From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 00:04:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 00:04:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 24735 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 00:04:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24731 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 00:04:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 00:04:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03D6E19988; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:04:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E22A1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gRyI-0006Ly-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:55:50 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: <181b9e858518e43368953c1050365780@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:55:33 GMT wrote in message news:181b9e858518e43368953c1050365780@plan9.bell-labs.com... > what works and what doesn't. Moving from the VAX to the > 68020 uncovered lots of null references that were going > unnoticed in the past. Long ago, I went through all the user-mode UNIX System V source code and identified and fixed as many of these kinds of bugs as I could find. Unfortunately the system for trouble reporting was utterly not up to the task of feeding these back to the official developers. I think finally most of them got fixed indirectly via Sun picking them up when Guy Harris helped merge the System V and BSD sources for them, since he had my fixed-up System V sources to work from. Anyway, in the process of doing that work, also in dealing with some of the code from the AT&T UNIX System ToolChest, I found that a lot of these VAXisms appeared to have turned up when AT&T moved the code to 3B2s (WE32000 architecture), but instead of changing the code to be truly portable, workarounds were installed under control of #ifdef u3b conditionals. Maybe that resulted from some policy of having to overdocument every change to the base code unless it was made processor-specific; I don't know. The biggest culprits seemed to be passing 0 to terminate execl argument lists and dereferencing argv[i] before testing for i==argc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 00:04:29 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 00:04:29 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 24747 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 00:04:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24743 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 00:04:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 00:04:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B67C7199E4; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:04:22 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9AB8199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:03:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gRyI-0006M4-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:55:50 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:55:46 GMT wrote in message news:ce0ce59eb0d583584480f57dde2bd1a2@plan9.bell-labs.com... > ... However, it seems to be an > accepted consequence amongst compiler writers to trade off > possible incorrect code generation against probable speed > gains. The compiler developers I know don't accept that trade-off. However, C is unique in that there are many "fuzzy" areas of the language where determining what is and is not permitted by the compiler is difficult. That's because of C's heritage as a systems implementation language and the associated desire to permit as much optimization as feasible without making the language untrustworthy when used competently. The current rules for C allow a lot of optimization, but there are also rules for programming so as to not be bitten by the optimizations. It is certainly true that some over-zealous compiler hackers have introduced bugs from time to time. But these are generally acknowledged to be bugs and are fixed when they turn up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 00:19:21 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 00:19:21 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 24946 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 00:19:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24942 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 00:19:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 00:19:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A26C1998C; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:19:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C10319A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:18:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gSDW-00076P-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:11:34 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: <20020226213451.56e87b33.matt@proweb.co.uk>, <200202270021.g1R0L0s43681@ducky.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] compilers - was GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:11:13 GMT "Mike Haertel" wrote in message news:200202270021.g1R0L0s43681@ducky.net... > The idea that "hardware/software co-design" is Good has to rank > among the great fallacies of computer science and the computing > industry in the last two decades. Unfortunately, performance expectations for new processors require rather complex architectures involving multiple concurrent pipelines, etc. making efficient use of the architectures difficult; therefore more responsibility is placed on the code generators. This seems inevitable. There are C compilers whose "code" is actually gate configurations for FPGAs, etc. which is of course this idea taken to an extreme. In earlier days of computing, little attention was usually paid to the requirements of HLLs when designing ISAs, and sometimes what the IS architects guessed would be helpful really wasn't (e.g. PDP-11 MARK instruction). (There were a few notable exceptions, e.g. Burroughs [56][57]00 models.) The result was that major parts of processors were not used at all by HLLs, which was bad economics. This lack of input from compiler developers was widely recognized, and by the early 1980s several processor manufacturers had changed their procedures so that the hardware guys and compiler guys talked to each other early enough to influence the design (of both). These days, it is generally assumed that most programming is going to be in C, so attention is focussed on supporting C to the possible detriment of other languages.. > However they might curse the oddities of the x86 ISA, I am sure the > Plan 9 developers are grateful for the fact that all x86 implementations > are designed with a goal of getting at least adeqaute performance > without recompiling. ? Intel's x86 architecture was designed to be used from assembly language, not HLL, and it is pretty bad when judged by its support for HLLs. Even the more recent MMX etc. extensions aren't well suited for use from HLLs except via machine-specific asm hooks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 00:23:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 00:23:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 24983 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 00:23:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24979 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 00:23:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 00:23:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE625199B3; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:23:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4169519980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:22:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uumxxwinqahqgmfnqlwxyxymmp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:22:23 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uumxxwinqahqgmfnqlwxyxymmp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think 3B2 code deserves its own place in hell. Poring over the ESS#5 code, someone found that there were lots of strcmp(p, "f(") == 0 checks (I may have gotten the exact string wrong but it's close). It took us a while to figure out why. Apparently, location 0 on the 3b had the 3 bytes 'f' '(' '\0', someone noticed that when programs blew up they were pointing to "f(", and the worlds most amazing kludge for detecting nil pointers was born. I'm beginning to be convinced that, with the exception of Ken's registerization, bugs in optimizing compilers are more likely mistakes than knowing attempts to hang over the edge too far. I heard a rumor yesterday that I'ld like dispelled if possible. It was that the Linux kernel had to be compiled with optimization turned on to work. I just tried compiling my Redhat system without and it crashed but then I turned optimization on and it still didn't work, so clearly I'm incompetent. --upas-uumxxwinqahqgmfnqlwxyxymmp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 28 10:04:19 EST 2002 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 28 10:04:18 EST 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A7B8199B9; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:04:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E22A1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gRyI-0006Ly-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:55:50 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: <181b9e858518e43368953c1050365780@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:55:33 GMT wrote in message news:181b9e858518e43368953c1050365780@plan9.bell-labs.com... > what works and what doesn't. Moving from the VAX to the > 68020 uncovered lots of null references that were going > unnoticed in the past. Long ago, I went through all the user-mode UNIX System V source code and identified and fixed as many of these kinds of bugs as I could find. Unfortunately the system for trouble reporting was utterly not up to the task of feeding these back to the official developers. I think finally most of them got fixed indirectly via Sun picking them up when Guy Harris helped merge the System V and BSD sources for them, since he had my fixed-up System V sources to work from. Anyway, in the process of doing that work, also in dealing with some of the code from the AT&T UNIX System ToolChest, I found that a lot of these VAXisms appeared to have turned up when AT&T moved the code to 3B2s (WE32000 architecture), but instead of changing the code to be truly portable, workarounds were installed under control of #ifdef u3b conditionals. Maybe that resulted from some policy of having to overdocument every change to the base code unless it was made processor-specific; I don't know. The biggest culprits seemed to be passing 0 to terminate execl argument lists and dereferencing argv[i] before testing for i==argc. --upas-uumxxwinqahqgmfnqlwxyxymmp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 01:13:24 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 01:13:24 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25455 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 01:13:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25451 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 01:13:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 01:13:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE82A199B3; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:13:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A130119988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:12:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1effb825dbe9487afe6eff8834c89c96@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] priority bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:12:17 -0500 There are two priority classes in Plan 9, one for kproc's and processes loaded with the kernel, and one for everything else. They intersect at one priority level, the former having the edge. Due to priority inheritence across fork, on the terminals all processes fall in the first class. If you are getting screwed by cpu hogs, you might want to add this to after the arg processing in init.c: int fd; char ctl[128]; snprint(ctl, sizeof(ctl), "#p/%d/ctl", getpid()); fd = open(ctl, OWRITE); if(fd < 0) print("init: warning: can't open %s: %r\n", ctl); else if(write(fd, "pri 10", 6) != 6) print("init: warning: can't set priority: %r\n"); close(fd); It'll drop init and everything it starts to the lower class. Also, you can make the kernel much more aggressive at stepping on cpu hogs with the following change to ready() in proc.c: change if(p->state == Running){ p->rt++; pri = ((p->art + (p->rt<<1))>>2)/Squantum; } else { p->art = (p->art + (p->rt<<1))>>2; p->rt = 0; pri = p->art/Squantum; } to if(p->state == Running){ p->rt++; pri = (p->art + p->rt)/2; } else { p->art = (p->art + p->rt + 2)/2; pri = (p->art + p->rt)/2; p->rt = 0; } It basicly gets rid of the damping so that things run up and down priority levels pretty quickly. It helped rsc when running his mp3 encoder. Tell me of any adverse affects. I'll stick it in the distribution if noone is screwed by it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 01:18:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 01:18:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25506 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25502 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 01:18:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C4E819992; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:18:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55E9519980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:17:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gT1O-0001Fa-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:03:06 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: <20020227203722.A2370@cnm-vra.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] OT: sam on XP Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:02:17 GMT "Micah Stetson" wrote in message news:20020227203722.A2370@cnm-vra.com... > I know this isn't exactly Plan 9 related, but has anyone > here used the Windows version of sam on Windows XP? Yeah. You can fix it by selecting Properties for the invoking icon and setting it up with an earlier environment, e.g. Windows 98 if using Windows XP Home Edition. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 01:18:27 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 01:18:27 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25514 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25510 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 01:18:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0219E199BE; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:18:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9BC519988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:17:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gT1N-0001FU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:03:05 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: <15484.64496.974395.322869@nanonic.hilbert.space>, <87pu2qy1sk.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] splitting the compiler Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:02:04 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > I'm pretty familiar with GCC internals, and it's pretty darn > portable. But perhaps there's a whole level of portability I'm > missing. original poster meant retargeting (i think). with (say) lcc, all one has to worry about is a relatively straight-forward code generator. a student targeted it for ns32000 in about a week. i would expect no more time for 8c, but estimate three to six months for gcc. oz -- www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz | don't count your chickens in glass houses york u. computer science | until the cows come home. -- david vestal From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 01:18:35 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 01:18:35 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25521 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25517 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 01:18:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA2A5199EE; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:18:30 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23A5B19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gT1N-0001FO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:03:05 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: , <20020227122932.M26250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:01:50 GMT "Lucio De Re" wrote in message news:20020227122932.M26250@cackle.proxima.alt.za... > That's being intentionally obtuse. Adding code to a computer program > increases the probability of its being incorrect. Prove me wrong. That wasn't what Presotto said, and it's an abuse of the term "probability". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 01:18:44 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 01:18:44 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25528 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25524 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 01:18:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 01:18:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9D301998C; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:18:40 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D06F319988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:17:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gT1M-0001FI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:03:04 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: , <3C7CFAFE.4996DA2A@research.bell-labs.com>, <87u1s2y1uu.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:01:37 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote in message news:87u1s2y1uu.fsf@becket.becket.net... > In the presence of concurrence, even this is not sufficient, because a > different thread could clobber the value. However, C does not > guarantee synchronization in this case unless the variable is marked > "volatile". Actually the C standard does not address threads at all. It is nice that "volatile" helps, but I'm sure it doesn't totally solve the concurrent data access problem for threads. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 01:36:24 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 01:36:24 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25664 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 01:36:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25660 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 01:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 01:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D538199BB; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:36:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6567A19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:35:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gT2O-0001HP-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:04:08 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: robot 0 Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20020225144618.8D32C19A56@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] vga prob after install Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:03:54 GMT i had experienced the same (confusing) situation. the nvidia binaries at http://users.bigpond.net.au/nwaples/ can also work as well. andrey@lanl.gov (andrey mirtchovski) wrote in message news:<20020225144618.8D32C19A56@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > the installation kernel knows of nvidia, however the p9 distribution > you installed does not.. the message 'unknown controller' is > indicative of aux/vga (the new one you installed) not having nvidia > support.. > > download the vganvidia.c, nvidia.c and something.h files and do the > following: From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:10:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:10:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25878 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:10:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25874 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:10:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:10:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56D3C199BC; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:10:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 662AD19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:09:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2888 invoked by uid 991); 28 Feb 2002 17:07:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20020228170757.2886.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] priority bug In-Reply-To: Message from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:12:17 EST." <1effb825dbe9487afe6eff8834c89c96@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:07:57 -0500 A while back Eran Gabber had a usenix paper on an improved scheduler. Did that work out well enough? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:10:27 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:10:27 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25885 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:10:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25881 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:10:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78F17199F2; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:10:21 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1ACD8199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gTcm-0003QK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:41:44 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87sn7lh86j.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200202281103.g1SB3vP25315@cbe.ericsson.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:41:27 GMT eleberg@cbe.ericsson.se (Bengt Kleberg) writes: > There is also a third reason: > There are programs that use gcc features not present in any other c > compiler. So one needs atleast to have gcc. And once that is decided, > why bother with yet another c compiler? > (The same thing happens with gmake) Yes, that's true. (Ironically, the GNU Project generally prohibits the use of gcc-specific extensions in its software in order to encourage greater portibility.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:10:34 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:10:34 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25892 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:10:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25888 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:10:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:10:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66450199DD; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:10:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 84E90199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:09:31 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Line-In From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020228170931.84E90199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:09:18 -0500 glad BladeEnc is working for you. as the page i referenced notes, i think your results from LAME match what i was seeing. rsc noted earlier that LAME and /dev/audio disagree about byte order in the samples; i've lost my LAME binary, so i can't confirm that this makes my issue go away, but if you have LAME around you could try the command he posted: lame -v -rx -S --preset cd $i $i.mp3 && rm $i and see if that produces more sensable mp3s. it'd be nice to have both LAME and BladeEnc working, since they're better at different things. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:12:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:12:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25920 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25916 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:12:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76F2F199E4; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:12:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02DF61998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gToh-00057p-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:54:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87g03lh7qc.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3C7CFAFE.4996DA2A@research.bell-labs.com>, <87u1s2y1uu.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:52:54 GMT "AMSRL-CI-CN" writes: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote in message > news:87u1s2y1uu.fsf@becket.becket.net... > > In the presence of concurrence, even this is not sufficient, because a > > different thread could clobber the value. However, C does not > > guarantee synchronization in this case unless the variable is marked > > "volatile". > > Actually the C standard does not address threads at all. > It is nice that "volatile" helps, but I'm sure it doesn't totally > solve the concurrent data access problem for threads. No, certainly not! I misspoke. I shouldn't have said "synchronization", which does imply more, and certainly you still need mutexes or semaphores or something. "volatile" is a declaration to the compiler that the value could be changing at any time, unbeknownst to the compiler, and so values can't be cached in registers. If "acquire mutex" is a function call, then you don't even need to declare the variable volatile, since the compiler knows that the function call could clobber all of memory. So it isn't even necessary for threads, if you *are* using mutexes, and for other reasons you certainly do need to. So the reference to threads was a needless confusion; sorry. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:12:25 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:12:25 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25927 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25923 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:12:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7803319992; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:12:21 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C77619A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gTqc-0005Gw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:56:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87ofi9h7zp.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:55:28 GMT presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com writes: > I heard a rumor yesterday that I'ld like dispelled if > possible. It was that the Linux kernel had to be compiled > with optimization turned on to work. That has been true for some versions; it's a programmer bug. Specifically, there are certain kinds of inlining that happen only when optimizing, and Linux required those to occur. For example, in GCC, if you define a function like: extern inline foo (...) {...} Then you get a function which will be inlined (but generally only if optimization is turned on); if it's not inlined, then no code is output at all for the function. (You are supposed to link with a regular static version too.) Such "extern inline" declarations are normally put in header files. Linux had problems like these, where it was using such inlines, but didn't provide the static version. So when optimization is turned off, the inline doesn't happen, and you get an unresolvable external reference. There may have been other problems too. These are all in the category of programmer errors. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:12:35 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:12:35 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25939 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25935 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:12:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEF8019A06; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:12:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8855199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gToi-000585-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:54:04 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87bse9h7ni.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <15484.64496.974395.322869@nanonic.hilbert.space>, <87pu2qy1sk.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] splitting the compiler Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:53:08 GMT ozan s yigit writes: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > > > I'm pretty familiar with GCC internals, and it's pretty darn > > portable. But perhaps there's a whole level of portability I'm > > missing. > > original poster meant retargeting (i think). with (say) lcc, all one has > to worry about is a relatively straight-forward code generator. a student > targeted it for ns32000 in about a week. i would expect no more time for > 8c, but estimate three to six months for gcc. Hrm, I retargeted GCC (back in the days of version 1) for the old Clipper chip in about a month. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:12:52 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:12:52 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25951 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25947 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:12:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:12:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 742F019A17; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:12:42 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F103A19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:11:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gTqc-0005Gq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:56:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <877koxh7kw.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20020226213451.56e87b33.matt@proweb.co.uk>, <200202270021.g1R0L0s43681@ducky.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] compilers - was GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:55:16 GMT "AMSRL-CI-CN" writes: > Unfortunately, performance expectations for new processors require > rather complex architectures involving multiple concurrent pipelines, > etc. making efficient use of the architectures difficult; therefore more > responsibility is placed on the code generators. This seems inevitable. GCC has a generic mechanism for describing pipelined architectures that is pretty good. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:15:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:15:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25971 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:15:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25967 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:15:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:15:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D65819980; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:15:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE9AF199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:14:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gTWZ-0002Vv-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:35:19 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:35:10 GMT Hi Dave, > I heard a rumor yesterday that I'ld like dispelled if possible. It > was that the Linux kernel had to be compiled with optimization turned > on to work. AIUI that's correct. gcc only inlines requested functions if -O, or -O2, etc., has been given. If there's no `fall back' implementation of a requested-to-be-inlined function provided then you end up with an undefined reference, i.e. function foo doesn't exist anywhere. Linux puts many such `inline' functions in headers files in place of pre-processor macros. http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.0.3/gcc_5.html#SEC102 The norm is to -O2 the Linux kernel. Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:19:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:19:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26009 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:19:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26005 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:19:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:19:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0585219A0C; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:19:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC27E199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:18:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gTsP-0005LL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:57:53 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87k7sxh7un.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3C7CFAFE.4996DA2A@research.bell-labs.com>, <87u1s2y1uu.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:57:05 GMT Ralph Corderoy writes: > It doesn't have special knowledge of some functions behaviour then, > like AIX's xlc compiler? For example, #defines strlen(s) to > be __strlen(s) and the compiler knows that calls to __strlen can be > optimised in various ways because it knows more about strlen's > behaviour than can be expressed in . No, in general GCC does not have such knowledge. If it is able to inline the function, then of course it can do the optimization, but an inlined function isn't a function call at all, so that's really a different case. Also, GCC has some builtin functions; it knows the behavior of those. But not (in general) library functions. This is the kind of inter-function optimization that the MIPS compiler does quite generally, and GCC doesn't really attempt at all. (One reason, certainly, is that it's a little fragile, especially when the C library and GCC are developed separately.) Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:20:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:20:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26028 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:20:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26024 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:20:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:20:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2377519A60; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:20:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 885C2199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:19:26 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020228171926.885C2199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:19:19 -0500 lucio said: Adding code to a computer program increases the probability of its being incorrect. Prove me wrong. then tb responded: Your argument is bogus, then. If *that's* all you mean, then you have an argument against *ever* adding *any* feature to *anything*, since you would be getting "probably gains" and earning "possible incorrect behavior". tb's extention of lucio's argument does not logically follow. in a strict logical sense, this is probably because lucio isn't even _making_ an argument (so it can't be bogus). one can indeed make some inferences from lucio's assertion (tb: do you argue with the assertion?), however. it seems tb reads lucio to be implying something along these lines: adding code to a program increases its probability of being incorrect, THEREFOR you shouldn't add any code to any programs but i think what lucio, and probably most of the people on the 8c side of the recent 8c/gcc discussion, meant is more like: adding code to a program increases its probability of being incorrect, THEREFOR you should be sure any gains won by this code are greater than this risk. i don't think anyone here would seriously argue that the cost/gain decisions should never be made, but rather that the way the decisions were/are made in gcc is incorrect. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:27:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:27:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26093 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:27:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26089 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:27:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:27:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AC3F199B6; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:27:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust17.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F132C19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:25:59 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] splitting the compiler From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dragflqzewvdufzsncnvxnncqm" Message-Id: <20020228172559.F132C19A2C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:21:30 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dragflqzewvdufzsncnvxnncqm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh yes, i'd forgotten about the Clipper. i did Ka Kc and Kl for the Fairchild/Intergraph Clipper chip in a week (1992/3 Plan 9), but i wasn't working very hard. the Plan 9 assembler is nearly always at most an afternoon's effort. the time for the compiler varies quite a bit. the Clipper architecture was straightforward. the compiler was easy. most of the time was spent on the linker. Kl got to compensate for all the processor pipeline/scoreboard bugs. dreadful. nice architecture but buggy implementation. --upas-dragflqzewvdufzsncnvxnncqm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1014916427:10:02010:1; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:13:47 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1001535; 28 Feb 2002 17:13 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEF8019A06; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:12:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8855199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gToi-000585-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:54:04 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <87bse9h7ni.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <15484.64496.974395.322869@nanonic.hilbert.space>, <87pu2qy1sk.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] splitting the compiler Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:53:08 GMT ozan s yigit writes: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > > > I'm pretty familiar with GCC internals, and it's pretty darn > > portable. But perhaps there's a whole level of portability I'm > > missing. > > original poster meant retargeting (i think). with (say) lcc, all one has > to worry about is a relatively straight-forward code generator. a student > targeted it for ns32000 in about a week. i would expect no more time for > 8c, but estimate three to six months for gcc. Hrm, I retargeted GCC (back in the days of version 1) for the old Clipper chip in about a month. Thomas --upas-dragflqzewvdufzsncnvxnncqm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 02:43:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 02:43:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26219 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 02:43:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26215 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 02:43:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:43:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21F42199E4; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:43:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9900919A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:42:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:41:59 -0500 > No, in general GCC does not have such knowledge. > > If it is able to inline the function, then of course it can do the > optimization, but an inlined function isn't a function call at all, so > that's really a different case. > > Also, GCC has some builtin functions; it knows the behavior of those. > But not (in general) library functions. It certainly knows about strcpy() and memmove() (or whatever they're #defined to in the headers). So for instance, strcpy(s, "xyzzy"); will get replaced with a bunch of instructions to store the appropriate constant values in s. I'm just reporting, I don't think it's a particularly good thing. Like, do we really need that extra .1% speed improvement, at the expense of code size, compile speed, and transparent behaviour? When I say .1%, I'm just pulling a number out of the air. Clearly, if your program is composed entirely out of strcpy's of constants, the improvement could be much larger(!). But, I claim that this is a pathological case, and the time wasted on such `improvements' is generally better spent elsewhere (like, maybe, some day, someone will simplify the morass of #ifdefs that GCC and Binutils are afflicted with...). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 03:00:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 03:00:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26368 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 03:00:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26364 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 03:00:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 03:00:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E72819A2F; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0FA0A19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:59:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] priority bug MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mnihsxskownjkkjlosexlpuhqn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:59:47 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnihsxskownjkkjlosexlpuhqn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It worked but was a bit too major to stick in the normal release. It knew about oversubscribing and would relegate anything that didn't have the focus to best effort. It had the advantage of being able to have many things going and the one you were most interested in to have all the resource it wanted. It scheduled not only cpu but other resources as well. At one point I started sticking it into the main line but the related changes were a little too pervasive for me so I backed out. Now we have a real time scheduler that pb(peter bosch) did to handle mpeg streams and other goo. I haven't used it but it is in our main stream so it'll at least see the light of day someday. --upas-mnihsxskownjkkjlosexlpuhqn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 28 12:10:18 EST 2002 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 28 12:10:17 EST 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 752FA199B7; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:10:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 662AD19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:09:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2888 invoked by uid 991); 28 Feb 2002 17:07:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20020228170757.2886.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] priority bug In-Reply-To: Message from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:12:17 EST." <1effb825dbe9487afe6eff8834c89c96@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:07:57 -0500 A while back Eran Gabber had a usenix paper on an improved scheduler. Did that work out well enough? --upas-mnihsxskownjkkjlosexlpuhqn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 03:36:25 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 03:36:25 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26622 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 03:36:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26618 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 03:36:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 03:36:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CF8719A2A; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:36:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 60D2B19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com ([135.104.2.9]) by crufty; Thu Feb 28 13:34:13 EST 2002 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (prinsengracht.cs.bell-labs.com [135.104.50.77]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1SIY0t83592 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:34:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: sape@achille.cs.bell-labs.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:30:11 +0100 phaet0n@hotmail.com asked: I am wondering if anyone is developing, or planning, a GUI toolkit for Plan 9? If not, does anyone have any good design ideas, especially centring around Plan 9 features? Are there any good papers on this topic? We have an experimental GUI library at the labs. It's called libcontrol. Rob Pike did most of the design and I took over its maintenance and changed it in various ways. It relies heavily on the thread library. The controls (our widgets) are managed by a control thread. Operations on controls are sent to this thread via a Channel of char*, e.g., chanprint(controlset->ctl, "controlname operation parameters"); We have basic controls such as buttons, textbuttons, labels, sliders, texts and editable windows. In addition we have metacontrols for composition: radiobuttons, rows of controls, columns of controls, and stacks of controls. A stack consists of overlayed controls -- only the top one is visible. Obviously, you can make rows of columns, or columns of rows, etc. Stacks, columns, and rows help in doing automatic layout, initially, or upon resize. Controls report events via a per-control event channel. These event channels can be rewired, for instance, to have the events of a slider be wired into a text or edit control, turning a slider into a scroll bar. We have a modest number of applications using it now and there has been a rumor that maybe acme will once upon a time become a libcontrol user. Sape From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 03:42:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 03:42:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26658 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 03:42:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26654 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 03:42:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 03:42:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAAC2199BC; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:42:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc113.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.113]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8C6FB199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:41:29 -0500 (EST) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020228184129.8C6FB199BE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:41:23 +0100 Anyone thought of using a file system instead of the actual libcontrol design? I mean, stuff like: mkdir /mnt/gui/panel echo 'align center' >/mnt/gui/panel/ctl mkdir /mnt/gui/panel/button echo 'press me' >/mnt/gui/panel/button/label cat /mnt/gui/panel/events and the like. that would be cool to build silly guis for things like the ipaq with just silly shell scripts behind the gui. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 03:57:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 03:57:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26758 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 03:57:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26754 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 03:57:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 03:57:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9DC819A33; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:57:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 63C24199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:56:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4c605eeb26e4cf421d326120320d677d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:56:42 -0500 > Anyone thought of using a file system instead of the actual > libcontrol design? I mean, stuff like: Yes, Geoff Langdale did something like this a number of years ago. I don't know what happened to it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 04:54:22 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 04:54:22 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27207 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 04:54:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27203 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 04:54:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 04:54:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFE0919A06; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:54:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz (210-55-57-168.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.55.57.168]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53A83199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:53:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([192.168.1.1]) by frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:55:28 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020301085533.009c3bf8@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway? In-Reply-To: <21235.1014848082@apnic.net> References: <"Your message of Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:40:35 -0500." <200202272140.QAA03473@math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2002 19:55:28.0835 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF11A130:01C1C091] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:55:33 +1300 George Michaelson wrote: > >A monoatheistical selection of the analects would be more useful > > 'The gospel according to pike' > >being different to: > > 'The apocryphal book of boyd' > >but both having their place. > Good concept. Perhaps we could also have a special section for the words of the prophet Bushnell, crying out in the wilderness - "The GNU Public Licence is a jealous Licence, Thou shalt have none other Licence but me" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 05:00:24 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 05:00:24 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27249 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 05:00:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27245 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 05:00:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 05:00:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03A32199F2; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:00:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15754199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:59:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21023 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:59:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g1SJx1311467; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:59:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g1SJx1m29859 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:59:01 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202281959.g1SJx1m29859@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:59:01 +0100 Does anyone know whether this vga card is (or is not) supported? If so, what controller, etc.? The main chip has the following text (which doesn't mean a thing to me, and doesn't seem to show up in vgadb): alliance semiconductor ProMotion(r) aT24 (c)(m) 1995 M2760C The bios chip (or so I assume) contains a label: Stealth Video 2500 DIAMOND (c)1996 V1.03 Thanks, Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 05:09:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 05:09:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27344 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 05:09:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27340 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 05:09:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 05:09:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 407AB19981; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:09:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 017A819A55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:08:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-177.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.177]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id g1SK8ek30414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:08:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42f91702800cb6f9b7fb1a807741a1b1@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vga: is diamond stealth video 2500 supported? From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:08:39 -0500 Boot an install disk (you can just comment out the vgasize= and monitor= in plan9.ini) and run /bin/pci. That's the best way to tell. (Or is it an ISA card?) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 05:16:28 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 05:16:28 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27440 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 05:16:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27436 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 05:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 05:16:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0547A19A2C; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:16:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from acl.lanl.gov (plan9.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B0701199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:15:25 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vga: is diamond stealth video 2500 supported? From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020228201525.B0701199B6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:17:57 -0700 apparently alliance semiconductor no longer manufactures graphics cards (according to their web page). they provide linux (and SCO!) drivers for this particular card, but since the download file is in .exe format i can't see whether the chipset used is supported or not... www.alsc.com/support/at24.htm i also find http://www.yourvote.com/pci/ useful -- it has the device and vendor id for most (all?) pci devices. useful for matching unknown hardware. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 05:19:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 05:19:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27466 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 05:19:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27462 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 05:19:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 05:19:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C10019A0D; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:19:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 20F5019A29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:18:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vga: is diamond stealth video 2500 supported? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dccrgqtxraervnwbdxoprvpxzq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:18:08 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dccrgqtxraervnwbdxoprvpxzq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's not supported. if you knew what you were doing it doesn't look hard if the xfree86 source is anything to go by. --upas-dccrgqtxraervnwbdxoprvpxzq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Feb 28 15:09:18 EST 2002 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Feb 28 15:09:17 EST 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CF5419A2D; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:09:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 017A819A55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:08:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-177.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.177]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id g1SK8ek30414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:08:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42f91702800cb6f9b7fb1a807741a1b1@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vga: is diamond stealth video 2500 supported? From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:08:39 -0500 Boot an install disk (you can just comment out the vgasize= and monitor= in plan9.ini) and run /bin/pci. That's the best way to tell. (Or is it an ISA card?) Russ --upas-dccrgqtxraervnwbdxoprvpxzq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 05:39:21 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 05:39:21 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27594 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 05:39:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27590 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 05:39:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 05:39:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78CB019A0C; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:39:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9ABDA19A62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:37:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21990 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:37:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g1SKbS314937; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:37:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g1SKbSf10608 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:37:28 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202282037.g1SKbSf10608@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vga: is diamond stealth video 2500 supported? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:18:08 -0500." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:37:28 +0100 > it's not supported. > if you knew what you were doing it doesn't look hard if the > xfree86 source is anything to go by. (it's a pci card). So far I don't know what I'm doing - and I have great respect for those who understand (vga) drivers, I may have a look at the xfree86 source, once I again have a fs that works... (but probably 'real work' has to get top priority by that time) Thanks, Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 06:07:22 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 06:07:22 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27788 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 06:07:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27784 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 06:07:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 06:07:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7F7B19A60; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:07:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 868CE19A56 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:06:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22633 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:06:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g1SL6o317545; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:06:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g1SL6n618494 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:06:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202282106.g1SL6n618494@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:39:35 +0100." <200202221839.g1MIdaR09315@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> References: <20020222122536.A643419A6E@mail.cse.psu.edu> <200202221255.g1MCt3q02259@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> <200202221839.g1MIdaR09315@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:06:49 +0100 Hoping this still doesn't bore to much, yet another short update. Status: not solved yet. I have added an ide disk containing a stand-alone plan 9 installation to the fs pc, and can look at the /dev/sd*/data. On the worm I can see strings that look like data, and at (just after the start of) the cache I see the configuration. Would there be a way (not too involved) to extract that part of the fs code that 'parses' the on-disk data, to interpret it (and so see whether/where the(re) problems are)? Or could I use pieces of kfs? Wrt things I noticed previously: when I do 'p /dev/sd00/data' I see the config data - and indeed there appears a single-character error (filsss instead of filsys, or something similar). Is the ide-patched fs kernel 'compatible' with the plan9pc one? Or do the on-disk structures differ (w.r.t. 'using 16K blocks') Thanks, Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 06:10:23 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 06:10:23 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27806 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 06:10:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27802 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 06:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 06:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A649919A4A; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:10:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70B75199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:09:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-177.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.177]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id g1SL98k20668 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:09:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6f1e535b5006a4d39a822acbd26f140e@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:09:07 -0500 > Is the ide-patched fs kernel 'compatible' with the plan9pc one? > Or do the on-disk structures differ (w.r.t. 'using 16K blocks') it's just a compile-time constant; you can recompile, right? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 06:19:26 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 06:19:26 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27861 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 06:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27857 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 06:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 06:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19BB819A29; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:19:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A379C199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:18:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22856 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:18:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g1SLHw318548; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:17:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g1SLHxd21267 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:17:59 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202282117.g1SLHxd21267@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:09:07 -0500." <6f1e535b5006a4d39a822acbd26f140e@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <6f1e535b5006a4d39a822acbd26f140e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:17:59 +0100 > > Is the ide-patched fs kernel 'compatible' with the plan9pc one? > > Or do the on-disk structures differ (w.r.t. 'using 16K blocks') > > it's just a compile-time constant; you can recompile, right? Certainly. But with my fs in the state that it is now, I thought I'd try for a change to ask (a) question(s) first, rather than only after the calf has drowned :-) (or however you say this in english). Thanks for confirming that indeed this is a compile time constant, Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 06:25:34 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 06:25:34 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27905 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 06:25:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27901 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 06:25:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 06:25:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6EA419A56; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:25:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust17.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B9D8919A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:24:42 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020228212442.B9D8919A67@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:19:56 0000 >>Or could I use pieces of kfs? disk/kfs reorders some of the disc structures to allow a choice of block size on the command line, so you can't use it directly to read an fs(8) structure. if you're v keen or desperate, you can do a variant of kfs that uses the file server's ordering of disc structures, mainly by reordering structure members and making them static sizes. it must be a good seven years ago i made the changes (for an older version of plan 9) and i haven't got the code now. i can't even remember what happened that caused me to make the effort. it can be done, though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 06:37:35 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 06:37:35 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28007 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 06:37:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28002 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 06:37:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 06:37:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 826D7199B6; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:37:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C931519A61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:36:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:34:35 -0500 > I think 3B2 code deserves its own place in hell. Poring over > the ESS#5 code, someone found that there were lots of > strcmp(p, "f(") == 0 checks (I may have gotten the exact > string wrong but it's close). It took us a while to figure > out why. Apparently, location 0 on the 3b had the 3 bytes > 'f' '(' '\0', someone noticed that when programs blew up > they were pointing to "f(", and the worlds most amazing > kludge for detecting nil pointers was born. Happily, it wasn't actually 5ESS, only Unix. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 06:56:21 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 06:56:21 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28132 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 06:56:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28128 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 06:56:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 06:56:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E72E19A6A; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:56:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5A7119A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23586 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:55:21 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g1SLtJ321522; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:55:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g1SLtJ701672 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:55:19 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202282155.g1SLtJ701672@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:55:18 +0100 Some time ago I wrote a (silly?) acme coffee list ('spreadsheet-like') rc script, to get some experience with 'programming' acme (and to try to confront colleagues with acme :-) To play with it: unpack the tar file, open coffeelist in acme, and follow the instructions (put there for the colleagues). My first attempt at acme programming (and scripting rc). Meant to replace the on-paper list on which people just put a mark when they take a cup (in the mean time obsoleted by 'the boss' introducing free coffee, we still have a beer list for the friday afternoon so there is still a potential use :-) Basically, the list contains for each person a line containing several fields, where each field consists of a name followed by a number, eg. for cups total, cups today, total amount to pay. The order of the fields doesn't matter, and not all fields need to be there. In addition, there is a line containing the price per cup, and some overall numbers. The script 'streepje' ('mark' in dutch) increments the fields's numbers in the selected line, and adds missing fields. The script 'paid' resets fields's values to zero. This is very much a toy. After Russ' comment quite some time ago (about acd?) of mainly using the power of acme('s regular expressions etc), I tried to do this here as well. The coffe-list file (= window) name is hard coded. One improvement could be to sort the updates that have to be done on reverse address order, such that the field value addresses do not have to be gotten again when doing the updates. Another could be to make it a real program that handles all user interaction in the coffeelist window, but that seemed a bit difficult from rc. (There might be a newer version on my fs, but currently I'm unable to check that.) Anyway, enjoy (or not), Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 07:00:21 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 07:00:21 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28153 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 07:00:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28149 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 07:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 07:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13DCD19A71; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:00:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F7BD19A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:59:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23679 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:59:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g1SLxm321864; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:59:49 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g1SLxnE03013 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:59:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202282159.g1SLxnE03013@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:19:56." <20020228212442.B9D8919A67@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20020228212442.B9D8919A67@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:59:48 +0100 > >>Or could I use pieces of kfs? [details omitted] > it can be done, though. Thanks! I'll have a look tomorrow! Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 07:31:22 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 07:31:22 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28398 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 07:31:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28394 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 07:31:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 07:31:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F06719A62; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:31:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4712A19A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:30:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 6189 invoked by uid 991); 28 Feb 2002 22:30:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20020228223058.6188.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:30:58 -0500 When do we get to the point of diminishing returns using optimizing compilers? Do people actually think that large sources are as free from bugs as smaller sources are? Is it worth the uncertainty of fancy compilers to have your application run 0.09 instead of 0.10 seconds? N. Wirths guidelines: - Use straightforward techniques - Simple compilers are more reliable compilers - Generate good code for the frequent case; don't optimize the exceptions - Generate good code from the beginning; don't generate bad code and optimize later - Don't let the compiler repair poor programming style - Generate predictable code - What is difficult to compile is usually also difficult to understand - Instead of applying more sophisticated compilation techniques, simplify the language - Strive for short compilation times - A compiler is also an educational tool; it should inhibit bad programming style - Write the compiler in its own language Hanspeter Mossenbock, `Compiler Construction: The Art of Niklaus Wirth', The School of Niklaus Wirth: The Art of Simplicity, 2000, dpunkt.verlag GmbH, pp 55-68. ISBN 1-55860-723-4 Brantley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 11:00:11 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 11:00:11 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 32172 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 11:00:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32168 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 11:00:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 11:00:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B268419A04; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:59:57 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29FCE199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:58:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from po (mail@pm3-1-25.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.25]) by idiom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01175 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:56:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by po id 16gbJh-0000eX-00; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:54:33 -0800 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 In-Reply-To: <200202281103.g1SB3vP25315@cbe.ericsson.se> References: <200202281103.g1SB3vP25315@cbe.ericsson.se> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:54:33 -0800 Thomas: >> Odd that NetBSD uses GCC, isn't it? No, it's no great wonder why more >> people use GCC than 8c. There are two reasons: >> >> GCC generates better code >> GCC has a more liberal license than 8c. Bengt Kleberg writes: >There is also a third reason: Fourth reason: when Plan 9's license was liberalized 2 years ago, gcc was already well entrenched. before the liberalization I think using 8c would've cost you $400. 2 years ago, there was already so much invested in gcc that technical and minor license differences between it and its competitors make almost no difference. eg, Intel invested in it to support ia64. eg, Glasgow Haskell Compiler and Mercury compiler and probably a lot of others I do not know about compile to gcc-specific C to take advantage of the investments made on gcc backends. So, like Windows 3/95/98/ME, it does not have to be good; large network effects keep it popular, good or not. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 11:30:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 11:30:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 644 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 11:30:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 640 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 11:30:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 11:30:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9732B19992; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:30:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.1.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D0FB199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161A48EE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from markp@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.3nb1/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id g212Tbw03760 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:29:37 -0500 (EST) From: Message-Id: <200203010229.g212Tbw03760@panix1.panix.com> X-Mailer: mailx (AT&T/BSD) 9.8 2001-04-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] OT samfans? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:29:37 -0500 (EST) hi... speaking of sam, is there still an active samfans list somewhere? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 11:54:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 11:54:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 1408 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 11:54:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1404 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 11:54:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 11:54:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17E07199A3; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:54:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20B1019A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:53:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g212pcs00873 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:51:44 -0500 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:51:38 -0500 (EST) What do you say rob, could you suggest how? ;) I would actually be more interested in seeing this work with acme, if nothing but for the novelty of it. Sam ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:43:26 -0500 From: John Puttress To: sah@softcardsystems.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel Sam, Samuel is an integration of Rob Pike's sam editor with Joe Steffen's cscope browser. I believe that both tools are available externally, and I have to believe that Rob's sam has been ported to plan9. Unfortunately, samuel was never released externally, and I cannot legally distribute this source outside of Lucent... and since I am no longer working for Lucent, I wouldn't be able to start the process to release it... if you can find an advocate inside of Lucent, I can direct them to the source. On the otherhand, Rob's sam editor is a very powerful tool on its own, and could be used with cscope to do many of the same searches samuel does, without changing code. I'm sure Rob could suggest how. John Sam Hopkins wrote: > Mr. Puttress, > > There has been discussion on the 9fans mailing > list as of late of an editor named samuel you > wrote some time ago. I'm quite interested in the > source code and getting it to run on plan9. > > Would you be willing to share the source with > me? > > Cheers, > > Sam Hopkins > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: Re: [9fans] samuel > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:04:21 -0500 > From: Jim Kelleman > To: sah@softcardsystems.com > > His home email address is puttress@comcast.net > He did get another job, so he probably won't read your > mail until the evening. > > jim > > Sam Hopkins wrote: > > I am interested in the code. Please forward me his > > home e-mail address. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Sam > > > > On Thursday 28 February 2002 08:19, Jim Kelleman wrote: > > > Mr. Puttress (John) was my supervisor until he retired > > > this past summer. If you're interested in the code, > > > send mail to me privately and I'll give you his home email address. > > > > > > jim > > > > > > rob pike wrote: > > > > > Yes please, release it. I'd love to try samuel. > > > > > > > > I have no idea where the code is. It was done by a Mr. Puttress, > > > > who was working for Ted Kowalski at the time. I don't know where > > > > those people are any more, but they might be at AT&T. > > > > > > > > I looked around the Lucent and AT&T sites with no luck. The code > > > > has never been part of our tree, as far as I know. > > > > > > > > -rob > > ------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 12:38:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 12:38:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 2489 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 12:38:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2484 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 12:38:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 12:38:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FA89199BF; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:38:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from fywss.com (CPE00a024785914.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.112.134.16]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D38199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:37:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from spitfire.fywss.com (steve@localhost) by fywss.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g213a2H08911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:36:06 -0500 Message-Id: <200203010336.g213a2H08911@fywss.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve@fywss.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) Subject: Re: [9fans] OT samfans? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:29:37 EST." <200203010229.g212Tbw03760@panix1.panix.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:36:02 -0500 the sam-fans list doesn't seem to be very active anymore, but have a look at http://hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu:8001/mlists/sam.html markp@panix.com wrote: > hi... speaking of sam, is there still an active samfans list somewhere? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 15:21:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 15:21:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6357 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 15:21:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6353 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 15:21:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 15:21:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D709E19980; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 01:21:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5754C19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 01:20:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 01:20:32 -0500 > What do you say rob, could you suggest how? ;) I don't remember exactly what samuel did, and I'm not much of a fan of syntax-directed editing anyway. Text is text. C is text. Sam is a text editor. Voilà. Sam's `understanding' of C as plain text has never felt like a limitation to me. Sometimes I run grep in another window to figure something out. Use grep -n in *.[ch] and plumb the result and you're probably 90% of the way to samuel. Semantics-directed editing, now that might be something special. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 15:35:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 15:35:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6669 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 15:35:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6665 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 15:35:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 15:35:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01B6D199B7; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 01:35:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cumin.apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5516A199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 01:34:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (hadrian.apnic.net [202.12.29.249]) by cumin.apnic.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g216U9qE028545 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:30:10 +1000 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message from "rob pike" of "Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:20:32 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <14238.1014964446@apnic.net> From: George Michaelson X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.1 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:34:06 +1000 > Semantics-directed editing, now that might be something special. Visual Basick IDE tries to tell you what arguments you want to put into the function it thinks you are trying to write. = I think thats a mis[-take | -mischievious idea | -understanding of what I= want] %PRESS TAB TO COMPLETE% (sigh) -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 17:10:29 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 17:10:29 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 9111 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 17:10:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9107 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 17:10:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 17:10:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2D3819A17; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:10:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc113.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.113]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 190D7199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:09:16 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lknkpmfygkzosvulscwfchqvpo" Message-Id: <20020301080917.190D7199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:09:04 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lknkpmfygkzosvulscwfchqvpo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I changed the constant to use 16K blocks, since I think that would probably be better for speed and disks are big. But if you have problems to recompile it send me a mail and I'll put a binary with 8K blocks for you to download. hth --upas-lknkpmfygkzosvulscwfchqvpo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Feb 28 22:19:23 MET 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19BB819A29; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:19:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A379C199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:18:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22856 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:18:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g1SLHw318548; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:17:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g1SLHxd21267 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:17:59 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202282117.g1SLHxd21267@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:09:07 -0500." <6f1e535b5006a4d39a822acbd26f140e@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <6f1e535b5006a4d39a822acbd26f140e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:17:59 +0100 > > Is the ide-patched fs kernel 'compatible' with the plan9pc one? > > Or do the on-disk structures differ (w.r.t. 'using 16K blocks') > > it's just a compile-time constant; you can recompile, right? Certainly. But with my fs in the state that it is now, I thought I'd try for a change to ask (a) question(s) first, rather than only after the calf has drowned :-) (or however you say this in english). Thanks for confirming that indeed this is a compile time constant, Axel. --upas-lknkpmfygkzosvulscwfchqvpo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 17:26:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 17:26:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 9461 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 17:26:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9457 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 17:26:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 17:26:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D09C419A2D; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:26:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx.opusvl.com (mx.opusvl.com [195.89.181.10]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91B93199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp-176-167.bng.vsnl.net.in ([203.197.176.167] helo=agni) by mx.opusvl.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16giLJ-0002uH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:24:42 +0000 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Message-Id: <20020301135745.706f318b.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.6.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.8; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Default-Delivery: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: martin@mca-ltd.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:57:45 +0530 Hi, On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:22:23 -0500 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > I think 3B2 code deserves its own place in hell. Poring over > the ESS#5 code, someone found that there were lots of > strcmp(p, "f(") == 0 checks (I may have gotten the exact > string wrong but it's close). It took us a while to figure > out why. Apparently, location 0 on the 3b had the 3 bytes > 'f' '(' '\0', someone noticed that when programs blew up > they were pointing to "f(", and the worlds most amazing > kludge for detecting nil pointers was born. > Thank god for Dennis's statement that this wasn't the 5ESS - one replaced our local exchange just earlier this week! :-) (and it broke things... Right now one of our lines is dead. BTW: this is in India, *not* the UK, before people get confused by my signature...) > I heard a rumor yesterday that I'ld like dispelled if > possible. It was that the Linux kernel had to be compiled > with optimization turned on to work. I just tried compiling > my Redhat system without and it crashed but then I > turned optimization on and it still didn't work, so clearly > I'm incompetent. I'm sorry that I can't remember *any* attribution, but I thought it was "common wisdom/knowledge" that gcc only really worked properly with -O turned on. That the optimiser "optimised away the bugs put in by the code generator". This is going back a few years, so it may be things have "improved"? Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 19:20:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 19:20:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 11253 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 19:20:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11249 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 19:20:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 19:20:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1B9F1999B; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:20:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DBAF199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:19:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gjtS-0004HY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87n0xtfoqp.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20020228171926.885C2199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:03:17 GMT anothy@cosym.net writes: > but i think what lucio, and probably most of the people on the > 8c side of the recent 8c/gcc discussion, meant is more like: > adding code to a program increases its probability of > being incorrect, THEREFOR you should be sure any gains > won by this code are greater than this risk. > i don't think anyone here would seriously argue that the > cost/gain decisions should never be made, but rather that the > way the decisions were/are made in gcc is incorrect. Thank you for spelling it out; perhaps I did miss something in the original statement. However, one way to decrease the risk is simply to spend more effort in care and fixing bugs. Merely adding a new component need not increase risk; it simply means that if you want to bring the risk down to where it was before, you have to expend more effort. Now, the GCC maintainers are willing to spend that effort. Even if that's a silly decision and they should be spending their time on other things, they do spend the effort. The real irony here is that of all the pseudo-examples tossed around, there has been only one mention thus far of a compiler designer introducing a willful bug for the sake of optimization, and that's in 8c. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 19:20:21 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 19:20:21 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 11265 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 19:20:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11261 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 19:20:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 19:20:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5EC9199E3; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:20:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7B8519A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:19:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gjtR-0004HS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:04:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87it8hfodp.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:02:08 GMT dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com (David Gordon Hogan) writes: > It certainly knows about strcpy() and memmove() (or > whatever they're #defined to in the headers). So for > instance, > > strcpy(s, "xyzzy"); > > will get replaced with a bunch of instructions to store the > appropriate constant values in s. Actually, that's glibc that's doing the trick, not gcc. As I said, since GCC and glibc are maintained separately, gcc is very careful to stay away from magic related to things like "strcpy". (There is an exception for "main"; some magic happens there, and GCC and glibc worked out carefully how it should happen.) If you look at you can see the glibc magic for strcpy. It boils down to the following: define strcpy(dest, src) \ (__extension__ (__builtin_constant_p (src) \ ? (__string2_1bptr_p (src) && strlen (src) + 1 <= 8 \ ? __strcpy_small (dest, __strcpy_args (src), \ strlen (src) + 1) \ : (char *) memcpy (dest, src, strlen (src) + 1)) \ : strcpy (dest, src))) The only compiler support for this is the __builtin_constant_p function, which is a GCC builtin. (There is a GCC __builtin_memcpy, as well, which does get used for larger strings inside the guts of memcpy, and expands to an inline block memory copy instruction.) The function __strcpy_small (which is invoked in the case where src is the constant "xyzzy") is an inline function that moves the bytes one word at a time, and then the compiler simply optimizes those assignments in the usual way to produce: foo: pushl %ebp movl %esp,%ebp movl s,%eax movl $2054846840,(%eax) movw $121,4(%eax) leave ret From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 19:20:26 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 19:20:26 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 11272 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 19:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11268 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 19:20:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 19:20:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D377C199EC; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:20:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F5CC199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:19:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gjtS-0004He-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87ofi9ibbc.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <21235.1014848082@apnic.net>, <3.0.6.32.20020301085533.009c3bf8@pop3.clear.net.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:03:37 GMT andrew@mbmnz.co.nz (Andrew Simmons) writes: > Good concept. Perhaps we could also have a special section for the words of > the prophet Bushnell, crying out in the wilderness - "The GNU Public > Licence is a jealous Licence, Thou shalt have none other Licence but me" Oh, heck no! The GPL is only one of several rites within the Church of Free Software. We respect all the other rites. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 19:36:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 19:36:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 11525 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 19:36:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11521 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 19:36:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 19:36:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B579C199D5; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:36:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D0A019A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08182 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:35:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g21AZH322792; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:35:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g21AZF907552 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:35:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203011035.g21AZF907552@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:09:04 +0100." <20020301080917.190D7199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20020301080917.190D7199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:35:15 +0100 > I changed the constant to use 16K blocks, since I think that would > probably be better for speed and disks are big. But if you have > problems to recompile it send me a mail and I'll put a binary with > 8K blocks for you to download. Thanks for the offer. Recompiling in itself shouldn't be a problem. After running diff between the original fs and the patched code I was just trying to make sure which differences can be ignored (almost all, I understand now) and which need attention (the block size, which is (solely) determined by RBUFSIZE, correct?) Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 20:39:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 20:39:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 12258 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 20:39:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12254 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 20:39:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 20:39:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6E55199E4; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:39:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust17.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8833D19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:38:01 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020301113801.8833D19995@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:35:39 0000 Given the results of (say) that integer benchmark run that was shown here earlier, my inclination would have been to compare the object code to find out where and how the difference arose, rather than speculating that -O999 had a lot to do with it. Certainly I've found in the past, especially with such microbenchmarks, that small things often count for a lot. As a simple example, one code generator I wrote didn't do as well on a particular sequence as another compiler, even though in some ways the code I generated was better; it turned out that the difference was whether parts of the loop were aligned on cache boundaries. Sometimes particular instructions or instruction sequences that are logically identical differ markedly in speed. As to the repeated assertion that 8c (actually there's a larger family than that) isn't used because of the licence or the code quality, I can observe that I do not use 8c to compile hosted Inferno on anything other than Plan 9, and to my certain knowledge it is for neither reason. It's simply that [8qk]c does not produce code that is easily compatible with the hosting system. Unlike GCC, the compiler does not produce assembly language that can be assembled by the host assembler. The compiler is part of a larger suite that includes a linker that is designed to work with the compiler. The compiler produces a binary file but that is not object code, let alone object code in the obscure Windows and Unix formats. The linker converts only that binary representation to an executable format. You can't link the compiler's output binary with a host linker. Conversely, the linker does not know how to read host object files. It would be very hard work to make it do so (in general), especially with ghastly, subtle instruction encodings as on x86 and 680x0. It operates with a binary representation from the compiler that's set at a higher level than raw machine code with relocation bits. Indeed, there is no relocation information in it. Consequently, the linker cannot link with the system's existing libraries. Of course, the linker could take its current input and produce executable images for the hosting operating system. This is limiting unless you've got the source for all the libraries (and they are written in reasonable C), since you will probably not be able to do graphics (eg, under Windows). The linker does this is in a small way on every platform, where it produces an executable image that is sufficient disguise for this or that bootstrap program to accept it (and even that's not easy). I took a stab at using the suite years ago on AIX and RS6000, partly because I wanted a platform to test the powerpc compiler suite. At the time, there was no documentation I could find that adequately described the AIX COFF format and dynamic linking conventions so that I could generate it. This is, by the way, often true on other platforms. IBM (at the time) was not particularly helpful; not obstructive, just unhelpful. I wasted time guessing and finally gave up, wrote a powerpc interpreter, and used that until my BeBox turned up. I was able to use AIX as a cross-compiling environment, though, for another target system, because the compilers require no special configuration for that: just compile them on the new host. Thus, the best reason not to use the Plan9 suite has nothing to do with licences or code quality: it's that it's typically quite impractical. If I could use them more generally, I certainly would. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 20:58:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 20:58:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 12522 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 20:58:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12518 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 20:58:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 20:58:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4BC719995; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:58:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9A63199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:57:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g21Bn3pZ018189 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:49:03 +0100 Message-ID: <3C7F6CB3.692F6489@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:57:39 +0100 David Gordon Hogan wrote: > I'm just reporting, I don't think it's a particularly good thing. > Like, do we really need that extra .1% speed improvement, > at the expense of code size, compile speed, and transparent > behaviour? I'm with dhog [I can already smell the napalm burning ...] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 21:05:12 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 21:05:12 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 12594 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 21:05:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12590 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 21:05:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 21:05:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDDF619A08; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:05:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E85C41998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:04:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g21BuGpZ018233; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:56:16 +0100 Message-ID: <3C7F6E64.C6B1CC4@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: Fredrik Juhlin Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:04:52 +0100 rob pike wrote: > Sam is atext editor. Voil=C3 . Je suis compl=E8tement d'accord avec toi. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 21:08:12 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 21:08:12 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 12642 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 21:08:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12638 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 21:08:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 21:08:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8E4D19A3F; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:08:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A79B19A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:07:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g21Bx9pZ018274 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:59:09 +0100 Message-ID: <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect References: <87it8hfodp.fsf@becket.becket.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:07:45 +0100 "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > If you look at you can see the glibc magic for > strcpy. It boils down to the following: > > define strcpy(dest, src) \ > (__extension__ (__builtin_constant_p (src) \ > ? (__string2_1bptr_p (src) && strlen (src) + 1 <= 8 \ > ? __strcpy_small (dest, __strcpy_args (src), \ > strlen (src) + 1) \ > : (char *) memcpy (dest, src, strlen (src) + 1)) \ > : strcpy (dest, src))) > s/magic/stupidity/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 1 22:17:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 1 22:17:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 13442 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Mar 2002 22:17:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13438 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 22:17:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 22:17:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D55E519A58; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:17:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from aquamar.escet.urjc.es (plan9.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.205]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 45D89199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:16:38 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs config problem status update (still unsolved) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020301131639.45D89199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:16:36 +0100 : After running diff between the original fs and the patched code : I was just trying to make sure which differences can be ignored : (the block size, which is (solely) determined by RBUFSIZE, correct?) correct, AFAIK From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 00:46:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 00:46:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 14997 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 00:46:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14993 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 00:46:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 00:46:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E91E519A3E; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:46:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8642F19A5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:45:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g21FabpZ019987 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:36:38 +0100 Message-ID: <3C7FA20C.35179D27@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "9fans@cse.psu.edu" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /sys/games/lib/fortunes -- corrections Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:45:16 +0100 I hate programs that chdir on you - Boyd Roberts Oh! It's one of those programs that reads standard output. -boyd From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 01:05:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 01:05:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15146 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 01:05:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15142 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 01:05:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 01:05:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F36C19A55; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 70BF619A54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:04:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Mar 1 11:04:53 EST 2002 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.234.126]) by plan9; Fri Mar 1 11:04:51 EST 2002 Message-ID: <50b59f5636d86f429e34fa95be148715@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:04:50 -0500 I just looked at the cscope documentation. As Rob said, you can get 90% of cscope from grep -n, which is convenient to alias as `g': g% cat g #!/bin/rc flags=() while(! ~ $#* 1 && ~ $1 -*){ flags=($flags $1); shift } switch($#*){ case 0 echo 'usage: g [flags] pattern [files]' >[1=2] exit usage case 1 grep -n $flags -- $1 *.[Cbchm] *.cc *.py *.tex *.ms /dev/null \ |[2] {grep -v '^grep: can''t open \*' >[1=2]; status=''} case * grep -n $flags -- $* /dev/null } The set of files in ``case 1'' changes from person to person. My acme window tags are littered with g this and g '^that'. If you don't mind typing small regular expressions like '^that' and your source code conforms to the ``function names in definitions start at the beginning of the line'' convention, then you can usually get by without cscope. If you want to remember a little more, you could try adding some stuff to g to find function/macro declarations: g% cat h #!/bin/rc rfork e if( ~ $#* 0){ echo 'usage: h name [files]' >[1=2] exit usage } pattern=$1 shift files=($*) if(~ $#files 0) files=(*.h ../port/*.h /sys/include/*.h /sys/include/*/*.h) datadef='^[a-z].*[ ]'^$pattern^'\(' definedef='^#define[ ]+'^$pattern^'[ ]' g '('^$datadef^')|('^$definedef^')' $files \ |[2] {grep -v '^grep: can''t open ' >[1=2]; status=''} g% or data definitions: g% cat def #!/bin/rc rfork e if( ~ $#* 0){ echo 'usage: def name [files]' >[1=2] exit usage } pattern=$1 shift files=($*) g '^[ ]*[a-zA-Z0-9_]+[ a-zA-Z0-9,]*[, ]'^$pattern^'($|[^a-zA-Z0-9_])' $files g% or uses of a particular symbol: g% cat sym #!/bin/rc rfork e if( ~ $#* 0){ echo 'usage: sym name [files]' >[1=2] exit usage } pattern=$1 shift files=($*) g '(^|[^a-zA-Z0-9_])'^$pattern^'($|[^a-zA-Z0-9_])' $files g% I wrote these last three in a hurry last night just for fun, inspired by having seen something similar a while back in a screen shot in the help paper, but I'm not sure whether I'll actually use them or just stick with g. h might be useful since it provides a different set of default files. def and sym seem less useful, since g usually turns up what I want with a minimum of noise. The other nice thing about g instead of cscope-like things is that your searches can be arbitrary regexps rather than whatever cscope happens to provide; for example, how do you g 'dmactl = 0' in cscope? Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 01:16:12 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 01:16:12 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15266 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 01:16:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15262 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 01:16:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 01:16:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A174319A59; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:16:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B2A611998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:15:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3cb3dded4b8cad85cd6887800a46bc25@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:15:53 -0500 This all drives home my position on these matters, which is that general purpose tools that work well together almost always trump special purpose tools such as language-specific ones. And even when they don't, they win overall by being applicable to domains far beyond the reach of the special-purpose ones. Acme can integrate mail rather nicely; samuel never had a chance - even a reason to go - in that direction. You can have your IDEs; I'll take a good text editor any day, even if I have to write my own grep to go along with it. (A reasonable grep, even without a regexp library to hand, can be done in a few dozen lines of C. An exercise for the reader.) -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 01:22:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 01:22:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15310 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 01:22:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15306 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 01:22:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 01:22:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C422219A70; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:22:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F18A019A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16gpWg-0000KA-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:04:54 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: <21235.1014848082@apnic.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:04:50 GMT >A monoatheistical selection of the analects would be more useful > > 'The gospel according to pike' > >being different to: > > 'The apocryphal book of boyd' > >but both having their place. Zen Student: So Master, is the soul immortal or not? Do we survive our bodily death or do we get annihilated? Do we really reincarnate? Does our soul split up into component parts which get recycled, or do we as a single unit enter the body of a biological organism? And do we retain our memories or not? Or is the doctrine of reincarnation false? Is perhaps the christian notion of survival more correct? And if so, do we get bodily resurrected, or does our soul enter a purely platonic spiritual realm? Master: Your breakfast is getting cold. [from: Raymond M. Smullyan, "The Tao is Silent", Harper & Row, 1977] --- oz From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 01:45:23 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 01:45:23 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15525 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 01:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15521 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 01:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 01:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB74819A66; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:45:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 00D9319A5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:44:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.91]) by plan9; Fri Mar 1 11:41:26 EST 2002 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: sape@plan9.bell-labs.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-byhsmhouafjnuhuhdkvoybwfxp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 06:26:07 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-byhsmhouafjnuhuhdkvoybwfxp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On registerizing globals, it seems to be that it's > entirely safe to registerize as long as control flow > doesn't leave your function. I.e., don't expect > registerized globals not to mutate across function > calls. Threaded programmers know what they're getting > themselves into, and ought to be using locks or > condition variables. Locks and condition variables aren't good enough, unless there is a mechanism in the optimizing compiler to link locks to registerized globals (flush before unlock, reread after lock), or a mechanism to tell the compiler to flush before a context switch and reload after one. --upas-byhsmhouafjnuhuhdkvoybwfxp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=message.txt Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Feb 27 17:48:17 EST 2002 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Feb 27 17:48:16 EST 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F2CE19AB4; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:48:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 558B119AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:47:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <28ff9a9c71ca0c354fca1202927d87e2@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:47:15 -0500 This is what I got out of Cliff Young: Do you mean about the general 9fans topic of whether optimizations are dangerous, or about the specific issue of when you can registerize a global? On the former, one person made the rarely-made point that many people write programs that depend on undefined behavior in the C standard, then gripe when their bugs that are masked with -O0 are exposed with -O2. I think this point isn't made often enough. On the other hand, I'm entirely willing to admit that buggy optimizations passes are the reason why people turn optimizations off. It's hard to write optimizations that are as reliable as, say, hardware. Part of this is that the verification technology is way better on the hardware side, and another part is that writing a good optimizing compiler is a never-ending time sink, and it's hard to get users to send you examples that exhibit bugs, and then even harder to track them down. And this in a program that isn't multithreaded. On registerizing globals, it seems to be that it's entirely safe to registerize as long as control flow doesn't leave your function. I.e., don't expect registerized globals not to mutate across function calls. Threaded programmers know what they're getting themselves into, and ought to be using locks or condition variables. --upas-byhsmhouafjnuhuhdkvoybwfxp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 02:03:27 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 02:03:27 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15681 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 02:03:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15677 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:03:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:03:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8F9819A5F; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:03:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CE871998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from fwoom ([80.1.77.139]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020301170210.QEXA9422.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@fwoom> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:02:10 +0000 Message-ID: <018401c1ac0b$df31b8c0$6501a8c0@fwoom> From: "Matt H" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <50b59f5636d86f429e34fa95be148715@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:05:51 -0000 > If you don't mind typing small regular expressions > like '^that' and your source code conforms to the > ``function names in definitions start at the beginning > of the line'' convention, then you can usually get > by without cscope. aha despite this useful convention Boyd wants his to understand Python code not C where such things are not so easily grepped for unless you count grep ^(\t| )?def +that as small :) There's also the added bonus that includes in python come in two styles AND don't include the filename extension from filename import function import filename I did hanker myself after a python class/function browser but was too busy writing the code to start writing the meta code! M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 02:14:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 02:14:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15765 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 02:14:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15761 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:14:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:14:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F10F719A57; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:14:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AE9B199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from cbe.ericsson.se (cbeb1.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.145.68]) by albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with ESMTP id g21HDFZc027837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:13:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from cbe2180 (cbe2180 [130.100.190.180]) by cbe.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/unixcenter-cbe-1.0) with SMTP id g21HDFP20909 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:13:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203011713.g21HDFP20909@cbe.ericsson.se> From: Bengt Kleberg Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: +Bylw8/O/jjEct1mOAo6rQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.3.5 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Bengt Kleberg List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:13:14 +0100 (MET) > Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > From: "Matt H" > aha despite this useful convention Boyd wants his to understand Python code > not C where such things are not so easily grepped for > acme/wily shows its preference for c (style languages) by the ease one can check if/for/while/case/... balance by clicking inside '{'. ex: is this (Erlang) code properly balanced? Fun = fun(X) -> R = case X of 1 -> ok; _ -> fail end, R, end, end, Fun(1). bengt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 02:14:22 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 02:14:22 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15772 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 02:14:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15768 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:14:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:14:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB36619A7C; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:14:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15E0719A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g21HC5pZ023215 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:12:05 +0100 Message-ID: <3C7FB665.65F0FFDE@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) References: <50b59f5636d86f429e34fa95be148715@plan9.bell-labs.com> <018401c1ac0b$df31b8c0$6501a8c0@fwoom> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:12:05 +0100 > aha despite this useful convention Boyd wants his to understand Python code > not C where such things are not so easily grepped for OTOMH I think it's a 'orrible problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 02:22:12 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 02:22:12 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15859 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 02:22:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15855 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:22:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:22:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A618E19A6E; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:22:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 39A3B19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:21:09 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020301172109.39A3B19A6B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:21:02 -0500 // However, one way to decrease the risk is simply to spend more // effort in care and fixing bugs. Merely adding a new component // need not increase risk; it simply means that if you want to bring // the risk down to where it was before, you have to expend more // effort. exactly. but even the gcc folks don't have infinite time/effort. and i'd assert that the time it takes to maintain a fixed bug likelyhood increases nearly geometrically (certainly much more than linearly) with the volume of code. i do not dispute that the gcc maintainers spend alot of effort trying to find and eliminate bugs. i simply don't think they spend enough (because they don't _have_ enough) given the size and complexity of their code. i'm certainly willing to grant that agressively-optimizing compilers like gcc have their place, and i don't think anyone here has disputed that (comments about gcc specifically are a different issue entirely). what i think people (including me) take issue with is your early assertion that 8c (&c.), for _not_ being in that family, is a "cute toy" (your words). i think you're under the impression that people here are somehow making "an argument for why GCC is somehow *bad* for having such optimizations" (again, you). rather, what i think people are arguing is that GCC is bad for including optimizations beyond the maintainer's ability to keep bugs to near-zero. perhaps (as in maybe) the assertion that compiler optimizers explicitly consider it an acceptable tradeoff to introduce potential bugs for probable speed improvements is a bit strong, but the fact remains that that's what they do, implicitly. while i'd be hard pressed to find anyone say that outright, you can certainly tell where a person's priorities lay by where they spend their time. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 02:31:21 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 02:31:21 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15932 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 02:31:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15928 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:31:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:31:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53D5919A73; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:31:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C47E619A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:29:52 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020301172952.C47E619A73@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:29:42 -0500 //acme/wily shows its preference for c (style languages) by // the ease one can check if/for/while/case/... balance by // clicking inside '{'. i don't think this has anything to do with prefering C-style languages. ',",`,[,{,(,< (any others?) all work the same way. i think it's more an issue of using the generality principle again. acme doesn't have to know anything about any language to match { to } and so on; to understand the Fun or case declaration you gave would require special understanding of the language. for example, acme knows nothing of how to highlight an entire case clause, because it knows nothing of the language. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 02:59:30 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 02:59:30 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 16159 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 02:59:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16155 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:59:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:59:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56E6E1998C; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:59:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 120D319A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-177.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.177]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id g21HwFk17042 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:58:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0c90d6a65e36c220673ecba1504e0841@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:58:13 -0500 As far as Python is concerned, I've been happy with g alone. Boyd, what did you want samuel to do besides grep for things? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 08:18:33 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 08:18:33 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 18172 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 08:18:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18168 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 08:18:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 08:18:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 843CC19A76; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:18:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79B9E19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:17:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29009 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:17:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g21NHj305768; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:17:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g21NHhg21095 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:17:45 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203012317.g21NHhg21095@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:16:36 +0100." <20020301131639.45D89199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20020301131639.45D89199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:43 +0100 For those interested: I finally succeeded to solve the problem. I tried the "when all else fails, check the hardware" approach. Turned out that the read/write errors I got on my cache/config disk were caused by a scsi termination problem. As a side effect, turned out that I have two more scsi disks (in an external box) than I thought. These may come in handy to copy nemo's set-up of automatically backing up the worm -- as soon as I have these disks working together with the internal disk. (currently the scsi host adapter card (asus pci-875) doesn't want to see the internal and external disks at the same time, probably due to addressing or termination problems, but this is for after the weekend). Wasted a lot of time, learned a lot, and now it's (almost) time for weekend (after cleaning up the hardware). Axel. (who is _very_ happy to have his fs back!!) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 09:28:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 09:28:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 18998 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 09:28:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18994 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 09:28:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 09:28:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9251419A79; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:28:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C103919A54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29994 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:27:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g220Rf311285; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:27:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g220Reg29501 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:27:40 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203020027.g220Reg29501@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:27:39 +0100 Hmmm... after bringing up fs, cpu/auth and drawterm I get messages 'partwrite' appearing on fs console. I have configured fs such that cache of the worm and an (unused) temp file system share one disk -- and I could have guessed wrong about the partition percentage details -- could that explain these messages? Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 12:20:16 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 12:20:16 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 22535 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 12:20:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22531 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 12:20:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 12:20:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9BB519A83; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:20:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8059219A7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:19:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4356182d9e8d59e2f13563c422eb26b7@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs: partwrite msgs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:19:33 -0500 The partwrite x y message means "you asked to write to block #x but there are only y blocks on this device." In this case, it's likely that your cache is full. You could do a manual dump to make some more room, I think. I'm not 100% sure about that. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 17:56:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 17:56:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 26907 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 17:56:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26903 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 17:56:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 17:56:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0EBB19A64; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:56:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust17.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2EAF919A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:55:36 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs: partwrite msgs From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-akujmjjchuqqzbitugpkkidqeh" Message-Id: <20020302085536.2EAF919A64@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:08 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-akujmjjchuqqzbitugpkkidqeh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you should get a more precise message if the cache is full. similarly if the whole thing fills up. it's more likely that there's something wrong with the configuration. what was it? of course, one advantage of posting it here is that if you lose it again, you can get it from the list! --upas-akujmjjchuqqzbitugpkkidqeh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1015039237:10:16309:1; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 03:20:37 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1016076; 2 Mar 2002 3:20 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9BB519A83; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:20:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8059219A7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:19:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4356182d9e8d59e2f13563c422eb26b7@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs: partwrite msgs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:19:33 -0500 The partwrite x y message means "you asked to write to block #x but there are only y blocks on this device." In this case, it's likely that your cache is full. You could do a manual dump to make some more room, I think. I'm not 100% sure about that. Russ --upas-akujmjjchuqqzbitugpkkidqeh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 2 18:30:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 2 18:30:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27230 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Mar 2002 18:30:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27226 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 18:30:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 18:30:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88467199BE; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 04:30:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust17.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C17C519A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 04:29:21 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs partwrite From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pdznbitghspqvhugppmzqeossi" Message-Id: <20020302092921.C17C519A7F@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:26:54 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pdznbitghspqvhugppmzqeossi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there's another possible cause of the partwrite message, given that you had some trouble with the configuration before. it's trying to use block addresses stored in the file system that are either incorrect (because they were previously corrupted by the errors), or the addresses were correct for the old configuration but now lie beyond the configuration you're now using (ie, it's not quite right yet). --upas-pdznbitghspqvhugppmzqeossi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1015024757:20:08973:0; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:19:17 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2007514; 1 Mar 2002 23:18 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 843CC19A76; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:18:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79B9E19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:17:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29009 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:17:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g21NHj305768; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:17:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g21NHhg21095 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:17:45 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203012317.g21NHhg21095@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:16:36 +0100." <20020301131639.45D89199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20020301131639.45D89199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:43 +0100 For those interested: I finally succeeded to solve the problem. I tried the "when all else fails, check the hardware" approach. Turned out that the read/write errors I got on my cache/config disk were caused by a scsi termination problem. As a side effect, turned out that I have two more scsi disks (in an external box) than I thought. These may come in handy to copy nemo's set-up of automatically backing up the worm -- as soon as I have these disks working together with the internal disk. (currently the scsi host adapter card (asus pci-875) doesn't want to see the internal and external disks at the same time, probably due to addressing or termination problems, but this is for after the weekend). Wasted a lot of time, learned a lot, and now it's (almost) time for weekend (after cleaning up the hardware). Axel. (who is _very_ happy to have his fs back!!) --upas-pdznbitghspqvhugppmzqeossi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Mar 3 11:34:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Mar 3 11:34:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 5887 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Mar 2002 11:34:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5883 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 11:34:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 11:34:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E92419A7F; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:34:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cnm-vra.com (cnm-vra.com [209.76.64.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C50619A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from micah by cnm-vra.com with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16hQyF-0000Pi-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:03:51 -0800 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] OT: sam on XP Message-ID: <20020303000351.C1495@cnm-vra.com> References: <20020227203722.A2370@cnm-vra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gwyn@arl.army.mil on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 04:02:17PM +0000 From: Micah Stetson Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 00:03:51 -0800 > Yeah. You can fix it by selecting Properties for the invoking icon > and setting it up with an earlier environment, e.g. Windows 98 > if using Windows XP Home Edition. Hmmn. This didn't seem to fix it. Using the sam from netlib, the behaviour is the same no matter what the setting in the Compatability tab. Using the one form the Plan 9 updates page, it behave the same except that if I set the compatibility mode to "Windows 95" it gives some error about not being able to initialize. I'll try to get a hold of the exact message next week. But when the setting is not "Windows 95", it starts up and will allow me to use the mouse for a little while (I can open the menu a couple of times or create and place a new window). But after that, or immediately if I try to use the keyboard, the program stops responding at all. Thanks for your help, Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Mar 3 18:27:16 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Mar 3 18:27:16 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 11458 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Mar 2002 18:27:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11454 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 18:27:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 18:27:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84DD619A87; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:27:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0059A199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:26:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA08872 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:26:03 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20020303112601.H6416@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Subject: [9fans] Console locking Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:26:02 +0200 I'm sure I've asked this question before, but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere: Why were the console lock functions removed from the cpu and file server in 3ed Plan 9? The details have been commented out so I assume the decision was not utterly final and I'm curious about the motivation(s) for it. From where I sit, I don't have enough physical security in place to protect the auth and file servers (I also like to think that I don't need that level of protection), so the additional precaution of locking the console would be quite useful. I'm putting it all back for that reason and I wonder if that is a silly thing to do. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 00:14:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 00:14:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 16196 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 00:14:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16192 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 00:14:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 00:14:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D02D19A85; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:14:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7DE6319A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:14:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Console locking From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:13:36 -0500 Feel free to turn it back on. The details are foggy but I believe we turned it off for several reasons, among them that we keep a log file of the console's activity and the password tended to turn up there. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 09:04:52 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 09:04:52 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 19865 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 09:04:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19861 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 09:04:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 09:04:52 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FEC819999; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:04:40 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (dnspac.collyer.net [66.120.90.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1ABC919999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:02:19 -0500 (EST) From: geoff@collyer.net To: 9fans@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020304000219.1ABC919999@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] ether8139.c fix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:00:54 -0800 Line 494, in rtl8139receive(), reads memmove(bp->rp, p, l); but should be memmove(bp->wp, p, l); jmk has vetted this change. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 09:20:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 09:20:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 20243 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 09:20:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20239 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 09:20:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 09:20:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18ABF19A84; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:20:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz (210-55-57-168.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.55.57.168]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 996D519A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([192.168.1.1]) by frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:21:39 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020304132132.009cba10@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2002 00:21:39.0032 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D498D80:01C1C312] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:21:32 +1300 >(A reasonable grep, even without a regexp library to hand, can be done in a few dozen >lines of C. An exercise for the reader.) It's easier to cheat, and look up the answer in TPOP chapter 9. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 12:49:17 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 12:49:17 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25604 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 12:49:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25600 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 12:49:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 12:49:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C80619A88; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:49:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6985819A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:48:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hjQy-0002DO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:46:44 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve@fywss.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) Message-ID: Organization: FYWSS Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 from Bell Labs - Frequently Asked Questions [FAQ] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve@fywss.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:40:15 GMT Archive-name: comp-os/plan9-faq Last-modified: Mar 3, 2002 Posting-Frequency: monthly URL: http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html This document answers frequently asked questions about the third edition of the Plan 9 operating system. The following sections are new or modified recently: * Where can I get more Plan 9 software? * Can I emulate Plan 9 under Unix? * How do I cut and paste with a 2 button mouse? A hypertext version of this FAQ is available on my Plan 9 web page, URL http://www.fywss.com/plan9/ Other sources of information include the newsgroup comp.os.plan9, which is bidirectionally gatewayed to the 9fans mailing list (browse archives at https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/ and http://bio.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/9fans/, or mail 9fans-request@cse.psu.edu to subscribe) and of course the Plan 9 homepage at Bell Labs, URL http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/ If you'd like to discuss the Plan9 license, send mail to plan9-license-discussions@plan9.bell-labs.com. Mailing to this list subscribes you to the list. Please forward any comments or suggestions regarding this FAQ to steve@fywss.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Introduction: * What is Plan 9? * What is in the latest Plan9 release? * What is its relation to other operating systems? * What are its key ideas? * What are the advantages to this approach? Hardware and Software: * What platforms does it run on? * Is anyone working on a port for my system? * Does it support symmetric multiprocessing? * What about applications and tools? * Is there a fortran compiler? * Where can I get more Plan 9 software? * Is it object-oriented? * What about application portability? * What resources does it need? * What GUIs does it support? * How do I cut and paste with a 2 button mouse? * Does Plan 9 have any Unix-like terminal emulators? * What character set does it use? * What about security and user authentication? * How does it communicate with other systems? * Is it suitable for real time control? Installation and Administration: * What PC hardware works well with Plan 9? * How do I Install Plan 9? * It doesn't work for me, how should I troubleshoot? * How do I setup the VGA? * How do I control the services that start at boot time? * How do I setup network services? * How do I shutdown my terminal/cpuserver system? * How do I reboot my system? General Information: * Where did the name come from? * How can I Obtain Plan 9? * How can I get involved? * Where can I get more detailed technical information? * Can I emulate Plan 9 under Unix? * Is the cross product of two vectors a vector? * Are there any Plan 9 user groups? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Introduction: Subject: What is Plan 9? Plan 9 is a new computer operating system and associated utilities. It was built by the Computing Science Research Center of Lucent Technologies Bell Laboratories, the same group that developed Unix, C, and C++. Plan 9 is a distributed system. In the most general configuration, it uses three kinds of components: terminals that sit on users' desks, file servers that store permanent data, and other servers that provide faster CPUs, user authentication, and network gateways. These components are connected by various kinds of networks, including Ethernet, specially-built fiber networks, ordinary modem connections, and ISDN. In typical use, users interact with applications that run either on their terminals or on CPU servers, and the applications get their data from the file servers. The design, however, is highly configurable; it escapes from specific models of networked workstations and central machine service. Subject: What is in the latest Plan9 release? The press release for the third edition of Plan9 is at http://www.bell-labs.com/news/2000/june/7/2.html Among the changes in this release of Plan 9 are a revised kernel, which now has the means to resolve ambiguous file names; an improved graphics environment; an updated command set; and expanded libraries. The system's creators also have installed "plumbing," a new mechanism for passing messages between interactive programs, as part of the user interface. The new release is available for free download under an open source agreement. This is a significant step over previous releases. If you'd like to browse the distribution packages before actually installing, you'll need the tools available at http://www.fywss.com/plan9/unix/ Subject: For History Buffs The first edition of Plan 9 was released in 1993, and was only available to universities. In 1995 the second edition was available for purchase under a shrink-wrap license. The second edition version of this FAQ is archived at http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9v2faq.html Subject: What is its relation to other operating systems? Plan 9 is itself an operating system; it doesn't run as an application under another system. It was written from the ground up and doesn't include other people's code. Although the OS's interface to applications is strongly influenced by the approach of Unix, it's not a replacement for Unix; it is a new design. Subject: What are its key ideas? Plan 9 exploits, as far as possible, three basic technical ideas: first, all the system objects present themselves as named files that are manipulated by read/write operations; second, all these files may exist either locally or remotely, and respond to a standard protocol; third, the file system name space - the set of objects visible to a program - is dynamically and individually adjustable for each of the programs running on a particular machine. The first two of these ideas were foreshadowed in Unix and to a lesser extent in other systems, while the third is new: it allows a new engineering solution to the problems of distributed computing and graphics. Plan 9's approach means that application programs don't need to know where they are running; where, and on what kind of machine, to run a Plan 9 program is an economic decision that doesn't affect the construction of the application itself. Subject: What are the advantages to this approach? Plan 9's approach improves generality and modularity of application design by encouraging servers that make any kind of information appear to users and to applications just like collections of ordinary files. Here are a few examples. The Plan 9 window system (called rio) is small and clean in part because its design is centered on providing a virtual keyboard, mouse, and screen to each of the applications running under it, while using the real keyboard, mouse, and screen supplied by the operating system. That is - besides creating, deleting, and arranging the windows themselves - its job is be a server for certain resources used by its clients. As a side benefit, this approach means that the window system can run recursively in one of its windows, or even on another machine. Plan 9 users do Internet FTP by starting a local program that makes all the files on any FTP server (anywhere on the Internet) appear to be local files. Plan 9 PC users with a DOS/Windows partition on their disk can use the files stored there. ISO 9660 CD-ROMs and tar and cpio tapes all behave as if they were native file systems. The complete I/O behavior and performance of any application can be monitored by running it under a server that sees all its interactions. The debugger can examine a program on another machine even if it is running on a different hardware architecture. Another example is the approach to networks. In Plan 9, each network presents itself as a set of files for connection creation, I/O, and control. A common semantic core for the operations is agreed upon, together with a general server for translating human-readable addresses to network-specific ones. As a result, applications don't care which kind of network (TCP/IP, ISDN, modem) they are using. In fact, applications don't even know whether the network they are using is physically attached to the machine the application is running on: the network interface files can be imported from another machine. Hardware and Software: Subject: What platforms does it run on? The Plan 9 kernel and applications are highly portable. Plan 9 runs on four major machine architectures: Intel 386/486/Pentium, MIPS, Alpha, and PowerPC. Data structures and protocols are designed for distributed computing on machines of diverse design. Except for necessarily machine-dependent parts of the kernel, the compilers, and a few libraries, there is a single source representation for everything. To find out whether Plan 9 supports your hardware, read The Various Ports and Supported PC Hardware. Subject: Is anyone working on a port for my system? Perhaps ... let us know. Subject: Does it support symmetric multiprocessing? Yes. The SGI Challenge series of multiprocessors and multi processor Pentiums are supported. Be warned that Intel-based SMP systems are notoriously fickle in conforming to the Multiprocessor Specification and often some head-scratching is required when things don't just work. The system has been run on machines ranging from dual Pentium 90's up to quad Xeon 400's and the 8 processor Pentium Pro Axil system. By default, as it comes out the box, the release has SMP operation disabled by an option in the plan9.ini config file. Subject: What about applications and tools? Plan 9 comes with its own compilers for C and other languages, together with all the commands and program-development tools originally pioneered in the Unix environment. It also provides newly designed software. Acid is a programmable debugger that understands multiple-process programs, and the programs it is debugging may be running on a hardware platform different from its own. Acme is a new user interface in which any word on the screen can be interpreted as a command by clicking on it, and any string can specify a file to be displayed. Subject: Is there a fortran compiler? No, plan9 does not have a fortran compiler. If you have fortran programs you want to run, you can try using the f2c (fortran to C) converter available at ftp://netlib.bell-labs.com/netlib/f2c/ Subject: Where can I get more Plan 9 software? Charles Forsyth has the original and still the longest list of software http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/index.html Russ Cox has cd players, mp3 player and a wide variety of other small tools http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~rsc/plan9.html Tad Hunt can help you balance your bank account, boot your laptop and listen to music http://csh-east.org/~tad/plan9/ Nemo (Francisco Ballesteros) has a collection of drivers and utilities http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/usr/nemo/9.html Kenji Arisawa's ftp site ftp://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/ Boyd Roberts writes rc scripts when not ranting on 9fans http://home.fr.inter.net/boyd/code/repo/ There's a native Python port at http://home.fr.inter.net/boyd/code/plan9/pythonR3.tgz [based on Russ' port to 9P2000] The wiki User-contributed Software page is useful too http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/35/index.html Subject: Is it object-oriented? No, not in the conventional sense. It is written in a strict dialect of ISO/ANSI C. In a wider sense, its general design of making all its `objects' look like files to which one talks in a well-defined protocol shows a related approach. Subject: What about application portability? Plan 9 comes with a library that makes it easy to import POSIX-conforming applications. There is also a library that emulates the Berkeley socket interface. Subject: What resources does it need? As might be expected, the answer depends on what you want to do. The kernel, the window system, and the basic applications will run comfortably on a PC with 8MB of memory. On the other hand, the system can grow. The installation at Bell Laboratories includes multiprocessor SGI Challenge and Pentium machines as CPU servers, and a 350GB Sony WORM disk jukebox for the file server. Subject: What GUIs does it support? The standard interface doesn't use icons or drag-n-drop; Plan 9 people tend to be text-oriented. But the window system, the editor, and the general feel are very mousy, very point-and-click: Plan 9 windows are much more than a bunch of glass TTYs. The system supports the graphics primitives and libraries of basic software for building GUIs. A screenshot is available at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/screenshot.html Subject: How do I cut and paste with a 2 button mouse? Plan 9 really works well only with a three-button mouse. In the meantime, Shift-Right-button will simulate a middle button, but that is inadequate for Acme's chording. Subject: Does Plan 9 have any Unix-like terminal emulators? The Plan 9 window system doesn't obey any inline cursor controls, since none of the native applications use cursor-addressing. All cursor control in rio, acme and sam is via the mouse. To see some excellent articles on this important and divisive user interface issue read http://www.asktog.com/readerMail/1999-12ReaderMail.html. If you want to get from Plan9 to Unix systems, you can run /bin/vt in one of your windows, telnet/rlogin to Unix, and set the term/TERM variable accordingly on the Unix end. See vt(1) for more details; note that vt(1) can emulate a VT100 VT220 or ANSI terminal. Subject: What character set does it use? The character set is Unicode, the 16-bit set unified with the ISO 10646 standard for representing languages used throughout the world. The system and its utilities support Unicode using a byte-stream representation (called UTF-8) that is compatible with ASCII. On Plan 9, one may grep for Cyrillic strings in a file with a Japanese name and see the results appear correctly on the terminal. Subject: What about security and user authentication? Plan 9's authentication design is akin to that of MIT's Kerberos. Passwords are never sent over networks; instead encrypted tickets are obtained from an authentication server. It doesn't have the concept of `set UID' programs. The file server doesn't run user programs, and except at its own console, it doesn't allow access to protected files except by authenticated owners. The concept of a special `root' user is gone. Subject: How does it communicate with other systems? The distribution includes a u9fs server that runs on Unix-compatible systems and understands the native Plan 9 remote file protocol, so that file systems of Unix machines may be imported into Plan 9. It also includes an NFS-compatible server that runs on Plan 9, so that Plan 9 file systems may be accessed from other systems that support NFS. It includes the full suite of Internet protocols (telnet, rlogin, ftp). Subject: Is it suitable for real time control? No, it is not. It is a general purpose system, without an interrupt priority scheme or real scheduler. Installation and Administration: Subject: What PC hardware works well with Plan 9? If you don't want to spend time fiddling with and swapping PC hardware, you may prefer to buy hardware that is in use within Bell Labs, see Supported PC Hardware. The biggest source of problems is getting the VGA configured on PC terminals. For best performance and functionality, it is recommended that you use a card that can run at 16 bits per pixel or greater, and with hardware-accelerated graphics support; currently only the Mach64 and S3 Virge are supported to this extent. The best buy today seems to be the ATI 8Meg Xpert 98 cards. For a cpuserver or fileserver any old card that can do CGA is fine. Subject: How do I Install Plan 9? The installation is designed to be run from a PC. 1. Read "Supported PC hardware" to ensure your PC meets the requirements. 2. Back up your system. 3. Make sure you've backed up your system. 4. Read "Installing the Plan 9 Distribution" at URL http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/install.html 5. Check the errata page at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/errata.html for problems and fixes found since the distribution was made. 6. Here are some more questions that have been answered on the 9fans list: IP configuration ndb/cs will set the sysname if you setup an appropriate entry in /lib/ndb/local. You must specify an 'ether=' entry, and the address should be all lower case. If all goes well, ip/ipconfig will then configure IP. Name Service If you have having problems, first check that ndb/dns is running. It needs to be started in /rc/bin/termrc or /rc/bin/cpurc. Also note that only fully qualified names are supported, and there isn't a separate resolver. Binding and Mounting Devices Note that # is the shell comment character, so you must enclose it in single quotes. For example: bind -a '#R6' /dev Auth Server When booting a cpuserver without an auth server, if you give 0.1.0.0 as the auth server address instead the cpu server's own address, you won't have to wait for it to timeout. Subject: It doesn't work for me, how should I troubleshoot? If you are having having SCSI problems, check your cables and terminators. this is generally the single largest cause of weird SCSI problems. Active terminators are best. If you run external cables you need to get high quality ones. Also, don't crank of the speed on the card. Subject: How do I setup the VGA? If the VGA doesn't work, read the last couple sections (Setting Up and Troubleshooting) of "Installing the Plan 9 Distribution" You will have to find out more about the card so you can configure it. The relevant manuals are: vga(3), vgadb(6), vga(8), and 9load(8). If your VGA card is not supported, you could try http://mapage.noos.fr/philippe.anel/ for Matrox G200 G400 and G450 drivers by Philippe Anel or see http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/39/index.html for Riva TNT drivers by Nicholas Waples. Put debug=1 (1st line) in plan9.ini and try again. It may not be of much help but will allow to ask a more specific question. Subject: How do I control the services that start at boot time? This is controlled by shell scripts, that are roughly equivalent to the /etc/rc files on Unix: /rc/bin/termrc for terminals /rc/bin/cpurc for cpu servers See cpurc(8) for more details. Subject: How do I setup network services? For UDP services, you must start them up in the appropriate cpurc(8) file. For TCP or IL services, you must use the listen(8) daemon. Subject: How do I shutdown my terminal/cpuserver system? If you booted from a real fileserver, you can just turn it off. If you are using kfs, you must halt the disks manually by typing disk/kfscmd halt at a prompt and waiting for ``kfs: file system halted'' to appear on the screen. Not doing this means the disk might not be in a consistent state or modified data might not have been written out yet; not halting the disk forces the long wait at the ``kfs...'' when you boot the next time while kfs checks the disk. Subject: How do I reboot my system? The system can be rebooted by typing ^T^Tr (two control-T's followed by 'r'). Cpu servers can be rebooted by typing ^P on the console. See the cons(3) manual for more details. General Information: Subject: Where did the name come from? It was chosen in the Bell Labs tradition of selecting names that make marketeers wince. The developers also wished to pay homage to the famous film, "Plan 9 From Outer Space". Subject: How can I Obtain Plan 9? The Plan 9 release is available for free download at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/download.html It includes source of the kernel, libraries, and commands for all supported architectures. It also includes complete binaries for the x86 architecture. Subject: How can I get involved? The best way to learn about the system is to write something that other people in the Plan 9 user community could use, or to port the system to new platforms. Subject: Where can I get more detailed technical information? The Bell Labs site plan9.bell-labs.com stores a wealth of information about the system. The manual pages are at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/man/ For auxiliary documentation, see http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/ A Plan 9 wiki is maintained by enthusiasts at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/1/ Subject: Are there any Plan 9 user groups? There is one in Austin, Texas. See http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18/index.html It's open to anyone, even if you don't live in Austin. Subject: Is the cross product of two vectors a vector? No, it is not, and the fact that people treat it as one is the problem. The *geometric object* that is the closest thing to the c.p. is a skew tensor (practically the same as wedge product), which (only) in 3D has Cartesian components that resemble those of a vector, *except* that this pseudo-vector *flips* under reflection (unlike a genuine vector). Unfortunately, physicists have been trained to express Maxwell's laws as a relationship between a genuine vector (field) and a c.p., which means that that expression of those laws *changes* under reflection, something that physicists are *not* taught and which appears to have been overlooked in the analysis of the (nonconservation of) parity experiment. I had to quote Douglas Gwyn verbatim on this, because I have no *ucking clue what he's talking about -- Steve Subject: Can I emulate Plan 9 under Unix? Ron Minnich has implemented private name spaces for Linux and FreeBSD. You can get documentation and source code from http://www.acl.lanl.gov/~rminnich/ Several Plan 9 inspired applications are available for Unix systems. The sam editor is available from ftp://netlib.bell-labs.com/netlib/research/sam.shar.gz There is also a Windows 95/NT version of Sam, currently distributed in binary form only, available from ftp://netlib.bell-labs.com/netlib/research/sam.exe Comments and bug reports can be sent to seanq@research.bell-labs.com Wily is an acme lookalike by Gary Capell. See http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz/wily/ Mark H. Wilkinson's 9libs package of Plan 9 emulation libraries for Unix is probably the easiest-to-install distribution of sam and wily. You can get it from http://www.netlib.org/research/9libs/ A free re-implementation of the rc shell is available from http://www.star.le.ac.uk/~tjg/rc/ 9wm is David Hogan's lightweight X window manager in the style of 8½/rio. It was once available from ftp://ftp.cs.su.oz.au/dhog/9wm/ but is being moved to a new home. Comments to dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com 9term is an 8½ terminal emulator by Matty Farrow, matty@cs.su.oz.au, available from ftp://ftp.cs.su.oz.au/matty/unicode/ In the same directory, you'll find a collection of Unicode fonts that can be used with 9term, sam and wily. 9menu is a simple program by Arnold Robbins, arnold@skeeve.com, that allows you to create X menus from the shell, where each menu item will run a command. 9menu is intended for use with 9wm, but can be used with any other window manager. It is available from ftp://ftp.freefriends.org/arnold/Source/9menu-1.5.shar.gz Copyright © 1995 Lucent Technologies. All rights reserved. -- Steve Kotsopoulos steve@fywss.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 15:52:16 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 15:52:16 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 30808 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 15:52:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30804 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 15:52:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 15:52:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AEB3199E8; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:52:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9514199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:51:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from research.bell-labs.com (ool-18bd0d-117.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.13.117]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GSF0042VSDVW4@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:51:33 -0500 (EST) From: Sean Quinlan Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3C831986.12135F97@research.bell-labs.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:51:50 -0500 I suspect most compilers will not registerize a global over a function call. The main problem with registerizing globals is that it might be aliased by a function paramter. This has nothing to do with the issue of threads. In plan9 the following code produces different output depending on whether optimisation is on or off. #include #include int x = 1; void foo(int *p) { int i; for(i=0; i<10; i++) { *p = i; x += x+i; } } void main(void) { foo(&x); print("x = %d\n", x); } one could claim this is a bug; Ken said he never gets caught by real code - at least code we write. Many of the optimising C compiliers I have used will assume in code such as #include "stdio.h" int foo(int *p, short *s) { int i, j; j = 0; for(i=0; i<100; i++) { j += *p + *s; *p = j; } return j; } that *p and *s do not alias each other and thus the reference to *s in the loop can be moved out of the loop and placed in a register. Since I am not a language lawyer, I don't know what the C standard says about this, but this type of optimisation does break a lot of poorly written code. Since gcc is C by definition, I had a look what it does. Naturally, they have this optimisation, and an option to turn it on or off -fstrict-aliasing -- turns it on -fno-strict-aliasing -- turns it off Naturally, -O2 may enable this optimisation depending on the version of the compiler that is used. From what I can gather from a quick search of the internet, this optimisation got turned on by defualt with -O2, tons of code broke including the linux kernel. Next release turns it off, then all the broken programs add -fno-strict-aliasing to their Makefiles, then after sufficent time, the option is turned back on by default... From what I gather, gcc 3.0 and up have this option on by default with -O2, though I do not have access to a system that runs this compiler and thus have not actually checked this is the case. This is the type of problem that forces the linux world to exactly match the version of the compiler with the version of the code they are compiling... sape@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > > On registerizing globals, it seems to be that it's > > entirely safe to registerize as long as control flow > > doesn't leave your function. I.e., don't expect > > registerized globals not to mutate across function > > calls. Threaded programmers know what they're getting > > themselves into, and ought to be using locks or > > condition variables. > > Locks and condition variables aren't good enough, unless there > is a mechanism in the optimizing compiler to link locks to > registerized globals (flush before unlock, reread after lock), > or a mechanism to tell the compiler to flush before a context > switch and reload after one. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: [9fans] (no subject) > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:47:15 -0500 > From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com > Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > This is what I got out of Cliff Young: > > Do you mean about the general 9fans topic of > whether optimizations are dangerous, or about > the specific issue of when you can registerize > a global? > > On the former, one person made the rarely-made point > that many people write programs that depend on undefined > behavior in the C standard, then gripe when their bugs > that are masked with -O0 are exposed with -O2. I think > this point isn't made often enough. > > On the other hand, I'm entirely willing to admit that > buggy optimizations passes are the reason why people > turn optimizations off. It's hard to write optimizations > that are as reliable as, say, hardware. Part of this is > that the verification technology is way better on the > hardware side, and another part is that writing a > good optimizing compiler is a never-ending time sink, > and it's hard to get users to send you examples that > exhibit bugs, and then even harder to track them down. > And this in a program that isn't multithreaded. > > On registerizing globals, it seems to be that it's > entirely safe to registerize as long as control flow > doesn't leave your function. I.e., don't expect > registerized globals not to mutate across function > calls. Threaded programmers know what they're getting > themselves into, and ought to be using locks or > condition variables. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 19:19:49 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 19:19:49 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 3094 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 19:19:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3090 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:19:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:19:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C115C19A27; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:19:39 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F91819A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hpNO-0006KR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:07:26 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87elj1v3nd.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <20020301135745.706f318b.martin@mca-ltd.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:07:09 GMT martin@mca-ltd.com (Martin C.Atkins) writes: > I'm sorry that I can't remember *any* attribution, but I thought it > was "common wisdom/knowledge" that gcc only really worked properly > with -O turned on. That the optimiser "optimised away the bugs put in > by the code generator". This is going back a few years, so it may be > things have "improved"? One of the dangerous things about FUD is that people continue to repeat it, when it was never true, without attribution except as "common wisdom". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 19:19:55 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 19:19:55 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 3102 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 19:19:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3098 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:19:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:19:54 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E80519A6B; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:19:44 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06D8019991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:18:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hpKi-00067D-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:04:40 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87664dv3gj.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: , <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:04:25 GMT boyd@strakt.com (Boyd Roberts) writes: > s/magic/stupidity/ The amazing thing is that you think performance is hugely important, so much so, that you claim run time of compilation is the most important thing. Then when another system does something faster, you call it "stupid". Puhleez. If your real opinion is just "Whatever Plan 9 does is brilliant, and anything different is stupid", then say it, instead of pretending to have reasoned opinions. For my part, Plan 9 does some things very well, and other things less well. I enjoy learning from the successes of Plan 9, but it's a real shame that many people here have a kind of allergic reaction to learning from the successes of anything else. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 19:20:09 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 19:20:09 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 3113 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 19:20:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3109 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:20:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:20:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD06619A0B; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:20:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70BBE19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:19:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hpKi-000677-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:04:40 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: David Rubin Message-ID: <3C7FEE1F.1FBB0338@hotmail.com> Organization: Lucent Technologies, Columbus, Ohio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <50b59f5636d86f429e34fa95be148715@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:04:11 GMT Russ Cox wrote: > > I just looked at the cscope documentation. > As Rob said, you can get 90% of cscope from > grep -n, which is convenient to alias as `g': Of course, cscope is a lot faster than grep when you have thousands of files in your tree... david -- If 91 were prime, it would be a counterexample to your conjecture. -- Bruce Wheeler From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 19:21:09 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 19:21:09 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 3150 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 19:21:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3146 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:21:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:21:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E375619A67; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:21:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAF0D199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:20:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hpKi-000671-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:04:40 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "AMSRL-CI-CN" Message-ID: Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: <3cb3dded4b8cad85cd6887800a46bc25@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:04:01 GMT "rob pike" wrote in message news:3cb3dded4b8cad85cd6887800a46bc25@plan9.bell-labs.com... > This all drives home my position on these matters, which is that > general purpose tools that work well together almost always trump > special purpose tools such as language-specific ones. And even when > they don't, they win overall by being applicable to domains far beyond > the reach of the special-purpose ones. Indeed! I think the main reason Unix was such a hit was that it provided a relatively complete and well integrated text-file tool kit along with means to conveniently combine the tools. Many years back I posted to sci.crypt an example of the use of those tools in (intermediate level) cryptanalysis. I can't seem to find it via DejaNews, though. I did find a posting where I gave examples of how one's own small custom programs can be effectively combined with the standard toolkit (typo corrected in this reprint): $ # Find anagram of NABAAN: $ anabet < /usr/pub/words > analist $ echo NABAAN | anabet # also illustrates what anabet does AAABNN NABAAN $ grep '^AAABNN ' < analist AAABNN BANANA $ # Find keyword corresponding to transposition key 3 1 8 2 7 6 5 4: $ transkey < /usr/pub/words > keylist $ grep '^3 1 8 2 7 6 5 4:' < keylist 3 1 8 2 7 6 5 4: CARBOLIC From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 19:28:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 19:28:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 3316 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 19:28:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3309 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:28:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:28:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 501E819991; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:28:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34E9C199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hpKj-00067J-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:04:41 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Gaute B Strokkenes Message-ID: <4aadtqj28c.fsf@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk> Organization: The Church of Emacs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20020226150031.A2A4B19A1C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9/linux/fbsd compiler shootout Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:04:36 GMT On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, andrey@lanl.gov wrote: >> The compile time using for the BSD/2.95/no test looks *really* low; >> are we sure about that number? It's a very strange outlier, isn't >> it? I'll mostly ignore that one, because it is *such* a surprise; >> GCC isn't normally thought to be that fast, but hey, maybe it >> really is. >> > > several more tests yield exactly the same results -- FBSD 4.5 w/ > gcc2.95 takes about 18 seconds to compile. > >> A total curiosity is that running the Linux binaries under >> emulation in BSD is *faster* than running the native BSD binaries. >> It's hard to imagine that the BSD team specially optimized that >> case, does anyone have any knowledge or guesses? >> > > gcc 3.0 on FBSD was locally compiled and installed (as was noted in > the explanations), had it been taken from a binary package it _must_ > have been much faster (all we did was 'make; make install')... Read the GCC installation manual: you're supposed to say "make bootstrap", not just "make". IIRC if you just use plain "make" what you get is a compiler that is built with the system default compiler. If you use "make bootstrap", then GCC is first built with the system compiler, then that compiler is used to compile GCC again. Then that compiler builds GCC a third and final time. The last two compilers are compared byte-for-byte; they should be equal since GCC should produce identical output independent of what compiler it is built with. -- Gaute Strokkenes http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~gs234/ I joined scientology at a garage sale!! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 19:28:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 19:28:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 3323 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 19:28:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3319 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:28:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:28:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4C9B19A6D; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:28:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9BFA19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:27:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hpJy-000648-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:03:54 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "ozan s. yigit" Message-ID: <4da3d9af.0203011031.27e56b4@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <87pu2qy1sk.fsf@becket.becket.net>, , <87bse9h7ni.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] splitting the compiler Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:03:49 GMT Thomas Bushnell: > Hrm, I retargeted GCC (back in the days of version 1) for the old > Clipper chip in about a month. > > Thomas is that after you figured out how to use RTL? were you around people who knew and you could ask? in the version 1 days, adults were reduced to tears with the fumes coming from RTL :) sometimes free costs so much... oz --- a technology is indistinguishable from | electric: oz@cs.yorku.ca its implementation. -- Marshall Rose | or ozan.yigit@sun.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 19:32:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 19:32:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 3373 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 19:32:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3369 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:32:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:32:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E129019A72; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:32:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C8BF19A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:31:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hpON-0006TN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:08:27 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87adtpv3lg.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20020301172109.39A3B19A6B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:07:31 GMT anothy@cosym.net writes: > i do not dispute that the gcc maintainers spend alot of effort > trying to find and eliminate bugs. i simply don't think they spend > enough (because they don't _have_ enough) given the size and > complexity of their code. Really? So far I know of one optimization bug in the 8c compiler and none in GCC. Do you have some you know about but aren't reporting? > i think you're under the impression that people here are somehow > making "an argument for why GCC is somehow *bad* for having > such optimizations" (again, you). rather, what i think people are > arguing is that GCC is bad for including optimizations beyond the > maintainer's ability to keep bugs to near-zero. If people had some actual claims about how many bugs they think there are, that would be useful. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 20:45:44 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 20:45:44 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 4327 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 20:45:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4323 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 20:45:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 20:45:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E97419A95; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:45:37 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D46B19A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:43:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from cbe.ericsson.se (cbeb1.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.145.68]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.11.0/8.11.0/WIREfire-1.3) with ESMTP id g24BhPB16384 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:43:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from cbe2180 (cbe2180 [130.100.190.180]) by cbe.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/unixcenter-cbe-1.0) with SMTP id g24BhOP24002 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:43:24 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203041143.g24BhOP24002@cbe.ericsson.se> From: Bengt Kleberg Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: XTqxzNNYvG5DFyynz4TgUQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.3.5 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Bengt Kleberg List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:43:24 +0100 (MET) > Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) > From: anothy@cosym.net ...deleted > i don't think this has anything to do with prefering C-style > languages. ',",`,[,{,(,< (any others?) all work the same way. i i belive that acme, et al, gets away with (ie, nobody thinks it needs it) having no language mode (or whatever this thing is called that makes an editor programming language sensitive) just because it is used by programmers codeing in c(-style) language(s). if plan9/inferno switched to beeing implemented in something-else, that did not use ',",`,[,{,(,<, i strongly belive (IMHO, ok?) that a language mode would be developed. bengt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 22:38:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 22:38:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 5656 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 22:38:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5652 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 22:38:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 22:38:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B119219A1C; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:38:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F160019A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:37:18 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020304133718.F160019A7D@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:35:49 -0500 // So far I know of one optimization bug in the 8c compiler // and none in GCC. Do you have some you know about but // aren't reporting? being a very infrequent user of gcc, and having no emotional energy invested it its status, i've not been keeping lists of any strange doings, nor even looking into them fully to determine whether they're bugs or no. however, a quick google turns up lots and lots of responses for various queries on gcc optimizer bugs. further, curious as to what the official bug repository for gcc bugs is, i wandered over to gcc.gnu.org and noticed they have an gnats db there. a quick search for non-closed optim. bugs returns 156 results (the majority of which are in the open state). that says nothing of previous ones which have been fixed. given the probability of duplication of bug reports or people simply being wrong, i imagine the real number is much lower than 156, but substantially above 1. i am not an expert on the formal definitions of C, but the code rob (from rsc?) posted earlier certainly seemed reasonable (i'm refering to the x=sqrt(3.0) stuff). can someone confirm? ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 22:57:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 22:57:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 5987 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 22:57:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5983 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 22:57:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 22:57:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D0B719A74; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:57:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx.opusvl.com (mx.opusvl.com [195.89.181.10]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F114A199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp-177-22.bng.vsnl.net.in ([203.197.177.22] helo=agni) by mx.opusvl.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hsx2-000107-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:56:29 +0000 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Message-Id: <20020304192954.33a0cb67.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <87elj1v3nd.fsf@becket.becket.net> References: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20020301135745.706f318b.martin@mca-ltd.com> <87elj1v3nd.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.6.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.8; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Default-Delivery: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: martin@mca-ltd.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:29:54 +0530 On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:07:09 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > martin@mca-ltd.com (Martin C.Atkins) writes: > > > I'm sorry that I can't remember *any* attribution, but I thought it > > was "common wisdom/knowledge" that gcc only really worked properly > > with -O turned on. That the optimiser "optimised away the bugs put in > > by the code generator". This is going back a few years, so it may be > > things have "improved"? > > One of the dangerous things about FUD is that people continue to > repeat it, when it was never true, without attribution except as > "common wisdom". That's as may be. But it never occurred to me that this might be FUD (until you kindly pointed it out). Rather, I thought it was a curiosity about the way that gcc's code generation worked (and not *inherently* incorrect, so long as one didn't regard compiling without -O as "compiling"), and - more importantly - a hint as to how to avoid unnecessary pain (to me, as a user of gcc, at that time, and still now). (After all, I'm still really a Linux lurker. Also, having lost most of yesterday trying to get Plan 9 to install on a new machine without destroying it's partition table (I tried 3 times before giving up and zeroing the disk), I'm not too well disposed to Plan9 right now. Although to be fair, it's working great now..... - BTW: What *does* "panic iunlock" mean (I think that was it), apart from "You're stuffed - go and hit your head on a nearby wall, and then start over..."? First time I thought it was because I had done something silly, but the second time I *hadn't* done the silly thing.... Still, at least the good side effect is that I no-longer have Windows on the machine :-) ) BTW: what's the Plan9 equivalent of Unix's "find . -name ... -print"? (always a good fallback for a beginner :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 23:02:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 23:02:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6059 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 23:02:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6055 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 23:02:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 23:02:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3863719A7D; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:02:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1E0A819A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:01:09 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020304140109.1E0A819A7A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:01:05 -0500 // ...what's the Plan9 equivalent of Unix's "find . -name ... -print"? this should almost be in the FAQ. try "du -a . | grep foo". i've also found "grep foo `{du -a . | awk '{print $2}'" to be very useful. variations can reproduce most or all of find. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 23:02:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 23:02:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6067 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 23:02:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6063 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 23:02:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 23:02:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51FA219A89; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:02:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0EDE5199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from HWTPC ([135.104.53.98]) by plan9; Mon Mar 4 09:01:21 EST 2002 From: "Howard Trickey" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200203041143.g24BhOP24002@cbe.ericsson.se> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:02:08 -0500 You may be right, but the language mode would not have been done here at Bell Labs (IMHO, ok, but I know the guys involved), nor would it likely to have been "bought back" if developed outside. I just did a bunch of programming in Erlang, using sam, and didn't feel the need for a language mode. And no, it isn't because I don't know what such a mode could do ... unfortunately, for various reasons, my nearly full-time work these days is living inside Microsoft's Visual Studio, doing C++, with a singing-dancing C++ mode that mostly just gets in the way. - Howard Trickey Bengt Kleberg: > if plan9/inferno switched to beeing implemented in something-else, that > did not use ',",`,[,{,(,<, i strongly belive (IMHO, ok?) that a > language mode would be developed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 23:03:09 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 23:03:09 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6075 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 23:03:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6071 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 23:03:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 23:03:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84A5319A8A; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:03:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F04DF199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:02:40 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-itfgkiasxuwczjfbnxszjqpzez" Message-Id: <20020304140240.F04DF199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:02:41 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-itfgkiasxuwczjfbnxszjqpzez Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit du -a . | grep ... panic iunlock can be caused by two things: if(l->key == 0) print("iunlock: not locked: pc %luX\n", getcallerpc(&l)); if(!l->isilock) print("iunlock of lock: pc %lux, held by %lux\n", getcallerpc(&l), l->pc); i.e. iunlocking something not locked at all, or iunlocking something that was locked. lock = spin lock ilock = disable interrupts and spin lock the real interest is the pc printed out, because it tells you where the iunlock() was called from. You can consult the kernel image to find out where this is. --upas-itfgkiasxuwczjfbnxszjqpzez Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Mon Mar 4 13:49:45 GMT 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BB72199BB; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:57:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx.opusvl.com (mx.opusvl.com [195.89.181.10]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F114A199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp-177-22.bng.vsnl.net.in ([203.197.177.22] helo=agni) by mx.opusvl.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hsx2-000107-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:56:29 +0000 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Message-Id: <20020304192954.33a0cb67.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <87elj1v3nd.fsf@becket.becket.net> References: <65cb447dbaf5f9da39d670e4f0596c79@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20020301135745.706f318b.martin@mca-ltd.com> <87elj1v3nd.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.6.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.8; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Default-Delivery: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: martin@mca-ltd.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:29:54 +0530 On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:07:09 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > martin@mca-ltd.com (Martin C.Atkins) writes: > > > I'm sorry that I can't remember *any* attribution, but I thought it > > was "common wisdom/knowledge" that gcc only really worked properly > > with -O turned on. That the optimiser "optimised away the bugs put in > > by the code generator". This is going back a few years, so it may be > > things have "improved"? > > One of the dangerous things about FUD is that people continue to > repeat it, when it was never true, without attribution except as > "common wisdom". That's as may be. But it never occurred to me that this might be FUD (until you kindly pointed it out). Rather, I thought it was a curiosity about the way that gcc's code generation worked (and not *inherently* incorrect, so long as one didn't regard compiling without -O as "compiling"), and - more importantly - a hint as to how to avoid unnecessary pain (to me, as a user of gcc, at that time, and still now). (After all, I'm still really a Linux lurker. Also, having lost most of yesterday trying to get Plan 9 to install on a new machine without destroying it's partition table (I tried 3 times before giving up and zeroing the disk), I'm not too well disposed to Plan9 right now. Although to be fair, it's working great now..... - BTW: What *does* "panic iunlock" mean (I think that was it), apart from "You're stuffed - go and hit your head on a nearby wall, and then start over..."? First time I thought it was because I had done something silly, but the second time I *hadn't* done the silly thing.... Still, at least the good side effect is that I no-longer have Windows on the machine :-) ) BTW: what's the Plan9 equivalent of Unix's "find . -name ... -print"? (always a good fallback for a beginner :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. --upas-itfgkiasxuwczjfbnxszjqpzez-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 23:34:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 23:34:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6441 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 23:34:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6437 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 23:34:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 23:34:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBEB519A8E; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:34:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B38E119A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:33:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Mar 4 09:33:22 EST 2002 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.234.126]) by plan9; Mon Mar 4 09:33:21 EST 2002 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:33:20 -0500 > i am not an expert on the formal definitions of C, but the code > rob (from rsc?) posted earlier certainly seemed reasonable (i'm > refering to the x=sqrt(3.0) stuff). can someone confirm? it's hard to fault gcc for that. gcc was compiling for an environment where double was the highest internal precision, and got tripped up because the linux guys set the default internal precision to long double. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Mar 4 23:42:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Mar 4 23:42:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6516 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Mar 2002 23:42:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6512 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 23:42:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 23:42:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E42A519A9D; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:42:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9F47E19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Mar 4 09:41:29 EST 2002 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.234.126]) by plan9; Mon Mar 4 09:41:28 EST 2002 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:27 -0500 > if plan9/inferno switched to beeing implemented in something-else, that > did not use ',",`,[,{,(,<, i strongly belive (IMHO, ok?) that a > language mode would be developed. what terrible languages are you envisioning that would be so difficult for humans to read as to _require_ the use of external help? the language #!/bin/rc cat $* | tr '^@' '()' | lisp would benefit from ^-@ matching, but aside from contrived examples i can't understand what more you want your text editor to do. russ The various ML dialects share the same flaw in their syntax. They lack a simple property I call editor friendliness. An editor friendly language has the property that a simple calculation is all that is needed to locate the beginning of an expression when one is at the end of an expression. As you can guess, Lisp is a very editor friendly language. Because of this fact, an experienced Emacs user realizes nearly all of the benefits of structure based editing without suffering from its restrictions. - John D. Ramsdell The various Lisp dialects share the same flaw in their syntax. They lack a simple property I call human friendliness. A human friendly language has the property that syntactic constructs are different enough from one another that a simple visual inspection is all that is needed to locate the beginning of an expression when one is at the end of an expression. As you can guess, Lisp is a very human unfriendly language. Because of this fact, an experienced Lisp user realizes that it is virtually impossible to write Lisp programs of any size without substantial mechanical assistance. - Andrew Koenig From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 00:26:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 00:26:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6920 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 00:26:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6916 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 00:26:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 00:26:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0E1C19A7E; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:26:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69E4219A7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:25:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cbe.ericsson.se (cbeb1.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.145.68]) by albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with ESMTP id g24FOhZc027356 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:24:43 +0100 (MET) Received: from cbe2180 (cbe2180 [130.100.190.180]) by cbe.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/unixcenter-cbe-1.0) with SMTP id g24FOhP14640 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:24:43 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203041524.g24FOhP14640@cbe.ericsson.se> From: Bengt Kleberg Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 1meApf67sJhodDJ88NOX1g== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.3.5 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Bengt Kleberg List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:24:43 +0100 (MET) > what terrible languages are you envisioning that would be so > difficult for humans to read as to _require_ the use of external > help? the language > > #!/bin/rc > cat $* | tr '^@' '()' | lisp > > would benefit from ^-@ matching, but aside from contrived examples > i can't understand what more you want your text editor to do. I would like for the text editor to tell me (with a single click) where the start/end of a construction (be it function/if/while/...) is, if i am at the end/start. sort of balancing the parantheses(sp?). this is only neccessary if the language is not always visually balanced, like a few languages are (ex: python). > The various ML dialects share the same flaw in their syntax. > They lack a simple property I call editor friendliness. An editor > friendly language has the property that a simple calculation > is all that is needed to locate the beginning of an expression when > one is at the end of an expression. > > As you can guess, Lisp is a very editor friendly language. > Because of this fact, an experienced Emacs user realizes > nearly all of the benefits of structure based editing without > suffering from its restrictions. > - John D. Ramsdell > > The various Lisp dialects share the same flaw in their syntax. > They lack a simple property I call human friendliness. A human > friendly language has the property that syntactic constructs are > different enough from one another that a simple visual inspection > is all that is needed to locate the beginning of an expression when > one is at the end of an expression. > > As you can guess, Lisp is a very human unfriendly language. > Because of this fact, an experienced Lisp user realizes that it > is virtually impossible to write Lisp programs of any size without > substantial mechanical assistance. > - Andrew Koenig > if the 'human friendly language' allows free formatting of 'syntactic constructs' it will be _very_ difficult for 'a simple visual inspection' to _always_ 'locate the beginning of an expression when one is at the end of an expression'. IMHO. (btw, i normally write lisp programs with the expectation of having 'substantial mechanical assistance' in saveing/running them. it is therefore prefectly ok, i think, to assume the presence of such assistance.) bengt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 02:14:30 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 02:14:30 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 7828 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 02:14:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7824 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 02:14:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 02:14:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F00619A8D; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:14:22 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.133]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31AE519A96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:12:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from research.bell-labs.com (ool-18bd0d165.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.13.117]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GSG001QAL1CQV@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:10:24 -0500 (EST) From: Sean Quinlan Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3C83AABC.47C50393@research.bell-labs.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com> <87664dv3gj.fsf@becket.becket.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:11:24 -0500 You are confusing We kept it simple and as a result it goes fast with We made it massively more complex to squeeze out a little more performance. "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > > boyd@strakt.com (Boyd Roberts) writes: > > > s/magic/stupidity/ > > The amazing thing is that you think performance is hugely important, > so much so, that you claim run time of compilation is the most > important thing. Then when another system does something faster, you > call it "stupid". Puhleez. If your real opinion is just "Whatever > Plan 9 does is brilliant, and anything different is stupid", then say > it, instead of pretending to have reasoned opinions. > > For my part, Plan 9 does some things very well, and other things less > well. I enjoy learning from the successes of Plan 9, but it's a real > shame that many people here have a kind of allergic reaction to > learning from the successes of anything else. > > Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 02:19:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 02:19:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 7859 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 02:19:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7855 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 02:19:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 02:19:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 220A319A96; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:19:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0821A19A96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hvtr-0007Ui-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:05:23 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87bse4cmic.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: , <87bse9h7ni.fsf@becket.becket.net>, <4da3d9af.0203011031.27e56b4@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] splitting the compiler Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:04:21 GMT "ozan s. yigit" writes: > is that after you figured out how to use RTL? were you around people who > knew and you could ask? in the version 1 days, adults were reduced to tears > with the fumes coming from RTL :) sometimes free costs so much... No, I just read the internals manual an looked at examples in the code From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 03:38:29 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 03:38:29 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 8419 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 03:38:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8415 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 03:38:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 03:38:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C1BF19A9F; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:38:22 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F30F19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16hx7s-0002U5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:23:56 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: , <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com>, <87664dv3gj.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:23:42 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > ... but it's a real > shame that many people here have a kind of allergic reaction to > learning from the successes of anything else. so far as we can tell, the only thing you wish we would learn has to do with license paperwork. i've been using it since b2 release in 87, so i'm curious what else you have in mind. oz From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 06:50:17 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 06:50:17 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 9853 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 06:50:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9849 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 06:50:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 06:50:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BEFA19AA2; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:50:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from home.jenwa.org (h002078cfb834.ne.mediaone.net [65.96.129.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 977CA19AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:49:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by home.jenwa.org (Postfix, from userid 12264) id D22C27A07B; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from tabula-rasa.jenwa.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by home.jenwa.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECA027D43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:25:28 -0500 (EST) From: chad To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:49:30 GMT." <20020228104930.297c3bf6.matt@proweb.co.uk> References: <181b9e858518e43368953c1050365780@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20020227125118.N26250@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <87elj6zgsl.fsf@becket.becket.net> <20020228104930.297c3bf6.matt@proweb.co.uk> X-Mailer: mh-e 6.0; nmh 1.0.4; Emacs 21.2 Message-Id: <20020301132528.D22C27A07B@home.jenwa.org> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:25:22 -0500 > From: Matt H > ... > Would you seriously have me believe that if plan9 went public domain > tomorrow then by the end of March it would have 100 more users, 10 > even! I doubt even Thomas G Bushnell would be using it! Without much effort, I can think of about half a dozen people at/around MIT who aren't using Plan 9 right now who would be by the end of March if `plan9 went public domain tomorrow'. I suspect that the actual number is much higher, actually, but that many of them would stop after a few months. None of the people I'm thinking of are what I'll call `hard line' free software bigots. Some of them simply chose to spend their time on more `open' projects, while some of them simply cannot accept the ``I give up my right to legal recourse if Lucent ever does anything bad to me'' clause. It's natural and laudable to try to defend something that you like and care for, but let's be honest here - even the core Plan 9 guys wish that the license were `better'. ``It is an imperfect world in which we live.'' While license arguments have become common in some venues, and I'm sure that they'll erupt here now and then, I (seriously!) suggest something like: ``Yeah, the license isn't the best right now, but it's been improving over time, and you can hardly blame `beleaguered' companies like Lucent for being a little slow to come around. We're using what we have now, and in a year or two hoping that it'll get better still again.'' thanks, chad From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 08:09:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 08:09:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 10414 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 08:09:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10410 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 08:09:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 08:09:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 120B719A80; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:09:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D4D199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:08:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from po (pm3-1-05.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.5]) by idiom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21651 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:05:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by po id 16hzmo-0000WS-00; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:14:22 -0800 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lucio- In-Reply-To: References: <20020109050805.9394F19A70@mail.cse.psu.edu> <20020109073250.H12098@cackle.proxima.alt.za> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:14:22 -0800 I'm responding to an old message. on Jan 10, Bruce Janson wrote: >Two of the limitations of dump are its coarse granularity and its >arbitrary timing. To eliminate these one could extend dump by >allowing anybody to force (and annotate) a dump snapshot. I believe that the current implementation of dump snapshotting bogs down the fileserver so it would be annoying to run it when people are doing work and that is why dump snapshotting runs in the wee hours at Bell Labs. (Of course, it could be redone if that was deemed valuable.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 09:14:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 09:14:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 11223 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 09:14:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11219 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 09:14:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 09:14:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFFE819A93; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:14:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [66.120.90.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CF6AA19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:13:26 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lucio- From: geoff@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020305001326.CF6AA19A9C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:10:43 -0800 It depends what you mean by ``bogs down the fileserver''. Depending on how many dirty blocks are in the mag disk cache, triggering a dump to worm disks makes the file server completely unresponsive to requests from the network for anywhere from a few seconds to a couple of minutes while the copy-on-write fork of the file system is performed. Thereafter, it can take quite a while (depending on the speed of worm writing) to complete the dump, but performance of the file server is essentially unaffected. So warning people in advance of a dump would give them time to take a short break and get coffee or coke without feeling annoyed. I have occasionally wished for a more direct means of notifcation than mail, perhaps the ability to write a short message after the time in a vismon window or pop up an acme window containing a brief message. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 10:44:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 10:44:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 13345 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 10:44:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13341 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 10:44:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 10:44:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDF0B19AA5; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:44:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 81DA919AA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:43:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Mar 4 20:42:14 EST 2002 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.234.126]) by plan9; Mon Mar 4 20:42:12 EST 2002 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lucio- From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:42:11 -0500 > I believe that the current implementation of dump snapshotting > bogs down the fileserver so it would be annoying to run it > when people are doing work and that is why dump snapshotting > runs in the wee hours at Bell Labs. Another advantage (I don't know whether it is a reason) is that 5am is a time when things are reasonably quiet. The files as they are at 5am is more likely to be something I want to remember than what they are at 3pm, say, when things are typically in flux. If anyone cares, here's the elapsed times for the last week of dumps: mon 2:32 tue 3:22 wed 3:48 thu 2:58 fri 3:48 sat 4:12 sun 2:29 mon 2:22 As you say, it would not be hard at all to use something like sequence numbers to make the dump faster. Perhaps that is what NetApp does. I'm still not convinced that allowing anyone to force a dump really helps with the revision control problem though. Personally, I like the fact that the dump takes a few minutes. When I get on a bad sleep schedule, the dump is usually enough to convince me to stop what I'm doing and go to bed. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 11:59:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 11:59:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15349 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 11:59:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15345 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 11:59:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 11:59:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 493B219AA4; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:59:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sire.mail.pas.earthlink.net (sire.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFC5319AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:58:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209-239-199-237.oak.jps.net ([209.239.199.237] helo=jps.net) by sire.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16i5A9-0005I0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:58:50 -0800 Message-ID: <3C84352E.D360A910@jps.net> From: kim kubik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19-4.asl i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] OT: sam on XP References: <20020227203722.A2370@cnm-vra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:02:06 -0800 Micah Stetson wrote: > > I know this isn't exactly Plan 9 related, but has anyone > here used the Windows version of sam on Windows XP? > if I remember, it > seems like the host part dies if I type anything in the > command window. The terminal part stays running, but > you can't do anything with it and all of the menu items > are parenthesized. I've had similar problem just recently when they "upgraded" the Compaq at work running NT. I start sam from the DOS cmd line with a filename, the file can be opened in sam, the menus, cut/paste, etc work, until I click in the command window. Then everything freezes. As far as I know there were no OS software changes (the system boots off the network - I'm not even supposed to know there is a C:\ drive) and as this is a contract job that was supposed to end a month ago I just chalked it up to MS garbage and didn't think I should bother mentioning it. Funny thing is, every once in a while sam does work, but there is nothing consistent I can see as to why. Wish I could help . . . - kim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 18:51:30 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 18:51:30 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25068 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 18:51:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25064 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 18:51:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 18:51:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE5A319AB0; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:51:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 678BA19AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iBUJ-0005fJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:44:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <878z97wr1h.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com>, <87664dv3gj.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:41:37 GMT ozan s yigit writes: > so far as we can tell, the only thing you wish we would learn has to do > with license paperwork. i've been using it since b2 release in 87, so > i'm curious what else you have in mind. The referenced thread was about more efficient ways of implementing strcpy than the trivial one. I'm sure there are more than that one. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 18:51:30 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 18:51:30 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25074 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 18:51:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25070 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 18:51:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 18:51:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B70E19A75; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:51:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18D5219AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iBUJ-0005fD-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:44:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C844A15.FC687ACD@null.net> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200203041524.g24FOhP14640@cbe.ericsson.se> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:41:22 GMT Bengt Kleberg wrote: > I would like for the text editor to tell me (with a single click) where > the start/end of a construction (be it function/if/while/...) is, if i > am at the end/start. sort of balancing the parantheses(sp?). > this is only neccessary if the language is not always visually balanced, like > a few languages are (ex: python). I have recently run into the following style: #if some_condition /* { */ .... #else /* } comment about new condition { */ .... #endif /* } */ This turns out to be very helpful for brace-matching editors like sam (when double-clicking on the "inside" of a brace). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 18:56:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 18:56:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25142 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 18:56:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25138 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 18:56:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 18:56:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D63FE19AAD; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:56:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc113.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.113]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EEF2519AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:55:07 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wotmukhxvhmsgpnqlygzffkgih" Message-Id: <20020305095507.EEF2519AAA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:54:51 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wotmukhxvhmsgpnqlygzffkgih Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If there are more efficient (but still correct) ways, just replace the implementation of strcpy. And let the programs using strcpy call strcpy without a preprocessor mess. cf. The Practice of Programming (A "must" read). hth --upas-wotmukhxvhmsgpnqlygzffkgih Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Mar 5 10:51:26 MET 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE5A319AB0; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:51:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 678BA19AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iBUJ-0005fJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:44:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <878z97wr1h.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com>, <87664dv3gj.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:41:37 GMT ozan s yigit writes: > so far as we can tell, the only thing you wish we would learn has to do > with license paperwork. i've been using it since b2 release in 87, so > i'm curious what else you have in mind. The referenced thread was about more efficient ways of implementing strcpy than the trivial one. I'm sure there are more than that one. Thomas --upas-wotmukhxvhmsgpnqlygzffkgih-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 19:07:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 19:07:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25275 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 19:07:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25271 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:07:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:07:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAAF319AAF; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:07:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cumin.apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C18F19AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:05:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (hadrian.apnic.net [202.12.29.249]) by cumin.apnic.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g25A0Hc2017685 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:00:17 +1000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:41:22 +0000." <3C844A15.FC687ACD@null.net> Message-ID: <15012.1015322661@apnic.net> From: George Michaelson X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.1 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:04:21 +1000 > I have recently run into the following style: > > #if some_condition /* { */ > .... > #else /* } comment about new condition { */ > .... > #endif /* } */ > > This turns out to be very helpful for brace-matching editors like sam > (when double-clicking on the "inside" of a brace). > "I'm sorry, you have a non-matching brace in your comment. compilation halted at line xxxxx." god, I miss the PL/1 computed goto sometimes... -George -- George Michaelson | APNIC Email: ggm@apnic.net | PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064 Phone: +61 7 3858 3100 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 | http://www.apnic.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 19:08:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 19:08:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25317 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 19:08:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25313 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:08:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:08:12 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3669F19AB6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:08:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B14FE19AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:07:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iBUI-0005f1-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:44:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Don Message-ID: <8f6cf824.0203041242.3d93810e@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20020304000219.1ABC919999@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:40:55 GMT > Line 494, in rtl8139receive(), reads > > memmove(bp->rp, p, l); > but should be > memmove(bp->wp, p, l); > > jmk has vetted this change. Good deal, but, which bug does this fix fix? Don (north_) http://www.7f.no-ip.com/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 19:10:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 19:10:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25373 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 19:10:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25369 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:10:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:10:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A57E919AC2; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:10:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7646C19AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iBUI-0005ev-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:44:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: <3cb3dded4b8cad85cd6887800a46bc25@plan9.bell-labs.com>, Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:40:41 GMT "AMSRL-CI-CN" writes: > Many years back I posted to sci.crypt an example of the use of > those tools in (intermediate level) cryptanalysis. I can't seem to > find it via DejaNews, though. google. search for message id 35E79AA5.602796A4@null.net oz From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 19:10:22 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 19:10:22 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25380 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 19:10:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25376 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B32D19AC9; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:10:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E153199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iBUI-0005f7-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:44:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C84493A.3E516651@null.net> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200203041143.g24BhOP24002@cbe.ericsson.se>, Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:41:11 GMT Howard Trickey wrote: > my nearly full-time work these days is living inside Microsoft's > Visual Studio, doing C++, with a singing-dancing C++ mode that mostly > just gets in the way. My "favorite" is the language-savvy automatic formatter that doesn't let you write approximate outlines then go back and clean them up, but insists on immediately fleshing out everything while you're typing. To some extent MS Word does this (by default in its newest editions); ever try to highlight exactly a particular word or phrase only to have the "smart" editor suck in the adjacent spaces as well? I think in the long run time would have been saved by not having such "help". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 19:10:28 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 19:10:28 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25388 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 19:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25384 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:10:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16C2919AB5; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:10:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44134199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:09:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iBUJ-0005fP-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:44:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "ozan s. yigit" Message-ID: <4da3d9af.0203042219.50978166@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] gcc bug qed [plan or side effect] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:41:50 GMT in case thomas cares, bug in the gcc optimizer for 3.0.4 under i386. sparc version (egcs 2.91) does not have the bug. took about half an hour (a few tries) to show that it exists in several versions of the compiler. it will take longer to find out exactly where, and why. i could not care less, so i'll leave this as an exercise to those who need it. here is the clue: paranoia in netlib, by kahan. optimizer fails the floting point tests. done. yes, the bug is seen in g77 3.0.4 as well, given -O. oz --- fabricati diem, pvnc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 19:15:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 19:15:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25458 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 19:15:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25454 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:15:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:15:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2257519AB7; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:15:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 791D2199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:14:06 +0100 (MET) Received: from copernicus.cs.utwente.nl by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.10.2+Sun/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id g25AE4315274; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:14:05 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by copernicus.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id g25AE3c24107 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:14:03 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200203051014.g25AE3c24107@copernicus.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: copernicus.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs partwrite In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:26:54." <20020302092921.C17C519A7F@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20020302092921.C17C519A7F@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:14:02 +0100 (Replying to more than one message at the same time.) > you should get a more precise message if the cache is full. > similarly if the whole thing fills up. yes, I understand. So far I just got a lot of partwrite messages, all mentioning only two blocks numbers that are 'beyond the horizon' (if there are more, they drowned in the message about those two). > it's more likely that there's something wrong with the > configuration. what was it? I'm now typing from memory (got details down on paper and on the disk -- indeed I succeeded on browsing the disk using xd/od on the data partition) filsys main cp(w0)0.25f(w1.<0-1>.0) filsys dump o filsys temp p(w0)25.75 > of course, one advantage of posting it here is that if > you lose it again, you can get it from the list! agreed! :-) (even from my own outbox) > there's another possible cause of the partwrite message, given > that you had some trouble with the configuration before. > it's trying to use block addresses stored in the file system that > are either incorrect (because they were previously corrupted > by the errors), or the addresses were correct for the old > configuration but now lie beyond the configuration you're now > using (ie, it's not quite right yet). I guess that it is the second thing. Problem is that I'm not sure about the partition percentages for w0, only about order. So far I guessed 25% cache 75% temp (which are also among the notes I made during the original config, but due to the coprruption problems caused by the misconfigured scsi termination I think I played a bit with the config until I happened to get something that just worked.) 'temp' is probably only reamed when I made the original config, and never used after that. Among the sysinit messages I did not see anything about not finding temp (but I still have to look at the source to see how much sanity checks sysinit does on a non-cw filsys). I tried looking at the disk with xd (and od on lunix), in the hope of finding traces of the ream of temp, (superblock etc., as I did find for the cache and (on another disk) for the worm) -- assuming those traces are there to be found -- assuming it does leave traces similar to those for the cache and worm (still need to check the source) but getting so far on the disk seemed to take more time than I was willing to wait for so far, even combined with a 'grep' on the xd/od output. I tried playing with tail to start the xd/od around halfway on the disk, but 1) I realised I should make more exact calculations of where to start looking 2) if I try to give a huge offset, I get a message of (linux) tail that the offset cannot be represented. Or probably I could take the fs portdat.h data structures (basically just for: block = data + tag), and built my own dedicated tag searcher to look for temp superblock etc, maybe that's an idea... Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 19:24:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 19:24:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25578 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 19:24:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25574 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:24:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:24:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4088919AC5; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:24:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mx.opusvl.com (mx.opusvl.com [195.89.181.10]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CB0019AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 05:23:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp-176-61.bng.vsnl.net.in ([203.197.176.61] helo=agni) by mx.opusvl.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iC6p-0005wU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:23:52 +0000 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Message-Id: <20020305094617.73bc6fb1.martin@mca-ltd.com> In-Reply-To: <20020304140240.F04DF199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20020304140240.F04DF199B3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mission Critical Applications Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.6.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.8; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Default-Delivery: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: martin@mca-ltd.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:46:17 +0530 Thanks Nigel, On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:02:41 0000 nigel@9fs.org wrote: > du -a . | grep ... Great hack! Thanks also to the other who pointed this out. > > panic iunlock can be caused by two things: > > if(l->key == 0) > print("iunlock: not locked: pc %luX\n", getcallerpc(&l)); > if(!l->isilock) > print("iunlock of lock: pc %lux, held by %lux\n", getcallerpc(&l), l->pc); > Actually I don't remember a pc - is this because it happened before Plan9 proper got going? I.e. long before the "root is from..." question. (Possibly at about the "using sdC0!..." line), but I don't remember for sure. As I remember the message was simply: panic iunlock I suppose the real fustration was that there didn't seem to be anything I could do about it, short of re-installing from scratch (and having the installer screw up my partition table - again!) > i.e. iunlocking something not locked at all, or iunlocking something > that was locked. > > lock = spin lock > ilock = disable interrupts and spin lock > > the real interest is the pc printed out, because it tells you where the iunlock() > was called from. You can consult the kernel image to find out where this > is. > > Anyway, like I said... It's working great now! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Mar 5 21:55:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Mar 5 21:55:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27486 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Mar 2002 21:55:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27482 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 21:55:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 21:55:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E7AD19ABF; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.snellwilcox.com (mail.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CC66119ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:54:37 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Received: from ccMail by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.52.01.1) id 1893340736; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:54:47 +0000 Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re[2]: [9fans] fs partwrite Message-Id: <1893340736@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <1893340736-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:51:50 +0000 >...Or probably I could take the fs portdat.h data structures (basically >just for: block = data + tag), and built my own dedicated tag searcher >to look for temp superblock etc, maybe that's an idea... Brings back memories... rebuilding a Unix sys-V database disk that had been burnt (The machine went on fire!) It had vital data for a haulage firm (Where all the goods and trucks where); the backup QIC tapes had been stored on top of the machine. Marvelous fun :-) -Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 00:27:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 00:27:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29069 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 00:27:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29065 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 00:27:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 00:27:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B3619AA9; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:27:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 40FD819AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:26:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47f44a52080aa0389afe9a45c25c2cd3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:26:46 -0500 On Tue Mar 5 05:08:09 EST 2002, north_@www.7f.no-ip.com wrote: > > Line 494, in rtl8139receive(), reads > > > > memmove(bp->rp, p, l); > > but should be > > memmove(bp->wp, p, l); > > > > jmk has vetted this change. > Good deal, but, which bug does this fix fix? > Don (north_) > http://www.7f.no-ip.com/ it fixes corrupting every packet which causes wrap-around of the 64Kb receive buffer. it was fixed a long time ago but i didn't realise the driver had been released without the fix. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 01:24:16 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 01:24:16 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29614 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 01:24:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29610 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 01:24:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 01:24:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 768E919AB9; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9257F19AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:23:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iHQ2-0003zN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Serge Gagnon Message-ID: Organization: Bell Sympatico References: <20020225144618.8D32C19A56@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] vga prob after install Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:00:40 GMT Ok, thanks. I`ll try it and I ll let you know how it was. Thank you -- Serge Gagnon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 01:24:22 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 01:24:22 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29621 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 01:24:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29617 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 01:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 01:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2536219AC3; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23C7019AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:23:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iHQ2-0003zT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Serge Gagnon Message-ID: Organization: Bell Sympatico References: <20020225144618.8D32C19A56@mail.cse.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] vga prob after install Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:00:52 GMT The link doesn t works but I can ping the server... bad adress. Just resend the good adress if you can. Thank you -- Serge Gagnon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 02:08:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 02:08:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 30151 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30147 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B41C19AAA; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:08:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD6DB19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07649 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:07:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200203051707.MAA07649@math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lucio- In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:10:43 PST." <20020305001326.CF6AA19A9C@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:07:44 -0500 > So warning people in advance of a dump would give them time to take a > short break and get coffee or coke without feeling annoyed. I have > occasionally wished for a more direct means of notifcation than mail, > perhaps the ability to write a short message after the time in a > vismon window or pop up an acme window containing a brief message. I decided at one point that I missed the Unix write command, so sat down and wrote writefs, which could be used for something like this. Brucee chastised me by saying, ``couldn't that be done in like, an hour?'' Well, yeah.... I have the code somewhere in my directory. Maybe I'll clean it up and post it when I get some of the myriad things off of my plate. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 02:19:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 02:19:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 30234 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 02:19:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30230 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 02:19:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 02:19:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EC2B19A98; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:19:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2106B19988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:18:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iIPO-0005Zw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:07:26 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Roger Peppe Message-ID: <1015347755.16748.0.nnrp-08.d4f0e306@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: Re: [9fans] mail/news and other fundamentals Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:07:11 GMT r0@lokmail.net wrote: > i'm relatively new to plan9 - i'm > wondering how plan9 users access mail > and this newsgroup and prehaps some > other services from plan9. is plan9 > your primary working environment? i use acme mail, and use charles forsyth's old rin newsreader to read news when i have occasion to. plan 9 is indeed my primary working environment. (and bloody lovely it is too). to my shame, i do actually dual-boot Windows on my new laptop. accessing Windows is both enabling and incredibly frustrating: enabling because i can suddenly access all the media and use all the programs that the world is talking about, but frustrating because of the way Windows makes it so hard to do anything out of the ordinary. cheers, rog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 02:33:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 02:33:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 30358 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 02:33:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30354 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 02:33:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 02:33:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FACB19988; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:33:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust17.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F27F419AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:32:10 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020305173210.F27F419AB3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:29:41 0000 plain panic iunlock is produced by the bootstrap 9load if it attempts to unlock something that wasn't locked. it could be ether; it could be ata/scsi. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 03:28:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 03:28:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 30837 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 03:28:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30832 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 03:28:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 03:28:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A47BA19ACF; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:28:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68F9C19AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:27:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iJKe-0007FG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:06:36 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "ozan s. yigit" Message-ID: <4da3d9af.0203050952.3162f890@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] more on gcc bug qed [plan or side effect] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:06:01 GMT at the expense of wasting more eyeball time on this topic, here are more details. i don't know nor care where the bug is. the program used to find the bug has been around for a long time, and is intended to test floating point implementations. it is available from netlib or search for paranoia and kahan. [btw, kahan paper on java's floating point is a masterpiece, and should be required reading for anyone interested in either topic] the failure of the gcc optimizer was established on a freebsd system with freshly installed 3.0.4 compiler. similar errors should pop up on any intel platform eg. a fresh redhat installation with gcc 2.96: gcc -o paranoia paranoia.c [paranoia output elided] The number of DEFECTs discovered = 1. The number of FLAWs discovered = 1. gcc -O2 -o paranoia paranoia.c [paranoia output elided] The number of FAILUREs encountered = 4. The number of SERIOUS DEFECTs discovered = 4. The number of DEFECTs discovered = 2. The number of FLAWs discovered = 2. the bug does not exist for the sparc compiler[s]. i have not tried other architectures. oz --- careful - we don't want to learn from this! -- calvin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 04:29:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 04:29:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 31298 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 04:29:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31294 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 04:29:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 04:29:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1A64199B3; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:29:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc113.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.113]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A8D0419A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:28:35 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020305192835.A8D0419A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] a copy of plan9 as of Jun 2000 anyone? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:28:34 +0100 Hi, a story too long to tell here, but, anyone has a tar or a wrap of the plan9 /sys/src/9 directory as of Jun 2000? I lost mine in the only crash I had on my file server, (noticed it now) and now I need one. I tried downloading an old `full update' from the updates page but it looks like the July 2000 full update archive does not contain the whole /sys/src/9 stuff. Is my web browser downloading it badly, and in any case, anyone still has a bundle/tar of this thing? thanks in any case From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 04:41:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 04:41:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 31385 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 04:41:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31381 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 04:41:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 04:41:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79A9519ABD; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:41:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88FB619A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:40:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from softnet (IDENT:sah@softnet [192.168.1.5]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g25JfIs16743 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:41:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Sam Hopkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] a copy of plan9 as of Jun 2000 anyone? X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <20020305192835.A8D0419A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20020305192835.A8D0419A33@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02030510484804.28236@softnet> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: sah@softcardsystems.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:48:48 -0500 I can't imagine anyone still having a snapshot from that long ago. It's not like anyone around here keeps a daily capture of the filesystem or anything. sam On Tuesday 05 March 2002 14:28, you wrote: > Hi, > > a story too long to tell here, but, anyone has a tar or a wrap > of the plan9 /sys/src/9 directory as of Jun 2000? I lost mine in the only > crash I had on my file server, (noticed it now) > and now I need one. I tried downloading an > old `full update' from the updates page but it looks like the July 2000 > full update archive does not contain the whole /sys/src/9 stuff. > > Is my web browser downloading it badly, and in any case, anyone still has > a bundle/tar of this thing? > > thanks in any case From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 04:48:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 04:48:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 31427 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 04:48:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31423 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 04:48:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 04:48:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B80719AB1; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:48:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1671119988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-189.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.189]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id g25JlHk20004 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:47:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <96d1dc46cd12a4912c607f0b967c84c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] a copy of plan9 as of Jun 2000 anyone? From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:47:16 -0500 A full update is different from a full package. We did releases on: 133467503 Jun 17 2000 plan9.20000617 133467503 Jul 29 2000 plan9.20000729 137854505 Oct 14 2000 plan9.20001014 Send me private mail and we can figure out how to get the right pieces to you. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 06:04:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 06:04:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 31825 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 06:04:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31821 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 06:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 06:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DA171998C; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:04:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cheltenham.cs.arizona.edu (cheltenham.CS.Arizona.EDU [192.12.69.60]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4516019988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from lectura.CS.Arizona.EDU (lectura.CS.Arizona.EDU [192.12.69.186]) by cheltenham.cs.arizona.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g25L5RD03318 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ksskumar@localhost) by lectura.CS.Arizona.EDU (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g25L3G603832 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:03:16 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: lectura.CS.Arizona.EDU: ksskumar owned process doing -bs From: Siva Saran Kumar Kollipara To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Venti availability?? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:03:16 -0700 (MST) hi, is the venti source code available ? has it been incorporated into plan 9 latest verion ? thanx Siva From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 07:33:25 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 07:33:25 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 32412 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 07:33:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32407 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 07:33:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 07:33:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0431199A3; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:33:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from acl.lanl.gov (plan9.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7B2BA19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:32:55 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020305223255.7B2BA19992@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] 1st post Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:35:41 -0700 let me be the first to point out that slashdot is running an article about an interview with VitaNuova's CEO -- Michael Jeffrey: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/05/2032245&mode=thread&tid=155 please consider this a first post, thank you :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 17:39:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 17:39:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 14175 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 17:39:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14171 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 17:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 17:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A3FC199BC; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 03:39:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc113.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.113]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E9A60199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 03:38:25 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] a copy of plan9 as of Jun 2000 anyone? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020306083825.E9A60199A3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:37:29 +0100 Thanks a lot to all how replied, I have a copy now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 19:11:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 19:11:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15763 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15759 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:11:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A6C419980; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:11:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9420C199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:10:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iY5o-0000JX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:52:16 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C8593A3.37C00EB9@null.net> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20020305095507.EEF2519AAA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:52:03 GMT "Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > If there are more efficient (but still correct) ways, just > replace the implementation of strcpy. And let the programs using > strcpy call strcpy without a preprocessor mess. cf. The Practice > of Programming (A "must" read). The usual reason for the "preprocessor mess" is that generation of the function linkage itself needs to be avoided. E.g. extern char *strcpy(char *dst, const char *src); #define strcpy(a,b) __builtin_strcpy(a,b) (The first line is in case the user invokes the actual function; there are a couple of ways he can do that.) The "inline" facility may be able to replace some of this, but it's still no substitute for intrinsics. Here is another example that has really sped up some searching applications, therefore was worth doing despite being "unclean": #define StrEq(a,b) (*(a)==*(b) && strcmp((a)+1,(b)+1)==0) This has the drawback that the arguments mustn't have side effects. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 19:11:23 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 19:11:23 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15770 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15766 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:11:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F434199BE; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:11:13 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2DDF199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:10:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iY6M-0000Ki-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:52:50 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20020305223255.7B2BA19992@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 1st post Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:52:14 GMT Hi, > let me be the first to point out that slashdot is running an article > about an interview with VitaNuova's CEO -- Michael Jeffrey: > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/05/2032245&mode=thread&tid=155 And the actual interview is at osnews.com. Here's the `printer' version for decent on-screen presentation. http://www.osnews.com/printer.php?news_id=750 Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 19:11:29 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 19:11:29 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15777 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15773 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:11:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C096199E3; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:11:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAE2D19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iY4Z-0000Gt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:50:59 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Roger Peppe Message-ID: <1015357330.22399.0.nnrp-08.d4f0e306@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:50:41 GMT > this should almost be in the FAQ. try "du -a . | grep foo". i've also > found "grep foo `{du -a . | awk '{print $2}'" to be very useful. > variations can reproduce most or all of find. i find the following little shell script saves typing; i use it all the time, e.g. grep '^menuhit' `{find /sys/src/lib* '\.c$'} % cat /bin/find #!/bin/rc if (~ $#* 1 0) { echo 'usage: find ... ' >[1=2] exit usage } a=() while (! ~ $#* 1) { a=($a $1) shift } du -a $a | sed 's/^[^ ]*[ ]//' | grep $1 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 19:11:35 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 19:11:35 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15784 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15780 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:11:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79E7D199E4; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:11:25 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C80C19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iY5G-0000I8-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:51:42 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87n0xm20ac.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3C844A15.FC687ACD@null.net>, <15012.1015322661@apnic.net> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:51:09 GMT ggm@apnic.net (George Michaelson) writes: > "I'm sorry, you have a non-matching brace in your comment. compilation > halted at line xxxxx." > > god, I miss the PL/1 computed goto sometimes... Lol. GCC actually supports a close extension; you can store labels in appropriately typed variables and then goto them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 19:11:40 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 19:11:40 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15791 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15787 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:11:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A839519A06; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:11:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA33319980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iY5H-0000IE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:51:43 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87it8a208a.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20020305095507.EEF2519AAA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:51:33 GMT nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es (Fco.J.Ballesteros) writes: > If there are more efficient (but still correct) ways, just > replace the implementation of strcpy. And let the programs using > strcpy call strcpy without a preprocessor mess. cf. The Practice > of Programming (A "must" read). Um, the implementation is correct. I'm not sure why a "preprocessor mess" is such a mess. The beginning comment was somebody who thought that the compiler was doing the magic; that shows that the "preprocessor mess" is sufficiently well done that nobody ever notices it unless they go looking for it. (As, indeed, I did.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 19:11:45 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 19:11:45 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15798 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15794 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:11:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:11:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2697E19A0D; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:11:39 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6E1E1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:10:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iY5n-0000JR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:52:15 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C859135.C3B7A1AC@null.net> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3cb3dded4b8cad85cd6887800a46bc25@plan9.bell-labs.com>, , Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:51:51 GMT ozan s yigit wrote: > google. search for message id 35E79AA5.602796A4@null.net No, that was the one I already quoted. There was a more extensive example, I'm fairly sure.. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Mar 6 19:25:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Mar 6 19:25:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 15986 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Mar 2002 19:25:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15982 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:25:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD3BE199A3; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:25:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (dnspac.collyer.net [66.120.90.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 671431999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:24:29 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect From: geoff@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020306102429.671431999B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 02:24:03 -0800 Unfortunately #define StrEq(a,b) (*(a)==*(b) && strcmp((a)+1,(b)+1)==0) is in general incorrect: *a can equal *b and they can both be NUL bytes, unless you know for certain that one argument will always be a (preferably constant) non-empty string. A correct version is #define STREQ(a,b) (*(a)==*(b) && strcmp((a),(b))==0) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 01:04:17 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 01:04:17 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 19396 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 01:04:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19392 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 01:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 01:04:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29D45199D5; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:04:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFC9319981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:03:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16idn9-0001bS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:57:23 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: <3C844A15.FC687ACD@null.net>, <15012.1015322661@apnic.net>, <87n0xm20ac.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:56:53 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > Lol. GCC actually supports a close extension; you can store labels in > appropriately typed variables and then goto them. yeah, that and some other extensions (eg. nested functions a la pascal) that have failed to make it to any other C compiler [or standard] in the last decade. we have great time scraping them off of any code we find them in, assuming we have to keep that code. :) oz From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 04:44:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 04:44:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 20758 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 04:44:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20754 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 04:44:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 04:44:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CED2719A2F; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:44:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz (210-55-57-168.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.55.57.168]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4C81199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([192.168.1.1]) by frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:40:06 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020307083942.00991b30@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) In-Reply-To: <87n0xm20ac.fsf@becket.becket.net> References: <3C844A15.FC687ACD@null.net> <15012.1015322661@apnic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2002 19:40:06.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7B30570:01C1C546] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:39:42 +1300 >Lol. GCC actually supports a close extension; you can store labels in >appropriately typed variables and then goto them. > I believe gcc is also the only compiler to support the computed "come from" statement? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 10:06:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 10:06:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 24233 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 10:06:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24229 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 10:06:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 10:06:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27A2B199E3; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:06:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp (ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp [131.112.14.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A24A619A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10189 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 01:02:24 -0000 Received: from mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.3.2) by ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 01:02:24 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id g2714g0295248; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:04:42 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200203070104.g2714g0295248@mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rio /dev/mouse From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:48:47 0900 Thank you for your enlightenment, rob. > Long ago, various pieces of the system cleared out the top bits but it > looks to me like all that code is gone. High bits of "m.buttons" is cleared in libdraw/mouse.c. I changed the line m.buttons &= 7; to m.buttons &= 127; And of course, I have changed rio/rio.c so that rio is now interpreting rolling wheel as either Kup or Kdown pressed. -- Sincerely, YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 10:24:17 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 10:24:17 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 24860 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 10:24:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24856 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 10:24:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 10:24:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B849199B6; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:24:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B978519A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:23:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Mar 6 20:21:56 EST 2002 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.234.126]) by plan9; Wed Mar 6 20:21:55 EST 2002 Message-ID: <2de6c270d77c8bc3b45d778586b882c3@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rio /dev/mouse From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:21:53 -0500 > High bits of "m.buttons" is cleared in libdraw/mouse.c. > I changed the line > m.buttons &= 7; > to > m.buttons &= 127; Have you applied the 10140327 full update from the Oct 14 2000 release to the March 27 2001 release? We dropped that line completely between the two. What does wrap/info plan9 print? Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 10:32:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 10:32:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 25002 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 10:32:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24998 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 10:32:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 10:32:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4231B199E3; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:32:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp (ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp [131.112.14.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3720C199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:31:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10694 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 01:29:32 -0000 Received: from mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.3.2) by ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 01:29:32 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id g271Vp0296710; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:31:51 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200203070131.g271Vp0296710@mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rio /dev/mouse From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:15:55 0900 > Have you applied the 10140327 full update from > the Oct 14 2000 release to the March 27 2001 release? > We dropped that line completely between the two. I am ashamed to say the truth, but no, I haven't any yet. I was not sure in what order I should apply updates. > What does wrap/info plan9 print? plan9 (full package as of Wed Jan 31 19:22:50 JST 2001) pkgupd 980936570 updating 971556349: Plan 9 - wiki software pkg 971556349: Plan 9 from Bell Labs ? Third Edition -- Sincerely, YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 12:07:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 12:07:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27135 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 12:07:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27131 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 12:07:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 12:07:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38847199A3; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:07:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cpu4.itic.ca (cust230.209.188.66.dsl.accessv.com [209.188.66.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 585181999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:06:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpq1700 ([192.168.255.253]) by cpu4; Wed Mar 6 23:13:54 EST 2002 From: "Plan9" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:07:26 -0600 Well, We updated and tested with the following cards : CARD CHIPSET ----------------- -------- RTL8139B RTL8139B D-Link DFE-538 TX DL10038 (alias RTL8139B) Compaq 10/100 PCI WOL EMPX??? (alias RTL8139B) But it seems like the issues are still here. While transfering a big = amount of data or during normal ops (but a long time after booting) the = machine unexpectedely crashes by suddenly rebooting. We have clearly isolated the issue by testing the same PC/pccpud/kfs = with an elnk3. Maybe you did it for 8139A ? a crit dans le message = news:<20020304000219.1ABC919999@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > Line 494, in rtl8139receive(), reads >=20 > memmove(bp->rp, p, l); > but should be > memmove(bp->wp, p, l); >=20 > jmk has vetted this change. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 12:13:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 12:13:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27284 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 12:13:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27280 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 12:13:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 12:13:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B00719995; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:13:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cpu4.itic.ca (cust230.209.188.66.dsl.accessv.com [209.188.66.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CA797199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:12:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpq1700 ([192.168.255.253]) by cpu4; Wed Mar 6 23:19:59 EST 2002 From: "Plan9" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Subject: [9fans] ELNK3 and 3CSOHO100-TX Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:13:31 -0600 Hi all, Did anyone test the recent 3CSOHO100-TX The elnk3 drv detects it but it seems that card registers make it crash = (no debug output, violent rebbot)... On the 9pcfs kernel, a "memory" error message appears on console before = rebooting. The chip is a : 3Com 40-0483-004 0201T 46919437 AGERE 40-04834 Any experience ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 12:15:12 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 12:15:12 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 27341 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 12:15:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27337 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 12:15:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 12:15:11 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 889EC1998C; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:15:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [66.120.90.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6C34919992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:14:28 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix From: geoff@collyer.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020307031428.6C34919992@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:14:10 -0800 The old code was just wrong; it was obviously a typo. There could be other bugs in the 8139 driver, I don't yet have any 8139s to test it on. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 13:11:19 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 13:11:19 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28705 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 13:11:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28701 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 13:11:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 13:11:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B090F199B3; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:11:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9443619995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:09:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <23d4c2bf75007d14bcb777b3c5782ea9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:07:41 -0500 I'd have to dig the card back out of the box I stored it in but I'm pretty sure it was an 8139C. There's a comment at the beginning of the driver: /* * Realtek 8139 (but not the 8129). * Error recovery for the various over/under -flow conditions * may need work. */ I never saw any errors at all on my card. Perhaps someone who has a problem could track it down. The various free *nix drivers all have workarounds for odd chip bugs, I would have looked more closely at them if I'd had a problem to track down. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 13:37:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 13:37:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29386 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 13:37:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29382 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 13:37:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 13:37:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADFF019995; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:37:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1982319999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:36:52 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9 From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020307043653.1982319999@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:37:53 +0900 >a rumor that maybe acme will once upon a time become a libcontrol user. It'd be great if we could have one. By the way, an example of our newest user interface is here: http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/planvui.ps Kenji PS. I'll be in Houston the next week, so my response will be delayed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 13:51:17 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 13:51:17 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29793 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 13:51:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29789 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 13:51:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 13:51:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75627199D5; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:51:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 93F7119981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:50:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3bb3a47f66daabd821b50d3670985484@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ELNK3 and 3CSOHO100-TX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:50:49 -0500 On Wed Mar 6 22:13:13 EST 2002, plan9@itic.ca wrote: > Hi all, > > Did anyone test the recent 3CSOHO100-TX > The elnk3 drv detects it but it seems that card registers make it crash (no debug output, violent rebbot)... > On the 9pcfs kernel, a "memory" error message appears on console before rebooting. > > The chip is a : > 3Com 40-0483-004 > 0201T 46919437 > AGERE 40-04834 > > Any experience ? No experience, but if it has a PCI device id of 0x7646 then try adding this to the etherelnk3reset function as I think it is just a 3C905B with a different device id: 1) in the switch on the device id switch(did = eepromdata(did, port, 0x03)){ add case 0x7646: after the case 0x9055: 2) later on there is a test for the 905B: if(did == 0x9055 || did == 0x9200 || did == 0x5157){ (your version may or may not have the tests for 0x9200 and 0x5157) add a test for 0x7646 here too, e.g. if(did == 0x9055 || did == 0x7646 || did == 0x9200 || did == 0x5157){ --jim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 18:00:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 18:00:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 2998 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 18:00:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2994 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 18:00:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 18:00:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EDC219992; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 04:00:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc113.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.113]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EF1B7199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 03:59:28 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rio /dev/mouse From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020307085928.EF1B7199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:57:59 +0100 : I changed the line : m.buttons &= 7; : to : m.buttons &= 127; Don't have that line, perhaps I just changed it and then forgot I changed it. : And of course, I have changed rio/rio.c so that rio is now : interpreting rolling wheel as either Kup or Kdown pressed. Can you send the code? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 19:14:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 19:14:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 4154 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 19:14:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4149 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 19:14:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 19:14:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40F4619991; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:14:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAD3D19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:13:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iuds-0001ew-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:56:56 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87zo1l5piv.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <15012.1015322661@apnic.net>, <87n0xm20ac.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:36 GMT ozan s yigit writes: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > > > Lol. GCC actually supports a close extension; you can store labels in > > appropriately typed variables and then goto them. > > yeah, that and some other extensions (eg. nested functions a la pascal) > that have failed to make it to any other C compiler [or standard] in the > last decade. we have great time scraping them off of any code we find > them in, assuming we have to keep that code. :) Ah well, such is the way of success, isn't it? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 19:18:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 19:18:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 4200 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 19:18:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4196 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 19:18:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 19:18:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D7B81999B; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:18:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14D5119992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:17:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16iudt-0001f2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:56:57 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C86B696.E58440C8@null.net> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20020306102429.671431999B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:53 GMT geoff@collyer.net wrote: > #define StrEq(a,b) (*(a)==*(b) && strcmp((a)+1,(b)+1)==0) > is in general incorrect: *a can equal *b and they can both be NUL Well, yeah, it was taken from a context where non-null identifiers were being matched. For more general use one would indeed use your version.. Note that under reasonable assumptions the macro saves at least a dozen function calls for each redundant test of byte equality, so the more conservative version is still a big performance win. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 22:20:31 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 22:20:31 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6218 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 22:20:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6214 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 22:20:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 22:20:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DBAC19999; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:20:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AA2B1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:19:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16ixev-0001ON-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:10:13 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: hushui Message-ID: <1ada5788.0203070441.7da1dde8@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Where can I download a distribution of Plan9 system ?? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:09:54 GMT Thank you. What's its offical download ftp site ?? Does it have mirror site all around the world ?? I am living in Asian. Thank you. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 22:47:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 22:47:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6525 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 22:47:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6521 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 22:47:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 22:47:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1F3919991; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:47:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 202CE199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:46:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9d0beeb37aae80180882f07b494170f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:45:53 -0500 > Note that under reasonable assumptions the macro saves at least a > dozen function calls for each redundant test of byte equality, so > the more conservative version is still a big performance win. Function calls are cheap. They used to be expensive, but they're really not any more. I tried the attached program and got a factor of about 2.5 between the two programs (mips or x86). Given that our strcmp is not clever, one might have expected a bigger difference. No denying the macro makes a difference, but given their dangers, you'd have to have a pretty special program before this change could make a worthwhile improvement. I tried inlining (by hand) strcmp - something gcc does just fine - and got exactly the same speedup. Surely inlining is safer than this sort of hack, if you can inline. -rob #include #include #define StrEq(a,b) (*(a)==*(b) && strcmp((a),(b))==0) void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { char *a, *b; int i, j; a = "asdfadfdsf"; b = "bsdfzxcvvx"; for(i=0; i<1000*1000*100; i++) // if(StrEq(a,b)) if(strcmp(a,b)==0) j++; } our strcmp: #include #include int strcmp(char *s1, char *s2) { unsigned c1, c2; for(;;) { c1 = *s1++; c2 = *s2++; if(c1 != c2) { if(c1 > c2) return 1; return -1; } if(c1 == 0) return 0; } } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Mar 7 23:09:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Mar 7 23:09:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 6803 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Mar 2002 23:09:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6799 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 23:09:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 23:09:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05845199A3; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:09:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5448E1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:08:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:08:25 -0500 a crit dans le message news:<20020304000219.1ABC919999@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > Line 494, in rtl8139receive(), reads > > memmove(bp->rp, p, l); > but should be > memmove(bp->wp, p, l); > > jmk has vetted this change. This fix should be a noop. Though the change should be made for clarity, after the bp = iallocb(length), both bp->rp and bp->wp point to the same spot. However, looking at the code, if the packet wraps around the buffer, and if the crc straddles the end of the ring buffer, the code is just wrong. It would be better as: bp = iallocb(length); if(p+length >= ctlr->rbstart+ctlr->rblen){ l = ctlr->rbstart+ctlr->rblen - p; if(bp != nil){ memmove(bp->rp, p, l); bp->wp += l; } length -= l; p = ctlr->rbstart; } if(length > 0 && bp != nil){ memmove(bp->wp, p, length); bp->wp += length; } if(bp != nil){ bp->wp -= 4; One could rewrite the if-chain to be a bit more efficient, but you should get the idea. Of course, I'm assuming that the device allows the CRC to straddle the end of the buffer. If not, the code is fine as is. However, looking at memmove.s, it'll fault if the length is negative, which I believe is the observed behaviour. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 00:51:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 00:51:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 7865 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 00:51:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7861 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 00:51:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 00:51:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA45919992; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:51:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from harpoon.arl.army.mil (harpoon.arl.army.mil [128.63.58.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DB0C19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:50:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from cobra2 ([158.12.104.50]) by mail.arl.army.mil (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.9a) with ESMTP id 2002030710505337:4642 ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:50:53 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c1c5ef$697addc0$32680c9e@arl.army.mil> From: "AMSRL-CI-C" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9d0beeb37aae80180882f07b494170f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Organization: US Army Research Laboratory MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on mail/arl(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 03/07/2002 10:50:53 AM, Serialize by Router on harpoon/arl(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 03/07/2002 10:48:28 AM, Serialize complete at 03/07/2002 10:48:28 AM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:39 -0500 > Function calls are cheap. They used to be expensive, but they're > really not any more. Of course that depends on the architecture. I'm really pleased with Motorola's M*CORE, where quite often no registers at all need to be saved across the function call (except the return PC which is automatically pushed on the stack). > you'd have to have a pretty special program before this change could > make a worthwhile improvement. It is also possible, sometimes, to change the algorithm, e.g. hashing has more up-front cost but searching is then cheaper. > Surely inlining is safer than this sort of hack, if you can inline. Yes, that particular hack was to avoid function linkage, which is also what inlining does. The C compilers shipped with the 5620 DMD/630 MTG SGS were very good about automatically inlining small functions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 02:04:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 02:04:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 8469 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 02:04:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8465 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 02:04:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 02:04:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1289919988; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:04:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 676CC199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16j12y-0001UR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:47:16 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ozan s yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: <87n0xm20ac.fsf@becket.becket.net>, , <87zo1l5piv.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:46:41 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > > yeah, that and some other extensions (eg. nested functions a la pascal) > > that have failed to make it to any other C compiler [or standard] in the > > last decade. we have great time scraping them off of any code we find > > them in, assuming we have to keep that code. :) > > Ah well, such is the way of success, isn't it? well, humpty-dumptyism aside, i observe that the earlier experimentation seems to be dying down. it also helps to have other compilers like sun's workshop to assist in the cleanup. oz From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 03:00:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 03:00:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 8907 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 03:00:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8903 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 03:00:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 03:00:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03D4819992; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:00:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E54B219981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:59:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:59:28 -0500 OK. I think we all got confused about this. Turns out I thought the fix posted by geoff@collyer.net was referring to the 2nd memmove in the receive code, where the real problem lay and which I had already fixed some time before. My apologies for not taking time to verify the fix was what I thought it was. Anyway, in conjunction with Presotto I've tested the following which completely replaces the code in rtl8139receive() for handling an OK packet: /* * Receive Completed OK. * Very simplistic; there are ways this could be done * without copying, but the juice probably isn't worth * the squeeze. * The packet length includes a 4 byte CRC on the end. */ capr = (capr+4) % ctlr->rblen; p = ctlr->rbstart+capr; capr = (capr+length) % ctlr->rblen; if((bp = iallocb(length)) != nil){ if(p+length >= ctlr->rbstart+ctlr->rblen){ l = ctlr->rbstart+ctlr->rblen - p; memmove(bp->wp, p, l); bp->wp += l; length -= l; p = ctlr->rbstart; } if(length > 0){ memmove(bp->wp, p, length); bp->wp += length; } bp->wp -= 4; etheriq(edev, bp, 1); } capr = ROUNDUP(capr, 4); csr16w(ctlr, Capr, capr-16); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 03:03:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 03:03:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 8949 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 03:03:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8945 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 03:03:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 03:03:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC7F319991; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:03:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B886B1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:02:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA21617 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:02:57 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20020307190256.G21445@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Subject: [9fans] Rethink Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:02:57 +0200 It looks like the actual story isn't as simple as I thought. It is distinctly possible that squidboy() - blessed be he - doesn't come into the picture at all. I guess I';ll have to read what Nemop has to say about the scheduler, though before I can understand all the contorsions of setlabel() and gotolabel(). I really need a taller monitor :-) Still, the whole thing just jams on my '486. But I must eventually be able to narrow it down to a particular change of set of changes prior to March 27. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 03:03:28 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 03:03:28 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 8964 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 03:03:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8960 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 03:03:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 03:03:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12009199B3; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:03:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9036319981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA21586 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:52:35 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20020307185232.F21445@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Subject: [9fans] schedinit() Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:52:32 +0200 Just a quick one, while I track down a problem by other means: is it reasonable for /sys/src/9/port/proc.c:/^schedinit( to be called twice on kernel startup? On a single CPU host? Something happened between October 14, 2000 and March 27, 2001 that causes the pc kernel not to start up properly. I've isolated it to port/proc.c and port/portclock.c (to the best of my ability) and I think it's speed related. But having schedinit() called both in main() and in squidboy() - anyone care to explain squidboy() to me? - doesn't fit with my somewhat vague understanding of the kernel. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 03:05:13 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 03:05:13 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 8978 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 03:05:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8974 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 03:05:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 03:05:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C8BC19981; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:05:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3515D199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:04:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16j26k-0003j9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:55:14 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87pu2gp8nw.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: , <87zo1l5piv.fsf@becket.becket.net>, Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:55:07 GMT ozan s yigit writes: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" writes: > > > > yeah, that and some other extensions (eg. nested functions a la pascal) > > > that have failed to make it to any other C compiler [or standard] in the > > > last decade. we have great time scraping them off of any code we find > > > them in, assuming we have to keep that code. :) > > > > Ah well, such is the way of success, isn't it? > > well, humpty-dumptyism aside, i observe that the earlier experimentation > seems to be dying down. it also helps to have other compilers like sun's > workshop to assist in the cleanup. It's a little bizarre to hear Plan-9-ers arguing that C programs should strictly conform to the "standard compiler interface", since, after all, Plan 9 relishes not supported the "standard OS interface". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 07:50:08 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 07:50:08 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 10859 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 07:50:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10855 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 07:50:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 07:50:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C7F319980; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:50:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (210-86-15-131.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.131]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D425199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([210.55.57.168]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020307224715.LRFN12547.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@MERCURY> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:47:15 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020308114929.009a27f0@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [9fans] Coding layout query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:49:29 +1300 Not wishing to start a religious debate here, but I notice that in the Plan9 source code, the return type of a function is placed on a separate line from the function name when the function is defined: int nurdge(int a) or even static int nurdge(int a) whereas in the header file, the return type is on the same line: int nurdge(int) It's not a style I've seen before, even, if memory serves, in TPOP, and I was wondering if it was purely a matter of taste, or whether there was some perceived benefit to be gained from laying the code out in this way - I find it rather disconcerting at present. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 07:52:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 07:52:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 10884 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 07:52:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10880 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 07:52:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 07:52:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE85A199B3; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:52:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A915619999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:51:09 -0500 (EST) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Coding layout query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wgymctvrztdmquinrtfqshqxza" Message-Id: <20020307225109.A915619999@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:54:08 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wgymctvrztdmquinrtfqshqxza Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /^nurdge/ -- to find the function in the code --upas-wgymctvrztdmquinrtfqshqxza Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by edsac; Thu Mar 7 18:12:08 EST 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7343119981; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:49:57 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (210-86-15-131.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.131]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D425199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([210.55.57.168]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020307224715.LRFN12547.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@MERCURY> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:47:15 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020308114929.009a27f0@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [9fans] Coding layout query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:49:29 +1300 Not wishing to start a religious debate here, but I notice that in the Plan9 source code, the return type of a function is placed on a separate line from the function name when the function is defined: int nurdge(int a) or even static int nurdge(int a) whereas in the header file, the return type is on the same line: int nurdge(int) It's not a style I've seen before, even, if memory serves, in TPOP, and I was wondering if it was purely a matter of taste, or whether there was some perceived benefit to be gained from laying the code out in this way - I find it rather disconcerting at present. --upas-wgymctvrztdmquinrtfqshqxza-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 09:26:17 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 09:26:17 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 12203 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 09:26:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12199 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 09:26:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 09:26:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9D801999B; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:26:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp (ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp [131.112.14.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 75F21199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:25:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25945 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 00:22:06 -0000 Received: from mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.3.2) by ginnan.cc.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 00:22:06 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id g280OV0332970; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:24:32 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200203080024.g280OV0332970@mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rio /dev/mouse From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:08:32 0900 > : And of course, I have changed rio/rio.c so that rio is now > : interpreting rolling wheel as either Kup or Kdown pressed. > > Can you send the code? Sure. I only added the following lines headed with `>' to rio.c. I don't know this works in general, however. in mousethread() in rio.c: for(;;) switch(alt(alts)){ case MReshape: resized(); break; case MMouse: > if (mouse->buttons == 8) { > static Rune up[2] = {Kup, L'\0'}; > > if (input != nil) > sendp(input->ck, up); > continue; > } > else if (mouse->buttons == 16) { > Rune down[2] = {Kdown, L'\0'}; > > if (input != nil) > sendp(input->ck, down); > continue; > } Again: -- YAMANASHI akeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 10:13:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 10:13:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 13558 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 10:13:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13554 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 10:13:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 10:13:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3DEC199A3; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:13:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 90CFD199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:12:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3260182dab3d9f3acd478fd3c48001ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] schedinit() MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:12:32 -0500 On Thu Mar 7 13:03:27 EST 2002, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > ... > But having schedinit() called both in main() and in squidboy() - > anyone care to explain squidboy() to me? - doesn't fit with my > somewhat vague understanding of the kernel. > ... Rucker, Rudy: The Hacker and the Ants From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 10:20:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 10:20:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 13736 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 10:20:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13732 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 10:20:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 10:20:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B172F199B6; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:20:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 97E6219981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:19:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] schedinit() MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yrhpsyjsjpgevrnuvdwsvfvulp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:19:40 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yrhpsyjsjpgevrnuvdwsvfvulp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a scheduler running on each processor. Each one has to get inited. They all get jobs from the same stack of run queues. What's the problem? --upas-yrhpsyjsjpgevrnuvdwsvfvulp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Mar 7 20:13:13 EST 2002 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Mar 7 20:13:12 EST 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1519C1999B; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:13:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 90CFD199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:12:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3260182dab3d9f3acd478fd3c48001ba@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] schedinit() MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:12:32 -0500 On Thu Mar 7 13:03:27 EST 2002, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > ... > But having schedinit() called both in main() and in squidboy() - > anyone care to explain squidboy() to me? - doesn't fit with my > somewhat vague understanding of the kernel. > ... Rucker, Rudy: The Hacker and the Ants --upas-yrhpsyjsjpgevrnuvdwsvfvulp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 19:15:24 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 19:15:24 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28226 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 19:15:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28222 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 19:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 19:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DB3719995; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:15:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A32BC199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:08:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jHAg-0004Yk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:18 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87r8mwc6bf.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3.0.6.32.20020308114929.009a27f0@pop3.clear.net.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] Coding layout query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:46 GMT andrew@mbmnz.co.nz (Andrew Simmons) writes: > Not wishing to start a religious debate here, but I notice that in the > Plan9 source code, the return type of a function is placed on a separate > line from the function name when the function is defined: > > int > nurdge(int a) The normal reason for this is that various automatic program scanners will detect this formatting and know that "nurdge" is a function definition. Thomas From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 19:18:26 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 19:18:26 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28274 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 19:18:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28270 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 19:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 19:18:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A13D519980; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:18:23 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31EE619980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jHAf-0004Yd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:17 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "ozan s. yigit" Message-ID: <4da3d9af.0203071402.f7ca99b@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <87zo1l5piv.fsf@becket.becket.net>, , <87pu2gp8nw.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:34 GMT Thomas Bushnell: > It's a little bizarre to hear Plan-9-ers arguing that C programs > should strictly conform to the "standard compiler interface", since, > after all, Plan 9 relishes not supported the "standard OS interface". plan-9-ers argue nothing of the kind, so far as i'm aware. i happen to be a part-time plan9-er with about fifteen years of gcc, so i feel i can comment on the compiler, its successes and failures, as needed. alas, time's up. :) oz --- ++?????++ Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 19:28:57 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 19:28:57 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28445 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 19:28:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28441 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 19:28:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 19:28:56 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C646919980; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:28:54 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F58719981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:26:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jHAf-0004YW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:17 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "ozan s. yigit" Message-ID: <4da3d9af.0203071037.710e0f42@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20020305095507.EEF2519AAA@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <3C8593A3.37C00EB9@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:21 GMT "Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > If there are more efficient (but still correct) ways, just > replace the implementation of strcpy. And let the programs using > strcpy call strcpy without a preprocessor mess. cf. The Practice > of Programming (A "must" read). it is worth noting that the macro mess (from bits/string2.h) is not the default; it takes quite a deliberate effort to activate, and presumably only used by those who desperately need the "optimal" inlined code and know what they are doing. there are similar macros that inject assembler as well. :] oz --- red hat is the VHS of the linux world -- peter laws Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Keywords: Cc: -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 19:29:21 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 19:29:21 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 28453 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 19:29:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28449 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 19:29:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 19:29:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F97D199B6; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:29:19 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC4DA19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:26:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jHAg-0004Yt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:18 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "ozan s. yigit" Message-ID: <4da3d9af.0203071953.81fa9cb@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <3.0.6.32.20020308114929.009a27f0@pop3.clear.net.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] Coding layout query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:58 GMT andrew@mbmnz.co.nz (Andrew Simmons): > Not wishing to start a religious debate here, but I notice that in the > Plan9 source code, the return type of a function is placed on a separate > line from the function name when the function is defined: > > int > nurdge(int a) [.. etc] this is a fairly common style on many development groups i've been in. [checking tilbrook code... yep] many O/S projects use that style as well. eg. nmh, glib, gtk, gcc etc. it is the layout for gnu coding standard. [www.gnu.org/prep/standards_23.html#SEC23]. oz --- xyzzy! nothing happens. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 20:36:18 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 20:36:18 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29226 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 20:36:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29222 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:36:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:36:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACF0F19991; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 06:36:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DA9819988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 06:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA23711 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:38:40 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] schedinit() Message-ID: <20020308113835.I21445@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 08:19:40PM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:38:38 +0200 On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 08:19:40PM -0500, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > There's a scheduler running on each processor. Each one has > to get inited. They all get jobs from the same stack of > run queues. What's the problem? I misunderstood my debugging output for schedinit() and thought it was being called twice whereas both paths through it were exercised before the machine stalled (remember north_'s fix?) The problem is that the machine hangs after the second invocation of sched() (port/proc.c). I have no idea how far it goes into the second invocation, I think I could work my way throught the first to get a better grip on what's going on. I'll also follow up jmk's recommended reading, but probably not right now :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:21:59 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:21:59 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29852 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:21:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29848 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:21:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:21:59 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04D12199A3; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:21:57 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E66D199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g27GNJpZ026833 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:23:19 +0100 Message-ID: <3C8793F7.D1A17C9B@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "9fans@cse.psu.edu" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] wintermute.cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:23:19 +0100 I think it's suffering DNS woe: 450 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [62.13.29.34] <9fans@cse.psu.edu>... Deferred: 450 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [62.13.29.34] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:23:56 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:23:56 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29875 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:23:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29870 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:23:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:23:55 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87987199B6; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:53 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79F9C199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g27F1lpZ026112 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:01:47 +0100 Message-ID: <3C8780DB.8DD59ACE@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ether8139.c fix References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:01:47 +0100 > This fix should be a noop. Though the change should be made for > clarity, after the bp = iallocb(length), both bp->rp and > bp->wp point to the same spot. Had me puzzled too until I realised it had to be a ring buffer. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:24:07 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:24:07 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29883 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:24:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29879 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:24:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:24:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE1DA19988; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:58 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B030199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g27BwjpZ024505 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:58:45 +0100 Message-ID: <3C8755F5.CFB86CEB@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rio /dev/mouse References: <2de6c270d77c8bc3b45d778586b882c3@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:58:45 +0100 > I changed the line > m.buttons &= 7; > to > m.buttons &= 127; s/127/0x7F/ it's far more obvious. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:24:28 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:24:28 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29902 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:24:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29898 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:24:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57AA6199ED; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:24:04 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59A0F199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g25FaQpZ001831 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:36:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3C84E5FA.53A64E4B@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs partwrite References: <1893340736@snellwilcox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:36:26 +0100 steve.simon@snellwilcox.com wrote: > Brings back memories... rebuilding a Unix sys-V database disk that had > been burnt (The machine went on fire!) It had vital data for a > haulage firm (Where all the goods and trucks where); the backup > QIC tapes had been stored on top of the machine. The story I heard about the Cr=E9dit Lyonnais [Paris] fire was that they send some [bunch of] sysadmin[s] in to get the tapes while the building was burning ... Then, they found out the safe deposit boxes weren't waterproof ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:24:59 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:24:59 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29924 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:24:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29920 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:24:58 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:24:58 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4CE619999; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:24:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 498F3199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g25AgdpZ032381 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:42:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3C84A11F.145262E4@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:42:39 +0100 Howard Trickey wrote: > my nearly full-time work these days is living inside Microsoft's > Visual Studio, doing C++, with a singing-dancing C++ mode that mostly > just gets in the way. Been there with Visual C++ [writing C] -- ick. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:25:40 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:25:40 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29932 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:25:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29928 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:25:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:25:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9407A19A08; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:24:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BF3819999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g259uVpZ032007 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:56:31 +0100 Message-ID: <3C84964F.58CE4323@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect References: <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com>, <87664dv3gj.fsf@becket.becket.net>, <878z97wr1h.fsf@becket.becket.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:56:31 +0100 "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > The referenced thread was about more efficient ways of implementing > strcpy than the trivial one. I'm sure there are more than that one. If you had a PDP-11 or slower ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:26:20 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:26:20 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29962 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:26:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29958 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:26:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:26:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E490419A06; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:24:20 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28E57199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g259YwpZ031812 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:34:58 +0100 Message-ID: <3C849142.F25193F5@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) References: <3.0.6.32.20020304132132.009cba10@pop3.clear.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:34:58 +0100 Andrew Simmons wrote: > It's easier to cheat, and look up the answer in TPOP chapter 9. I don't want to pollute sam, but given I know samuel is out there I just thought it would be quicker. Editors should edit text. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:26:47 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:26:47 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29974 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:26:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29970 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:26:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:26:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B56AE19A1C; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:24:26 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B837199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:18:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g259McpZ031671 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:22:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3C848E5E.D390BE2@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) References: <0c90d6a65e36c220673ecba1504e0841@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:22:38 +0100 Russ Cox wrote: > As far as Python is concerned, I've been happy > with g alone. Boyd, what did you want samuel to do > besides grep for things? Oh, I just saw emacs and it could zap to classes. I do, coincidentally, have a script called 'g' and an script called 'pb'. The later acts like plumb, 'cos I'm cursed to use lunix (sic). Soon, I shall probably do all my work on plan 9. Odd bit of work needs to get done _before_ that. I like some of acme's ideas, but I just can't use it (sam suits me fine). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:27:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:27:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29983 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:27:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29979 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:27:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:27:14 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC64619A2C; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:24:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B85619999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g25AIOpZ032197 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:18:24 +0100 Message-ID: <3C849B70.9B6B00A8@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) References: <200203041524.g24FOhP14640@cbe.ericsson.se> <3C844A15.FC687ACD@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:18:24 +0100 "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > I have recently run into the following style: > > #if some_condition /* { */ > .... > #else /* } comment about new condition { */ > .... > #endif /* } */ I'll remember that. It's gotta be cheaper than emetics. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 21:28:30 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 21:28:30 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 29999 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 21:28:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29995 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:28:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:28:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C319A199B7; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:28:27 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6596719A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:26:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g259hbpZ031909 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:43:37 +0100 Message-ID: <3C849349.89B794B6@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect References: , <3C7F6F11.2A1CD8DC@strakt.com> <87664dv3gj.fsf@becket.becket.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:43:37 +0100 "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > > boyd@strakt.com (Boyd Roberts) writes: > > > s/magic/stupidity/ > > The amazing thing is that you think performance is hugely important, ... s/amazing // s/performance/correctness/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 22:01:41 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 22:01:41 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 30423 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 22:01:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30419 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 22:01:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 22:01:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2910B19999; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:01:38 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53810199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:53:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jJgO-0002FE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:41:12 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Kannan S Message-ID: <3C88AFD2.4070002@lucent.com> Organization: Lucent Technologies Inc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] i815 built-in graphics Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:40:51 GMT hi, I'm trying to install plan9 on a PIII with built-in 815 graphics. After booting from the installtion floppy, aux/vga dumps the some bios area to the screen and drops me to a shell. I assume that this is because 815 graphics is not supported. is there any work around for this? i checked the vgadb file in the boot floppy. it has no entries for 815. i tried adding a ctlr entry with my bios strings and an nvidia driver. but it [ obviously ;-) ] said "bad arg in system call". how shall I proceed ? thanks in advance, kannan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Mar 8 22:26:05 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Mar 8 22:26:05 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 30720 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Mar 2002 22:26:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30716 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 22:26:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 22:26:05 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98C3619991; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:25:58 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8F27919991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:20:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5e15235c79c63fc0cd8429a1095a900e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Coding layout query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fihqfeiaexdkngymdxdqayryjw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:18:46 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fihqfeiaexdkngymdxdqayryjw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my case, it makes the non-automatic scanner 'grep ^fn *.c' work. --upas-fihqfeiaexdkngymdxdqayryjw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Mar 8 05:14:25 EST 2002 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Mar 8 05:14:24 EST 2002 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65355199B6; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:14:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A32BC199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:08:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jHAg-0004Yk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:18 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87r8mwc6bf.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3.0.6.32.20020308114929.009a27f0@pop3.clear.net.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] Coding layout query Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:46 GMT andrew@mbmnz.co.nz (Andrew Simmons) writes: > Not wishing to start a religious debate here, but I notice that in the > Plan9 source code, the return type of a function is placed on a separate > line from the function name when the function is defined: > > int > nurdge(int a) The normal reason for this is that various automatic program scanners will detect this formatting and know that "nurdge" is a function definition. Thomas --upas-fihqfeiaexdkngymdxdqayryjw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 9 01:19:17 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 9 01:19:17 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 32420 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Mar 2002 01:19:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32416 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:19:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:19:16 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4746D19991; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:19:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47E2719999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:18:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g28GI1pZ010122; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:18:05 +0100 Message-ID: <3C88E439.7B319187@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Coding layout query References: <3.0.6.32.20020308114929.009a27f0@pop3.clear.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:18:01 +0100 Andrew Simmons wrote: > int > nurdge(int a) > ... > > whereas in the header file, the return type is on the same line: > > int nurdge(int) > The contexts are different. I think both styles improve readability. However, prototypes should never have been invented. brucee's cyntax et al were much better ideas. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 9 01:24:14 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 9 01:24:14 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 32480 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Mar 2002 01:24:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32476 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:24:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:24:13 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC8DA199A3; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:24:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B100E19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (zode.strakt.com [62.13.29.39]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g28GNApZ010261 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:23:10 +0100 Message-ID: <3C88E56E.8191F68F@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] schedinit() References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:23:10 +0100 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > There's a scheduler running on each processor. Each one has > to get inited. They all get jobs from the same stack of > run queues. What's the problem? Sounds like the obvious way to do it -- no problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 9 01:36:52 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 9 01:36:52 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 32575 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Mar 2002 01:36:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32571 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:36:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:36:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B777199B3; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:36:47 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EA1F19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:35:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jN82-0002Nw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:21:58 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Serge Gagnon Message-ID: Organization: Bell Sympatico References: <20020225144618.8D32C19A56@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] vga prob after install Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:21:25 GMT Ok, thanks, it works :) -- Serge Gagnon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 9 02:39:51 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 9 02:39:51 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 581 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Mar 2002 02:39:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 577 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 02:39:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 02:39:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29AB519980; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:39:48 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19B3419980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:37:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16jOCy-0004fD-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:31:08 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87adtj7yyl.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: , <3C849349.89B794B6@strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:30:50 GMT boyd@strakt.com (Boyd Roberts) writes: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > > > > boyd@strakt.com (Boyd Roberts) writes: > > > > > s/magic/stupidity/ > > > > The amazing thing is that you think performance is hugely important, ... > > s/amazing // > s/performance/correctness/ Um, so, is there a bug in the glibc implementation of strcpy? I mean, correctness is a binary property--you've got it, or you don't. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 9 03:01:15 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 9 03:01:15 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 737 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Mar 2002 03:01:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 733 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 03:01:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 03:01:15 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BB2119992; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:01:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C695C199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:00:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12890 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:00:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200203081800.NAA12890@math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:30:50 GMT." <87adtj7yyl.fsf@becket.becket.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:00:38 -0500 No Tom, the point is that it's easier to verify that something is correct if it's simpler. Performance is, to a lot of folks (myself included) less important than correctness. These are all pretty straight forward engineering tradeoffs; how much time am I willing to invest in making something go faster? Is it worth while for me to do so? What is the cost of maintaining that thing? If you're a resource constrained group like 1127, and performance isn't such a big deal to you, you're not going to worry about making a super-fast whiz bang optimizer, or about hand coding the universe's most efficient implementation of strcpy. It's just not important. Another good engineering principle is ``optimize for the most common case.'' Imagine that you build a system, and you find that you spend 90% of your time in one, rather small, part of that system. If the performance of the system is still acceptable, you probably aren't going to worry about it. But, if you do need to make it faster, where do you get the biggest return on your investment in optimizing: in that one part, or on the system overall? Usually, it's in that one part. The Plan 9 guys at the labs took these things to heart when they built the compiler suite. They saw themselves spending a lot of time compiling, and not worrying too much about performance of the compiled code. The end result is what we see in 8[acl] et al; you get very speedy compilation, and medium quality output with acceptable performance. You don't have the maintenance overhead of something really big like gcc. Overall, the system is very well balanced in terms of compiler output quality, compiler speed, and maintenance costs associated with the compiler suite. The compiler is well suited to the unique Plan 9 environment. Really, I don't see what your problem with the Plan 9 compilers are, Tom. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 9 04:33:40 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 9 04:33:40 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 1480 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Mar 2002 04:33:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1476 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 04:33:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 04:33:39 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 678BE19988; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:33:37 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust17.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D76CB199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:54 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan or side effect From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020308192654.D76CB199B9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:22:07 0000 >>The Plan 9 guys at the labs took these things to heart when they built >>the compiler suite. They saw themselves spending a lot of time >>compiling, and not worrying too much about performance of the compiled >>code. The end result is what we see in 8[acl] et al; you get very >>speedy compilation, and medium quality output with acceptable >>performance. You don't have the maintenance overhead of something >>... The compiler is well suited to the unique Plan 9 environment. they are also structurally different from gcc, because they can be. i liked the approach, and the distribution of effort, and it also gives it some of the speed: there is no separate assembler for instance, and although the papers say it links slowly, it's by no means as slow as some conventional linkers. it further allows literal pool generation, span-dependent instructions, instruction scheduling, and several other things on peculiar architectures to be handled in a good place, without one component second-guessing another or duplicating the effort. gcc has external constraints that pretty much force a certain approach. even the generation of assembly language is arguably sensible for it because it allows porting to systems where the binary formats are a complete mystery or a precious secret. actually, one could do a reasonably good fancy optimiser for the Plan 9 compilers too, if that were desired, but for what it usually compiles that hasn't been a big demand. it's a fairly well-studied problem, and there are plenty of techniques that aren't ridiculously hard but are compact and give good results. even so, if i were doing it i'd plump for the Digital (i think it was) `best-simple' approach, which historically produced reasonable results with reasonable effort, and with fewer surprises to programmers. of course, i'd hire a friend to do it, because i've got a life to lead. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Mar 9 04:38:00 JST 2002 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Mar 9 04:38:00 JST 2002 Received: (qmail 1516 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Mar 2002 04:38:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1512 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 04:38:00 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 04:38:00 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F37E199B9; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:37:58 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.131.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC2E019999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ishwar@localhost) by pali.cps.cmich.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g28JlUR03863 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:47:30 -0500 From: Ish Rattan To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Drawterm session close?? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fan