679 cylinders, 75.32 GB) >>> w >>> q term% disk/fdisk /dev/sdD0/data cylinder = 2064384 bytes p1 0 526 (526 cylinders, 1.01 GB) FAT32 empty 526 39704 (39178 cylinders, 75.32 GB) >>> From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 22:10:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 22:10:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6980 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 22:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6976 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 22:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 22:10:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FE3219AAF; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A9A8119A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27259 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 13:08:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 13:08:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:08:51 +0100 Charles Forsyth wrote: >>>RC and friends is enough >>> >>> > >i did found that sufficient when i did >a plan 9 httpd years ago, probably before asp let alone php >had appeared. i used echo or cat and here documents quite a bit. >i still think it seems better to generate the html >within the (obviously) shared dynamic environment provided by >the rc script rather than have lots of executable fragments embedded in html. >it needn't be rc of course. > the "code fragments in the HTML" model is not very scalable in fact, content management becomes a total nightmare you have to move from "how is the HTML going to display the results of executing this code" to "what HTML should the code produce" It's like it starts you off at the wrong layer of abstraction From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 22:40:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 22:40:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7867 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 22:40:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7863 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 22:40:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 22:40:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E1C019B10; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 436A419ACA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-Reply-To: <200306021248.h52CmJ214750@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:42 -0400 It is true that most IDE's are chameleons, i.e., they can be told to display their geometry in different ways, i.e., with different numbers of cylinders, heads, and sectors. The identify command tells us the geometry. There is both a 'logical' and a 'actual' set of values in what is returned. We use the actual if its valid (a certain bit is set) but it may very well not be. Did you happen to get to plan 9 differently in the two instances? It could be that you're just seeing two different logical geometries of the same disk. In LBA mode, we don't use the logical geometries except to determine the number of disk blocks, so you should be OK in both cases (modulo the fact that one comes out to less sectors). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 22:52:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 22:52:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8142 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 22:52:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8138 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 22:52:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 22:52:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E635119991; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DB8019991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting In-Reply-To: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:51:18 +0100 i looked at the code, and the rule i used was simply that if the url for GET and POST corresponded to an executable file-- as gdb suggested not just an rc file, though i did use rc for many examples-- httpd forked the name space (having originally secured it) and environment, put some of the parsed data in the environment (could have served it up in files), optionally sent an HTTP reply header, and ran the program. if the executable file's suffix was .http, it was assumed to generate its own HTTP headers, otherwise httpd provided whatever was appropriate to the file's suffix. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:04:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:04:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8384 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:04:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8380 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:04:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:04:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F57D19B16; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0EB919ACA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52E355s001811 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:03:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52E34l2003099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:03:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h52E34215452 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:03:04 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306021403.h52E34215452@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:38:42 -0400." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:03:04 +0200 I booted plan 9 in the same way in both cases (kernel from flop, fs over the net). In /sys/src/libdisk/disk.c I found the following comment near the opendisk code, which explains the difference between opening a ``clean'' empty disk, and one already containing a partition table. However, I would have expected that reading (and using) the partition table on disk would give me back the number previously shown (and, written, I assume), by fdisk when I ran it first time. Axel. Comment found in /sys/src/libdisk/disk.c: * Discover the disk geometry by various sleazeful means. * * First, if there is a partition table in sector 0, * see if all the partitions have the same end head * and sector; if so, we'll assume that that's the * right count. * * If that fails, we'll try looking at the geometry that the ATA * driver supplied, if any, and translate that as a * BIOS might. * * If that too fails, which should only happen on a SCSI * disk with no currently defined partitions, we'll try * various common (h, s) pairs used by BIOSes when faking * the geometries. [maybe I should check that for the clean disk the second case is used, and not the third] > Did you happen to get to plan 9 differently in the two instances? > It could be that you're just seeing two different logical geometries > of the same disk. In LBA mode, we don't use the logical geometries > except to determine the number of disk blocks, so you should be OK > in both cases (modulo the fact that one comes out to less sectors). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:10:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:10:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8485 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:10:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8481 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:10:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:10:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A308319B18; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD4F119B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c1b80f583d8f15b118bf5ca32fa8223@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-Reply-To: <200306021403.h52E34215452@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:09:07 -0400 I'ld dump a bunch of prints in fdisk and see what it thinks its doing. At 835840 bytes/cylinder, the cylinders don't come out a multiple of 512 bytes which seems rather odd. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:14:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:14:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8544 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:14:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8540 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:14:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:14:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AC4D19B1C; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6191619B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19Mpxn-0007Fg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:07:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robin KAY Message-ID: <1054560528.52998.0@despina.uk.clara.net> Organization: www.gekkou.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20030529151809.29468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:06:41 GMT Scott Schwartz wrote: > The simplest thing is to disallow non-list-member postings. > We can figure out what to do about the usenet gateway afterwards. Implement a way to join the list but not actually receive any mail from it. Accept postings from the NNTP gateway that come from list members. -- Wishing you good fortune, --Robin Kay-- (komadori) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Jun 2 23:21:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Jun 2 23:21:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8716 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Jun 2003 23:21:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8712 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 23:21:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 23:21:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0D8019B1E; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFA7819988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52EK95s002469 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:20:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52EK8l2007272 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:20:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h52EK9C15609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:20:09 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306021420.h52EK9C15609@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:09:07 -0400." <9c1b80f583d8f15b118bf5ca32fa8223@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <9c1b80f583d8f15b118bf5ca32fa8223@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:20:08 +0200 When I looked at the fdisk source, I got the impression that it takes the disk geometry info from opendisk, so maybe also there interesting things happen (see the comment I posted in prev msg) I'll find some time (sometime next couple of days) and experiment a bit; when I find/know more, I'll post here. Thanks for listening! Axel. > I'ld dump a bunch of prints in fdisk and see what it thinks its > doing. At 835840 bytes/cylinder, the cylinders don't come out > a multiple of 512 bytes which seems rather odd. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 00:44:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 00:44:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9962 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 00:44:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9958 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 00:44:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 00:44:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 413BB19A53; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B14A19B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 19MrO6-0002Hf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:38:19 +0100 From: Ian Broster To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Message-Id: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19MrO6-0002Hf-00*NmYmr3T79o6* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:38:18 +0100 > the "code fragments in the HTML" model is not very scalable > > in fact, content management becomes a total nightmare I've come to the conclusion that neither 'code in HTML' nor 'HTML in code' are very good! Neither are easy to read, quotes mess everything up and it's hard to debug. My thought is to try to raise the abstraction higher. Here's how I'd like to code a server generated page. int some_data[5][5]; /*eg*/ create_my data(some_data); ... { new_web_page(template); add(some_data, how_to_add_intgers); add(sometext, how_to_add_text); ... done(); /* composes the page and writes it out*/ } Note that the ordering is not 'linear'. It doesn't matter which order the add() calls come. the 'how_to_add_text' things (whatever they are?) describe how the thing is presented in the markup language. Perhaps this has overtones of a Tk-like interface. Perhaps it's more object oriented. One day, I'd like to try to find the time to investigate. Maybe something already exists? ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:13:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:13:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10325 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:13:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10321 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:13:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:13:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E48DE19AFB; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C5DFF19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 57713 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 16:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 16:12:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB7782.9020708@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:12:50 +0100 > > >My thought is to try to raise the abstraction higher. >Here's how I'd like to code a server generated page. > >int some_data[5][5]; /*eg*/ >create_my data(some_data); >... >{ > new_web_page(template); > add(some_data, how_to_add_intgers); > add(sometext, how_to_add_text); > ... > done(); /* composes the page and writes it out*/ >} > > that's kind of how I do it add_head_item(''); $this->add_head_item(''); $this->add_h1('useful links'); $this->add_anchor('plan 9 homepage', array('href'=>'http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9', 'target'=>'_blank'); echo $this->get(); ?> and out pops a valid, well formatted html document I've added a few things to it over that last 6 months such that this site http://www.bigchoicemobilephones.com took about a week to build from scratch the body content sits in a directory tree outside of the webspace & the php pulls it all together From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:16:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:16:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10373 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:16:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10369 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:16:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:16:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1F0819B1A; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A3DE19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 19Mrxy-0003qO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:15:22 +0100 From: spam@broster.co.uk To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Message-Id: <20030602171520.2838d456.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19Mrxy-0003qO-00*0HagY7uX5hY* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:15:20 +0100 > Have you seen tclhtppd? It's on sourceforge. Have now. Thanks. Seems to be quite well thought out, although it is basically 'code in HTML', the separation of a template file from the code seems sensible. ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:23:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:23:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10404 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10400 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:23:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 868E819B2D; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AC9A919B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 59250 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2003 16:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proweb.co.uk) (192.168.1.100) by juice.thebigchoice.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 16:22:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDB79AF.7020104@proweb.co.uk> From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting References: <3EDB3B44.8030805@proweb.co.uk> <13b301c32900$56569700$644cb2cc@kds> In-Reply-To: <13b301c32900$56569700$644cb2cc@kds> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:22:07 +0100 David Butler wrote: >I did a lot of work in the http area on Plan 9, back on >version 2 of the system. I took the approach that anything >is executable (compiled) instead of scripting. It was fast >and very flexible. Perhaps I can see what it takes to get >it on version 4 and make it available... > >David > my only beef with ip/httpd is that it maps URIs to filenames (not that it keeps me awake at night) I've got over 500,000 URIs on one of my sites and, as such, mapping them, even via namespaces would be the wrong approach the world is an easier place if http://www.thebigchoice.com/Graduate_Jobs/IT_and_Management_Systems/York is the URI instead of http://www.thebigchoice.com/magic/show_jobs?section=Graduate_Jobs&job_section=IT_and_Management_Systems&area=York esp. when you factor in relative URIs in the resulting HTML m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 01:39:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 01:39:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10595 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 01:39:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10591 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 01:39:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 01:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D3E119A80; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CE2019B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00613642F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Geforce TI4200 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:38:16 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > However, I have much curiousity why two versions of nvidia drivers > > cannot be merged. Same here, especially now that I see this driver appears to also have 2Go support. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 02:56:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 02:56:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11653 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 02:56:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11649 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 02:56:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 02:56:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CC9B19A87; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 52A6A19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA26156 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:00:25 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA23347; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:55:49 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting In-Reply-To: <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:55:49 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ian Broster wrote: > > Perhaps this has overtones of a Tk-like interface. > Perhaps it's more object oriented. One > day, I'd like to try to find the time to investigate. > Maybe something already exists? > > ian > This feels similar to XML+DOM, which may be too buzzword-compliant for plan9, but was invented for this problem domain. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 09:33:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 09:33:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17905 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 09:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17901 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 09:33:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 09:33:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A189F19A06; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from n2now2844.com (unknown [64.110.8.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4C48E19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dr.Derrick Nyemegoh" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20030603003216.4C48E19A06@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] With Utmost Sincerity Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: derricknyemegoh@etoast.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:32:19 +0200 DR DERRICK NYEMEGOH=2C BRANCH MANAGER=2C UNITED BANK FOR AFRICA PLC ILUPEJU BRANCH LAGOS NIGERIA TELEPHONE=3A 234-1-776 0962 FAX=3A 234-1-759-4725 ATTN=3A PRESIDENT=2FC=2EE=2EO I am pleased to get across to you for a very urgent and profitable business proposal=2C though I don't know you neither have I seen you before but my confidence was reposed on you when the Chief Executive of Lagos State chamber of Commerce and Industry handed me your contact for a confidential business=2E I am the manager of United Bank for Africa Plc =28UBA=29=2C Ilupeju branch=2C Lagos Nigeria=2E The intended business is thus=3B We had a customer=2C a Foreigner =28a Turkish=29 resident in Nigeria=2C he was a Contractor with one of the Government Parastatals=2EHe has in his Account in my branch the sum of US 38=2E6 Million =28Thirty Eight Million=2C Six Hundred Thousand U=2ES=2E Dollars=29=2E Unfortunately=2C the man died four years ago until today non-of his next of kin has come forward to claim the money=2E Having noticed this=2C I in collaboration with two other top Officials of the bank have covered up the account all this while=2E Now we want you =28being a foreigner=29 to be fronted as one of his next of kin and forward your account and other relevant documents to be advised to you by us to attest to the Claim=2E We will use our positions to get all internal documentations to back up the claims =2EThe whole procedures will last only five working days to get the fund retrieved successfully without trace even now or in future=2E Your response is only what we are waiting for as we have arranged all necessary things=2E As soon as this message comes to you kindly get back to me indicating your interest=2C then I will furnish you with the whole procedures to ensure that the deal is successfully concluded=2E For your assistance we have agreed to give you twenty five percent =2825%=29 of the Total sum at the end of the transaction while 65% would be for my colleagues and I and the remaining 10% would be for any form of expenses that may be incurred during the course of the transaction which would be given to us when the money is transferred into your account before splitting the balance on the agreed percentage of 65% to 25%=2E I await your earliest response=2E Thanks=2C Yours Sincerely=2C DR DERRICK NYEMEGOH=2E From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 10:58:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 10:58:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21794 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 10:58:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21790 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 10:58:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 10:58:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1C2C19A10; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A818D19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <59c5b9bb02c1cdd213030d3d9458d521@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fdisk: reported number/size of cylinders changes In-Reply-To: <200306021403.h52E34215452@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:57:50 -0400 Libdisk/disk.c is where you want to look. Fdisk doesn't know anything about guessing geometries. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 12:30:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 12:30:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25572 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 12:30:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25567 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 12:30:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 12:30:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7DBE199BE; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2BB9A199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2741 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jun 2003 03:29:23 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] fossil server crashing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:29:23 -0700 As the subject says, my fossil server keeps locking up. It is most easy to duplicate by running the cpu command from a terminal. The disk activity light on the main hard drive lights up, and stays lit. If i run cpu from a drawterm connected to the auth server, to connect to the fossil server, i get the same results but the cryptic message "msgWrite: delay r Rflush tag 7" when i hit delete on the window. The 7 is actually a number from somewhere around 3 to usually 40 Everything, including the fossil server mounts their root off the fossil drive, which happens to be a scsi on a sd53xxx controller. Any ideas? this is mostly a recent thing since i pulled from sources From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 12:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 12:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25990 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 12:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25986 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 12:42:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 12:42:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31BD919A33; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 705A419A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Jun 2 23:41:16 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Mon Jun 2 23:41:13 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <93195e2ce4c0057b827857dd95f78d10@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil server crashing In-Reply-To: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:41:13 -0400 your subject says fossil is crashing. your text says fossil is hanging. the message about Rflush is harmless. it's just telling you that the flush implementation actually works. can you hear disk activity? perhaps there's a problem with the disk driver. fossil hasn't changed in months. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 12:46:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 12:46:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26130 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 12:46:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26126 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 12:46:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 12:46:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3862519A78; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ED3EC199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2915 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jun 2003 03:45:41 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil server crashing Message-ID: <20030603034541.GA2885@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> <93195e2ce4c0057b827857dd95f78d10@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <93195e2ce4c0057b827857dd95f78d10@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:45:41 -0700 On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 11:41:13PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > your subject says fossil is crashing. > your text says fossil is hanging. sorry, i was in a hurry, i have a broader definition of crashing...anyways > > the message about Rflush is harmless. > it's just telling you that the flush > implementation actually works. i thought anything would be helpful > > can you hear disk activity? > perhaps there's a problem with > the disk driver. the light comes on, thats it, i cant _hear_ any activity im trying to swap over to a nice simple ide drive, but its hard when I cant keep the fossil server up for more than a few minutes > > fossil hasn't changed in months. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 17:02:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 17:02:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4608 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 17:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4604 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 17:02:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 17:02:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2F2C19A28; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71E1F199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil server crashing From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:01:46 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you have your kernel sources uptodate wrt sources? Long ago there was a problem with the scheduler that allowed fossil to eat the cpu (because of a sleep(0) IIRC). I also run a fossil updated from sources and it runs just fine. Have you double checked diff'ing w/ sources? (I'd check fossil and kernel). Can you try using a fossil that runs off a different disk? (Or perhaps using a kfs on the disk and starting a fossil running from a file), just to see if it's a sd thing (I'm using ide). --upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Jun 3 05:30:23 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7DBE199BE; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2BB9A199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2741 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jun 2003 03:29:23 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030603032923.GA2474@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] fossil server crashing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:29:23 -0700 As the subject says, my fossil server keeps locking up. It is most easy to duplicate by running the cpu command from a terminal. The disk activity light on the main hard drive lights up, and stays lit. If i run cpu from a drawterm connected to the auth server, to connect to the fossil server, i get the same results but the cryptic message "msgWrite: delay r Rflush tag 7" when i hit delete on the window. The 7 is actually a number from somewhere around 3 to usually 40 Everything, including the fossil server mounts their root off the fossil drive, which happens to be a scsi on a sd53xxx controller. Any ideas? this is mostly a recent thing since i pulled from sources --upas-xjksaivodkefkxqiphodonzszd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 18:59:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 18:59:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8681 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 18:59:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8677 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 18:59:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 18:59:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5090019A60; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AC6319995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19N8Kn-0005Ry-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robby Message-ID: <5YZCa.5429$iO3.35296367@news-text.cableinet.net> Organization: Unorganised Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:42:20 GMT In article <20030602163818.316ebbf5.spam@broster.co.uk>, spam@broster.co.uk (Ian Broster) writes: >> the "code fragments in the HTML" model is not very scalable >> >> in fact, content management becomes a total nightmare > > I've come to the conclusion that neither 'code in HTML' nor 'HTML > in code' are very good! Neither are easy to read, quotes mess > everything up and it's hard to debug. > > My thought is to try to raise the abstraction higher. > Here's how I'd like to code a server generated page. > > int some_data[5][5]; /*eg*/ > create_my data(some_data); > ... > { > new_web_page(template); > add(some_data, how_to_add_intgers); > add(sometext, how_to_add_text); > ... > done(); /* composes the page and writes it out*/ > } > > > Note that the ordering is not 'linear'. It doesn't matter which > order the add() calls come. the 'how_to_add_text' things > (whatever they are?) describe how the thing is presented in > the markup language. > > Perhaps this has overtones of a Tk-like interface. > Perhaps it's more object oriented. One > day, I'd like to try to find the time to investigate. > Maybe something already exists? > > ian This kind of reminds me of a posting to comp.compilers, which I love to whip out whenever somebody wants to understand function pointers or variable arguments. I don't know if this "just" works in plan9, though. I haven't had the need to try something like this out yet. Robby > From telnet@wagner.Princeton.EDU.composers Wed Jul 8 06:40:19 1998 > Newsgroups: comp.compilers > Subject: Re: writing an assembler! > Date: 8 Jul 1998 01:40:01 -0400 > Organization: Chemistry Department, Princeton University > Message-ID: <98-07-062@comp.compilers> > Keywords: macros, design > Lines: 70 > In article <98-07-005@comp.compilers>, "Dr Richard A. O'Keefe" writes: > > These days, my language of choice for doing this would be Lisp or Ada > > (sensible macros are about *trees*, not strings!) but you can > > certainly use C as an assembler quite effectively. > > [It's a disgusting hack, but it's a great disgusting hack. -John] > > You can get away with tree-like behavior in C if you use varargs stuff. > I'll risk my reputation (:-)) by admitting to an even more disgusting hack: > --- > void new_section(char *title, char *img_name, int h, int w) { > emit(html_list, > html_p, > html_hr, > html_br, > html_region, "center", > html_region, "h1", > html_text, title, > html_tag, "img", > html_param, "src", html_string, fname, > html_param, "height", html_text, h, > html_param, "width", html_text, w, > 0, > 0); > } > --- > typedef void (*html_func)(va_list *); > > void emit(html_func first, ...) { > va_list ap; > > va_start(ap, first); > (*first)(&ap); > va_end(ap); > } > > void html_list(va_list *ap) { > html_func f; > > while (1) { > f = va_arg(ap, html_func); > if (f == 0) break; > > (*f)(ap); > } > } > > [etc] > --- > > A disgusting hack? Absolutely. > > But it's also an order of magnitude more powerful than any other > dynamic HTML tool I've worked with, and it only took me an hour or so > to implement. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tim Hollebeek > email: tim@wfn-shop.princeton.edu > URL: http://wfn-shop.princeton.edu/~tim > > [Wow, that's loathsome. I really like it. -John] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Jun 3 21:52:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Jun 3 21:52:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12673 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Jun 2003 21:52:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12669 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 21:52:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 21:52:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26AEE19A0B; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (wilbur.25thandclement.com [64.62.167.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1091119A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilbur.25thandClement.com (william@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h53CoCah017695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from william@localhost) by wilbur.25thandClement.com (8.12.7/8.12.6/Submit) id h53CoCnr024029 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Ahern To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] httpd scripting Message-ID: <20030603125012.GA824@wilbur.25thandClement.com> References: <3EDB4C63.5080902@proweb.co.uk> <5YZCa.5429$iO3.35296367@news-text.cableinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5YZCa.5429$iO3.35296367@news-text.cableinet.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:50:12 -0700 From telnet@wagner.Princeton.EDU.composers Wed Jul 8 06:40:19 1998 Newsgroups: comp.compilers > You can get away with tree-like behavior in C if you use varargs stuff. > I'll risk my reputation (:-)) by admitting to an even more disgusting hack: > --- > void new_section(char *title, char *img_name, int h, int w) { > emit(html_list, > html_p, > html_hr, > html_br, > html_region, "center", > html_region, "h1", > html_text, title, > html_tag, "img", > html_param, "src", html_string, fname, > html_param, "height", html_text, h, > html_param, "width", html_text, w, > 0, > 0); > } > > A disgusting hack? Absolutely. > > But it's also an order of magnitude more powerful than any other > dynamic HTML tool I've worked with, and it only took me an hour or so > to implement. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- this is very similar to XSL: trees, nodes, concept of tags built into language. c/o xsltproc from libxml2 for an XSLT processor, and zvon.org for really good tutorials. the beauty of XSL is that you can cleanly separate your content production logic from your presentation logic. - Bill From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 01:04:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 01:04:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16460 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 01:04:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16456 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 01:04:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 01:04:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A27C719A8F; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84D2A19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d8682ecb075633ec59029eb6fdbc3a3@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Mp3 Resources From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <01f201c326bd$674bc840$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:59:48 +0100 > > deep water soloing? > did you _read_ the script? hit send before i realised the link pertained to the acronym... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 03:46:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 03:46:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18377 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18373 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 03:46:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC5EF19A05; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61129199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h53IgmNx019471 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h53Igmel019467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 (MDT) this adds VIDs and DIDs for two D-Link ethernet cards, based on the Realtek 8139 chipset. the cards are not on-board (we bought them for a couple of boards that have unsupported gigabit cards to use until we write a driver) and are reasonably cheap ($16 CAD)... fyi :) andrey cpu% diff ether8139.c /sys/src/9/pc/ether8139.c 639,640d638 < { "dfe-538tx", (0x1300<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-538TX */ < { "dfe-560txd", (0x1340<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-560TXD */ cpu% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 06:52:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 06:52:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20706 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 06:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20702 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 06:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 06:52:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00912199EC; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7864519995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:47:38 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Andrey, I tried to mail this to you, but got 554 fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ESMTP not accepting messages] What are the unsupported gigabit cards and which ethernet chip(s) do they use? --upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.3]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 3 11:46:09 PDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by collyer.net; Tue Jun 3 11:46:08 PDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0EF5199EC; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61129199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h53IgmNx019471 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h53Igmel019467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:42:48 -0600 (MDT) this adds VIDs and DIDs for two D-Link ethernet cards, based on the Realtek 8139 chipset. the cards are not on-board (we bought them for a couple of boards that have unsupported gigabit cards to use until we write a driver) and are reasonably cheap ($16 CAD)... fyi :) andrey cpu% diff ether8139.c /sys/src/9/pc/ether8139.c 639,640d638 < { "dfe-538tx", (0x1300<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-538TX */ < { "dfe-560txd", (0x1340<<16)|0x1186, }, /* D-Link DFE-560TXD */ cpu% --upas-eodgbzqlrhfyowwjxzenzrlakg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 10:47:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 10:47:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27906 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 10:47:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27902 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 10:47:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 10:47:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B3C919A6D; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6355819A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:44:47 +0900 If we consider an acme application which has horizontal long list, such as tupples in database, we now has problem. Of course, I know it can be done for another windowing application such as marsv. However, that kind of application is mainly for text based, and I think it should be done on acme. Did anyone work on this aspect? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 12:54:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 12:54:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1079 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 12:54:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1073 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 12:54:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 12:54:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D38AF19980; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B92E6199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h543oiNx020032 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:50:44 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h543ohgs020028 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:50:43 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:50:43 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > [Andrey, I tried to mail this to you, but got > 554 fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ESMTP not accepting messages] > > What are the unsupported gigabit cards and which ethernet chip(s) do > they use? > 3C940 (also known as 3C2000) -- vid 10b7 (3Com), did 1700; it came on board of an asus 8C400 motherboard. asus' web site has a driver for linux (thanx north_ :) which i haven't had the time -- i just set up the machine with the d-link today and didn't have time to look at what could be supported off the bat. oh, yeah -- they're putting a new firewall at the university. no internet all morning, they probably screwed up the mail server too... :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 13:22:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 13:22:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2454 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 13:22:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2450 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 13:22:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 13:22:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D2A8199E8; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBB9F19A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h544LWIs009458 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:21:32 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h544LWj6013353 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:21:32 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:21:32 -0600 (MDT) The geode cluster Andrey mentioned has a clone that etherboots linux and comes up running bproc etc. (see clustermatic.org for info on this). The two clusters are identical in every way. Time from power-on to full cluster ready to roll (i.e ready for bproc equivalent of 'cpu'): 10 seconds Some timing for same hardware with 9load/plan 9: 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt Obviously we'll try to speed this up just a bit, but still, it's not too terrible. I need to get it to skip the prompt step but that doesn't seem like a big deal (there is no console, really, on these machines, so a prompt is rather unimportant, esp. given there is only one choice) Overall there's lots more procs needed to make the plan 9 nodes work as cluster nodes than the Linux bproc stuff -- about a factor of 5. bproc does remote exec somewhat faster, I'm working on the #s there too. But plan 9 does do some thing better than bproc. So it's a bit of a wash in most ways. Nevertheless I'm going to see what else I can eliminate. Anyway, this is just FYI, I'm hoping to get good ideas from people at usenix on reducing some overheads on this system. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 13:48:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 13:48:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3417 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 13:48:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3413 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 13:48:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 13:48:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57DE419A72; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 986D9199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h544j3Nx020129 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:45:03 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h544j3Y3020125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:45:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:45:03 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether > 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 > 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt > as far as i remember (it was a year ago, but should still hold) the problem with booting speed came from the fact that you have no plan9.ini to feed 9load with. when it doesn't know what to boot it probes everything (and sometimes probes it anyways -- just to be able to prompt you with choices).. i just tried this -- a cpuserver under vmware boots to prompt in 17 seconds with me hitting enter at the prompt and 27 seconds when the prompt timeouts. that's with a local harddrive... only my theory, though. i'd be happy to hear other opinions :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:07:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:07:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9775 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:06:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9771 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:06:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:06:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AF9719A73; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACD4919A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:58:26 +0100 i'd try to find another scheme. in my experience, and i'm fairly sure i'm not the only one, having two scrollbars hardly ever works sensibly in practice: you rarely want to move in just one dimension at once, so you end up having to flit between them, typically losing context whilst doing so. it's particularly bad for program text and web pages. indeed, i'd say it's a good example of an attempt to appear to solve a problem without actually doing so. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:31:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:31:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10954 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:31:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10950 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:31:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:31:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CA5519A81; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3470D199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <217555-12330>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:30:16 -0400 Message-ID: <002901c32a6b$249ad520$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:30:14 +0200 > i'd try to find another scheme. i'm pretty sure rob said at one point that he wasn't really convinced by acme's 'rolodex' approach to window access. i like a lot of the ideas in acme, but i just can't use it. the two scroll bar idea is just a disaster. perhaps being able to 'pan and scan' [like many GPS receivers support] would eliminate the need for such a hideous kludge. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:46:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:46:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11580 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:45:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11576 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:45:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:45:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 548A319A8A; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01B8019A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30278959ab62af842970c5f0411e7a63@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:46:53 +0900 Hi, Charles, > you end up having to flit between them, typically losing context > whilst doing so. I agree with this point. Yes, it's hard to image the whole sentence when we scrolled up the part of the whole. >it's particularly bad for program text and web > pages. indeed, i'd say it's a good example of an attempt to appear to > solve a problem without actually doing so. Yes, I thought once to display the querried result in a vertical dorection where many attributes are aligned vertical, and instances are in horizontal. This may be good if we could have a possibillity to exchange the vertical and horizontal axis on a fly. Is this an better idea? kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:48:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:48:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11736 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11732 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:48:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:48:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A65DA19A97; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1040019A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <388a995887eed9ca31c6d1bfc1b71a5b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <002901c32a6b$249ad520$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:49:33 +0900 > by acme's 'rolodex' approach to window access. i like a lot of What means 'rolodex'? My dictinary has no this word... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 16:57:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 16:57:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12263 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 16:57:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12259 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:57:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:57:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 562DE19AA3; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B98219A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 03:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <30278959ab62af842970c5f0411e7a63@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:58:13 +0900 > This may be good if we could have a possibillity to exchange the vertical > and horizontal axis on a fly. Is this an better idea? I meant to flipt the following tupple's list |1111|2222|3333|4444|5555|6666|7777| <--- tupple1 |2222|3333|4444|5555|6666|7777|8888| <--- tupple2 |3333|4444|5555|6666|7777|8888|9999| <--- tupple3 into t1 t2 t3 |1111|2222|3333| |2222|3333|4444| |3333|4444|5555| |4444|5555|6666| |5555|6666|7777| |6666|7777|8888| |7777|8888|9999| on a fly. kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 17:05:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 17:05:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12635 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12631 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D603919A6F; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF9E19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557114-27704>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:47 -0400 Message-ID: <005201c32a6f$f614ca80$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <388a995887eed9ca31c6d1bfc1b71a5b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:04:44 +0200 > What means 'rolodex'? http://www.eldonoffice.com/rolodex From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 18:05:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 18:05:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14745 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 18:05:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14741 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 18:05:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 18:05:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9264A199E4; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 05:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E2C2199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 05:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <005201c32a6f$f614ca80$e3944251@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:06:07 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, boyd. Aaa, acme resembles really 'rolodex'. Kenji --upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by diabase; Wed Jun 4 17:07:31 JST 2003 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h548J5Ks025208 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:19:05 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3p2/3.7W-03041814) with ESMTP id RAA05360 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D603919A6F; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF9E19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557114-27704>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:04:47 -0400 Message-ID: <005201c32a6f$f614ca80$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <388a995887eed9ca31c6d1bfc1b71a5b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:04:44 +0200 > What means 'rolodex'? http://www.eldonoffice.com/rolodex --upas-olqyndsgsavjzbsxcewlfnrypi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 20:00:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 20:00:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18141 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 20:00:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18137 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 20:00:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 20:00:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1A4C19AA0; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A18731998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc095 ([144.32.41.96] ident=ianb) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 19NVrQ-0001R9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:51:16 +0100 From: spam@broster.co.uk To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] horizontal scroll for acme? Message-Id: <20030604115117.008847a7.spam@broster.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19NVrQ-0001R9-00*umbBLbMWxuo* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:51:17 +0100 > If we consider an acme application which has horizontal long > list, such as tupples in database, we now has problem. It's also possible to edit many formats of bit-map graphics in Acme, but I prefer to use a different tool. Perhaps a database rather than a text editor is the best way to edit large tuples, even if the representation is ASCII based? On the other hand, I understand the problem, and I wondered if an Acme tool is possible that handles columated data, allowing navigation and selecting of rows? (Is this a minimal spreadsheet program?) I decided in the end that the data should be handled by other tools and \include'd into the document I was writing. ian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 20:24:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 20:24:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18813 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 20:24:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18809 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 20:24:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 20:24:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F268B19AAB; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA96119A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:27:01 +0100 i suppose it's nice when booting is fast during development or on a mobile device, and it's always good to avoid wasting time (eg, by probing nonexistent drives) but in a production grid environment you won't be rebooting that often will you? just curious, really. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 23:33:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 23:33:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23068 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 23:32:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23064 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 23:32:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 23:32:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AC8419A7B; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7808519A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EVVqj006990 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EVVj6027992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether > > 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 > > 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt > > > > as far as i remember (it was a year ago, but should still hold) the problem > with booting speed came from the fact that you have no plan9.ini to feed > 9load with. when it doesn't know what to boot it probes everything (and > sometimes probes it anyways -- just to be able to prompt you with choices).. I already commented out that table (I forget the name) in 9load such that it only probes ether. see you at usenix, we'll make it faster there :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Jun 4 23:40:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Jun 4 23:40:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23177 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Jun 2003 23:40:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23173 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 23:40:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 23:40:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CE7219A95; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9EC819A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EdYqj010815 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:39:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54EdXj6028305 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:39:33 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:39:34 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > i suppose it's nice when booting is fast during development or on a > mobile device, and it's always good to avoid wasting time (eg, by > probing nonexistent drives) but in a production grid environment you > won't be rebooting that often will you? depends on the "grid" (grid being a very new term for an idea that is at least 25 years old -- see RSEXEC on the early Arpanet on TOPS-10). Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many environments -- not just US Gov't either, industry people can be quite paranoid. So it matters. In other cases, e.g. SETI@home, I guess rebooting your windows box every time it stops would be bad :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 00:43:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 00:43:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24245 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 00:43:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24241 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 00:43:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 00:43:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28BEF19AA2; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00A3F19A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h54FdPNx021241 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:39:25 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h54FdPFk021237 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:39:25 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:39:25 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many > environments > in plan9 you could say that it suffices to get rid of the namespace of the job that had just completed :) there's another point that should be made (not that there's much interest in this discussion, but anyway): 9load does a very good job at what it's supposed to do. trying to accomplish a similar configuration under different operating systems is a much bigger PITA than it is with 9load+plan9.ini... A testament to that must be the amount of change to the source code that was required to fit 9load into the booting model that Ron demanded -- it's minimal at best :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 01:15:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 01:15:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24776 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 01:15:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24772 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 01:15:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 01:15:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 126EE19A8D; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E248019AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h54G8gNx021324 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:08:42 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h54G8giM021320 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:08:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:08:42 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Geoff Collyer wrote: > What are the unsupported gigabit cards and which ethernet chip(s) do > they use? more information on that (now that i had time to read through) -- the chipset is the SysKonnect XMAC II/GEnesis one (www.syskonnect.de).. the linux driver has support for SK-98xx cards (from the above web page), 3com's 3c940, Cnet's gigacard, D-Link and Linksis' "gigabit network adapter". the *bsd drivers list support for SK-984* bsd's driver points to this document: http://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/SysKonnect/xmacii_datasheet_rev_c_9-29.pdf there must be something on the syskonnect site too, but i haven't found it yet. so, do you have anything for those already, or do you mind me starting one? if you do i'd gladly help with debugging :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 01:50:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 01:50:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25286 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 01:50:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25282 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 01:50:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 01:50:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 748A019A9D; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD89B19ABD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:46:17 -0400 On Wed Jun 4 00:22:20 EDT 2003, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > ... > Some timing for same hardware with 9load/plan 9: > > 0->10 seconds: 9load is up and has loaded the plan 9 kernel over ether > 10-20 seconds: no real output from plan 9 > 20-30 seconds (or so): until I get the 'boot from [il]' prompt > ... i just tried some boots without a plan9.ini (9load tweaked to probe suitable ether devices, but no other changes). the machine is a standard asus k7m motherboard with a floppy and 2 ether cards, no other peripherals: it takes 20s from power on to get 9load off the floppy, probe for peripherals and get to the 'boot from: ' prompt; it takes 3s after typing 'ether0!/386/9pccpu' to the above prompt to get the kernel over the ether and get the 'root is from (il, tcp)[il]: ' prompt. perhaps the kernel is poking some other peripherals on your system (e.g. things that look like discs) to create the delay you see after the kernel is loaded? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 05:23:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 05:23:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28055 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 05:23:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28051 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 05:23:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 05:23:38 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26231199ED; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C62B5199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-29-76.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.29.76 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 20:22:17 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDE62B4.5020106@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:20:52 -0500 > > >Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many >environments -- not just US Gov't either, industry people can be quite >paranoid. So it matters. > Ron, can you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why a CPU should reboot and foggy on when you deem a job 'over'. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 07:39:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 07:39:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29697 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 07:39:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29693 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 07:39:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 07:39:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B206419A69; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72331199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54Mc9qj020223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:38:09 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h54Mc9j6019708 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:38:09 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:38:09 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > perhaps the kernel is poking some other peripherals on your system (e.g. things > that look like discs) to create the delay you see after the kernel is loaded? next on my list, that's a good thing to check. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:02:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:02:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29980 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:02:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29976 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:02:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:02:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA8CC19A86; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 407C619A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h54N6Rf09904 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:06:27 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3EDE62B4.5020106@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:06:27 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > >Yes, in many cases, CPU servers should reboot after each job, in many > >environments -- not just US Gov't either, industry people can be quite > >paranoid. So it matters. > > > Ron, can you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why a CPU should > reboot and foggy on when you deem a job 'over'. Memory leakage, if all the memory isn't written to a known state then in some environments a serious security risk may be opened. Swap is another well known example. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:27:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:27:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30310 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:27:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30306 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:27:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:27:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C500719AAC; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7D63719A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-29-76.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.29.76 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 23:26:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3EDE8DD6.6060101@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:24:54 -0500 > > >Memory leakage, if all the memory isn't written to a known state then in >some environments a serious security risk may be opened. Swap is another >well known example. > Rebooting doesn't eradicate that vulnerability. It only obfuscates its scope. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:34:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:34:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30425 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:34:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30421 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:34:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:34:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 724C119AAD; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4871D19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5e5ecfae8bd0a71338e0f18173b5c0c8@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:33:03 -0700 I'm not sure; I'll have to look at the syskonnect web site. I've revived the NS 83820 driver, which drives some cards I have from either d-link or linksys; I can't remember which. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 08:44:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 08:44:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30628 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 08:44:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30624 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 08:44:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 08:44:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD55819AB5; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C38DF19AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] D-Link 538 support (RTL8139 chipset) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:43:14 -0700 Ah, my 83820 cards are D-link DGE-500Ts. It appears that SysKonnect have done their own unique thing. The GEnesis Ethernet ASIC seems to be unlike the 83820. The 83820 cards have disappointing performance (rougly 100Mb/s) and I'd be tempted these days to go with the Intel PRO/1000 cards. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 10:33:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 10:33:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2401 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 10:33:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2397 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 10:33:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 10:33:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6A5119AB1; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web40413.mail.yahoo.com (web40413.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C571419AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.210.205.126] by web40413.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:32:40 PDT From: "A. Baker" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:32:40 -0700 (PDT) I'd be (wildly) interested in comments of the security persuasion. (Plan 9s current model vs Unix (yes I RTFM, TYVM :-) vs Process-Based Security(PBS), vs ... ? See This? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=620&ncid=620&e=4&u=/nf/20030603/bs_nf/21652 (in essence) HydraOS "It is "the first hack proof Web-services appliance -------------8<------------- (Welllll?) http://www.thirdpig.com/brickserver.htm -------------8<------------- which can defend against such an attack and will never crash," Bodacion Technologies chief software architect Eric Uner told NewsFactor. "The server's combination of complex mathematics and embedded systems makes it impervious." The Hydra operating system (OS) is composed of a small real-time nano-kernel, TCP/IP networking stack, Web server, FTP server and file system designed by former Motorolasoftware engineers Uner and Eric Hauk. Hydra's kernel is loaded from flash memory rather than disk, according to company specifications. Each time Hydra loads the kernel, it checks for viruses, then constantly scans the kernel in RAM for any viruses or unauthorized changes. "Hydra's embedded kernel is one aspect that makes Hydra so revolutionary," Bodacion's documentation claims. "Hydra constantly checks its small kernel for corruption, making Hydra immune to viruses." Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random growth of living things -- to generate series of pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker be able to discern a pattern and predict the next number, Uner added." http://hydra.hellug.gr/download.html Also has anyone honeypotted, -netted Plan 9 (yet)? http://www.honeypots.net/ http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1506/ Alllll those big words! I've been gone awhile and am trying to catch up. I'm actively(?!) putting off the gauntlet of hardening my sacrificial (Unix) Gnu(g)oat. Many thanks, ===== Boojum __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:21:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:21:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8788 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8784 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:21:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56E0F19ABD; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 312C719AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h553K30l004288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:20:03 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h553K3j6028420 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:20:03 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some #s In-Reply-To: <3EDE62B4.5020106@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:20:03 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > Ron, can you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why a CPU should > reboot and foggy on when you deem a job 'over'. need to reboot: all jobs leave state on a machine in one form or another. 'over': user-defined Which means: after a job is over, state can be left behind. Depending on the context this can be "bad". I had a long writeup here on things that can happen and what you need to do but I'm going to leave it at 'sometimes you need to reboot after a job is over' :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:21:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:21:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8798 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8794 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:21:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:21:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CB0819AC6; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8689B19A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09040 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h553KG516675 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306050320.h553KG516675@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:24:54 CDT." <3EDE8DD6.6060101@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:20:16 -0400 > >Memory leakage, if all the memory isn't written to a known state then in > >some environments a serious security risk may be opened. Swap is another > >well known example. > > Rebooting doesn't eradicate that vulnerability. It only obfuscates its > scope. Most problems that run in massively parallel configurations (as on `grid' style machines) don't swap; each individual job is sized to run in the available memory of the processor it's running on. Swapping is just too slow. I have no idea what Choate means by ``memory leakage.'' Most sytems have well defined semantics for returning memory to a ``known state'' after a process exits, and it's reasonable to assume that `jobs' come in units of processes. Perhaps there are some that don't, but considering that we're talking about Plan 9 here, that doesn't seem relevant. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:28:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:28:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9069 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:28:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9062 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:28:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:28:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F195E19AC5; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.199]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90C3619AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <217375-30656>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:26:42 -0400 Message-ID: <014a01c32b12$403ab1e0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0147_01C32B23.025B6660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] more rock 'n bowl trivia Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 05:26:25 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C32B23.025B6660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C32B23.025B6660 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="rock-n-bowl.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 479A619AC9; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D813819AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:33:51 -0700 I just installed Plan 9 on an ipaq. Both Booting101 and the wiki need to be updated. I bought my ipaq used and it appears to have been upgraded to Pocket PC 2002. Booting101 recommends osloader 1.3.0 and bootldr 0000-2.14.8. None of the compaq nor handheld web nor ftp sites have osloader-1.3.0 any more, though you can find it with google. None of osloader 1.3.0, 1.5.4 and 1.5.6 worked correctly, possibly due to the upgrade to Pocket PC 2002. In addition, wince's File Explorer refuses to show you file extensions and won't even let you change or eliminate them by renaming, so creating a copy of bootldr called exactly "\bootldr" required creating such a file on a Windows PC and using ActiveSync to copy it across to the ipaq. Running osloader 1.3.0 and selecting "Run" produced the complaint "comparison error". Once I got osloader 1.3.0 to load bootldr 0000-2.14.8 (by selecting "Run after loading from file"), the screen blanked but there was no boot loader talking on the serial port. I performed a paper-clip reset and, after assurances from nemo that it was probably safe, flashed bootldr 0000-2.14.8 using bootblaster 1.18 (select "Program"). This was quite painless and didn't require the use of xmodem. I then held the "joybutton"'s center and did another paper-clip reset. I got the penguin menu and selected "serial bootldr console", typed return, and got "boot>". The first 3 partitions were already correctly defined; I defined the last 3 and loaded the kernel and paqdisk via xmodem, reset the ipaq and Plan 9 came up through the penguin menu. (Be careful here: the backspace and delete keys are adjacent on the wee keyboard and it's much too easy to hit delete instead of backspace, especially if you haven't calibrated the screen dead-on.) Suspend and resume seem to work. I've put copies of the relevant boot loaders and an updated version of Booting101 at www.collyer.net/who/geoff/9/bitsy/ so that others can find them easily. Is anybody working on making the Targus Stowaway collapsible keyboard work on the ipaq? It would sure be easier than trying to hit the right keys on the wee keyboard at the bottom of the screen. What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? I found Plan 9 on the bitsy to be less robust than I'd expected. Running mfs and then acme locally crashed it, as did running mfs and aux/timesync locally. When it crashes, I get no messages, just the penguin (`you lose, back to Linux', I guess). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 12:59:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 12:59:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10162 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 12:59:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10158 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 12:59:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 12:59:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D19C819AC8; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5744619AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Jun 4 23:58:42 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Wed Jun 4 23:58:39 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <84b315903b65e419d3f5873b08fc60e0@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] usenix says Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:58:49 -0400 > Exhibits Only passes are free and entitle you to attend the keynote, > evening BOFs, and exhibits. So maybe you don't need motorcycles after all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 13:32:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 13:32:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11772 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11768 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 13:32:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A07F19AB4; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E32619A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h554Vt0l012194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h554Vtj6030388 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] ports ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:31:55 -0600 (MDT) I noticed somebody asking about the MIPS and SPARC ports. Hey, you want to do a port, do something interesting like the K8 ... AMD is flooding the world with docs on all the internals, and they're being friendly. It's really amazing how open they are being. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 14:00:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 14:00:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12800 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 14:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12794 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 14:00:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 14:00:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E9C719A2D; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 01:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66AE819A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0C23766B28; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:59:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... Message-ID: <20030605045955.GC73958@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:59:55 -0700 Peter Wemm of Yahoo! has been working on the FreeBSD port of amd64. It'd be a fun project, if I could get my hands on the hardware. :) When, recently, was someone talking about MIPS and SPARC ports? Porting to a 64-bit architecture, while not pointless, seems not as exciting, since Plan 9 cannot currently use the the more interesting capabilities a 64-bit processor provides. And from the sounds of it, it is non-trivial to make Plan 9 64-bit. I remember something being said about the reliance on pointers being 32-bits. Please correct me if I am mistaken; this is completely from memory. On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 10:31:55PM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > > I noticed somebody asking about the MIPS and SPARC ports. > > Hey, you want to do a port, do something interesting like the K8 ... AMD > is flooding the world with docs on all the internals, and they're being > friendly. It's really amazing how open they are being. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 16:33:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 16:33:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19870 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 16:33:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19866 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 16:33:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 16:33:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF0C219AB9; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D9FA19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1ec9123d8949805be68aeafcf6b19ae7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:32:28 +0200 > I just installed Plan 9 on an ipaq. Both Booting101 and the wiki need > to be updated. I bought my ipaq used and it appears to have been Thanks a lot. > I've put copies of the relevant boot loaders and an updated version of > Booting101 at www.collyer.net/who/geoff/9/bitsy/ so that others can > find them easily. > Great. I'll copy your Booting101 to sources > Is anybody working on making the Targus Stowaway collapsible keyboard > work on the ipaq? It would sure be easier than trying to hit the > right keys on the wee keyboard at the bottom of the screen. Not that I know. > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? Mostly to listen music and some times for meetings. I run out of battery so often that I cannot use it as a PDA (use a Palm for that). > I found Plan 9 on the bitsy to be less robust than I'd expected. > Running mfs and then acme locally crashed it, as did running mfs and > aux/timesync locally. When it crashes, I get no messages, just the > penguin (`you lose, back to Linux', I guess). I couldnt reproduce this. Did you recompile the 5[acl] set and all the libraries and commands for the arm after that. Acme crashed for me before I did that (I really mean acme, and not the kernel). Did you have the bitsy on the serial line while crashed? Was there any message in the serial console? The print for the console is disabled to avoid cluttering the display, messages go to the serial line instead. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 16:42:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 16:42:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20229 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 16:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20225 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 16:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 16:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B39419AA1; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9AAC19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4fcdd723c7a1b188b50428b7faf536d4@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <1ec9123d8949805be68aeafcf6b19ae7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:41:48 -0700 I pulled, then rebuilt /*/bin/5[acl] and then the whole /arm tree on May 19th. Has anything significant changed since then? I hadn't had the bitsy connected to the serial line when the bitsy crashed; I'll try that. Thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 16:47:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 16:47:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20455 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 16:47:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20451 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 16:47:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 16:47:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C8D719AC3; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACDDD199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4cdcf3f74f3876a12373a723b91ec3c9@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <4fcdd723c7a1b188b50428b7faf536d4@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:46:02 +0200 > I pulled, then rebuilt /*/bin/5[acl] and then the whole /arm tree on > May 19th. Has anything significant changed since then? I'm not sure, but I think my paqfs crashed after that date; All I did to fix the problem was to recompile it. I'd just recompile if only for safety. Perhaps it was before May 19th, but I just dont remember; sorry. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 20:29:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 20:29:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26844 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 20:29:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26840 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 20:29:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 20:29:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEBD919AC1; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46534199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h55BX8Z16118 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:33:08 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306050320.h553KG516675@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:33:08 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I have no idea what Choate means by ``memory leakage.'' > Most sytems have well defined semantics for returning memory to a > ``known state'' after a process exits, And Unix and Microsoft (among many others) are known not to do that well. Not to mention the many times programmers just don't do 'the right thing'. Some time reading security literature about such holes will be quite elucidating. Try starting with "Applied Cryptography". -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:14:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:14:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29335 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:14:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29331 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:14:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:14:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ABE519AC0; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1101919A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-Reply-To: <1ec9123d8949805be68aeafcf6b19ae7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:13:52 -0400 > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? I find they make excellent paper weights. They turned out less useful than I had hoped (at least to me). I had originally wanted to use one as a replacement to carrying a PC. Unfortunately, the input slows me down way too much for that and the screen, even with small fonts, is pretty tight. The foldable keyboard would probably help. I ordered one and it never came. With a wavelan, it does make a nice remote control when giving presentations. Just plug a projector into a PC, then import the keyboard and mouse from the bitsy, then start page, rio, or whatever. There should be more possiblities there. It makes a usable voice communications device. With a little more support it could be an IP telephone. Someone would have to do all the hard stuff to make it compatible with RTP/H323/SIP whatever. If you walk around wearing headphones and singing to yourself, then it makes an OK replacement for an walkman. At least it makes you look like you're listening to something rather than just crazy. A bit pricey for that unless you get one off of ebay. If we had a web broswer that actually worked it would be much more usable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:19:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:19:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29405 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:19:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29401 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:19:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:19:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88F1C19ACE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B16219A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... In-Reply-To: <20030605045955.GC73958@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:18:21 -0400 It would be work to move to 64 bit pointers. Not infinite though. The reliance is more on ulong and pointer being the same size. If they're both 64 bits, it'll be pretty easy. The truly hard part is changing the compiler and debugging it afterwards. If you have to simultaneously rewrite a compiler and do a port, its much easier to have multiple people. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:39:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:39:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29750 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:39:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29746 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:39:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:39:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1523419ACB; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D1E119A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Dcs5s005634 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:38:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Dcql2003428 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:38:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h55Dcr925505 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:38:53 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200306051338.h55Dcr925505@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:13:52 -0400." <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:38:53 +0200 > > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? > > I find they make excellent paper weights. agreed. :-) (although mine is usually not even used that way, mostly it just doesn't leave the bag I transport between home and office) > Unfortunately, the input slows me down I've been wondering how much better the zyrix is in the respect (if I recall the name correctly), I'm referring to a linux pda with a built-in keyboard, that is normally hidden until you slide open the pda. In principle, the bitsy is much more extensible, but if that is something really used in practice? With a wavelan I've been using it as a small ``testing'' and (e.g. network) monitorin device. It's a nice little terminal to bring to the machine room several floors down, when I'm changing (rebooting) the fs and cpu/auth server (cs?), just to check that things are up and running, before walking upstairs. Before I had the bitsy, I occasionally brought with me a heavier, bigger, laptop. > If we had a web broswer that actually worked it would be much > more usable. I've occasionally used it with vnc to unix, to read email via mh and even run mozilla, with the tiniest font I could find. Even then, indeed, the screen is rather small. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 22:47:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 22:47:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29866 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 22:47:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29862 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 22:47:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 22:47:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59C1319ABC; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from MIMESWEEPER.pigroup.co.uk (unknown [194.203.134.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B35651998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eagle.pigroup.co.uk (unverified) by MIMESWEEPER.pigroup.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.1) with ESMTP id for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:46:52 +0100 Received: by eagle.pigroup.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:48:14 +0100 Message-ID: From: Stephen Parker To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] ipaq installation changes MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:48:12 +0100 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have to (embarrassingly) admit that I've gone back to wince on mine, after having a paperweight powered by linux, plan9, and inferno. At least with wince its a working address book. stephen (One day I'm still hoping to get bluetooth working with inferno on it, but not soon.) ------_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Message-ID: <200306051338.h55Dcr925505@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> From: Axel Belinfante Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:38:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? > > I find they make excellent paper weights. agreed. :-) (although mine is usually not even used that way, mostly it just doesn't leave the bag I transport between home and office) > Unfortunately, the input slows me down I've been wondering how much better the zyrix is in the respect (if I recall the name correctly), I'm referring to a linux pda with a built-in keyboard, that is normally hidden until you slide open the pda. In principle, the bitsy is much more extensible, but if that is something really used in practice? With a wavelan I've been using it as a small ``testing'' and (e.g. network) monitorin device. It's a nice little terminal to bring to the machine room several floors down, when I'm changing (rebooting) the fs and cpu/auth server (cs?), just to check that things are up and running, before walking upstairs. Before I had the bitsy, I occasionally brought with me a heavier, bigger, laptop. > If we had a web broswer that actually worked it would be much > more usable. I've occasionally used it with vnc to unix, to read email via mh and even run mozilla, with the tiniest font I could find. Even then, indeed, the screen is rather small. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C32B69.1B30CF90-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Jun 5 23:12:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Jun 5 23:12:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30295 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Jun 2003 23:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30291 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 23:12:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 23:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 841B31998C; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 589B119AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <653b24641e10dd1f52534fa91ee8f76a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:11:09 -0400 if we had a need and the hardware we'd port to the k8. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 00:30:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 00:30:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31583 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 00:30:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31578 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 00:30:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 00:30:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89151199B7; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85665199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B90C3643F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:29:26 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > I noticed somebody asking about the MIPS and SPARC ports. > > Hey, you want to do a port, do something interesting like the K8 ... It's funny the dichotomy about the porting issue. Some people like/want/need to use new hardware and others like/want/need to resuscitate older hardware. Linux has this legacy hardware support for which (I think) they do an increasingly poorer job of supporting (NetBSD probably does a better job of continuing support). So, for everybody, recent hardware tends to get decent support for a while, then a kind of "recovery support" where the popular items get fixed when they break under version x, then you get the trailing stuff where popular hardware from five generations ago is free or nearly free and there's a request or push for new support for legacy hardware. Plan 9 always intrigued me with its thin workstation concept, where the workstation can be so-so to barely bearable but always supported by decent (or exceptional) file/cpu servers. So, I suppose I'm just rambling, but my vote is equally split between SPARC and K8. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 01:07:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 01:07:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32303 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 01:07:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32299 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 01:07:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 01:07:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75E6E19AD2; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cleese.nas.com (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64BDD19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cleese.nas.com [198.182.207.3]) by cleese.nas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94C536537 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Johnson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-Reply-To: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > > What do you other folks with bitsies do with them? > I find they make excellent paper weights. They turned out less [...] > With a wavelan, it does make a nice remote [...] > It makes a usable voice communications device. With a little > more support it could be an IP telephone. Someone would have I always thought that if I shelled out the money, I'd attempt to utilize one as a PARCTab on steroids: http://sandbox.parc.xerox.com/parctab/ I think the big thing is to get away from the idea of using it as a portable terminal and drag it in some new direction. Stream audio from all of the conference rooms and have it hop from room to room as you walk through the building. Email/voicemail/pager/fax redirection, at work and at home. I've also thought that with the limited display and input, having an IRC infobot as an agent would be a fun interface to experiment with. Or maybe even Googlism ( http://googlism.com ) culling information from your personal files. Rather than spending your time looking for a specific piece of information in a specific application or database and dealing with the input misery, you just throw out a keyword and skim all the possible responses. Maybe a menu of recent queries. -Jack From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 01:37:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 01:37:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32695 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 01:37:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32691 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 01:37:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 01:37:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BAB319A0D; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from minster.cs.york.ac.uk (minster.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F2BD19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc118 ([144.32.41.119] helo=pc118.cs.york.ac.uk ident=1530) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19Nxg9-0005nq-00; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:33:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: John Murdie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: john@cs.york.ac.uk In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1054830809.1365.50.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *19Nxg9-0005nq-00*qKd/NB0ZgRE* Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 05 Jun 2003 17:33:29 +0100 On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 17:06, Jack Johnson wrote: > I always thought that if I shelled out the money, I'd attempt to utilize > one as a PARCTab on steroids: > > http://sandbox.parc.xerox.com/parctab/ > ... > -Jack Not long to wait now for the Oqo (http://www.oqo.com/), if you want a real PC you can hold in your hand - release date September 2003. (Yes, I know of the Antelope, Tiqit, Zaurii etc and, yes, the lack of a keyboard or mouse is actually an advantage - think Intel's portable personal server - http://www.intel.com/research/exploratory/personal_server.htm). Perhaps the OQO isn't vapourware, after all! (See Wired http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,57023-2,00.html). There's a nice picture of an OQO prototype at http://www.danionics.com/sw1226.asp. John A. Murdie Department of Computer Science University of York From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 03:34:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 03:34:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1703 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1699 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3593E19A8B; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDEAC19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <79db0b44d214dd202bc8729693d3f054@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1054830809.1365.50.camel@pc118> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] handheld computers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:36:39 +0100 my problem with all the devices i've seen is battery life and robustness. my old sharp personal organiser lasts for >8months without changing the batteries, and it's been through hell without a murmur (it's over 8 years old now and only a few dead pixels to show for it). it seems a pity that these kinds of characteristics seem inevitable casualties of the progress in other areas. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 03:36:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 03:36:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1730 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 03:36:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1726 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 03:36:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:36:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D40F19AD0; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D6FC19AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] leaks? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:35:02 +0200 I've been monitoring the memory usage in our file server and it seems to steadily increase. This script shows the growing memory usage from our last reboot (but it seems to keep on growing according to the records for other periods of (up)time). The numbers have been collected by cron at 3am, when there's almost no system activity. #!/bin/rc # w swapstats cat $0 | grep '^[0-9]' | awk -F/ '{print $1}' | graph -a | plot exit '' 53150/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 53350/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 53857/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54082/110163 memory 0/160000 swap 54583/110163 memory 0/160000 swap A ps reveals that it might be both venti and fossil the ones eating memory. For example, these are fossil and venti initially: elf 34 0:00 0:00 11872K Rendez venti elf 41 0:00 0:00 190132K Rendez fossil [cons] these are the numbers after four days: elf 34 0:00 0:00 12384K Rendez venti elf 41 0:00 0:00 190480K Rendez fossil [cons] Does this happen at other sites? It's not a big deal, but might be of concern if we want to leave the machine unattended for a long period of time. I didnt try leak w/ them (anyone did?) thanks a lot PS: BTW, both venti and fossil work just great and rock solid here. We had no problem at all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 03:40:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 03:40:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1752 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 03:40:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1748 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 03:40:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5F1B19ADA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2311C19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] handheld computers From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <79db0b44d214dd202bc8729693d3f054@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:39:33 +0200 > it seems a pity that these kinds of characteristics seem inevitable > casualties of the progress in other areas. The problem is that even if you dont use the xtra features, battery is still scarce. I tried the ipaq w/o using light, sound, nor any other fancy feature. The battery w/ Plan 9 takes a single day to expire for me. Didn't try w/ Windows, but I wouldnt say it would last once week. The downsized palm zire I bought for agenda and the like takes like several weeks to get below 100% of battery. That's why my bitsy is now a desktop system, sic. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:13:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:13:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4209 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4205 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:13:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EFBE19AD5; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E101A1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h55MCKv2055885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:12:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <16e35360c3dcabe9826a019f1e209155@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:12:19 -0600 If any of you have run both Plan9 and Inferno on the iPaq I would be interested in hearing how you think they compare. I'm going to have to make a decision in a week or so about which one to install. Right now I'm leaning towards Inferno, primarily because of charon. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:19:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:19:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4308 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:19:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4304 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:19:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:19:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E5B719A9C; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0930619A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38a96cd8a9baff61ea77aae57acaba78@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200306051338.h55Dcr925505@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:18:04 -0700 The zaurus keyboard is too small to be of use to a touch-typist, but it is better than the wee 9bitsy keyboard. I had hoped to use my bitsy instead of a laptop and for ssh, mail and the odd grep, it's probably going to be okay, modulo the input issue. Web browsing is obviously not really going to work well. (I suppose one could port Inferno to Plan 9 on the bitsy. I'd rather not run native Inferno because I want 9p [or at least cpu] access to my files. Even so, the screen limitations make browsing painful; I tried it under WinCE.) I think I'm going to try to get the Targus keyboard to work. What's the non-power connector on the bottom of the bitsy that connects to the serial or usb cradle? Is it just a serial port? I suppose one would have to disable the use of the serial port as a serial console first. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:38:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:38:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4547 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4542 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:38:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E00319ACA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95013199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08636 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h55Mbm521958 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306052237.h55Mbm521958@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:18:04 PDT." <38a96cd8a9baff61ea77aae57acaba78@collyer.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:37:48 -0400 I worked on the Targus keyboard a good long while ago. I meant to finish getting it working, but the bitsy has been turned off in a box for a very long time, so the targus hasn't been used. I'll send you the code I wrote a little later. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4590 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4586 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:42:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:42:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C02D619A99; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A8E819A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h55Mf9521982 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306052241.h55Mf9521982@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:33:08 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:41:08 -0400 Jim Choate writes: > > Most sytems have well defined semantics for returning memory to a > > ``known state'' after a process exits, > > And Unix and Microsoft (among many others) are known not to do that well. Which, as I stated, is irrelevant since we're talking about Plan 9. > Not to mention the many times programmers just don't do 'the right thing'. Which programmers are those? The OS programmers, or the application programmers? My whole point was that what the application programmers did was irrelevant. > Some time reading security literature about such holes will be quite > elucidating. Try starting with "Applied Cryptography". You know, I don't know why you think you're such an expert on everything. Some time spent reading a book on basic English grammar and spelling might be quite elucidating. Try starting with ``Dick and Jane.'' - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 07:57:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 07:57:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4791 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 07:57:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4787 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 07:57:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 07:57:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 236D619AE0; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice02.Princeton.EDU [128.112.130.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB1F19AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Mu7SJ017229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Mu2ZD013806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EDFCA81.3000706@Princeton.EDU> From: Martin Harriss User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes References: <38a96cd8a9baff61ea77aae57acaba78@collyer.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:56:01 -0400 Geoff Collyer wrote: > ... > I think I'm going to try to get the Targus keyboard to work. What's > the non-power connector on the bottom of the bitsy that connects to > the serial or usb cradle? Is it just a serial port? I suppose one > would have to disable the use of the serial port as a serial console > first. > It's serial and USB. Somwhere (handhelds.org?) I found the pin out. If it would help I can send it to you. Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 08:02:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 08:02:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4917 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 08:02:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4913 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 08:02:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:02:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90D1719AE2; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1381A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h55N64L21560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:05 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306052241.h55Mf9521982@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:04 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Which, as I stated, is irrelevant since we're talking about Plan 9. Which has yet to go through a professional level vetting. About the best that can be said for it was what was published in "Maximum Security". > Which programmers are those? The OS programmers, or the application > programmers? My whole point was that what the application programmers > did was irrelevant. Really? Talk to some crypto programmers some time. I think they'd disagree with you a great deal on that one. The reality is that memory leakage via apps -is- a major concern for real world security issues. OS'es don't have the best record in that regard either. I'd suggest arXiv or SiteSeer as a start. You can also take a look at the NSA version of Linux. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 08:23:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 08:23:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5258 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 08:23:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5254 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 08:23:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:23:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2E7D19A40; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CE3519AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy panics Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:22:01 -0700 Okay, life is a little better. I set up a local lib/profile and got rid of the scribble area, so the wee keyboard is wider. I'm going to comment-out the increfp/decrefp prints in the bitsy kernel. I reproduced the acme and timesync panics and this time captured the (wonderfully garbled) serial console output, enclosed below. acme panic: --- kernel fault: type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c r0 0x00000001 r1 0xc0585c48 r2 0xc0585c48 r3 0x00000001 r4 0x51494f42 r5 0xc07b0f08 r6 0x00000037 r7 0x6c000a74 r8 0x64696375 r9 0x6e617361 r10 0x6c000873 r11 0x312e7273 r12 0xc009b5c4 rkernel fault: type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c r0 0x00000001 r1 0xc05827c8 r2 0xc05827c8 r3 0x00000001 r4 0x51494f42 r5 0xc07b0fc8 r6 0xc06a1fb1 r7 0xc07b1043 r8 0x00000000 r9 0x00000000 r10 0x00000000 r11 0x000dbba0 r12 0xc009b5c4 rpanic: fault: kernel accessing 0x19 panic: faktrace /kernel/path c000b034 c0779354 c003de58 ult: kec0779300=c000b030 rnel accessc077930c=c0036f74 ing 0x1c0779330=c0037058 9 c0779348=c0037228 c077934c=c000b030 c0779350=c003722c c0779358=c0009e60 c077939c=c008f488 c07793b4=c0090474 c07793b8=c006ed7c c07793c0=c006ed0c c07793c4=c0090498 c07793cc=c006f92c c07793d0=c0090998 c07793d4=c006f914 c07793e8=c0071e28 c07793f8=c002a014 c077940c=c008edbc c0779410=c0062354 c0779414=c008f048 c0779420=c008f00c c0779428=c008f510 c0779430=c008f488 c0779448=c006b468 c077944c=c006ed7c c077945c=c0009e28 c0779460=c006f92c c0779478=c000a200 c077948c=c002a014 c07794a4=c0062354 c07794b0=c0065a80 c07794b4=c0061c34 c07794e0=c0062b80 c07794f8=c00718f8 c07794fc=c00718d4 c0779508=c00718d4 c0779510=c00624b4 c0779514=c00082ac c0779534=c0061494 c0779540=c0062b90 c0779550=c0064b94 c0779554=c0064b9c c0779564=c0065a80 c0779568=c0065a80 c0779570=c008ee2c c0779588=c008f048 c0779594=c008f00c c077959c=c009093c c07795a8=c0090850 c07795bc=c0090c9c c0779608=c0072c84 c0779618=c0072c84 c077961c=c0072c94 c0779624=c002a18c c077962c=c002a130 c0779630=c0073510 c0779634=c008f510 c0779640=c002a534 c0779654=c002a4a0 c07796a8=c0031a30 c07796b0=c001f354 c07796cc=c00733e4 c07796d8=c0073560 c07796dc=c001bbfc c07796e0=c0073510 c07796e8=c001ac9c c07796f4=c001acc4 c0779700=c001f230 c0779710=c001a938 c0779754=c00733e4 c0779784=c0073510 it's a wonderful day to die --- aux/timesync panic: --- kernel fault: type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c r0 0x00000001 r1 0xc0580d88 r2 0xc0580d88 r3 0x00000001 r4 0x51494f42 r5 0xc077c408 r6 0x0000001a r7 0xc00e9a50 r8 0xc00e9a70 r9 0xc067c1c8 r10 0x00000000 r11 0xfffffff8 r12 0xc009b5c4 rpanic: fault: kernel accessing 0x19 panic: faktrace /kernel/path c000b034 c075fca4 c003de58 ult: kec075fc50=c000b030 rnel acc075fc5c=c0036f74 cessingc075fc80=c0037058 0x19 c075fc98=c0037228 c075fc9c=c000b030 c075fca0=c003722c c075fca8=c0009e60 c075fcf8=c0065cfc c075fd04=c0062698 c075fd0c=c0066198 c075fd18=c00626cc c075fd24=c0064adc c075fd38=c0064ae4 c075fd54=c007367c c075fd5c=c0073650 c075fd68=c0073650 c075fd70=c002a554 c075fd98=c006b468 c075fdac=c0009e28 c075fdc8=c000a200 c075fde8=c00733e4 c075fdec=c001b9ac c075fdf4=c0073560 c075fdfc=c0073510 c075fe00=c00721b4 c075fe04=c001ac9c c075fe0c=c0065a80 c075fe10=c0065a80 c075fe1c=c001f230 c075fe50=c0090498 c075fe64=c00082ac c075fe84=c006f6e4 c075fe8c=c006f5d8 c075fe90=c0073560 c075fea0=c0072414 c075fea4=c0073560 c075fea8=c007278c c075feac=c0073510 c075feb4=c0065a80 c075feb8=c0073510 c075febc=c0065a80 c075fec0=c008edbc c075fec8=c008f048 c075fed4=c008f00c c075fedc=c008f510 c075fee4=c008f488 c075fee8=c008f15c c075fefc=c0090474 c075ff0c=c0090498 c075ff18=c0090998 c075ff58=c0072c84 c075ff68=c0072c84 c075ff6c=c0072c94 c075ff74=c0072fa0 c075ff7c=c0072ed4 c075ff84=c0072ed4 c075ff90=c004d71c c075ffc8=c00155c4 c075ffe4=c0014a00 c075fff4=c0067f40 c075fffc=c006a910 c0760010=c0014950 c0760018=c001488c c0760044=c0069ab8 c0760058=c0065cfc c076006c=c00697f8 c0760090=c0069a50 c07600a0=c0076680 c07600cc=c00154dc c07600d4=c001529c c0760110=c0067c48 c0760118=c0067c2c c076011c=c00082e4 c0760140=c0076b88 c0760148=c0076b34 c0760150=c006be50 c076017c=c007665c c07601a8=c0008244 it's a wonderful day to die --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 08:26:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 08:26:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5284 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 08:26:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5280 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 08:26:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:26:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A99D19AE9; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C35719AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <496858d56df393bfade5596490e46d0f@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:16:03 +0100 >>I think the big thing is to get away from the idea of using it as a >>portable terminal and drag it in some new direction. yes, i think that's right. having done that you might perhaps suddenly realise that some of the old things can be re-imported (i'm mainly thinking of cpu and web browsing here) but in a different and more useful form (given the form factor) having made the change of mental viewpoint. it is a curious device: reasonably nice screen (but small space), non-trivial integer CPU power (but what could you crunch), touch screen, buttons, flash storage, USB, wireless, ... one of my practical problems with the ipaq is that the device components change fast enough that even people working for the manufacturer can't quite keep up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:22:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:22:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7035 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:22:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7031 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:22:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:22:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 911C419AEA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20ABC19AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33ce554b6927ec6c315f86c7933e034d@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy panics From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:21:34 -0700 The pc in both panics appears to be in freeb(). cpu% acid /arm/s9bitsy /arm/s9bitsy:ARM plan 9 boot image /sys/lib/acid/port /sys/lib/acid/arm acid: src(0xc006611c) /sys/src/9/port/allocb.c:116 111 112 /* 113 * drivers which perform non cache coherent DMA manage their own buffer 114 * pool of uncached buffers and provide their own free routine. 115 */ >116 if(b->free) { 117 b->free(b); 118 return; 119 } 120 if(b->flag & BINTR) { 121 ilock(&ialloc); acid: From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:26:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:26:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7230 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:26:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7226 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:26:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:26:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DF9019AD8; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2FF419AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <13fe0dc8b3e09c208c83d277b439089b@plan9.bell-labs.com> quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:25:13 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We don't zero pages till we're going to give them to another process. If you want to feel safe after doing something really secret, I'ld recommend power cycling at the least. Choate is completely right here. --upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 19:02:19 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 19:02:16 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62AC119ADE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1381A19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h55N64L21560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:05 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306052241.h55Mf9521982@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:06:04 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Which, as I stated, is irrelevant since we're talking about Plan 9. Which has yet to go through a professional level vetting. About the best that can be said for it was what was published in "Maximum Security". > Which programmers are those? The OS programmers, or the application > programmers? My whole point was that what the application programmers > did was irrelevant. Really? Talk to some crypto programmers some time. I think they'd disagree with you a great deal on that one. The reality is that memory leakage via apps -is- a major concern for real world security issues. OS'es don't have the best record in that regard either. I'd suggest arXiv or SiteSeer as a start. You can also take a look at the NSA version of Linux. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-akhlountcvhidafriiklndolso-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:52:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:52:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8485 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:52:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8481 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:52:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 658A219AEE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49E6419ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h560mBNx024841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:48:11 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h560mB0N024837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:48:11 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] drawterm strangeness Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:48:11 -0600 (MDT) I'm observing some strangeness in drawterm on Linux. I know it's not supported at all, but I'd like to take this out in the open, just in case somebody can think of an off-hand solution. It has to do with updating the image, but I'm not sure whether it's not related to Russ Cox' latency observation from few weeks ago: When displaying graphics-heavy programs under drawterm-linux I observe that the screen updates in bursts occuring exactly one second one after another. For example, dragging a new window (especially enlarging it rapidly) would result in the screen updating only a single, or at most two times per second. When running the same few draw()-intensive programs I measured the connection utilization to peak at 20mbit/s (100mbit link). Starting new programs to separate the load between them did not result in any increase in throughput to the linux box. The load on the server was not max-ed out, but the ethernet counters in 'stats' were. On the other hand an scp of a very large file resulted in transfer speeds of 97mbit/s (as measured on the Linux side). No writing or reading from disk was involved (writing same file to kfs instead of /dev/null or ramfs caused the transfer speed to drop down to 10-20mbit/s, but that's not an issue). I did the same test with Plan 9 running under vmware of the exact same hardware and observed the same behaviour. I do not observe this behaviour when connecting from a plan9 terminal or from the same vmware session. The reason I'm having trouble with this is that the brand spanking new cpu server is hardly usable with drawterm -- especially when heavy editing is involved.. thanx for any help with this: andrey ps: one suggestion I heard was to blame nagel's algorithm for this, but the 9fans archives suggest that plan9 doesn't do nagel at all... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 09:55:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 09:55:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8665 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 09:55:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8661 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 09:55:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 09:55:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3DAA19AF6; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C25E919A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:54:15 -0700 The bitsy keyboard can't even keep up with my tapping. Is bitsy/keyboard really sending "top\n" to rio and sleeping for 100ms on failure, in a loop, for every button hit on the keyboard? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:04:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:04:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9321 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:04:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9314 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:04:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:04:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35C9F19AF3; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1080219A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5613kv2056851 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:03:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3EDFCA81.3000706@Princeton.EDU> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:03:45 -0600 On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 04:56 PM, Martin Harriss wrote: > It's serial and USB. Somwhere (handhelds.org?) I found the pin out. > If it would help I can send it to you. Please put this information on the Wiki. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:09:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:09:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9621 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:09:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9617 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:09:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:09:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA78C19AFA; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F60C19ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28552 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h5618x522739 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:25:13 EDT." <13fe0dc8b3e09c208c83d277b439089b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:08:59 -0400 > We don't zero pages till we're going to give them to another process. > If you want to feel safe after doing something really secret, I'ld recommend > power cycling at the least. So, my factotum isn't safe if it exits? Hmm.... > Choate is completely right here. Perhaps by accident. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10264 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:20:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10260 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:20:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:20:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E02619A63; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 072C919ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:19:25 -0400 The memory is cleaned before another process gets it but that could be too late in the presence of bugs. It wouldn't be too hard to zero them immediately, I probably should. Someone will notice that things get slower... Also, when you reboot your machine, with ctl-alt-del, factotum's pages are still sitting in memory somewhere. Someone can load their own kernel and look at the data. I should also change ctl-alt-del to zero out process memory before bringing the system down. Then there are still crashes... Even with all that, I'ld be happier if the BIOS or boot ROM zeroed all memory. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:23:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:23:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10380 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:23:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10376 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:23:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:23:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D89C19AFE; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFDAC19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <217117-19748>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:21:38 -0400 Message-ID: <006e01c32bc9$fa5e22c0$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 03:21:37 +0200 > So, my factotum isn't safe if it exits? Hmm.... well when i wrote a pop client daemon on lunix i hid the password in a pipe, that way it wouldn't turn up in a core dump [ok, there was a small window]. but, yeah, for a buncha high security applications you don't want the data on disk and you wanna blow its memory when they thing exits. security is always a trade off between what you want to protect and how much you wanna pay. obviously, a bunch of you know that ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:24:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:24:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10427 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:24:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10422 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:24:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:24:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C62419B01; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (adsl-63-192-14-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D051E19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87d70c303e9937a31df0d42a47e708c9@collyer.net> From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:23:57 -0700 [I sent this earlier but it doesn't seem to have gone through.] The bitsy keyboard can't even keep up with my tapping. Is bitsy/keyboard really sending "top\n" to rio and sleeping for 100ms on failure, in a loop, for every button hit on the keyboard? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 10:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 10:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11112 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 10:42:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11108 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 10:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22AC119B05; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice01.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1BB519AF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.148]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561f4Vt003214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561f3gI014501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EDFF12F.3060002@Princeton.EDU> From: Martin Harriss User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ipaq installation changes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:41:03 -0400 Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 04:56 PM, Martin Harriss wrote: > >> It's serial and USB. Somwhere (handhelds.org?) I found the pin out. >> If it would help I can send it to you. > > > Please put this information on the Wiki. > > --lyndon > To avoid running afoul of any possible copyright issues, I put a link to the IPAQ hardware info on the IPAQ page in the Wiki. The cradle pin-out info is near the bottom. Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 11:25:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 11:25:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13350 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 11:25:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13346 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 11:25:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 11:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F6E919B0B; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74E3B19AD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 22:24:27 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Thu Jun 5 22:24:24 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200306060108.h5618x522739@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:24:37 -0400 >> Choate is completely right here. > > Perhaps by accident. You know, he's been reasonable recently. You're the one egging him on. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 11:41:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 11:41:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14291 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 11:41:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14287 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 11:41:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 11:41:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9892819B0F; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17D8419B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <230818-16143>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:39:47 -0400 Message-ID: <00b001c32bd4$e4bc1b60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <87d70c303e9937a31df0d42a47e708c9@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:39:45 +0200 it appalls me that i can out-type and out-mouse a 400Mhz Pentium II From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:01:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:01:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15314 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:01:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15310 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:01:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:01:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D4B019A89; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8996B19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:00:13 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE01177.1020503@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:58:47 -0500 > > >Also, when you reboot your machine, with ctl-alt-del, factotum's pages >are still sitting in memory somewhere. Someone can load their own kernel >and look at the data. I should also change ctl-alt-del to zero out process >memory before bringing the system down. Then there are still crashes... > This was my original point. Rebooting does nothing but obfuscate the issue to a slight extent. Memory leaks are a huge problem, but, can't be evaded by measures that dont cleanse memory in some fashion. As I'm sure we all know here, memory zero'd is pointless in situations where the physical hard- ware can be accessed (even remotely through the kernel or driver bugs, etc). With some slick I/O techniques, nulled memory can still be read for resonating patterns. The only real solution in secure clusters (or other situations) is to force the supervisor code to perform a NSA trusted random-pattern cleanse, or, something more paranoid. But, as is stated above, that doesn't eradicate the problem of crashes. I have some solutions I'm looking at in Autumn, but, the papers wont be out for a while. Though, it probably isn't anything the NIPR/NSA spooks haven't already done ;) Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:07:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:07:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15768 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:07:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15764 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:07:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:07:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0042719B12; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B642B19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:06:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE012E3.80108@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <3EE01177.1020503@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:04:51 -0500 > > >> Also, when you reboot your machine, with ctl-alt-del, factotum's pages >> are still sitting in memory somewhere. Someone can load their own >> kernel >> and look at the data. I should also change ctl-alt-del to zero out >> process >> memory before bringing the system down. Then there are still crashes... > Oh, I forgot to mention. Another thing is stale cluster connection hijacking. Just as in NFS, this tends to be a problem in cluster situations. Rebooting does a body good for this kind of issue, but, it sure as hell isn't the best answer. The protocols should be more wary, IM(not-so-humble)O. Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:16:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:16:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16027 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:16:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16023 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:16:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:16:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3579219A96; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 904BB19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14753 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h563FM523287 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060315.h563FM523287@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:24:37 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:15:22 -0400 "Russ Cox" writes: > >> Choate is completely right here. > > > > Perhaps by accident. > > You know, he's been reasonable recently. Given his track record, I'm confident he'll shatter that record soon. > You're the one egging him on. Perhaps. Maybe I just don't like being told to go read books I read five years ago. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:19:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:19:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16123 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:19:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16119 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:19:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:19:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EBD819B19; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 69E6119B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:18:38 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE015C9.3000009@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <200306060315.h563FM523287@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:17:13 -0500 > > >Maybe I just don't like being told to go read books I read >five years ago. > If you already read them, then, let your knowledge and actions prove it :). Unnecessary aggression proves nothing and negates everything... "What do you care what other people think" - you know who Don > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:34:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:34:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16606 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16602 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:34:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 230CD19B1B; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A378719B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17039 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h563Xl523511 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060333.h563Xl523511@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:17:13 CDT." <3EE015C9.3000009@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:33:47 -0400 northern snowfall writes: > If you already read them, then, let your knowledge and actions > prove it :). Unnecessary aggression proves nothing and negates > everything... > > "What do you care what other people think" - you know who All right, all right, all right; I get the picture. I'll stop antagonizing Choate. What can I say? It's been a rough few days. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:42:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:42:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16966 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:42:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16942 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:42:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:42:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD01419B11; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (mailrelay2.lanl.gov [128.165.4.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB4D919A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h563fYHM028163 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h563fYj6019139 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:34 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: <3EE01177.1020503@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:41:34 -0600 (MDT) And, to add to the stew, you guys are all focusing on the 'is memory clean' issue, and there are more general issues involved here. So, back to the original issue, which is that sometimes you really do want to reboot after every app :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:48:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:48:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17179 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:48:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17175 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:48:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:48:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19D2B19B23; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 61CE019B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 03:47:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE01C76.4060601@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <200306060333.h563Xl523511@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:45:42 -0500 > > >All right, all right, all right; I get the picture. I'll stop antagonizing >Choate. What can I say? It's been a rough few days. > Well I'll raise a glass to that, Dan. Cheers to a better tomorrow, and many more to come. Don http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 12:52:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 12:52:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17373 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 12:52:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17369 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 12:52:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 12:52:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 471BE19B26; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl.valueweb.net [216.219.253.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CD7419B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.66.148.227]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557355-31776>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:51:30 -0400 Message-ID: <00ca01c32bde$e94ede60$e3944251@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200306060315.h563FM523287@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3EE015C9.3000009@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:51:28 +0200 > "What do you care what other people think" - you know who Feynman From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 14:47:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 14:47:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22392 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 14:47:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22385 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 14:47:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 14:47:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D53419B17; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1BCC199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04067 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h565k7524011 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306060546.h565k7524011@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:45:42 CDT." <3EE01C76.4060601@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 01:46:07 -0400 > Well I'll raise a glass to that, Dan. Cheers to a better tomorrow, and > many more to come. Thanks Don, that's very kind of you. > http://deadchildren.org/~north_ However, I have to say, that's a rather morbid domainname.... :-) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 15:25:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 15:25:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24780 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 15:25:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24773 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 15:25:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 15:25:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 992C719B2C; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 02:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CDB519A85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 02:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 02:24:38 EDT 2003 Received: from 205.170.1.68 ([205.170.1.68]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 02:24:35 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <599ac5bac00ad3dde089ea36e02bc81e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm strangeness From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 02:24:48 -0400 > ps: one suggestion I heard was to blame nagel's algorithm for this, but the > 9fans archives suggest that plan9 doesn't do nagel at all... yes but linux might be delaying the responses. make sure the devip-unix.c you are using says something about TCP_NODELAY. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 17:50:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 17:50:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30960 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 17:50:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30955 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 17:50:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 17:50:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F40AE19B2E; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CD53319A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 08:49:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE06357.4030904@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s References: <200306060546.h565k7524011@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 04:48:07 -0500 > > >>http://deadchildren.org/~north_ >> >However, I have to say, that's a rather morbid domainname.... :-) > Quite so, but with reason. It doesn't represent a somatic death , but rather the death of spirit. The Dead Children's Society is a charity organization that benefits people in my 'extended family' that have made choices which alienate them from their concept of family. Dead Children is a way of helping those that refuse to help themselves, but in a very covert way. It doesn't give hand-outs, but, creates situations for the target individual in which they are still given a choice to help themselves, or to not. I believe the only true charity is the charity that allows an individual to choose a more positive road. I do not believe in feeding a man for a day. The Blessed Children's Society, does not give hand-outs either. Rather, it gives opportunity of a different kind. Funds from the extended family is pooled in such a way as none of the donators may make a withdrawal. Individuals given donations are the youth of the extended family that prove their interest in the family to be true with hard work and play, either in their respective schooling or through independent study. Though, recipients still do not *know* about the donations. They just happen. All 'board' members of each society are silent members. We are somewhat modeled after the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation[1] and, to a lesser extent, the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation[2]; both of which, we believe, had a very solid hand in shaping (and possibly saving) both our youth and our future. Hopefully, with hard work and perseverance, we will make opportunities for the youth to come that shapes their future for the better, helping to perpetuate the cycle of strong family values and a universally equality conscious society. Don [1] John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation http://www.macfound.org [2] Charles Stewart Mott Foundation http://www.mott.org http://deadchildren.org/~north_ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 18:15:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 18:15:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31693 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31688 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 18:15:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A50D19B31; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B34E19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODGw-0002yH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Anthony Mandic Message-ID: <3EE02A6A.A775C807@hotmail.com> Organization: Mandic Consulting Pty. Ltd. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <87d70c303e9937a31df0d42a47e708c9@collyer.net>, <00b001c32bd4$e4bc1b60$e3944251@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy keyboard lag Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:12:27 GMT "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > it appalls me that i can out-type and out-mouse a 400Mhz Pentium II I fail to see what you're complaining about. I'm typing this on a 2.53GHz P4 running XP and its a crock. -am © 2003 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 18:15:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 18:15:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31705 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31701 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 18:15:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E8EE19B36; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F7E819B28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODGw-0002yB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "news.verizon.net" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:12:15 GMT Floppy images I downloaded in the past couple of days produce the subject diagnostic right after finding the 53C810 SCSI adapter (I also have IDE disks). I have both 3.5" floppy drives attached. The images have passed Windows CheckDisk testing etc. So how can I get Plan 9 installed? Do I have to unplug a floppy drive or what? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 18:15:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 18:15:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31718 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31714 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 18:15:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 18:15:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 187E019B38; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95D9919A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODGw-0002y5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:30 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Hagen Paul Pfeifer Message-ID: Organization: T-Online Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:12:02 GMT Hello, I have a question about dual boot. It is possibly to boot via the bootloader grub and what are the parameter in menu.lst to start plan9? Any hint's? It's also possibly for me to switch to lilo! Can anyone post some examples, I didn't found stuff in the net. Hagen From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:09:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:09:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 558 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:09:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 554 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:09:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:09:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FDF419B37; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from hamnavoe (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8F5919A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9e1fa734d8118379ddd074808f911437@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:08:40 +0100 > I have a question about dual boot. It is possibly to boot via the > bootloader grub and what are the parameter in menu.lst to start plan9? Yes, e.g. if partition 5 (numbering from 0) of drive 0 is a dos or 9fat partition containing 9load and plan9.ini, with /386/pbs or /386/pbslba in the partition's boot block, you can use a menu entry like this: title = Plan9 root = (hd0,5) chainloader = +1 -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:10:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:10:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 577 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:10:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 573 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:10:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:10:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC03F19B3D; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BB3319B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <21b7ffa15ae6142112ceb52f117bfc36@snellwilcox.com> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? In-Reply-To: <3523931878@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:09:49 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. I just downloaded a boot floppy to install another machine last night and it booted fine, so I don't think the install floppy is broken. However I have seen funnies in tha past with floppies not being recognised - usually with very old hardware, perhaps one of the floppy timeouts is a bit conservative? Just guessing... -Steve --upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:12:15 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? Message-Id: <3523931878@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <3523931878-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Floppy images I downloaded in the past couple of days produce the subject diagnostic right after finding the 53C810 SCSI adapter (I also have IDE disks). I have both 3.5" floppy drives attached. The images have passed Windows CheckDisk testing etc. So how can I get Plan 9 installed? Do I have to unplug a floppy drive or what? --upas-wbicnbvzazbjeaisqwqjhalcjt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:14:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:14:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 642 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:14:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 638 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:14:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:14:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4807C19B3F; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE5DB19B30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ODzx-0003ZH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3EE060D3.307@null.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:58:17 GMT A. Baker wrote: > Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- > a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random > growth of living things -- to generate series of > pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by > hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical > formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever > receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or > any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker > be able to discern a pattern and predict the next > number, Uner added." In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:17:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:17:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 680 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:17:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 676 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:17:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:17:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86E6D19B40; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 131D119A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-38-26-101.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@67.38.26.101 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 10:16:44 -0000 Message-ID: <3EE077C6.3050304@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone? References: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> <3EE060D3.307@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 06:15:18 -0500 > > >> Bodacion's Hydra ... > > In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". Maybe thats why it's called hydra... :) > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:20:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:20:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 758 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:20:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 754 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:20:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:20:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E5E819B43; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CF4A19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h56ADBnp017567 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:13:13 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h56AD4NN017566 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:13:04 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Message-ID: <20030606121258.F13660@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030605013240.33002.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> <3EE060D3.307@null.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3EE060D3.307@null.net>; from Douglas A. Gwyn on Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 09:58:17AM +0000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:12:59 +0200 On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 09:58:17AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > A. Baker wrote: > > Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- > > a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random > > growth of living things -- to generate series of > > pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by > > hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical > > formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever > > receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or > > any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker > > be able to discern a pattern and predict the next > > number, Uner added." > > In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". "Obfuscation with intent to deceive" would be a good legal description, to my mind. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 19:23:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 19:23:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 962 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 19:23:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 958 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 19:23:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 19:23:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C56019A93; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03B6919B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030606102257.NMUI5863.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:22:57 +1200 Received: from [210.54.70.25] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20030606102256.NGQK5069.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.54.70.25]> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:22:56 +1200 X-Sender: xtr17008101@pop3.xtra.co.nz (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: [9fans] Chaos anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:20:32 +1200 > Bodacion's Hydra server uses biomorphic mathematics -- > a derivative of Chaos Theory used to model the random > growth of living things -- to generate series of > pattern-less numbers that cannot be deciphered by > hackers, even if they possess the basic mathematical > formula, Uner told NewsFactor. No two Hydra users ever > receive the same session ID, customer ID, order ID, or > any other digital identification. Nor will any hacker > be able to discern a pattern and predict the next > number, Uner added." >In sci.crypt we call this "Snake Oil". In New Zealand, we call this "Complete and Utter Bollocks" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 20:32:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 20:32:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2206 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 20:32:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2202 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 20:32:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 20:32:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ACEF19B39; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CB6319A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h56BaBe28622 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:36:11 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:36:11 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, ron minnich wrote: > And, to add to the stew, you guys are all focusing on the 'is memory > clean' issue, and there are more general issues involved here. > > So, back to the original issue, which is that sometimes you really do want > to reboot after every app :-) Specious distinction. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 20:58:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 20:58:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2578 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 20:58:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2574 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 20:58:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 20:58:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 387C719B32; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC1E019A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h56C1o428837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Even with all that, I'ld be happier if the BIOS or boot ROM zeroed > all memory. Contact your BIOS vendor and ask about a security release that replaces the simple memory check with a memory walker (ala Barber Pole) or burn your own BIOS. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 21:04:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 21:04:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2678 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 21:04:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2674 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 21:04:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 21:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 530E119AA5; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CE5A19B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: quux: guy steele's favorite word? From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: some #s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:02:59 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've already done that. My meaning was only that I wished it were actually a universal feature. Most people, faced with the possibility of turning on a feature might do it. Make them burn a BIOS on a system and its unlikely they'll ever bother; too scarey and too much of a pain. --upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 07:58:21 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Jun 6 07:58:18 EDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 052BD19B2A; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC1E019A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h56C1o428837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: some #s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:01:50 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Even with all that, I'ld be happier if the BIOS or boot ROM zeroed > all memory. Contact your BIOS vendor and ask about a security release that replaces the simple memory check with a memory walker (ala Barber Pole) or burn your own BIOS. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-aewueqjtwmjiqxgbkewhchiyfb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 22:06:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 22:06:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3680 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 22:06:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3676 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 22:06:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 22:06:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F52619B33; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DB9719A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h56C8FG4031994 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:08:20 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual Boot: OpenBSD <=> Plan9 In-Reply-To: <9e1fa734d8118379ddd074808f911437@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:08:15 -0400 (EDT) > Yes, e.g. if partition 5 (numbering from 0) of drive 0 is a dos or 9fat > partition containing 9load and plan9.ini, with /386/pbs or /386/pbslba > in the partition's boot block, you can use a menu entry like this: Best to go with pbslba. Having set up a dual boot with Plan 9 & linux, as well as freebsd & plan 9, I can say they both required it. Perhaps it's something characteristic of how I partition the drive. In any event, the wiki has helpful instructions in the troubleshooting/lilo section. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 22:38:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 22:38:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4196 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 22:38:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4192 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 22:38:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 22:38:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12B6419B3C; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FF0B19AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h56DbZk24445 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:37:35 -0400 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h56DbZF15928 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:37:35 -0400 Message-Id: <200306061337.h56DbZF15928@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fd0!dos not a FAT filesystem? From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:37:34 -0400 I also have a machine where plan9 produces this message during (attempted) install. The funny thing is I once installed plan9 on the same machine with the same floppy drive, so I know the hardware hasn't changed. That was also 4th edition and I doubt the floppy driver code changes much, so I would guess the software hasn't changed either. No other OS has ever had a problem with this drive. I didn't investigate much, but I did think about--and fail to try--the following solutions: 1) Swap floppy drives. 2) Put a spare hard drive into another machine where I have a working plan9, duplicate the installation, adjust for the video card and partitioning differences, and then move the hard drive over. 3) Install to a file using bochs under FreeBSD on the same machine, and then dd the file to a partition on the hard disk. I actually got fairly far along in this one. The install floppy causes an exception in bochs and bochs offers to die. If you decide to ignore the exception then everything is fine, except that the video card is not recognized--no surprise--so you need to do a text install. This would presumably work better in vmware, but I am too cheap to buy it. Bochs is painfully slow. My 800MHz K7 acts like a 4MHz Pentium. For this reason I gave up in mid-install, but I believe it would have worked, if I had been more patient. 4) Debug the floppy driver. This would have been hard both because I don't really know what I'm doing and because you are at such an early stage in the bootstrap that there are no tools available. One final thought: Maybe the hardware isn't exactly the same as when I installed successfully. I have an SCSI adapter on the machine. That hasn't changed. I do have a new SCSI hard disk, though. It's a long shot, but you might try pulling the adapter and seeing if plan9 can now read the floppy. If that works please let me know. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Jun 6 22:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Jun 6 22:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4302 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Jun 2003 22:42:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4298 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 22:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 22:42:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43C1519B47; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2CAA19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitsy panics From: Sape Mullender From: sape@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <33ce554b6927ec6c315f86c7933e034d@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:41:17 -0400 >I reproduced the acme and timesync panics and this time captured the >(wonderfully garbled) serial console output, enclosed below. >acme panic: >--- >kernel fault: >type 0x00000018 psr 0x20000013 pc 0xc006611c > The pc in both panics appears to be in freeb(). Looks like your block pointer b is not pointing to a block. To see where freeb was called, get the stack dump `c0779348=c0037228 ...' into an acme and run Edit ,s/c[0-9a-f]+=([0-9a-f]+)( |\n)+/src\(0x\1\)\n/g Then feed what you get through acid From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 00:24:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 00:24:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5651 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 00:24:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5647 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 00:24:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 00:24:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C102719A17; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFBC419AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4afa5a2591051e5f5bf833735cd263e9@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] leaks? From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:26:32 +0100 > I've been monitoring the memory usage in our file server and it seems > to steadily increase. This script shows the growing memory usage from > our last reboot (but it seems to keep on growing according to the > records for other periods of (up)time). the increases are 4% (venti) and 0.1% (fossil) over 4 days. does it keep growing at that rate? might it just be heap fragmentation? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Jun 7 00:31:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Jun 7 00:31:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5744 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Jun 2003 00:31:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5740 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2003 00:31:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Jun 2003 00:31:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38EDE19AC2; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1285519A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] leaks? In-Reply-To: <4afa5a2591051e5f5bf833735cd263e9@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-blalsjrotczepezvohifwvctpe" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:30:51 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-blalsjrotczepezvohifwvctpe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, it keeps growing. And it could indeed be fragmentation; I didnt trace the problem. thanks --upas-blalsjrotczepezvohifwvctpe Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Jun 6 17:24:53 MDT 2003 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C102719A17; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFBC419AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4afa5a2591051e5f5bf833735cd263e9@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] leaks? From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:26:32 +0100 > I've been monitoring the memory usage in our file server and it seems > to steadily increase. This script shows the growing memory usage from > our last reboot (but it seems to keep on growing according to the > re