From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 1 01:02:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 1 01:02:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7480 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Dec 2001 01:02:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7476 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 01:02:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 01:02:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C21A019A7D; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:02:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3913819A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:01:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id BFAC5278C; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:01:54 -0500 (EST) From: plan9@sigint.cs.purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem Message-ID: <20011130110154.A1139@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <200111292037.PAA25596@augusta.math.psu.edu> <06e401c17917$68bb5240$b6f7c6d4@cybercable.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <06e401c17917$68bb5240$b6f7c6d4@cybercable.fr>; from boyd@fr.inter.net on Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 09:49:58PM +0100 X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:01:54 -0500 On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 09:49:58PM +0100, Boyd Roberts wrote: > > I could tell you a story about ULTRIX revision control, but that > could get me into some amount of trouble, given I signed my life > away some 10 years back :) Who would sue you? Compaq? Intel? HP? I'm sure the paper with your signature on it is hopelessly lost in the Black Hole of Mergers, from which even a coherent business plan can't escape. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 1 01:54:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 1 01:54:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8225 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Dec 2001 01:54:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8221 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 01:54:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 01:54:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E57A319A51; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:54:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from localhost.localdomain (cl3028971-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.183.20.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2661199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:53:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vic@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.2/8.11.2) id fAUGsDD04763; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:54:14 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: vic set sender to zandy@cs.wisc.edu using -f To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: vic Message-ID: Lines: 6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090004 (Oort Gnus v0.04) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] vmware Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:54:13 -0600 I've been playing with (rioless) Plan 9 under vmware. It executes very slowly. For example, the unpack script echoes about one line per second. I'm using vmware workstation 3.0, the current Plan 9 distribution, and virtual IDE disks. Anyone know what's going on? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 1 06:42:33 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 1 06:42:33 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9591 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Dec 2001 06:42:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9587 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 06:42:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 06:42:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B420819A80; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:42:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.usask.ca (mail.usask.ca [128.233.3.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 303AD199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:41:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mail.usask.ca (PMDF V5.2-32 #36834) id <0GNM00E01UX5VT@mail.usask.ca> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:41:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([128.233.3.206]) by mail.usask.ca (PMDF V5.2-32 #36834) with ESMTP id <0GNM00NK6UX51T@mail.usask.ca> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:41:29 -0600 (CST) From: andrey To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3C07FD09.5A721363@mail.usask.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en Subject: [9fans] p9 source browser? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:41:29 -0600 hello, the plan9 source browser has been down for several days now. i know the disclaimer says there is no guarantee that the machine is going to be up at all, however it would be nice if p9-less people (without local installation) could access the source... the site i'm referring to is: http://offworld.fac.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/9login regards, andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 1 07:32:36 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 1 07:32:36 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9782 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Dec 2001 07:32:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9778 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 07:32:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 07:32:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73BF519A81; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:32:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE44419A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:31:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from whitecrow.demon.co.uk ([194.222.126.246] helo=localhost.localdomain) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 169wBz-0003GA-0X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:31:35 +0000 Received: from whitecrow (IDENT:steve@whitecrow [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07523 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:14:02 GMT Message-Id: <200111302014.UAA07523@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] seemail/faces In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:14:59 +0100." <002401c17990$4166eb40$a4b6c6d4@cybercable.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Steve Kilbane Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:14:01 +0000 > Installing the X11 faces has > absolutely no appeal (to me) whatsoever. Why not, pray? Its use implies you've already got X11 and all the gunk that goes with it. Xfaces, behemoth though it might be, just sits in the corner and renders pixels. Big deal. Turn off all the rubbish about audio, animation, shaped images and about half a million image formats, and just display what's in your mailbox. It's not as if you need to *interact* with it. steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 1 09:36:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 1 09:36:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10854 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Dec 2001 09:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10850 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 09:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 09:36:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9796519A7D; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:36:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc064.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.64]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6738D19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:35:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from nanonic.hilbert.space (80-26-99-12.uc.nombres.ttd.es [80.26.99.12]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA16054 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:35:00 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host 80-26-99-12.uc.nombres.ttd.es [80.26.99.12] claimed to be nanonic.hilbert.space Received: from paurea by nanonic.hilbert.space with local (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 169y5n-0001TM-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 01:33:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15368.9531.96607.387795@nanonic.hilbert.space> From: paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware In-Reply-To: :vic's message of 10:54:13 Friday,30 November 2001 References: X-Mailer: VM 6.97 under Emacs 20.7.2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:32:59 +0100 vic writes: > I've been playing with (rioless) Plan 9 under vmware. It executes > very slowly. For example, the unpack script echoes about one line per > second. I'm using vmware workstation 3.0, the current Plan 9 > distribution, and virtual IDE disks. > > Anyone know what's going on? How much memory do you have?. I have found running other os's under vmware that there is a high memory threshold under which the system is too slow to be usable. -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 1 13:41:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 1 13:41:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14642 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Dec 2001 13:41:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14638 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 13:41:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 13:41:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D134719A79; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:41:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63555199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:40:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1212185 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2001 04:40:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([212.198.182.164]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Dec 2001 04:40:24 -0000 Message-ID: <00f201c17a22$dca40ce0$a4b6c6d4@cybercable.fr> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200111292037.PAA25596@augusta.math.psu.edu> <06e401c17917$68bb5240$b6f7c6d4@cybercable.fr> <20011130110154.A1139@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 05:44:28 +0100 > Who would sue you? I signed the paper(s). I am ethically bound (to my mind) and legally bound. And AFAIK rob fought hard to get the 3rd release out. What I mean to say is that lawyers are a problem. Sure, ULTRIX is dead, but I am am still bound by the papers I signed. I you have a reason to the contrary I suggest you contact Paul Vixie. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 1 14:02:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 1 14:02:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14905 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Dec 2001 14:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14901 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 14:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 14:02:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C285519A7D; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 00:02:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 781D5199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 00:01:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7016792 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2001 05:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([212.198.182.164]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Dec 2001 05:01:56 -0000 Message-ID: <012f01c17a25$dedeb340$a4b6c6d4@cybercable.fr> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200111302014.UAA07523@localhost.localdomain> Subject: Re: [9fans] seemail/faces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 06:06:00 +0100 > Why not, pray? Its use implies you've already got X11 and all the > gunk that goes with it. Xfaces, behemoth though it might be, just > sits in the corner and renders pixels. Big deal. Turn off all the > rubbish about audio, animation, shaped images and about half a > million image formats, and just display what's in your mailbox. > It's not as if you need to *interact* with it. These are exactly the reasons I do not want it. It's the emacs school of thought. I've suffered enough, putting up faces. faces/seemail is a much smaller, cooler piece of code. It also lets me test libXg, which could be productive for people who want to run plan 9 stuff on X11. This is user mode, not linux kernel, build it all in and then compress it. Simple is good. Simple works. Turkish: Did you understand one word of what he just said? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 2 00:27:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 2 00:27:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19862 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Dec 2001 00:27:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19858 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 00:27:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 00:27:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 954DA19A02; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:27:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 063A6199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:26:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"i/xFjUQPazexXYd178q/vNh9GFPK/T7W0LR9M0gf9FkKc0Bk6fDLiA=="> Received: (from msenecal1@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GMK69PBG; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:26:09 EST To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20011201.072921.-190377.0.msenecal1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-7,9-10 From: Matthew W Senecal Subject: [9fans] Iomega Ditto as server backup? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 07:29:21 -0800 Has anyone ever used one of these as a server backup device? Someone just gave me 4 of them, and I was wondering if I should even bother. ---Matt ************************************************************************* ********* There's nothing more dangerous than a resourceful idiot. ---Dilbert ************************************************************************* ********* Matt Senecal, Logicon-INRI (619)-553-4891 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 2 08:55:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 2 08:55:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24479 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Dec 2001 08:55:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24475 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 08:55:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 08:55:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 037B4199BF; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 18:55:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56DB0199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 18:54:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7492889 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2001 23:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([212.198.182.164]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Dec 2001 23:54:10 -0000 Message-ID: <02a101c17ac3$f150cba0$a4b6c6d4@cybercable.fr> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [9fans] plumb Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 00:57:32 +0100 HelpWould I be right in surmising that plumb was a natural progression from B? Or was it an independent thing? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 2 12:12:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 2 12:12:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26614 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Dec 2001 12:12:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26610 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 12:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 12:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 672F319A10; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:12:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4512D199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:11:11 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plumb From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iwiqucdehkpnzpesbriccbjein" Message-Id: <20011202031111.4512D199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:10:49 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iwiqucdehkpnzpesbriccbjein Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HelpYou would be mostly right. HelpCertainly B grew from the idea that one program should tell another what to do. HelpWhether it's natural is not for me to judge; also there was a lot of time involved and it took two versions (Inferno and Plan 9) to get a design I was comfortable with. -Helprob --upas-iwiqucdehkpnzpesbriccbjein Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Dec 1 18:55:18 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3858C199F1; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 18:55:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56DB0199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 18:54:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7492889 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2001 23:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([212.198.182.164]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Dec 2001 23:54:10 -0000 Message-ID: <02a101c17ac3$f150cba0$a4b6c6d4@cybercable.fr> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [9fans] plumb Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 00:57:32 +0100 HelpWould I be right in surmising that plumb was a natural progression from B? Or was it an independent thing? --upas-iwiqucdehkpnzpesbriccbjein-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 2 12:32:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 2 12:32:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26831 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Dec 2001 12:32:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26827 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 12:32:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 12:32:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 439EA19A17; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:32:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 263C519A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 26911 invoked by uid 991); 2 Dec 2001 03:31:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20011202033137.26909.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plumb In-Reply-To: Message from "rob pike" of "Sat, 01 Dec 2001 22:10:49 EST." <20011202031111.4512D199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 22:31:37 -0500 > a lot of time involved and it took two versions (Inferno and > Plan 9) to get a design I was comfortable with. I'm still nervous that the app and the programs that plumber launches have unrelated namspaces. In a full blown Actor style system, there would be closures that made it all work, but maybe Plan 9 could pass the information around by hand. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 2 12:34:18 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 2 12:34:18 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26849 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Dec 2001 12:34:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26845 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 12:34:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 12:34:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BE5E19A25; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:34:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A159719A18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:33:58 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plumb From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011202033358.A159719A18@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:33:53 -0500 You're right. There's still plenty of interesting research to do in the design of name spaces. We have a long list of issues that we'd like to address, this being one of them. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 2 18:40:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 2 18:40:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30860 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Dec 2001 18:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30856 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 18:40:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 18:40:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E9B3199EC; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 04:40:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id ED449199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 04:39:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.232.189]) by plan9; Sun Dec 2 04:39:11 EST 2001 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011202093912.ED449199BF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] python Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 04:39:10 -0500 Supposedly a Python port exists, but the URL on the Wiki and in the Plan 9 FAQ doesn't work. Anyone have other details? Do you know if it was a native port or an APE port? Thanks. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 2 21:05:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 2 21:05:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32543 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Dec 2001 21:05:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32539 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2001 21:05:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Dec 2001 21:05:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A69B119A06; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 07:05:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from smtp.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42690199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 07:04:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 129406373 invoked by uid 0); 2 Dec 2001 12:04:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([212.198.182.164]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 2 Dec 2001 12:04:39 -0000 Message-ID: <00ac01c17b2a$169cc420$a4b6c6d4@cybercable.fr> From: "Boyd Roberts" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20011202093912.ED449199BF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] python MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:08:43 +0100 > Supposedly a Python port exists, but the URL > on the Wiki and in the Plan 9 FAQ doesn't work. Yes, there is one IIRC. > Anyone have other details? Do you know if it > was a native port or an APE port? Not really. My native port ground to a halt when my 'copious spare time' (tm) went to zero. I would still like to complete it. I believe that APE ports are cheating and are an invitation for disaster (no slur on APE intended) because of the multiple layers of complexity and the 'where is the bug' syndrome: Is it an application problem, ANSI problem, APE problem or Plan 9 problem? Too many choices to my mind. Native ports cut out some of the uncertanty, but do raise other issues: You have to know unix and Plan 9 pretty well and you have to port it very cleanly because version n + 1 is just around the corner :( On a quasi-related topic: I had a hack at porting faces/seemail to X11 using libXg. This isn't too hard, except some of the includes need to be augmented (or added), some other libc functions need to be added and ken C incompatibilities need to be addressed. This last point has to be done cleanly, rather than just hack (sic) defining around it. I'd like to build a toolkit to automate (as far as possible) ports in both directions. Before the Licence Police start to worry, I plan to do it in such a way that you need to have Plan 9 installed and it copies the various files and all other code will either be already in the public domain or written from scratch by me. I did have an evil thought of adding a: --kenC option to gcc, but I'm pretty sure I'd be entering a world of pain: Walter: OVER THE LINE! Smokey: Huh? Walter: I'm sorry, Smokey. You were over the line, that's a foul. Smokey: Bullshit. Mark it 8, Dude. Walter: Uh, excuse me. Mark it zero. Next frame. Smokey: Bullshit, Walter. Mark it 8, Dude. Walter: Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. ... [Walter grabs his M1911] ... Walter: You're entering a world of pain. It would only work for people with gcc, which is not a sufficiently general (or good) solution to my mind. btw: any 'Help's found in this message are Outlook Express' screams of pain. I like to think of it as a testimony to the skills of Microsoft software engineering. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 01:06:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 01:06:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 2842 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 01:06:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2838 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 01:06:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 01:06:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0074D19A06; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:06:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from csociety.ecn.purdue.edu (csociety.ecn.purdue.edu [128.46.156.155]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEFCD199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:05:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from csociety.purdue.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by csociety.ecn.purdue.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -1) with ESMTP id fB2G5cVP027951 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:05:38 -0500 Message-Id: <200112021605.fB2G5cVP027951@csociety.ecn.purdue.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] python In-Reply-To: Message from "Russ Cox" of "Sun, 02 Dec 2001 04:39:10 EST." <20011202093912.ED449199BF@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20011202093912.ED449199BF@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Jonathan Sergent Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 11:05:38 -0500 > Supposedly a Python port exists, but the URL > on the Wiki and in the Plan 9 FAQ doesn't work. > > Anyone have other details? Do you know if it > was a native port or an APE port? Someone appears to have lost it on the FTP server. I can't replace it for the mean time due to the AT&T/@Home meltdown. I will see if the people that run the FTP server know what happened to it. It was an APE port. It had some bugs (plus I think it may have tickled some things that aren't supported by APE). I lost interest. I think a native port would be better so that one could more easily write modules for 9p, drawing, controls, etc. --jss. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 02:06:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 02:06:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3121 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 02:06:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3117 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 02:06:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 02:06:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E21719A11; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:06:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cs.usask.ca (cs.usask.ca [128.233.130.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E97D199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:05:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ultra5c.usask.ca (ultra5c.usask.ca [128.233.130.122]) by cs.usask.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA06306 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:05:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (aam396@localhost) by ultra5c.usask.ca (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.0) with ESMTP id fB2H5lv07088 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:05:47 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5c.usask.ca: aam396 owned process doing -bs From: Andrey A Mirtchovski X-Sender: aam396@ultra5c.usask.ca To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:05:46 -0600 (CST) just before someone else points it out, i'd like to direct your attention to this collection of email off the linux kernel list: http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398 (slashdot gets the credit for originating it).. there you will see linus arguing that he never designed his operating system, and that it evolved much like evolution. furthermore he claims that when software is done in such way, it ends up better... of course there's an obligatory plan9 quote, which is indeed the reason i'm posting this message :) the text not preceeded by '>' is linus' > Ok. There was no design, just "less than random mutations". > Deep. I'm not claiming to be deep, I'm claiming to do it for fun. I _am_ claiming that the people who think you "design" software are seriously simplifying the issue, and don't actually realize how they themselves work. > There was a overall architecture, from Dennis and Ken. Ask them. I'll bet you five bucks they'll agree with me, not with you. I've talked to both, but not really about this particular issue, so I might lose, but I think I've got the much better odds. If you want to see a system that was more thoroughly _designed_, you should probably point not to Dennis and Ken, but to systems like L4 and Plan-9, and people like Jochen Liedtk and Rob Pike. And notice how they aren't all that popular or well known? "Design" is like a religion - too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 10:22:42 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 10:22:42 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7633 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 10:22:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7628 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 10:22:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 10:22:37 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BB9219A18; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 20:22:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3D8DF199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 20:21:34 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic2ps From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gmzpvxxfomdvscgrooksyrbnba" Message-Id: <20011203012134.3D8DF199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:23:16 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gmzpvxxfomdvscgrooksyrbnba Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I updated pic2ps, and placed it at out web page (http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp) (Section 48). The previous version had problems in landscape mode, and CMYK colorspace. I also added README file. Kenji --upas-gmzpvxxfomdvscgrooksyrbnba Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by diabase; Fri Nov 30 13:30:25 JST 2001 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04553; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:32:16 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-01112614) with ESMTP id NAA06011; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:33:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A058A19A6B; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 23:33:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4CB41199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 23:32:06 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pic2ps From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011130043206.4CB41199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:33:39 +0900 Oops! >cat /dev/wsys/7/window | pic2ps -c CMYK -w 12.5 -h 20 -x 1.0 -y 1.5 | lp -dOki For Oki we'd better to have -c GRAY instead of -c CMYK. Sorry. Kenji --upas-gmzpvxxfomdvscgrooksyrbnba-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 19:24:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 19:24:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22124 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 19:24:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22120 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 19:24:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 19:24:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 116A119A26; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:24:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D48419A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:23:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Aq3d-0006AV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:10:41 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0112022010.d4a2c9f@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:10:35 GMT Ok, normally I do not take the time to write responses regarding issues like these. However, I believe Linus is a bit misguided and I would like to quickly postulate why. This isn't just a Linux problem. Its a lifestyle problem. You will see why I believe so in just one second or so ;) > --- bla bla bla snip --- > If you want to see a system that was more thoroughly _designed_, you > should probably point not to Dennis and Ken, but to systems like L4 and > Plan-9, and people like Jochen Liedtk and Rob Pike. > > And notice how they aren't all that popular or well known? "Design" is > like a religion - too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular. *G*. Design is in actuality nothing more than a personal concept. Design itself is a facade. Especially when you believe design is a laid out perfected ideal that you have generated previous to an action. Action itself is a flowing movement. It is not bound by time since action can never be initiated at an exact time and can never be terminated at one other precise moment in time. We only have approximations. Thus, it can never be 100% prepared for. As you move the world around you moves. The universe moves. We are constantly adjusting our theories and reasoning based on new evidence and new ideas. This is the same with both Linux and Plan 9. Things evolve over time in their own way. Design in this case is just few people sharing mostly private ideas as opposed to a global conglomeration of minds constructing solutions to globally perceived problems. The latter gets quite sloppy as we have all seen with the constant volatile state in which the Linux kernel exists. Regarding flexibility? Who gives you a better develop- ment system? Linux or Plan 9? If you have read anything about Plan 9's development scheme or used it what-so-ever you will immediately see important advances in debugging with imported namespaces cross-platform, a ready-to-write cross compilation suite over many platforms and the list just goes on. Bravo! As for the _lifestyle_ choice? This comes down to one exact statement: The largest group in any society will always choose the shortest path to its goal. The easiest and seemingly most 'robust' road. This is why Linux is currently so popular and Plan9 is not. A Linux user is more likely to install with aptget and the like. Bah! Give me source! Give me challenge! Give me ideas and theory and a fresh way at looking at our life! For people who crave knowledge and really want to understand our world there will always be smart projects like Plan 9. If you ever looked at an operating system, a woman, a man, a house, a goal .. and you thought to yourself "That is beyond me.." ask yourself "Is it really that I am not capable of this or is it that I believe I am not." Society changes you. You change society. Its a lifestyle choice. We make it every day. Decide. north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 19:24:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 19:24:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22135 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 19:24:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22131 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 19:24:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 19:24:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE8AC19A29; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:24:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47A0B19A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:23:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Aq21-00066W-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:09:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: vic Message-ID: Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:08:26 GMT 256MB. The plan 9 vm is configured for 96MB. The machine has a 700MHz PIII. Windows and Linux hum along nicely in vmware. paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es writes: > How much memory do you have?. I have found running other os's under > vmware that there is a high memory threshold under which the system > is too slow to be usable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 19:25:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 19:25:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22143 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 19:25:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22139 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 19:25:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 19:25:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA60B19A2D; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:25:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B835419A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:24:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Aq2v-000685-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:09:57 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: josh d Message-ID: Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net References: Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:09:43 GMT Considering the popularity of Linux vs the popularity of Plan9, he may have a point. Think about the issues and don't automatically descriminate because he said something you dislike. "Andrey A Mirtchovski" wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.10.10112021058100.6307-100000@ultra5c.usask.ca... > just before someone else points it out, i'd like to direct your attention to > this collection of email off the linux kernel list: > > http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398 (slashdot gets the credit for > originating it).. > > there you will see linus arguing that he never designed his operating > system, and that it evolved much like evolution. furthermore he claims that > when software is done in such way, it ends up better... > > of course there's an obligatory plan9 quote, which is indeed the reason i'm > posting this message :) > > the text not preceeded by '>' is linus' > > > > Ok. There was no design, just "less than random mutations". > > Deep. > > I'm not claiming to be deep, I'm claiming to do it for fun. > > I _am_ claiming that the people who think you "design" software are > seriously simplifying the issue, and don't actually realize how they > themselves work. > > > There was a overall architecture, from Dennis and Ken. > > Ask them. I'll bet you five bucks they'll agree with me, not with you. > I've talked to both, but not really about this particular issue, so I > might lose, but I think I've got the much better odds. > > If you want to see a system that was more thoroughly _designed_, you > should probably point not to Dennis and Ken, but to systems like L4 and > Plan-9, and people like Jochen Liedtk and Rob Pike. > > And notice how they aren't all that popular or well known? "Design" is > like a religion - too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 19:25:45 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 19:25:45 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22156 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 19:25:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22152 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 19:25:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 19:25:44 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06ED919A31; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:25:16 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 374D019A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:24:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Aq22-00066c-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:09:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Virgil Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20011129144529.29E7A199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Install problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:08:48 GMT rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) wrote in message news:<20011129144529.29E7A199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > what kind of video card do you have? i am not so sure , maybe it's WinFast 700. anyway , this card is better than the old one , which cause the boot program to dump the video memory. is there any chance that this problem is caused by the configuration files rather than the video card ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 19:26:08 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 19:26:08 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22168 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 19:26:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22164 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 19:26:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 19:26:07 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9928A19A36; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:25:33 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF18019A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:24:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Aq2t-00067y-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:09:55 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0112011821.629134fe@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20011123.084311.-2827.0.msenecal1@juno.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] '486 terminal freezes during boot (FIX) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:09:14 GMT msenecal1@juno.com (Matthew W Senecal) wrote in message news:<20011123.084311.-2827.0.msenecal1@juno.com>... > When booting the Plan 9 partition on my '486 terminal, it freezes. At > boot I see this on screen: > > PBS...Plan 9 From Bell Labs > dev A0 port 1F0 config 0C5A capabilities 0101 mwdma 0101 > using sdC0!9fat!Plan9.ini > found 9PCDISK. attr 0x0 start 0x4a len 1441737 > .650381......+489424......+87400=1227205 > entry: 0x80100020 > cpu0:61MHz 486DX (cpuid: Ax 0x0400 Dx 0x000) > dev A0 port 1F0 config 0C5A capabilities 0101 mwdma 0101 dma 00000001 > rwm16 > 7125 free pages > 28500K bytes > 134100K swap > > And that's where it freezes. I've let it sit for a half hour, but still > no go. I tried re-installing Plan 9 (on this '486 that's a 2-hour > chore!), re-installing it with the network card disabled, but neither > worked. The installation disk worked flawlessly, no errors, lock-ups, or > anything. > > Does anyone know what might be causing this? Yes, I also had this same problem yesterday so I thought I'd take a quick poke at it tonight. The following is a HOW-TO to fix the puppy :) BTW, if u r not like me and don't have access to multiple plan9 boxes (me 2 weeks ago) I attached a compiled 9pcdisk kernel that will do the work shown below. Errr this isnt an email (can u tell ive never subscribed to a news group before?) so I'll upload the kernel to: http://blessedchildren.virtualave.net/plan9/9pcdisk I don't think google will let me post a binary file :( I'm sure this will help u but if it doesnt feel free to email me privately and maybe we can discuss the problem more. I'd like a nicer fix put into the current 9tree for poor hackers like myself ;) ----- start fix how-to ----- 1. find the last known action performed on screen in the kernel XXX free pages YYYK bytes ZZZK swap ^--- this is found in /sys/src/9/port/page.c in pageinit() 2. who calls pageinit? a quick scan of my notes shows main() calls pageinit 3. easy enough so far :) simply add in print calls after the last 4 functions called in main() (main.c) to see if it hangs during any of these functions (schedinit()) shouldn't return /sys/src/9/pc/main.c pageinit(); print("XXX meep! \n"); swapinit(); print("XXX north_ has nice socks \n"); userinit(); print("XXX :) \ n"); schedinit(); print("XXX can i get an amen?!?! \n"); /* shouldnt get here */ } 4. mk 'CONF=pcdisk' 9pcdisk ; w/ the new main.c 5. slap the bootdisk into the troubled 486 and boot into the install procedure 6. wait. 7. wait some more. (dont u love 486? ;)) 8. while we wait take the time to throw 9pcdisk onto a web server somewhere. the plan9 box u made it on, a nice lil freebsd box u have handy, a palm pilot available someplace on your network... errrr maybe that ZoomerPDA u have still sitting around your lab :) 9. ok, once booted into the installation program u should still have the inst file on the floppy. therefore all u need to do is 'startether' and then open a new rc terminal. 9a. BTW, if u used a fresh install disk just skip down to 'archconfig' or whatever (just enough to set up ur ethernet/ppp :)) 10. in rc, hget the 9pcdisk from the web server u have it on hget -o 9pcdisk http://192.168.1.1:8080/p9/9pcdisk 11. bust a `9fat:` 12. copy the original kernel /n/9fat/9pcdisk to /n/9fat/9pcorig or whatever 13. install your 9pcdisk in the /n/9fat/ directory ;) 14. go back to the install window and select 'finish' 15. reboot and watch the magic Apparently what happens is the code goes into an interrupt spin waiting for any interrupt what-so-ever. Well, I first posed this theory to myself when I'd hit CTRL-ALT-DEL when the kernel was supposedly hung and get a big kernel trace dump on the screen. I noticed that once that interrupt was emulated the kernel continued to try and run because it was waiting specifically for an interrupt. There is no other reason for the kernel to attempt to run a normal process during an event which is supposed to set the system into a halted state :) it should be starting shutdown tasks. So, by printing data to the screen we automatically create an interrupt before going into the scheduling 'loop'. This satisfies the kernel on the 486 enough to stop waiting and continue on with normal process. I was immediately tossed into rio :) yay! Its Saturday night, though, so I thought I'd go out and have some fun. Can't fix the entire problem tonight, I will start tomorrow! Best of Luck, north_ http://blessedchildren.virtualave.net/northern p.s. this takes about a total of 10 minutes p.p.s. i need money im poor hehe From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 19:28:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 19:28:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22196 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 19:28:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22192 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 19:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 19:28:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD8D919A3C; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:28:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nigel.9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB42519A37 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:27:41 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware From: nigel@9fs.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-scwrbvmurapowbbtvwuuwpvowm" Message-Id: <20011203102741.BB42519A37@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:27:41 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-scwrbvmurapowbbtvwuuwpvowm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I expect rsc might expand on this, but there are some Pentium functions which are not efficiently emulated by Vmware, which Plan 9 happens to use a lot. This will make some contribution to the slowdown. --upas-scwrbvmurapowbbtvwuuwpvowm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Mon Dec 3 10:31:02 GMT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2479E19A27; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:24:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47A0B19A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:23:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Aq21-00066W-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:09:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: vic Message-ID: Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:08:26 GMT 256MB. The plan 9 vm is configured for 96MB. The machine has a 700MHz PIII. Windows and Linux hum along nicely in vmware. paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es writes: > How much memory do you have?. I have found running other os's under > vmware that there is a high memory threshold under which the system > is too slow to be usable. --upas-scwrbvmurapowbbtvwuuwpvowm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 19:37:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 19:37:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22288 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 19:37:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22283 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 19:37:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 19:37:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0340C19A2A; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:37:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc064.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.64]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D9AE199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:36:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from nanonic.hilbert.space (80-26-99-12.uc.nombres.ttd.es [80.26.99.12]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA25541 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:36:35 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host 80-26-99-12.uc.nombres.ttd.es [80.26.99.12] claimed to be nanonic.hilbert.space Received: from paurea by nanonic.hilbert.space with local (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 16AqS7-0000ZD-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 11:35:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15371.21902.854985.206165@nanonic.hilbert.space> From: paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware In-Reply-To: :vic's message of 10:08:26 Monday,3 December 2001 References: X-Mailer: VM 6.97 under Emacs 20.7.2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:35:58 +0100 vic writes: > 256MB. The plan 9 vm is configured for 96MB. The machine has a > 700MHz PIII. Windows and Linux hum along nicely in vmware. > That seems enough for me. Which is the host operating system?. Verify you don't have any interrupt problems. Disconnect al (virtual) devices like parallel ports and such and see if anything goes better. -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 3 23:48:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 3 23:48:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24967 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Dec 2001 23:48:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24963 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 23:48:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 23:48:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C60A0199EC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:48:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (unknown [205.185.197.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 59329199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:47:09 -0500 (EST) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011203144709.59329199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:49:14 -0500 It's interesting that LT thinks that Linux wasn't designed, but is just a product of random evolution. I always suspected a million monkeys were involved. Ken and Dennis did the designing; everyone else (me included) has just been contributing to local entropy. And intelligent people disagree about there not being a supreme creator. Brantley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 00:25:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 00:25:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25332 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 00:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25327 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 00:25:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 00:25:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 678BC199F2; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:25:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 49152199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:24:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 279265 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 08:24:29 -0700 Received: from snaresland.acl.lanl.gov (128.165.147.113) by acl.lanl.gov with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 08:24:29 -0700 Received: (qmail 24947 invoked by uid 3499); 3 Dec 2001 08:24:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 08:24:29 -0700 From: Ronald G Minnich X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:24:29 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, josh d wrote: > Considering the popularity of Linux vs the popularity of Plan9, he may > have a point. Think about the issues and don't automatically descriminate > because he said something you dislike. I'm not sure it's a fair experiment. Plan 9 made it to "market" ten years after Linux . Still worse, from 1991-2000 ATT/Lucent were actively trying to kill it (though I doubt their management saw it that way ...). I'm kind of hating life with Linux 2.4 series kernels. I keep thinking, "if only I could just cut over to Plan 9 ...". It is easy to make a case that Linux was not designed. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 00:35:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 00:35:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25432 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 00:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25428 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 00:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 00:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E1B919A0F; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:35:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (unknown [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D48B4199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:34:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA04600 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:08:37 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Message-ID: <20011203170836.H788@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Ronald G Minnich on Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 08:24:29AM -0700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:08:36 +0200 On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 08:24:29AM -0700, Ronald G Minnich wrote: > > It is easy to make a case that Linux was not designed. > Minix was designed, I should think. There's merit in evolution, which adjusts to changing conditions, whereas design needs to be predictive. The market place is irrational (my opinion is that it is conditioned by the media in self-interest, but that's a conspiracy theory) so design is doomed to failure. The spin-offs, however will cause mutations in adaptive (and receptive) organisms. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 00:44:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 00:44:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25516 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 00:44:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25512 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 00:44:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 00:44:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49BEA19A11; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:44:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (unknown [205.185.197.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A0D22199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011203154324.A0D22199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:45:26 -0500 > The market place is irrational The market place only LOOKS irrational. It will always use options it understands to make choices to protect its scare resources. Few know about Plan 9 and fewer still understand enough to see its better merits. Ely Whitney almost went broke with his new idea of interchangable parts, but even if he had gone broke the idea of interchangable parts would have survived. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 00:49:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 00:49:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25582 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 00:49:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25578 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 00:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 00:49:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F0FC19A0F; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:49:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.usask.ca (mail.usask.ca [128.233.3.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79B22199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:48:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mail.usask.ca (PMDF V5.2-32 #36834) id <0GNR00A01YL98L@mail.usask.ca> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:48:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.usask.ca ([128.233.3.206]) by mail.usask.ca (PMDF V5.2-32 #36834) with ESMTP id <0GNR00G1VYL9WU@mail.usask.ca> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:48:45 -0600 (CST) From: andrey Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3C0B9EDD.DAB77871@mail.usask.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:48:45 -0600 On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, josh d wrote: > Considering the popularity of Linux vs the popularity of Plan9, he may > have a point. think 'quantity vs quality' of the userbase (me excluded :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 01:09:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 01:09:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25724 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 01:09:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25720 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 01:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 01:09:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70B6219A00; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:09:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D526A1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:08:00 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20011203160800.D526A1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:07:49 -0500 // There's merit in evolution, which adjusts to changing // conditions, whereas design needs to be predictive. why are people talking about design and evolution as though they're mutually exclusive? the plan 9 kernel was, i believe, designed, but it has certainly evolved since the first edition (witness the rift between the file server kernel and the cpu/terminal kernel). we've seen a number of different graphics models in Plan 9, and i believe each of them was designed, but it may also make sense to talk about them as evolutions of each other, based on what practical application in differing environments shows to be better or worse - like natural selection. note the movement of image memory between kernel and userland and the movement of the IP stack (if i'm remembering these right). a good design is one which is simple enough to comfortably allow for reasonable evolution. whereas i agree design _is_ predictave, the results need not be static. ア From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 01:28:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 01:28:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25831 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 01:28:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25827 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 01:28:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 01:28:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 184AB199EC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:28:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 90CD5199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:27:28 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@closedmind.org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011203162728.90CD5199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:27:26 -0500 Anothy stole my thunder. Plan 9 is also a result of years of churn. No original code or interface has survived though some general principles have. - name spaces should be subjective - most objects should live in those name spaces - simplicity is preferable to bells and whistles If anything, we regularly go through and rewrite the kernel and every command if we think something can be done better. It is a research system and we're not very interested in backward compatability and only mildly in a large user community. We steal equally from everyone we can, modulo an NIH attitude that's always hard to shake in a big corp. Linus started with an incredibly detailed design that took years to make usable. He started with the system, library, and user interfaces of a well used and mature system. That's a hell of a lot more design than we stared with in Plan 9 and it's remained a lot more immutable than Plan 9's. I agree with Linus that you can't design and then walk away, but then again, I don't know anyone who would agree with that. It may just seem that way because mature systems eventually bog down under the weight of their own backward compatibility. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 01:31:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 01:31:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25857 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 01:31:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25853 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 01:31:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 01:31:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41A4619A11; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:31:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E23FB199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:30:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA04698 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:04:28 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Message-ID: <20011203180423.J788@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20011203160800.D526A1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20011203160800.D526A1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from anothy@cosym.net on Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 11:07:49AM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:04:23 +0200 On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 11:07:49AM -0500, anothy@cosym.net wrote: > > why are people talking about design and evolution as though > they're mutually exclusive? > To a degree, that's the case, though. Design enforces rigidity and wherever there's flexibility there's also room for error, which is what design attempts to factor out. Flexibility is where adaptation occurs, with fatal mutations more the norm than the exception. > a good design is one which is simple enough to comfortably > allow for reasonable evolution. whereas i agree design _is_ > predictave, the results need not be static. > Simplicity in design (minimalism, in fact) is the ideal, in that its rigidity is limited to essentials and, hopefully, does not apply to the growth/evolution areas. My opinion is that one should formalise useful adaptations and absorb them into a design, which is the way I think we humans operate at an intellectual level. The difficulty is finding the motivation or vision to abandon baggage whose function is exclusively to provide a familiar environment. Remembering that in this forum I suggested not long ago that one should not underestimate the importance of familiarity :-) In this context, familiarity is just another evolutionary pressure and, I must point out, evolution has no foresight, its purpose is to increase the viability of an organism in the present, immediately adjacent environment. The mistake of assuming that evolution is progressive is evident even in Linus Torvald's statement quoted earlier: the implication is that an evolved Linux is somehow "better" that its predecessors. It could be agreed that it is better equipped for survival, but not necessarily superior in some intellectual sense. Materialists may well argue that that is all that counts, of course. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 01:43:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 01:43:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25961 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 01:43:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25957 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 01:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 01:43:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA32E19A17; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:43:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B23A199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:42:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-138.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.138]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id fB3Gg6d09187 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:42:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112031642.fB3Gg6d09187@new-york.lcs.mit.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:42:06 -0500 The problem isn't anything in your vmware configuration. Plan 9 just runs slowly under vmware, and I haven't tracked down all the reasons, although I did find one of them (we use RDMSR 0x10 instead of RDTSC to read the time stamp counter, and under vmware the former is virtualized while the latter can just go through to the processor). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 01:59:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 01:59:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26072 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 01:59:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26068 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 01:59:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 01:59:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21D38199EC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:59:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5450E199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16AwOO-0004Na-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:56:32 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "John S. Dyson" Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <48effcda.0112022010.d4a2c9f@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:55:52 GMT north_ wrote in message news:<48effcda.0112022010.d4a2c9f@posting.google.com>... > Ok, normally I do not take the time to write responses regarding > issues like these. However, I believe Linus is a bit misguided > and I would like to quickly postulate why. This isn't just a > Linux problem. Its a lifestyle problem. You will see why I > believe so in just one second or so ;) > > --- bla bla bla snip --- > > If you want to see a system that was more thoroughly _designed_, you > > should probably point not to Dennis and Ken, but to systems like L4 and > > Plan-9, and people like Jochen Liedtk and Rob Pike. > > > > And notice how they aren't all that popular or well known? "Design" is > > like a religion - too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular. > *G*. > Design is in actuality nothing more than a personal concept. Design > itself is a facade. > Well, most of the Linux (and *BSD) design wasn't done by those who are working on it today. Linux was a copy of a previous design work done by someone else. There might be some superior re-implementation in Linux or *BSD, but claiming that Linux was designed by those who code it would strongly imply that the concepts were also authored. Without the template provided by previous UNIX implementations, there would not have been a template for Linux or *BSD. There is some common source heritage between BSD and SVR4, but the seed design certainly came from a couple of Bell Labs guys. In an informal sense, the Linux developers might claim that they designed the code. However, making the proclaimation that Linux was designed starting with the first line of code written for it would be rather overstated. Linux was essentially DESIGNED (but not IMPLEMENTED) before the first line of code was written. John From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 01:59:47 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 01:59:47 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26084 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 01:59:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26080 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 01:59:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 01:59:46 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB4DB19A26; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:59:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3661D199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:58:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16AwLx-0004JX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:54:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: vic Message-ID: Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:52:34 GMT The host is linux. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 03:17:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 03:17:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26528 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 03:17:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26524 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 03:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 03:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32E32199EC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:17:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A434199E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16AxRi-0006Mx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ozan Yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:03:36 GMT josh d writes: [re: linus commentary on design] > Considering the popularity of Linux vs the popularity of Plan9, he may > have a point. Think about the issues and don't automatically descriminate > because he said something you dislike. i for one classify what linus says about design in the same category of the "cathedral and the bazaar" proclamations. this is shallow stuff that happens to have the right sound-bite quotient; ideal for the masses that want quick, cheap bits of wisdom. i wish someone would do to this what perlman does to network protocol design. or perhaps i misunderstand all of it: there may be a taoist undercurrent here: the design (tao) had best be left at rest. like little birdies at their nest. so linus did not "design" linux, but it is emergent. it makes my head spin. oz --- www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz | narrowness of imagination leads to york u. computer science | narrowness of experience. - oz [corollary to rob] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 05:52:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 05:52:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27387 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 05:52:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27383 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 05:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 05:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8B28199EC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:52:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducky.net (ducky.net [199.26.172.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77614199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:51:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) id fB3KpBL02297 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:51:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200112032051.fB3KpBL02297@ducky.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems In-Reply-To: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:51:11 -0800 (PST) I suspect one important factor in the popularity of Linux is the relative openness of the development process of Linux. There are regular releases of the latest version of the code, even when there are works in progress that aren't finished yet. By contrast the Plan 9 developers are constantly dropping all these hints about how great the next thing will be, but the rest of us never get to see any code until it's "done" -- and big changes take a long time. I think Plan 9 would have a more enthusiastic following if the ongoing development tree were out there for everyone to see (and contribute to). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 06:32:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 06:32:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27508 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 06:32:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27504 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 06:32:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 06:32:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE757199EC; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:32:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 13367199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:31:40 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011203213140.13367199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:31:38 -0500 > It's interesting that LT thinks that Linux wasn't designed, but is just > a product of random evolution. I always suspected a million monkeys were > involved. By this criterion alone, with our without the jokey extra sentence, it's hard to distinguish Linux from Windows. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 06:35:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 06:35:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27522 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 06:35:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27518 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 06:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 06:35:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3BC919A0F; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:35:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 36869199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:34:59 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011203213459.36869199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:34:55 -0500 > I think Plan 9 would have a more enthusiastic following > if the ongoing development tree were out there for everyone > to see (and contribute to). I agree. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 07:02:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 07:02:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27617 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 07:02:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27613 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 07:02:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 07:02:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75A3F199EE; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:02:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B18E5199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:01:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from binet.math.psu.edu (binet.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.203]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:01:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (viro@localhost) by binet.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17789 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:01:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: binet.math.psu.edu: viro owned process doing -bs From: Alexander Viro To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems In-Reply-To: <20011203213459.36869199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:01:49 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, rob pike wrote: > > I think Plan 9 would have a more enthusiastic following > > if the ongoing development tree were out there for everyone > > to see (and contribute to). > > I agree. Hmm... I doubt that "for everyone to contribute" is a good thing, but seeing is a different story... Visible /lib and /src would be Real Nice(tm) - subset you can legally distribute rsync'ed with external well-connected box to avoid eating bandwidth on your side... Finding such box wouldn't be a problem, the question is whether you want/can do that. Up to you, indeed... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 07:25:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 07:25:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27696 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 07:25:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27692 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 07:25:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 07:25:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E05B199EE; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:25:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7239199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:24:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27586; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:24:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:94/bxteyqRly8hGt+OGpGnnSjbslDJtg@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09463; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:24:08 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200112032224.XAA09463@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] python In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Dec 2001 04:39:10 EST." <20011202093912.ED449199BF@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 23:24:05 +0100 Kenji Arisawa also has a 1.5.2 python port. Look: ftp://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/import/ or ftp://ar.aichi-u.ac.jp/plan9/import/ Laura Creighton . From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 07:40:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 07:40:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27767 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 07:40:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27763 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 07:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 07:40:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C517D19A0F; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:40:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82643199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28041; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:39:28 +0100 (MET) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:sYELNLSAe66hj7CJ4QMrWN9M+3+dgx+K@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09571; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:39:27 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200112032239.XAA09571@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:32:52 GMT." <200111290732.HAA01786@localhost.localdomain> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 23:39:24 +0100 Filesystems are very nice things, but before you spend a lot of time inventing an improved CVS consider -- is the _file_ the basic unit you wish in developing software? I want something smaller. I would dearly like a way to indicate that this file has now become 2 files, and that class no longer lives in this one. So I do not wish to see old hacked versions of that class magically reappearing in this file every month as more people check in code. The other great problem that I have is that in the middle of hacking up something, I discover a memory leak. Usually when I find one, I find a pattern that happens all over the code base. I now want to stop whatever I am doing, get a new fresh version of the code base, and fix the memory leak once and for all throughout everything. I do not wish either to lose my current hacking, or have to finish them before I can go kill that memory leak. Currently, I mostly cheat. I go to another machine, and log in as another user I have created for that purpose, and nail the memory leak. Then I go back to being me, and back to what I was hacking on. That I find this the most convenient way to solve a problem I have all the time is an indication that my usual work habits and the work habits assumed by cvs do not mesh well. I think we had better figure out what we want in a CVS replacement before we start replacing it. I want to tag things at the per object level. What do the rest of you want? Laura Creighton From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 07:51:20 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 07:51:20 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27826 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 07:51:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27822 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 07:51:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 07:51:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DA8819A10; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:51:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 58E71199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:50:25 -0500 (EST) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011203225025.58E71199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:50:23 -0500 On Mon Dec 3 15:52:18 EST 2001, mike@ducky.net wrote: On Mon Dec 3 15:52:18 EST 2001, mike@ducky.net wrote: > I suspect one important factor in the popularity of Linux > is the relative openness of the development process of Linux. > There are regular releases of the latest version of the > code, even when there are works in progress that aren't > finished yet. > > By contrast the Plan 9 developers are constantly dropping > all these hints about how great the next thing will be, > but the rest of us never get to see any code until it's > "done" -- and big changes take a long time. > > I think Plan 9 would have a more enthusiastic following > if the ongoing development tree were out there for everyone > to see (and contribute to). Do we hint that the next thing will be great? If so, we should stop. It may or may not be great but it will be different, I think that's about as far as I'd be willing to go. The plan is to put a fileserver on the outside for everyone to access. The details and time-line are still foggy as they rely on 2 of the 'big changes' - new authentication and a reworking of the fileserver code. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 10:56:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 10:56:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31637 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 10:56:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31633 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 10:56:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 10:56:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23A75199EA; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:56:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D00C7199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:55:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"i/xFjUQPazexXYd178q/vEfgP+FzuACucQiC19ActARwk7Kdrj6ARA=="> Received: (from msenecal1@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GMSF3SGG; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:55:39 EST To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20011203.175739.-168013.1.msenecal1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-8,11-14,16-17,19-20 From: Matthew W Senecal Subject: [9fans] Plan-9 Compatible hardware available Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:56:20 -0800 Fellow Plan 9 enthusiasts: I have the following items available to whomever wants them, first come, first served: 1 VESA video card, Cirrus Logic GD5429 chipset 1 ISA NE200 NIC, BNC and DB15 connectors only 2 3Com Etherlink 3 ISA NICs, RJ-45 and DB-15 connectors only If you need any of the above items, please e-mail me directly at: msenecal@logicon.com. The only cost to you is shipping. As my project goes on (and ends) I'll have more of this kind of stuff. ---Matt ************************************************************************* ********* There's nothing more dangerous than a resourceful idiot. ---Dilbert ************************************************************************* ********* Matt Senecal, Logicon-INRI (619)-553-4891 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 19:36:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 19:36:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11092 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 19:36:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11088 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 19:36:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 19:36:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59A09199EA; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:36:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 373C71998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:35:37 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011204103537.373C71998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:36:22 0000 >>The plan is to put a fileserver on the outside for everyone to access. we were going to do that here once but our bandwidth is a bit limited for general file server access by more than a small group of people. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 4 20:27:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 4 20:27:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11724 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Dec 2001 20:27:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11720 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 20:27:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 20:27:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 237CD199EA; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 06:27:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAF2F199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 06:26:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03532 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:26:15 +0100 (MET) From: Laura Creighton Received: (from lac@localhost) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) id MAA13954 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:26:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200112041126.MAA13954@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] anybody know anything about Inside Out Networks? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:26:15 +0100 (MET) http://www.ionetworks.com/rac.html According to the Swedish article I am reading in Ny Teknik (p 24 in case there are any Swedes here) they have a piece of hardware. You put your USB device in the hardware, and you get ethernet packets out the other end. I think the product name is 'Anywhere USB Remote Concentrator' and they are supposed to be shipping in the new year. Pricing is unknown. Laura Creighton From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 5 02:26:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 5 02:26:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15051 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Dec 2001 02:26:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15047 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 02:26:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 02:26:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEB5319A11; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:26:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from quanstro.net (ninilchik.quanstro.net [66.92.161.167]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EE861998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:25:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by quanstro.net (Postfix, from userid 210) id 411EF3F414; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:27:44 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: erik quanstrom Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Message-Id: <20011204172744.411EF3F414@quanstro.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:27:44 -0500 (EST) > On Mon Dec 3 15:52:18 EST 2001, mike@ducky.net wrote: > > I suspect one important factor in the popularity of Linux > > is the relative openness of the development process of Linux. > > There are regular releases of the latest version of the > > code, even when there are works in progress that aren't > > finished yet. > > > > By contrast the Plan 9 developers are constantly dropping > > all these hints about how great the next thing will be, > > but the rest of us never get to see any code until it's > > "done" -- and big changes take a long time. > > > > I think Plan 9 would have a more enthusiastic following > > if the ongoing development tree were out there for everyone > > to see (and contribute to). > > Do we hint that the next thing will be great? If so, we should stop. > It may or may not be great but it will be different, I think that's > about as far as I'd be willing to go. in so many words, i think so. 9p2000 has been talked about on this list for quite some time now. (i'm waiting with baited breath to see it.) and rather than somebody /saying/ that the next thing will be great, i think that folks have gotten excited to see the 9p2000 without any hype. i know i have. don't stop dropping tidbits. they're interesting. but i think mike's point is that having something akin to (for lack of a better analogy) the linux development series (e.g. x.y.z where y is odd) would be a Good Thing. of course, doing this isn't free. it takes time & effort to release. and releasing early & often take time early & often. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 5 04:06:31 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 5 04:06:31 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15560 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Dec 2001 04:06:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15556 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 04:06:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 04:06:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0BDB19A11; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:06:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A21791998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:05:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09685 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:05:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id OAA14111; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:05:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112041905.OAA14111@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: <20011203213459.36869199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:05:04 -0500 (EST) In article you write: >Hmm... I doubt that "for everyone to contribute" is a good thing, >but seeing is a different story... Nonsense. Everyong is free to contribute. But, contribution is not synonymous with acceptance. The labs might run into another problem if development source is there for all to pick at. Surely they will receive a ton of patches for things that they're already aware of, have already fixed but not synced to the outside fileserver, or are still experimental and changing rapidly. The cost in terms of time and resources to sift through what comes in from the outside could be non-trivial. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 5 07:00:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 5 07:00:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16249 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Dec 2001 07:00:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16245 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 07:00:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 07:00:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DC8F19A2D; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:00:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43DA419A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:59:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from binet.math.psu.edu (binet.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.203]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10247 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:59:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (viro@localhost) by binet.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21236 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:59:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: binet.math.psu.edu: viro owned process doing -bs From: Alexander Viro To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems In-Reply-To: <200112041905.OAA14111@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:59:07 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Dan Cross wrote: > In article you write: > >Hmm... I doubt that "for everyone to contribute" is a good thing, > >but seeing is a different story... > > Nonsense. Everyong is free to contribute. But, contribution is not > synonymous with acceptance. well, provided that your .procmailrc is well-maintained - sure. You _really_ don't want to see the... contributions from Qlogics SCSI folks. Or Intel folks who do NIC drivers. There are less harmful ways to take a second look at your last meal... > The labs might run into another problem if development source is there > for all to pick at. Surely they will receive a ton of patches for things > that they're already aware of, have already fixed but not synced to the > outside fileserver, or are still experimental and changing rapidly. The > cost in terms of time and resources to sift through what comes in from > the outside could be non-trivial. _That_ is easy to deal with - /* XXX: Yes, I know. It's crap. Working on that. */ is usually enough for stuff that stays for a week or so and for very recent breakage you have not too may places you've just touched, so sorting is not a big deal... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 5 17:51:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 5 17:51:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31054 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Dec 2001 17:51:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31049 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 17:51:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 17:51:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E212419A28; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 03:51:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6ECBF199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 03:50:11 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iojlkhyephtmjxbomjxkcjbznl" Message-Id: <20011205085011.6ECBF199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:49:48 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iojlkhyephtmjxbomjxkcjbznl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although our network is not too reliable, I'm willing to put such a file server here at escet.urjc.es. --upas-iojlkhyephtmjxbomjxkcjbznl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Dec 4 11:36:26 MET 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59A09199EA; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:36:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 373C71998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:35:37 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@vitanuova.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011204103537.373C71998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:36:22 0000 >>The plan is to put a fileserver on the outside for everyone to access. we were going to do that here once but our bandwidth is a bit limited for general file server access by more than a small group of people. --upas-iojlkhyephtmjxbomjxkcjbznl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 5 19:01:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 5 19:01:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32348 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Dec 2001 19:01:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32343 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 19:01:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 19:01:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAB5F19A2A; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:01:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 909EB199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16BYnN-0005VX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:56:53 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C0D65C0.457E5C4E@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <48effcda.0112022010.d4a2c9f@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:56:33 GMT north_ wrote: > Design is in actuality nothing more than a personal concept. Design > itself is a facade. ... ? Design is a process by which requirements are combined with resources, knowledge, and experience to produce a sufficiently good solution. The hardest part is getting a handle on the *real* requirements, as experienced systems analysts can attest. For example, one Plan 9 requirement seems to be that the people working on its development have fun doing that, so any design that doesn't take that into account would be a poor one. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 5 19:01:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 5 19:01:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32356 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Dec 2001 19:01:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32352 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 19:01:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 19:01:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2CE519A30; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:01:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA47C199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:00:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16BYmq-0005UG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:56:20 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: josh d Message-ID: Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Subject: [9fans] installation problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:56:17 GMT I'm having trouble installing Plan9 on my x86. Keep in mind that I've switched out both the installation CD as well as the target hard drive, and the problem remains the same. When the installation program is unpacking the file system to disk, it gets around 99% done and gives me this error: "write /n/kfs/386/bin si: copy error; copy ran out of input". It continues on, and when i get to the prompt to create a boot floppy, right before that choice it prints: "addint file /386/9load length 14560 cp: can't stat /n/kfs/386/9pcdisk: file does not exist" Then i create the boot disk and when I boot from it, it says "operating system not found". Super duper. Anyone know what's going on? thanks josh From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 5 23:10:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 5 23:10:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3103 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Dec 2001 23:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3099 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 23:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 23:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6F0519A30; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:10:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from droid.nosc.mil (droid.nosc.mil [128.49.4.117]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C86519A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:09:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from Oddball.spawar.navy.mil (route66.nosc.mil [128.49.190.102]) by droid.nosc.mil (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fB5E92W20492 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:09:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205060615.00a800c0@arcturus.spawar.navy.mil> X-Sender: senecal@arcturus.spawar.navy.mil X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matt Senecal Subject: Re: [9fans] installation problems In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 06:09:02 -0800 > When the installation program is unpacking the file system to disk, it >gets around 99% done and gives me this error: "write /n/kfs/386/bin si: copy >error; copy ran out of input". I had this problem once installing onto my '486 terminal. I don't know what caused it, but I solved it by completely re-starting the installation process. I have installed several times since then onto the same hardware, and have never had that problem again. ---Matt ---------------------------------------------------------- There's nothing more dangerous than a resourceful idiot. ---------------------------------------------------------- Matt Senecal Northrop Grumman Information Technology Logicon-INRI Division E-mail: msenecal@logicon.com Web: http://msenecal.tripod.com/ Phone: (619)-553-4891 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 00:23:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 00:23:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3825 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 00:23:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3821 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 00:23:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 00:23:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAAAF19A29; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:23:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducksworth.com (unknown [216.62.194.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2AD319A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:22:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB5EVxE58571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:32:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] installation problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:31:59 -0600 (CST) i have also ran into a similar problem. i ended up resetting the bios to defaults and restarting the installation again. i am not exactly sure what i did to cause the problem, but i think it had something to do with changes that i made to the pci/isa and pnp configuration options to get another os to work on that board. hope that helps --sam On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, josh d wrote: > > I'm having trouble installing Plan9 on my x86. Keep in > mind that I've switched out both the installation CD as well as the target > hard drive, and the problem remains the same. > > When the installation program is unpacking the file system to disk, it > gets around 99% done and gives me this error: "write /n/kfs/386/bin si: copy > error; copy ran out of input". > > It continues on, and when i get to the prompt to create a boot floppy, > right before that choice it prints: > > "addint file /386/9load length 14560 cp: can't stat /n/kfs/386/9pcdisk: > file does not exist" > > Then i create the boot disk and when I boot from it, it says "operating > system not found". Super duper. Anyone know what's going on? > > thanks > josh > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 01:45:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 01:45:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4483 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 01:45:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4479 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 01:45:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 01:45:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3B5519A32; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:45:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D7BA199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Beur-0001sE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:29:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Daniel Warmuth Message-ID: <9uldt5$927ec$1@ID-12283.news.dfncis.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 kills partition table Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:28:42 GMT Hi, I installed Plan 9 onto a 20 GB disk with one 1 GB primary partition for Plan 9. When the installation is finished and I try to reboot, nothing works. When I look into fdisk, it tells me that the partition table is unreadable or corrupted or something. How to avoid that? Thanks in advance :) Ciao, Daniel -- "Eine falsch abgetrennte Signatur ist keine Signatur und braucht deshalb nicht richtig abgetrennt zu sein." (Andreas Kneib in de.comp.os.unix.linux.misc) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 01:45:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 01:45:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4490 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 01:45:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4486 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 01:45:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 01:45:45 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74B5719A38; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:45:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C432199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:44:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16BevO-0001uH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:29:34 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <9ulc8t$d4a$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <3C07FD09.5A721363@mail.usask.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 source browser? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:29:03 GMT Hi andrey, > the plan9 source browser has been down for several days now. i know > the disclaimer says there is no guarantee that the machine is going > to be up at all, however it would be nice if p9-less people (without > local installation) could access the source... > > the site i'm referring to is: > http://offworld.fac.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/9login Yes, I too missed it being there this morning when I wanted to look something up. Anyone know if it's gone forever? Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 01:59:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 01:59:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4604 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 01:59:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4600 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 01:59:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 01:59:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F7E519A41; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:59:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C0E72199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:58:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.230.204]) by plan9; Wed Dec 5 11:58:17 EST 2001 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 kills partition table From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011205165818.C0E72199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:58:15 -0500 What other partitions do you have on the disk? What is your real email address? Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 02:15:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 02:15:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4749 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 02:15:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4745 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 02:15:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 02:15:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56A2419A4A; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:15:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6528B19A46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:14:26 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011205171426.6528B19A46@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] dumb udp broadcast question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:14:11 +0100 Hi, I must be in idiot mode today, but don't manage to get an udp broadcast sent. AFAIK, the `server' has just to announce the udp address, print "headers" to the ctl file, and read data. And my dumb test program seems to do so. Should the client just dial net!ipbroadcastaddress!port and write the data? thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 02:19:19 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 02:19:19 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 4786 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 02:19:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4782 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 02:19:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 02:19:18 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 705FF19A4E; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:19:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1EF3E19A46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.230.204]) by plan9; Wed Dec 5 12:18:38 EST 2001 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dumb udp broadcast question From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011205171840.1EF3E19A46@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:18:37 -0500 If you're in headers mode, you need to fill in the header with a broadcast address and then write the data out. Look at /sys/src/cmd/ip/dhcpclient.c From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 16:30:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 16:30:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17615 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 16:30:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17611 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 16:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 16:30:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A029519A00; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:30:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 90885199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.230.204]) by plan9; Thu Dec 6 02:29:30 EST 2001 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011206072931.90885199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] python Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:29:29 -0500 g% 8.out 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback Python 2.0.1 (#0, Dec 6 2001, 02:11:16) [C] on unknown Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from plan9 import * >>> from plan9 import _exits # underscore hides from * >>> read(open("/dev/sysname", OREAD), 100) '17genr' >>> if rfork(RFPROC)==0: ... write(2, "child\n") ... _exits("") ... else: ... write(2, "parent\n") ... child parent 7 >>> it's still rough, but i'm willing to put it into lucio's cvs repository so people can hack on getting it up to speed. send me mail if you're interested. unlike the other os-specific modules, i think the plan9 one should include just the system calls and then have the rest implemented as python code rather than the fairly difficult c layering. the eventual goal is to bring in the ``stackless python'' patches, so we can have really cheap continuations and build a csp-style threading module that has neither stack overflow concerns nor ridiculously large stacks. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 16:44:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 16:44:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17982 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 16:44:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17977 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 16:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 16:44:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9821719A2B; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:44:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (unknown [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05DFA199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:42:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA15725 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:17:03 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] python Message-ID: <20011206091702.B12430@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20011206072931.90885199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20011206072931.90885199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from Russ Cox on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 02:29:29AM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:17:02 +0200 On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 02:29:29AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > it's still rough, but i'm willing to put it into > lucio's cvs repository so people can hack > on getting it up to speed. send me mail if you're > interested. > Russ, did I give you a password (in clear, just to bother Boyd :-)? Let me know if anything doesn't behave as expected. The host is a little overwrought, specially an hour or so either side of 08:00 local (UT+0200) and the Internet link is 64kbps, so don't expect skid marks. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 16:52:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 16:52:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18246 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 16:52:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18241 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 16:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 16:52:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4FA719A2E; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:52:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C08F1199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:51:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.230.204]) by plan9; Thu Dec 6 02:51:11 EST 2001 From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011206075112.C08F1199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] moscow ml Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:51:09 -0500 more on the random language front. http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~rsc/mosml.9gz contains an update (long-awaited, i'm sure) to mosml that fixes some problems in the bootstrap process and finally gets the online help and the compiler working. g% cat hello.sml val _ = print "hello world\n"; g% mosmlc hello.sml g% ./a.out hello world g% russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 6 18:50:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 6 18:50:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21516 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Dec 2001 18:50:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21512 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 18:50:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 18:50:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C7AA199FA; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 04:50:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4CD3199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 04:49:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Bv1R-0004nf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 09:40:53 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Daniel Warmuth Message-ID: <9um0g0$9djqk$1@ID-12283.news.dfncis.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20011205165818.C0E72199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 kills partition table Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:40:14 GMT Hi, Russ Cox: > What other partitions do you have on the disk? I have (in this order): 7 GB NTFS primary, 2 GB unpartioned primary, 1 GB Plan9 primary, 200 MB FAT16 logical, around 3 GB unpartitoned logical, 7 GB BFS (BeOS) logical. > What is your real email address? My real email address is the one shown in the headers: realname@uni.de ;-) Ciao, Daniel -- "Eine falsch abgetrennte Signatur ist keine Signatur und braucht deshalb nicht richtig abgetrennt zu sein." (Andreas Kneib in de.comp.os.unix.linux.misc) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 00:55:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 00:55:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26117 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 00:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26113 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 00:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 00:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACF62199F3; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:55:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0D99F199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:54:35 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] moscow ml From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20011206155435.0D99F199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:54:27 -0500 thanks, russ, but as you can see, my results are somewhat different: % cat hello.sml val _ = print "hello world\n"; % mosmlc hello.sml camlrunm 11329: bad sys call number 42 pc 18d1a camlrunm 11329: suicide: sys: bad sys call pc=0x00018d1a % i havn't installed the Dec4 or Nov22 updates yet; are they required? seems unlikely, given the description on the web pages. mk'ing from scratch doesn't work, either, since the camlrunm and mosmlyac binaries fail for similar syscall reasons, and the mkfiles don't know how to rebuild them. i've not attached a debugger, but my sys.h dosn't have a syscall #42 (if i'm reading that error right). while we're on the question of what updates are required for what, i'd like to say i _really_ like the inclusin of a list of changes, as found with the Apr25-Jun5 packages. can we get more of that? ア From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 01:09:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 01:09:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26219 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 01:09:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26215 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 01:09:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 01:09:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 045C519A18; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:09:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0D3CA199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:08:15 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] moscow ml From: forsyth@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-auuufespxgxbmvhhfittpbjonc" Message-Id: <20011206160815.0D3CA199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:14:47 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-auuufespxgxbmvhhfittpbjonc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i suspect it's one of the new system calls, or rather, the new version of an old call (stat). --upas-auuufespxgxbmvhhfittpbjonc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1007654362:10:25954:1; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:59:22 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1109133; 6 Dec 2001 15:56 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECF76199ED; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:55:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0D99F199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:54:35 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] moscow ml MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20011206155435.0D99F199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:54:27 -0500 thanks, russ, but as you can see, my results are somewhat different: % cat hello.sml val _ = print "hello world\n"; % mosmlc hello.sml camlrunm 11329: bad sys call number 42 pc 18d1a camlrunm 11329: suicide: sys: bad sys call pc=0x00018d1a % i havn't installed the Dec4 or Nov22 updates yet; are they required? seems unlikely, given the description on the web pages. mk'ing from scratch doesn't work, either, since the camlrunm and mosmlyac binaries fail for similar syscall reasons, and the mkfiles don't know how to rebuild them. i've not attached a debugger, but my sys.h dosn't have a syscall #42 (if i'm reading that error right). while we're on the question of what updates are required for what, i'd like to say i _really_ like the inclusin of a list of changes, as found with the Apr25-Jun5 packages. can we get more of that? --upas-auuufespxgxbmvhhfittpbjonc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 01:13:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 01:13:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26317 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 01:13:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26313 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 01:13:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 01:13:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0017719A2C; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:13:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 543C819A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:12:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 444613 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2001 09:12:25 -0700 Received: from snaresland.acl.lanl.gov (128.165.147.113) by acl.lanl.gov with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 09:12:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 17735 invoked by uid 3499); 6 Dec 2001 09:12:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Dec 2001 09:12:24 -0700 From: Ronald G Minnich X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20011206072931.90885199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] My "plan9" stuff for Linux (last reference, I promise) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:12:24 -0700 (MST) v9fs.sourceforge.net, source and docs. Now builds on redhat and the demo works (i.e. you can run /bin/cat and it will read the file from the "9p" server). More details on the web page. VFS work for 2.4 in progress (you can't do exec unless you have a VFS). There was major dry rot from 2.5 years of storage and the upgrade from redhat 5 to redhat 7 is still not quite done. mail list: majordomo@lanl.gov, subscribe v9fs Amusement time, I learned just how much shared libraries suck. So nice that Plan 9 did not fall down that rathole. Masataka Ohta, where are you now? You were right all along. Here's a simple example: /bin/cat /bin/cat /etc/hosts: opens 18 files (if no error); 323 symbol fixups. many of the symbol fixups are for identical function (e.g. open, open64, __open, __libc_open, etc). Some fraction of gcc lib is 64-bit-ized, some is not. There are > 5 different symbol versions supported: 2.0, 2.1, 2.1.3, 2.2, 2.2.something. This is in one library. So the version number 2.2.2 on the file for libc-2.2.2.so is not really at all useful, except maybe as a ceiling on version number. Library-specific optimization: there is now a /lib/i686, and a /lib/i386. Libraries are compiled different ways, and then you link to the right one for your cpu. It's getting to the point where you no longer can make the case that shared libraries save lots of space (unless you have a badly designed windowing system or something). Yikes, my brain hurts. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 01:15:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 01:15:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26350 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 01:15:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26346 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 01:15:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 01:15:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9D9819A30; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:15:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ECDB19A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:14:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16C0wa-0005BZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:00:16 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <9uo143$e71$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20011128185430.958E519A33@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <062201c178c5$e7460260$b6f7c6d4@cybercable.fr> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:59:13 GMT Hi Boyd, > MH is too interactive. I agree its interface isn't great for scripting. > IIRC you couldn't use B as your $EDITOR with MH comp. You use its -editor option? % comp -editor true What now? q -d > With sam you could have multiple messages being edited at once and > you del[iver] them as needed. With MH you have a folder called drafts and comp starts a new draft or you can say `comp -u 4' to resume draft number four. As it's just another mail folder in other respects, commands like rmm work on it too. % comp -editor prargv 0 '/home/ralph/bin/prargv' 1 '/home/ralph/mail/drafts/5' What now? q -d Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 01:54:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 01:54:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26622 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 01:54:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26618 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 01:54:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 01:54:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE232199FA; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:54:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CECF199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:53:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB6GrrBv031171 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:53:53 +0100 Message-ID: <3C0FA2A2.C823846C@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My "plan9" stuff for Linux (last reference, I promise) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:53:54 +0100 > Amusement time, I learned just how much shared libraries suck. So nice > that Plan 9 did not fall down that rathole. Masataka Ohta, where are you > now? You were right all along. Yes, IIRC the (well hidden stats) were that the binaries were much smaller, but the execution time and memory usage skyrocketed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 01:59:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 01:59:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26641 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 01:59:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26637 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 01:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 01:59:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B21119A05; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:59:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from devil.lucid (pc1-dale5-0-cust136.not.cable.ntl.com [80.1.76.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF363199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:58:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from there (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by devil.lucid (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fB6Gw7T07665 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:58:08 GMT (envelope-from matt@proweb.co.uk) Message-Id: <200112061658.fB6Gw7T07665@devil.lucid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Matt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My "plan9" stuff for Linux (last reference, I promise) X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:57:59 +0000 On Thursday 06 December 2001 16:12, you wrote: > Masataka Ohta, where are you > now? You were right all along. could be here : http://www.takagi-ryo.ac/references/2001/107-mohta.shtml but I can't read any of it. M From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 02:15:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 02:15:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26730 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 02:15:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26726 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 02:15:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 02:15:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91F4819A25; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:15:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55909199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:14:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16C1rR-0006ku-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:59:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <9uo6ca$hff$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <4150.1007015501@apnic.net>, <055b01c178a4$f640dc20$b6f7c6d4@cybercable.fr> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:56:43 GMT > There is a fundemental design flaw in 'comp'. When you quit the > editor it says (IIRC): > > What now? It's whatnow(1) that says that, not comp(1). That's why you get the same `whatnow' prompt from repl(1), dist(1), etc. > Well this is just no good. Composition and delivery should be > decoupled and you should be able to edit multiple messages at once > and deliver them at will. comp is targetted at the interactive user. Perhaps you want MH's send(1) and post(8) programs instead? Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 02:33:31 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 02:33:31 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26849 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 02:33:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26845 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 02:33:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 02:33:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34B3619A25; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:33:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F513199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:32:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB6HWwBv031854 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:32:58 +0100 Message-ID: <3C0FABCB.D40850B9@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem References: <4150.1007015501@apnic.net>, <055b01c178a4$f640dc20$b6f7c6d4@cybercable.fr> <9uo6ca$hff$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 18:32:59 +0100 > comp is targetted at the interactive user. Perhaps you want MH's > send(1) and post(8) programs instead? I understand what you are saying, but it's not what I want or wanted so I wrote it myself. Unfortunately I put a WIP on the web. I have to do a small amount of work to fix it. RFC 822 goes to all this trouble to have this horrendously, useless complexity for the addresses and then decides on a context sensitive grammar for the Received: fields. Being able to walk them (which was my plan) and to send mail to abuse or postmaster for every host that touched the spam was my idea of backpressure :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 02:44:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 02:44:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26933 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 02:44:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26929 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 02:44:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 02:44:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44C5A19A05; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:44:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FEC1199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:43:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16C25y-00074f-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:14:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: D De Villiers <~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za> Message-ID: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Organization: The South African Internet Exchange Subject: [9fans] Plan9 Programming languages ! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:13:44 GMT Hello! I just got my first copy of Plan9 - I am a software developer/programmer and wanna know what languages are there avialable for Plan9 development? Any Delphi/Pascal, Java, Perl implementation etc ? (only know about C language). Regards, Lennie De Villiers --- Remove ~ and 9s from e-mail address to reply --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 02:49:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 02:49:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26953 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 02:49:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26948 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 02:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 02:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE5EE19A25; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:49:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9C03199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-138.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.138]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id fB6HmTd20461 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:48:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112061748.fB6HmTd20461@new-york.lcs.mit.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] moscow ml From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:48:27 -0500 okay, i'm an idiot. sorry. cd /sys/src/cmd/mosml mk install should fix everything. as forsyth correctly guessed, the binaries are for the wrong version of plan 9. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 03:18:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 03:18:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27211 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 03:18:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27207 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 03:18:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 03:18:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B26FD19A18; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:18:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from droid.nosc.mil (droid.nosc.mil [128.49.4.117]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DBB5199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:17:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from Oddball.spawar.navy.mil (route66.nosc.mil [128.49.190.102]) by droid.nosc.mil (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fB6IHRW21543 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:17:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011206101530.00a737c8@arcturus.spawar.navy.mil> X-Sender: senecal@arcturus.spawar.navy.mil X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matt Senecal Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 Programming languages ! In-Reply-To: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:17:27 -0800 >Any >Delphi/Pascal, Java, Perl implementation etc ? (only know about C language). Re. Perl: Take a look at: http://cpan.valueclick.com/ports/index.html#plan9 and http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/ for a Perl 4 port. ---Matt ---------------------------------------------------------- There's nothing more dangerous than a resourceful idiot. ---------------------------------------------------------- Matt Senecal Northrop Grumman Information Technology Logicon-INRI Division E-mail: msenecal@logicon.com Web: http://msenecal.tripod.com/ Phone: (619)-553-4891 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 04:03:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 04:03:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27511 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 04:03:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27507 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 04:03:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 04:03:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 422FC199FA; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:03:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mxzilla4.xs4all.nl (mxzilla4.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.48]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE300199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from xs3.xs4all.nl (wstan@xs3.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.44]) by mxzilla4.xs4all.nl (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id fB6J2rtX042772 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:02:53 +0100 (CET) Received: (from wstan@localhost) by xs3.xs4all.nl (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA12628 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:02:53 +0100 (CET) From: "William S ." To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 Programming languages ! Message-ID: <20011206200253.A7006@xs4all.nl> References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>; from ~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 05:13:44PM +0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: wilby98@yahoo.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:02:53 +0100 I have seen Limbo mentioned before. I am not a programmer but it might be worth checking out. Perhaps others could elaborate more. Bill Amsterdam, NL On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 05:13:44PM +0000, D De Villiers wrote: > Hello! > > I just got my first copy of Plan9 - I am a software developer/programmer and > wanna know what languages are there avialable for Plan9 development? Any > Delphi/Pascal, Java, Perl implementation etc ? (only know about C language). > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 04:20:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 04:20:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27633 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 04:20:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27629 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 04:20:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 04:20:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B124E19A29; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:20:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9B599199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:19:28 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@closedmind.org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 Programming languages ! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yqgrzzmkmfrxiwahzfeezuvrvy" Message-Id: <20011206191928.9B599199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:19:24 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yqgrzzmkmfrxiwahzfeezuvrvy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Limbo is where you are when you're trying to boot Plan 9 for the first time and you haven't been baptised in the proper mind set. --upas-yqgrzzmkmfrxiwahzfeezuvrvy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Dec 6 14:03:19 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F1EB199ED; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:03:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mxzilla4.xs4all.nl (mxzilla4.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.48]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE300199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from xs3.xs4all.nl (wstan@xs3.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.44]) by mxzilla4.xs4all.nl (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id fB6J2rtX042772 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:02:53 +0100 (CET) Received: (from wstan@localhost) by xs3.xs4all.nl (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA12628 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:02:53 +0100 (CET) From: "William S ." To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 Programming languages ! Message-ID: <20011206200253.A7006@xs4all.nl> References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>; from ~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 05:13:44PM +0000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: wilby98@yahoo.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:02:53 +0100 I have seen Limbo mentioned before. I am not a programmer but it might be worth checking out. Perhaps others could elaborate more. Bill Amsterdam, NL On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 05:13:44PM +0000, D De Villiers wrote: > Hello! > > I just got my first copy of Plan9 - I am a software developer/programmer and > wanna know what languages are there avialable for Plan9 development? Any > Delphi/Pascal, Java, Perl implementation etc ? (only know about C language). > --upas-yqgrzzmkmfrxiwahzfeezuvrvy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 16:08:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 16:08:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7801 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 16:08:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7797 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 16:08:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 16:08:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6F19199FA; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:08:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8194B199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:07:10 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] moscow ml From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011207070710.8194B199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:09:04 +0900 How do you think what kind of work this language profits us? Sorry, I'm one of most idiot. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 18:49:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 18:49:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14205 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 18:49:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14201 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 18:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 18:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFD2D19A00; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 04:49:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2078F199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 04:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16CHRT-0006Xu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:37:15 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Barry Message-ID: <20011206114842.02585.00001908@mb-dh.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:36:31 GMT From Alexaner: _That_ is easy to deal with - /* XXX: Yes, I know. It's crap. Working on that. */ HEY!!! That's not the way a REAL PROGRAMMER writes code. If it was hard to write, it should be twice as hard to understand. ;) (somewhere I have the ancient Usenet (humor) posting about "Real Programmers". Hmmmm ... also "If OS's were Beer" !) ================================================================== Once a proud programmer of Apple II computers, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 18:50:20 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 18:50:20 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14224 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 18:50:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14220 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 18:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 18:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3475019A05; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 04:50:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82EDF199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 04:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16CHQf-0006WJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:36:25 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <9uoumu$uhk$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <200111290732.HAA01786@localhost.localdomain>, <200112032239.XAA09571@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:36:19 GMT Hi Laura, > The other great problem that I have is that in the middle of hacking > up something, I discover a memory leak. Usually when I find one, I > find a pattern that happens all over the code base. I now want to > stop whatever I am doing, get a new fresh version of the code base, > and fix the memory leak once and for all throughout everything. I do > not wish either to lose my current hacking, or have to finish them > before I can go kill that memory leak. > > Currently, I mostly cheat. I go to another machine, and log in as > another user I have created for that purpose, and nail the memory > leak. Then I go back to being me, and back to what I was hacking on. > That I find this the most convenient way to solve a problem I have > all the time is an indication that my usual work habits and the work And this is with CVS? If so, why not check out another copy of the source to work on? mkdir work1 && cd work1 cvs co myproject # work away, spot problem mkdir ~/work2 && cd ~/work2 cvs co myproject # fix widespread leak, altering many files cvs ci -m'fix ...' cd rm -rf work2 cd work1 cvs update # to merge in all the changes committed from work2 Unlike with SCCS and RCS you can have multiple copies of the CVS repository contents to work on at once as the `history files', e.g. *,v, are separated from the working area. (I know this is possible with SCCS and RCS, but not their normal manner of working.) Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 18:55:20 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 18:55:20 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14281 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 18:55:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14276 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 18:55:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 18:55:19 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A45419A02; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 04:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF0EC199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 04:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16CHRT-0006Y0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:37:15 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C103BDE.DAF34ACD@null.net> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:36:52 GMT D De Villiers wrote: > (only know about C language). Be sure to learn to program in "rc" langauge as well! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 20:52:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 20:52:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15546 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 20:52:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15542 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 20:52:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 20:52:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50C7E199FA; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:52:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AF96199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7BpWBv017537 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:51:32 +0100 Message-ID: <3C10AD44.4A57656E@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <3C103BDE.DAF34ACD@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 12:51:32 +0100 D De Villiers wrote: > (only know about C language). Don't forget 'awk' and 'sed' too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 21:00:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 21:00:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15645 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 21:00:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15641 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 21:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 21:00:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 413A419A08; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:00:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83EA7199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:59:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7BxTBv017660 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:59:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3C10AF21.4E5AA76@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "9fans@cse.psu.edu" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] libXg/test.c Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 12:59:29 +0100 Here's a trivial patch to libXg/test.c which I've been meaning to send in (or I've sent in). I'm not sure bobf is still the maintainer, so it goes to the list. btw: libXg/test.c has problems with deep colour maps, but I don't really care about colour that much. % diff -e libXg/OLDtest.c libXg/test.c 1a #include . From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 21:22:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 21:22:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15978 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 21:22:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15974 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 21:22:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 21:22:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 731CB19A18; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:22:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EFEC19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:21:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7CLOBv018032; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:21:24 +0100 Message-ID: <3C10B445.FB43FC8B@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "9fans@cse.psu.edu" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] libXg/rune.c for latin-1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 13:21:25 +0100 For those of us who use sam [on unix] in latin-1 environments UTF is a real problem. Yes, I'd like to use Plan 9 UTF everywhere, but it's not really an option given I edit everything with sam and smashing latin-1 files is not an option. What follows is the least odious hack (tm) for pure unix environments; it's pretty much a compile time decision. Recall that both sam and samterm use Runes and adding extra command line options or changing the sam/samterm protocol are much worse options. I could have played tricks with the Rune constants, but I thought that would just degrade the code, confuse the issue and generally mess things up, so I added a very visually obvious #define: % diff -e libXg/OLDrune.c libXg/rune.c 204c if(LATIN_1_OK(c) || c < Runeself) { . 173c if(LATIN_1_OK(c) || c < Runesync) /* not part of utf sequence */ . 157c if(LATIN_1_OK(c) || c < Tx) . 139c if(LATIN_1_OK(c) || c <= Rune1) . 96c if(LATIN_1_OK(c) || c <= Rune1) { . 41c if(LATIN_1_OK(c) || c < Tx) { . 5a #define LATIN_1_OK(c) ((c) <= 0xFF) . From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 7 23:08:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 7 23:08:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16912 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Dec 2001 23:08:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16908 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 23:08:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 23:08:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB14619A25; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:08:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from haddock.cd.chalmers.se (haddock.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88A3E19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (boris.cd.chalmers.se [129.16.79.21]) by haddock.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21752; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:07:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from boris.cd.chalmers.se (IDENT:GGRVItPTSujDjkF7rzeVXpXr0UWJbHg0@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by boris.cd.chalmers.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11779; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:07:37 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200112071407.PAA11779@boris.cd.chalmers.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, ralph@inputplus.demon.co.uk Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:36:19 GMT." <9uoumu$uhk$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk> From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:07:34 +0100 Ralph Corderoy explains to me how to use cvs without hopping around like a frog in the fire. Hmmm. I tried to do this once, botched it, and stupidly concluded that it couldn't be done. Thank you for enlightening me. My coworkers who will be pleased to see that I am not hogging 3 or 4 terminals in the main terminal room will also bless the day you took the time to post this. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 01:41:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 01:41:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 18269 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 01:41:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18265 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 01:41:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 01:41:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B91D919A2B; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:41:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from droid.nosc.mil (droid.nosc.mil [128.49.4.117]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3177D199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:40:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from Oddball.spawar.navy.mil (route66.nosc.mil [128.49.190.102]) by droid.nosc.mil (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fB7GeeW07202 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:40:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011207083730.00a68708@arcturus.spawar.navy.mil> X-Sender: senecal@arcturus.spawar.navy.mil X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matt Senecal Subject: Re: [9fans] '486 terminal freezes during boot (FIX) In-Reply-To: <48effcda.0112011821.629134fe@posting.google.com> References: <20011123.084311.-2827.0.msenecal1@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 08:40:40 -0800 North_, Your solution worked like a charm! I never would have thought of that in a million years... ---Matt ---------------------------------------------------------- There's nothing more dangerous than a resourceful idiot. ---------------------------------------------------------- Matt Senecal Northrop Grumman Information Technology Logicon-INRI Division E-mail: msenecal@logicon.com Web: http://msenecal.tripod.com/ Phone: (619)-553-4891 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 04:13:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 04:13:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19202 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 04:13:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19198 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 04:13:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 04:13:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 917D019A05; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:13:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A4C4519A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:12:22 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hfirzmsnqbrhurxvfkzpkumudi" Message-Id: <20011207191222.A4C4519A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:12:19 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hfirzmsnqbrhurxvfkzpkumudi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The "9libs" version of libXg doesn't appear to have this problem. --upas-hfirzmsnqbrhurxvfkzpkumudi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Dec 7 07:00:17 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64F4319A04; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:00:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83EA7199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:59:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7BxTBv017660 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:59:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3C10AF21.4E5AA76@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "9fans@cse.psu.edu" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] libXg/test.c Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 12:59:29 +0100 Here's a trivial patch to libXg/test.c which I've been meaning to send in (or I've sent in). I'm not sure bobf is still the maintainer, so it goes to the list. btw: libXg/test.c has problems with deep colour maps, but I don't really care about colour that much. % diff -e libXg/OLDtest.c libXg/test.c 1a #include . --upas-hfirzmsnqbrhurxvfkzpkumudi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 04:16:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 04:16:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19232 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 04:16:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19228 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 04:16:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 04:16:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BEBA19A25; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:16:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 016E3199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7JFdBv025413 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:15:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3C11155B.9D4309DD@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c References: <20011207191222.A4C4519A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:15:39 +0100 > The "9libs" version of libXg doesn't appear > to have this problem. My version came from: http://netlib.bell-labs.com/netlib/research/sam.shar.gz From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 04:42:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 04:42:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19378 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 04:42:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19374 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 04:42:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 04:42:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 063ED19A2B; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:42:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1C49E199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:41:45 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dljifqplefbpowllehzqvinztj" Message-Id: <20011207194145.1C49E199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:41:42 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dljifqplefbpowllehzqvinztj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I started unifying all the various ``Plan 9 on Unix & Nt'' thingies a while ago, but I got bogged down trying to make a better Inferno, which nobody (here at least) really wanted. I've shelved the Inferno effort. Russ has been helping with drawterm, on and off. I might spend some time over the weekend tidying up the remainder of "9pm". There shouldn't be all these different versions of sam and the supporting libraries. --upas-dljifqplefbpowllehzqvinztj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Dec 7 14:16:17 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9699719A18; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:16:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 016E3199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7JFdBv025413 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:15:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3C11155B.9D4309DD@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c References: <20011207191222.A4C4519A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:15:39 +0100 > The "9libs" version of libXg doesn't appear > to have this problem. My version came from: http://netlib.bell-labs.com/netlib/research/sam.shar.gz --upas-dljifqplefbpowllehzqvinztj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 05:09:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 05:09:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19548 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 05:09:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19544 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 05:09:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 05:09:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 853D519A25; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:09:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3F95199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7K86Bv026305 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:08:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3C1121A6.3F4C3ECA@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c References: <20011207194145.1C49E199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:08:06 +0100 > There shouldn't be all these different versions of sam and the supporting libraries. Right! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 05:10:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 05:10:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19560 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 05:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19556 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 05:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 05:10:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E0D319A2E; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:10:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1EC15199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:09:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 27870 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2001 20:09:57 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 7 Dec 2001 20:09:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 4624 invoked by uid 991); 7 Dec 2001 20:09:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20011207200957.4622.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c In-Reply-To: Message from David Gordon Hogan of "Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:41:42 EST." <20011207194145.1C49E199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:09:57 -0500 David writes: > There shouldn't be all these different versions of sam and the supporting > libraries. What he said. Sign me up for the cleanup project. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 05:29:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 05:29:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19648 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 05:29:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19644 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 05:29:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 05:29:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34429199FA; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:29:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5A49199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:28:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fB7KSnBv026667 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:28:49 +0100 Message-ID: <3C112681.F5D4D530@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c References: <20011207200957.4622.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:28:49 +0100 > What he said. Sign me up for the cleanup project. Please try and factor in being able to turn off UTF to make latin-1 on unix bearable. It's probably a compile time thing, unless you live in 'mixed' universe. In a 'mixed' universe it's probably pretty tricky to do in any simple, general way. Thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 05:54:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 05:54:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19763 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 05:54:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19759 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 05:54:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 05:54:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F71E19A18; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:54:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from quanstro.net (ninilchik.quanstro.net [66.92.161.167]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE001199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:53:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by quanstro.net (Postfix, from userid 210) id 8729B3FE56; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:55:48 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: erik quanstrom Message-Id: <20011207190514.53C423FE56@quanstro.net> Subject: [9fans] as long as we're on the subject of Sam. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:05:14 -0500 (EST) has anybody else seen this problem with sam on unix: with an exported display (or just running under Xnest) sam starts up normally but when you place the window with whatever window manager you're using sam commits suicide with this error: libg error: i/o error: not terribly informative. wily doesn't have the same problem. i did a little debugging on it but the error message is bubbled up to libg from a callback from (gdb) where #0 ioerr (d=0x8065530, E=0xbfffefe0) at xtbinit.c:879 #1 0x400f4663 in _XError () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 #2 0x400f2072 in _XEventsQueued () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 #3 0x400e572a in XEventsQueued () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 #4 0x4006ee68 in XtUnmanageChild () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 #5 0x4006f7e8 in _XtWaitForSomething () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 #6 0x400706b8 in XtAppProcessEvent () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 #7 0x080569c8 in waitevent () at xtbinit.c:912 #8 0x08056445 in eread (keys=4294967295, e=0x805c340) at xtbinit.c:739 #9 0x0804c480 in waitforio () at io.c:74 #10 0x0804a2ef in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffe54) at main.c:54 #11 0x401d95b0 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6 where E is an XErrorEvent* (my modification). gcc claims that E is: $2 = {type = 0, display = 0x8065530, resourceid = 32, serial = 49, error_code = 2 '\002', request_code = 53 '5', minor_code = 0 '\000'} according to the X headers, 53 is a pixmap thing. but i'm not quite sure what to do from here. i am not an x guru. oh, and: name of display: :1.0 version number: 11.0 vendor string: Mandrake Linux (XFree86 4.1.0, patch level 17mdk) vendor release number: 40100000 XFree86 version: 4.1.0 maximum request size: 4194300 bytes motion buffer size: 256 bitmap unit, bit order, padding: 32, LSBFirst, 32 image byte order: LSBFirst number of supported pixmap formats: 2 supported pixmap formats: depth 1, bits_per_pixel 1, scanline_pad 32 depth 24, bits_per_pixel 32, scanline_pad 32 keycode range: minimum 8, maximum 255 focus: window 0xa0000e, revert to PointerRoot number of extensions: 22 [...] screen #0: dimensions: 1024x768 pixels (346x260 millimeters) resolution: 75x75 dots per inch depths (2): 1, 24 root window id: 0x25 depth of root window: 24 planes number of colormaps: minimum 1, maximum 1 default colormap: 0x21 default number of colormap cells: 256 preallocated pixels: black 0, white 16777215 options: backing-store NO, save-unders NO largest cursor: 32x32 current input event mask: 0xd8000d KeyPressMask ButtonPressMask ButtonReleaseMask SubstructureNotifyMask SubstructureRedirectMask PropertyChangeMask ColormapChangeMask number of visuals: 1 default visual id: 0x20 visual: visual id: 0x20 class: TrueColor depth: 24 planes available colormap entries: 256 per subfield red, green, blue masks: 0xff0000, 0xff00, 0xff significant bits in color specification: 8 bits erik From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 06:35:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 06:35:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19953 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 06:35:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19949 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 06:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 06:35:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1231419A25; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:35:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from localhost.localdomain (wireless85.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.48.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3387219A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vic@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.2/8.11.2) id fB7LZIm04650; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:35:18 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: vic set sender to zandy@cs.wisc.edu using -f To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: vic Message-ID: Lines: 34 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090004 (Oort Gnus v0.04) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] vmware Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:35:18 -0600 More on vmware: I cannot get any plan 9 kernel to boot reliably under vmware except for the one in 9disk.9fd from the distribution webpage. This includes the kernel installed with the current distribution and every kernel I build on my other plan 9 machine (sources are several months old, no updates). The boot hangs after these lines: x free pages y bytes z swap I've had no luck with suggestions made in previous 9fans reports of similar behavior, including: - disabling hardware specs (ether, vgasize, monitor, audio) in plan9.ini - extra printing in /sys/src/9/pc/main.c before it calls the scheduler. (north_'s recent solution to similar 486 hangs.) Sometimes the boot is successful if I press keys while it is booting. I have not mastered this monkey business. Sometimes it makes vmware crash. I am slowly tracing the boot to the hang. Processes with pids 1 and 2 are scheduled a couple times each (I think), and then nothing is scheduled. I think I have sysexec() rigged to print something on entry, but I never see it -- is that not inconsistent with the existence of pid 2? (The sysexec printing appears when I boot these kernels on actual computers, though I'm not sure when.) Anyhoo, suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Vic From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 06:40:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 06:40:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19980 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 06:40:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19976 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 06:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 06:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 908CD19A02; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:40:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6CFBD199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:39:57 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] as long as we're on the subject of Sam. From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011207213957.6CFBD199F1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:39:54 -0500 > $2 = {type = 0, display = 0x8065530, resourceid = 32, serial = 49, > error_code = 2 '\002', request_code = 53 '5', minor_code = 0 '\000'} > > according to the X headers, 53 is a pixmap thing. but i'm not quite > sure what to do from here. i am not an x guru. What's error code 2? Is it BadMatch? (really libXg should print these things properly). My guess is that libXg is trying to allocate an 8-bit pixmap on your 24-bit only display... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 07:16:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 07:16:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20181 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 07:16:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20177 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 07:16:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 07:16:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C71319A2E; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:16:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from quanstro.net (ninilchik.quanstro.net [66.92.161.167]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D12D19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:15:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by quanstro.net (Postfix, from userid 210) id 369893FE56; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:17:41 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: erik quanstrom Subject: Re: [9fans] as long as we're on the subject of Sam. Message-Id: <20011207221741.369893FE56@quanstro.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:17:41 -0500 (EST) 2 maps to this text: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for this operation) i tried the quick-and-dirty approach of commenting out the case allowing a depth of 0. that failed with a BadMatch error. ---- > $2 = {type = 0, display = 0x8065530, resourceid = 32, serial = 49, > error_code = 2 '\002', request_code = 53 '5', minor_code = 0 '\000'} > > according to the X headers, 53 is a pixmap thing. but i'm not quite > sure what to do from here. i am not an x guru. What's error code 2? Is it BadMatch? (really libXg should print these things properly). My guess is that libXg is trying to allocate an 8-bit pixmap on your 24-bit only display... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Dec 8 07:19:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Dec 8 07:19:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 20241 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Dec 2001 07:19:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20237 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2001 07:19:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Dec 2001 07:19:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EED319A37; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:19:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A122B199F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:18:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011207221829.A122B199F1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:18:27 -0500 Part of the effort that David mentioned is that I hope to have color Sam and Acme running from their own sources before long. The lack of file system, of course, will prevent using programs like win or Mail, but just having the editing and execution capabilities of Acme will be very nice. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 9 03:43:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 9 03:43:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31228 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Dec 2001 03:43:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31224 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2001 03:43:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 03:43:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9BD219A0D; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:43:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 00A1E19A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: anothy@cosym.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20011208184220.00A1E19A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] wiki problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:42:08 -0500 the wiki seems to be misbehaving: srv: dial net!plan9.bell-labs.com!wiki: connection rejected(connect 204.178.31.2!17035) anyone know what's up? ア From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 9 05:00:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 9 05:00:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 31977 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Dec 2001 05:00:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31973 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2001 05:00:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 05:00:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 642B319A29; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:00:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (ns1.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB3D519A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:59:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.8.38]) by dirty; Sat Dec 8 14:59:44 EST 2001 Received: by nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA264525225 for cse.psu.edu!9fans; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: Doug McIlroy Message-Id: <200112081958.OAA264525225@nslocum.cs.bell-labs.com> To: rob@research.bell-labs.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Python filesystem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:58:52 -0500 I I don't know what it has to do with Python, but here's a little about the half-baked idea referenced in the attached message. In its simplest form, the idea was for the metadata to be a single line of text, with all the metadata in a file system unioned into a single file in which each line begins with the (or a) name of the associated data file. What descriptors might go in the metadata is left arbitrary. To ask about a file, one would just look at the metadata. To find a file given some descriptors, one could grep the union file. I never thought of an appealing way to maintain the union file. How, for example, can a useful name be determined for a file, short of some ugly AI like pwd? What happens to the metadata when a file gets recreated? Assuming only one copy of metadata exists for a file with two names, how do you treat the metadata on unlink? One can come up with answers to these questions, but can one come up with a solution that will run fast and be accurate? Glimpse, for example, provides (a different sort of) index to the contents of a file system by periodically reading the whole file system. Hence it cannot be accurate. The way metadata is stored matters, too. Imagine trying to grep the union of 10,000 files, were each metadata item in a separate file. If anybody thinks up a good way to overcome the problems, I'd love to hear about it. Doug McIlroy >From: skipt@real.com >Date: Thu Nov 29 14:50:26 EST 2001 >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Subject: Re: [9fans] Python filesystem > >In a thread long ago, Rob mentioned an idea proposed by Doug McIlroy for an >indexed/annotated filesystem that would keep an annotation file for each >regular file. It would seem like the right idea for keeping the mod >documentation, etc. > >BTW, I've not been able to find any reference to the annotation/fs idea. >Was anything written up (that could be shared)? > >>What do we lack then? Locking and management of metadata? There's >>probably a way around those, as well. The revision control FS isn't >>well formed for saving; maybe a better solution would be to echo a >>revision number into a ctl or new file, and then have that create a new >>delta. Write the file into it, and let the FS take care of picking out >>the delta and storing it. Perhaps a metadata file could be associated >>with every file. eg, foo.c;meta, foo.c;1.0, etc. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 9 05:24:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 9 05:24:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 32160 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Dec 2001 05:24:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32156 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2001 05:24:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 05:24:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 740C019A18; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:24:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0001419A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:23:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011208202357.0001419A05@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:23:54 -0500 > srv: dial net!plan9.bell-labs.com!wiki: connection rejected(connect 204.178.31.2!17035) Just another casualty of various churn around here. It's fixed now, I believe. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 9 12:00:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 9 12:00:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 3122 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Dec 2001 12:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3117 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2001 12:00:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 12:00:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D93FF19A08; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:00:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cosym.net (peter.sys.9srv.net [64.7.3.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 703EF199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:59:27 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: anothy@cosym.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20011209025927.703EF199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] metadata in file systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:59:09 -0500 this is longer than i meant for it to be, but whatever. it's a bit more radical than the "store attributes in some file" approach, but what do people here think of the approach to file system desing represented by MacOS's HFS+ and BeOS's BFS (and presumably others, although those are the ones i've used)? at a minimum, it seems many of the metadata issues we're talking about are addressed by these systems and their file's "attributes" or "resource forks". they've worked in those systems, and have found application in more recent systems, like AtheOS (which i've never used, so can't comment inteligently on), as well. [please avoid the obvious criticisms of the implementations named above, like case-insensativity - i'm interested in the ideas more generally than these implementations] in particular, many (certainly not all) of the problems with managing (or at least effectivly storing) metadata are addressed by moving the question to fs-level rather than app-level. the file servers could track things like a mime type for a file in much the same way it tracks other metadata currently - things like mod time, owner, and so on. it's in a good position to do this, potentially getting the information through the established means (see below for the "potentially"). problems remain, of course. the most obvious should be the broad nature of the change - it'd require either changes to syscalls like stat, "alternate" versions of them (eg "nstat" returning the "augmented" Dir structure), or entirely new syscalls (eg "metadata" returning just the new info). the first option is probably cleaner (keeps the number of syscalls and 9p messages down, reduces the additional pain to write a file server), but the second and third reduce the pain of updating existing programs. the next obvious concern is the need for tools to use/manipulate this metadata. this probably isn't that big a deal, at least in one direction (more on that in just a second), but it would need to be done. something along the lines of additions to ls and a new member of the chmod/chgrp family. simple versions of this scheme work well in one direction (given a file, return its metadata), but less so in the other (given some metadata, find matching files). particularly in the plan9 world, it's dificult to see how to do this without simply walking a tree. and while that's not too exciting, maybe it's okay; we don't do anything else for the metadata the fs currently stores, like owner or mode. the only place i see it becoming really problematic is on a jukebox. but again, this isn't any different from the situation now. the alternative is for either the fs itself or some user-land application to cache the data somewhere. each has problmes. the fs seems in a more promising position: it's guaranteed to get notice of any changes, and can best schedule any indexing that needs to be done. but in a plan 9 world, the fs can't know what things look like to the user (and user-land apps). while a user-land program is in a better position to know what the acutal namespace looks like, accounting for changes to files would involve a good bit of work, and the namespace could still change underfoot. the only place having file servers keep track of metadata more activly would be nice is to implement something like BeOS's "persistent queries". there you could basically say "show me all files image newer than Dec 5 2001, larger than 1KB" and it would, continually updating as things entered or left the set. since BeOS allowed a wide (arbitrary?) range of metadata, queries like this could be used even for things like monitoring new mail. while that capability's interesting, it (as far as i can tell) mandates putting those smarts into the fs, and i'm not sure the benifits are worth the cost (significantly increased complexity in the server, and the need for some way to get queries in/out). but having the _data_ stored by the fs seems like an interesting angle. anyway, that's more than enough out of me for a bit. thoughts? ア From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 9 17:24:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 9 17:24:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6362 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Dec 2001 17:24:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6358 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2001 17:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 17:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98FEA19A00; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 03:24:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 98EEF199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 03:23:12 -0500 (EST) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011209082312.98EEF199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:22:59 +0900 Hello, `Touch' change the size of file if is append only. term% chmod +a x term% ls -l x a-rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 1 Dec 9 16:59 x term% touch x term% ls -l x a-rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 2 Dec 9 17:05 x term% Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 9 23:38:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 9 23:38:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11032 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Dec 2001 23:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11028 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2001 23:38:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 23:38:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B31A619A02; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:38:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducksworth.com (lucifer.ducksworth.com [216.62.194.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07FEB199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:37:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB9DlMV79143 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 07:47:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] worm problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 07:47:22 -0600 (CST) hello all, i noticed this morning that my fileserver was caught in a reboot cycle. each time it comes up everything looks normal until just before it displays the fs console prompt. here is what it prints: fworm: read 5 WORM SUPER BLOCK READ FAILED 0 0 fs: then lots of disk activity followed by the fileserver panicing and vomiting on the screen and then rebooting. i was able to stop the reboot cycle by issuing the following command: 0 0 fs: cwcmd startdump 0 that got me back so i can at least use the file server. i also verified the problem by issuing the following command: 0 0 fs: cwcmd touchsb fworm: read 5 WORM SUPER BLOCK READ FAILED any ideas on how to fix this one? BTW this is a pseudo worm setup. --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Dec 9 23:49:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Dec 9 23:49:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11189 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Dec 2001 23:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11185 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2001 23:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 23:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6635B19A18; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:49:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 992B819A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:48:57 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xlppmqtvhihqphdvehnrvlukex" Message-Id: <20011209144857.992B819A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:48:54 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xlppmqtvhihqphdvehnrvlukex Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit touch should just try to set the mtime, if the file server will let it. try this change and see if it behaves better. %% diff -n touch.c /sys/src/cmd/touch.c touch.c:30 c /sys/src/cmd/touch.c:30 < Dir stbuff, nstbuff; --- > Dir stbuff; touch.c:39,44 d /sys/src/cmd/touch.c:38 < } < stbuff.mtime = time(0); < if(dirwstat(name, &stbuff) >= 0){ < /* check that file server paid attention */ < if(dirstat(name, &nstbuff) >=0 && nstbuff.mtime == stbuff.mtime) < return 0; %% --upas-xlppmqtvhihqphdvehnrvlukex Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Dec 9 03:24:18 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACF7B199F2; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 03:24:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 98EEF199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 03:23:12 -0500 (EST) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011209082312.98EEF199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:22:59 +0900 Hello, `Touch' change the size of file if is append only. term% chmod +a x term% ls -l x a-rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 1 Dec 9 16:59 x term% touch x term% ls -l x a-rw-rw-r-- M 3 arisawa arisawa 2 Dec 9 17:05 x term% Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp --upas-xlppmqtvhihqphdvehnrvlukex-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 02:46:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 02:46:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12702 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 02:46:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12698 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 02:46:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 02:46:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00E35199EC; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:46:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 78F5E199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:45:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] worm problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011209174516.78F5E199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:45:15 -0500 Can you boot a Plan 9 terminal on the disk (or boot the install floppy) and then look at the second block on your pseudo-worm? Also, backups are good. I had a problem like this once right after I'd set up a pseudo-worm and other partition on the same disk using the p device. I never tracked it down, but my superblock was the beginning of a PostScript file. The case fan had broken, so I think it might have just been heat problems. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 05:35:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 05:35:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 13951 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 05:35:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13947 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 05:35:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 05:35:35 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 401E3199EC; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:35:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducksworth.com (lucifer.ducksworth.com [216.62.194.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AD94199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:34:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB9JiCK79893 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:44:12 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] worm problems In-Reply-To: <20011209174516.78F5E199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:44:12 -0600 (CST) russ, i was able to boot from the install disk and do the following: dd -if /dev/sdC0 -of /tmp/dump1.dd -skip 1 -count 1 and it wrote the result out to the file without any problems. i did notice something strange. i mounted the file server on my cpu server on /n/fs and then cd'ed into that directory and did and 'lc' it had double entries for every directory. if i went into one of the directories and did and 'lc' i did not see double entries. it was only at the root of the mount point. if it makes it any easier, i don't care about any of the previous dumps. --sam On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Russ Cox wrote: > Can you boot a Plan 9 terminal on the disk > (or boot the install floppy) and then look > at the second block on your pseudo-worm? > > Also, backups are good. > > I had a problem like this once right after I'd > set up a pseudo-worm and other partition on the > same disk using the p device. I never tracked > it down, but my superblock was the beginning of > a PostScript file. The case fan had broken, so > I think it might have just been heat problems. > > Russ > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 07:04:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 07:04:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14415 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 07:04:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14411 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 07:04:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 07:04:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 058EE199E4; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:04:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9EE0D199EC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:03:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] worm problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011209220338.9EE0D199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:03:30 -0500 try dd -bs 4096 -count 1 -skip 2 < /dev/sdC0/data | xd -b | tail -10 to get the end of the superblock, where the "header" is. if i'm reading the code right, the last six bytes should be 01 00 02 00 00 00 the 01 00 is 0x0001 - the Tsuper tag; 02 00 00 00 is the block address: 2. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 09:43:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 09:43:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16449 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 09:43:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16444 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 09:43:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 09:43:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 749FB19A00; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:43:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducksworth.com (lucifer.ducksworth.com [216.62.194.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4ED05199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:42:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB9NqR080404 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:52:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] worm problems In-Reply-To: <20011209220338.9EE0D199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:52:26 -0600 (CST) russ, ok here is what i get with that command: .... 0000ff0 02 00 00 00 05 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 02 00 00 00 0001000 0001000 the last six bytes are just as you said. --sam On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Russ Cox wrote: > try > dd -bs 4096 -count 1 -skip 2 < /dev/sdC0/data | xd -b | tail -10 > > to get the end of the superblock, where the "header" is. > if i'm reading the code right, the last six bytes should be > 01 00 02 00 00 00 > > the 01 00 is 0x0001 - the Tsuper tag; 02 00 00 00 is the > block address: 2. > > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 09:50:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 09:50:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16645 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 09:50:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16641 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 09:50:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 09:50:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E09C519A08; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:50:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8211F199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:49:03 -0500 (EST) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011210004903.8211F199B9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: worm problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:48:47 +0900 Hello, For the safe of fs crash, I have written another backup tool. -WARNING- You should examine this tool carefully by yourself before you apply to your system. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp /* ---------------------- backup.c ------------------------ name: backup backup utility for Plan9 usage: backup [-vn] -s source -d destination [-l backuplist] [path ...] options and arguments: -v: verbose -n: make a new backup, i.e., execute backup even if destination is an empty directory -s source: source dir from which backup is made. -d destination: diestination dir in which backup is made. -l backuplist: path list to be processed. path list must be a path per line. path ... : path list to be processed. function: `backup' makes an effort to make mirror of source/path in destination/path `backup' tries to preserve the following info.: - contents (judged from modification time) - modification time - permissions - owner and group info. and `backup' discards files and directories in destination/path that are non-existent in source/path typical usage 1: # Let's consider that we (host owner) want to have a backup of 9fs in kfs, # then: # confirm 9fs and kfs are mounted on /n/9fs and /n/kfs respectively # and execute: % disk/kfscmd allow % backup -s /n/9fs -d /n/kfs / % disk/kfscmd disallow # note that only at first time we should execute: % backup -n -s /n/9fs -d /n/kfs / typical usage 2: # backup my files to kfs # confirm 9fs and kfs are mounted on /n/9fs and /n/kfs respectively # and then executed % backup -s /n/9fs -d /n/kfs $home backuplist sample: # each line is trimmed before evaluation # lines starting with `#' are comments # one path per line 386 cron dist rc lib sys lp acme mail/lib adm wrap usr Coded by Kenji Arisawa (Kenar) Bug report to: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp ------------------------------------------------------- */ #include #include #include #include #define MAXPATH 4096 void usage(void); char *mkpath2(char *path1, char *path2); char *mkpath3(char *path1, char *path2, char *path3); char *strtrim(char *s); int growto(Dir **dirbuf, int ndirbuf, long n); int compar(Dir *a, Dir *b); void backup(char *s); int check(char *path); int dirinfo(Dir **dirbuf, char *path); void cpfile(char *path); void rmdir(char *path); int rmfile(char *path); char *src, *dst; int vflag; int nflag; void usage(void) { fprint(2, "usage: backup [-nv] -s source -d destination [-l backuplist] [path ....]\n"); exits("usage"); } char * mkpath2(char *path1, char *path2) { char *p; p = malloc(strlen(path1)+strlen(path2)+5); if(strlen(path1)) sprint(p, "%s/%s", path1, path2); else sprint(p, "%s", path2); return p; } char * mkpath3(char *path1, char *path2, char *path3) { char *p; p = malloc(strlen(path1)+strlen(path2)+strlen(path3)+5); if(strlen(path2)) sprint(p, "%s/%s/%s", path1, path2, path3); else sprint(p, "%s/%s", path1, path3); return p; } char *strtrim(char *s) { char *t; while(*s && isspace(*s)) s++; t = s + strlen(s) - 1; if(s < t){ while(*t && isspace(*t)) t--; t++; *t = 0; } return s; } void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { char *file = 0; USED(argc); ARGBEGIN{ case 'd': dst = ARGF(); break; case 's': src = ARGF(); break; case 'l': file = ARGF(); break; case 'v': vflag = 1; break; case 'n': nflag = 1; break; default: usage(); }ARGEND if(!src || !dst) usage(); if(!file && !*argv) usage(); /* check src whether it is not empty */ switch(check(src)){ case 1: fprint(2, "%s is non-existent\n", src); exits("error"); case 2: fprint(2, "%s is not a directory\n", src); exits("error"); case 3: fprint(2, "%s is empty\n", src); exits("error"); default: break; } /* check dst whether it exits */ switch(check(dst)){ case 1: fprint(2, "%s is non-existent\n", dst); exits("error"); case 2: fprint(2, "%s is not a directory\n", dst); exits("error"); case 3: if(!nflag){ fprint(2, "%s is empty\n", dst); exits("error"); } default: break; } /* check that whether dst is one of subtree of src. * if it is, we must abort processing */ if(strlen(dst) >= strlen(src) && strncmp(dst,src,strlen(src)) == 0){ /* then be careful */ if(dst[strlen(src)] == '/'){ fprint(2, "%s is a subtree of %s\n", dst, src); exits("error"); } } if(file){ Biobuf in; char *line; char *path; char buf[MAXPATH]; int fd; int n; fd = open(file, OREAD); if(fd<0){ fprint(2, "balckuplist %s not open\n", file); exits("error"); } Binit(&in, fd, OREAD); while(line = Brdline(&in,'\n')){/* assign = */ n = Blinelen(&in); strncpy(buf, line, n); buf[n] = 0; path = strtrim(buf); if(path[0] == '#') continue; if(vflag) print("looking... %s\n", path); backup(path); } Bterm(&in); // note: Bterm close the file } while(*argv){ if(vflag) print("looking... %s\n", *argv); backup(*argv++); } } void backup(char *path) { int f; int nsrcdir; int ndstdir; Dir *srcdirbuf, *sd, *sdend, *ddend; Dir *dstdirbuf, *dd; char *newpath; char srcpath[MAXPATH]; char dstpath[MAXPATH]; if(path[0] == '/') path++; snprint(srcpath,sizeof(srcpath),"%s/%s", src, path); nsrcdir = dirinfo(&srcdirbuf, srcpath); if(nsrcdir < 0){ /* skip this backup */ fprint(2, "%s unreadable\n", srcpath); return; } snprint(dstpath,sizeof(dstpath),"%s/%s", dst, path); ndstdir = dirinfo(&dstdirbuf, dstpath); if(ndstdir < 0){ /* skip this backup */ fprint(2, "%s unreadable\n", dstpath); free(srcdirbuf); return; } sdend = srcdirbuf + nsrcdir; ddend = dstdirbuf + ndstdir; /* backup them */ for(sd = srcdirbuf, dd = dstdirbuf; sd < sdend && dd < ddend; ){ if(strcmp(sd->name, dd->name) < 0){ /* create destination */ newpath = mkpath2(path, sd->name); if(vflag) print("creating: %s/%s\n", dst, newpath); if(sd->mode & CHDIR){ char *p; /* create the directory and go on */ p = mkpath2(dst, newpath); f = create(dstpath, OREAD, sd->mode); if(f < 0) fprint(2, "mkdir: can't create %s: %r\n", p); close(f); free(p); backup(newpath); } else { cpfile(newpath); } free(newpath); sd++; } else if(strcmp(sd->name, dd->name) > 0){ /* remove destination */ char *p; p = mkpath3(dst, path, dd->name); if(vflag) print("removing: %s\n", p); if(dd->mode & CHDIR) rmdir(p); else rmfile(p); free(p); dd++; } else { /* both names exist */ char *target; newpath = mkpath2(path, sd->name); target = mkpath3(dst, path, sd->name); if(sd->mode & CHDIR){ int err = 0; if((dd->mode & CHDIR) == 0){ /* file. so we remove it and create dir. */ if(rmfile(target) < 0){ err = 1; } f = create(target, OREAD, sd->mode); if(f < 0){ fprint(2, "unable to create %s", target); err = 1; } close(f); } if(!err) backup(newpath); } /* check the date */ if(sd->mtime > dd->mtime){ if(sd->mode & CHDIR ){ strcpy(dd->uid, sd->uid); strcpy(dd->gid, sd->gid); dd->mode = sd->mode; dd->mtime = sd->mtime; dirwstat(target, dd); } else{ /* file */ if(vflag) print("copying: %s\n", target); cpfile(newpath); } } else{ int cf = 0; if(strcmp(sd->uid,dd->uid) != 0){ /* change owner */; if(vflag) print("chown: %s\n", target); strcpy(dd->uid, sd->uid); cf = 1; } if(strcmp(sd->gid, dd->gid) != 0){ /* change group */; if(vflag) print("chgrp: %s\n", target); strcpy(dd->gid, sd->gid); cf = 1; } if(sd->mode != dd->mode){ /* change mode */; if(vflag) print("chmod: %s\n", target); dd->mode = sd->mode; cf = 1; } if(cf) dirwstat(target, dd); } free(newpath); free(target); sd++; dd++; } } if(sd < sdend){ char *p; int f; for(; sd < sdend; sd++){ newpath = mkpath2(path, sd->name); p = mkpath3(dst, path, sd->name); if(vflag) print("creating: %s\n", p); if(sd->mode & CHDIR){ f = create(p, OREAD, sd->mode); if(f < 0) fprint(2, "mkdir: can't create %s: %r\n", p); close(f); backup(newpath); } else cpfile(newpath); free(newpath); free(p); } } else if(dd < ddend){ char *p; for(; dd < ddend; dd++){ p = mkpath3(dst, path, dd->name); if(vflag) print("removing: %s\n", p); if(dd->mode & CHDIR) rmdir(p); else rmfile(p); free(p); } } /* free dirbuf */ free(srcdirbuf); free(dstdirbuf); } int check(char *path) { int fd; Dir db[1], d; fd = open(path, OREAD); if(fd == -1) return 1; // non existent dirfstat(fd, &d); if((d.mode & CHDIR) == 0){ close(fd); return 2; // not a directory } if(dirread(fd, db, sizeof db) == 0){ close(fd); return 3; // empty } close(fd); return 0; } /* * dirinfo * * return value * case -1: not exit * case 0: empty * others: the numbers of files/directory * * note: * free(dirbuf) if return value is not -1 * * ref: /sys/src/cmd/ls.c */ int dirinfo(Dir **dirbufp, char *path) { int fd; int ndirbuf = 0; int ndir = 0; Dir *dirbuf = 0; Dir db[50],d; int i,n; fd = open(path, OREAD); if(fd == -1) return -1; dirfstat(fd, &d); while((n=dirread(fd, db, sizeof db)) > 0){ n /= sizeof(Dir); ndirbuf = growto(&dirbuf, ndirbuf, ndir+n); for(i=0; iname, b->name); } void cpfile(char *path) { char srcpath[MAXPATH]; char dstpath[MAXPATH]; Dir d, d1; char buf[4096]; int n; int sfd, dfd; if(path[0] == '/') path++; snprint(srcpath,sizeof(srcpath),"%s/%s", src, path); snprint(dstpath,sizeof(dstpath),"%s/%s", dst, path); sfd = open(srcpath, OREAD); if(sfd < 0){ fprint(2, "open error: %s\n", srcpath); return; } dirfstat(sfd, &d); remove(dstpath); dfd = create(dstpath, OWRITE | OTRUNC, 0777); if(dfd < 0){ fprint(2, "unable to create: %s\n", dstpath); close(sfd); return; } for(;;){ n = read(sfd, buf, sizeof buf); if(n <= 0) break; if(write(dfd, buf, n) != n){ fprint(2, "write error: %s\n", dstpath); break; } } dirfstat(dfd, &d1); close(sfd); close(dfd); /* and we copy dirstat info */ d1.mode = d.mode; d1.mtime = d.mtime; strcpy(d1.uid, d.uid); strcpy(d1.gid, d.gid); dirwstat(dstpath, &d1); } int rmfile(char *path){ int status; status = remove(path); if(status == -1) fprint(2,"%s not removed", path); return status; } void rmdir(char *path) { char *name; int i, ndir; Dir *dirbuf; ndir = dirinfo(&dirbuf, path); if(ndir < 0){ fprint(2, "cannot get dir info %s\n", path); return; } for(i=0; i; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:59:27 -0500 (EST) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011210035927.307E3199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Bug fix to `backup' Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:59:15 +0900 Hello, Posted `backup' contains a bug. Fix as bellow: if(sd->mode & CHDIR){ char *p; /* create the directory and go on */ p = mkpath2(dst, newpath); f = create(p, OREAD, sd->mode); // dstpath --> p if(f < 0) fprint(2, "mkdir: can't create %s: %r\n", p); close(f); free(p); backup(newpath); } Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 19:19:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 19:19:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 531 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 19:19:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 527 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 19:19:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 19:19:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91CDA199E4; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:19:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A544D199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:18:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16DNI3-000117-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:04:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0112081922.891fc10@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <48effcda.0112011821.629134fe@posting.google.com>, <5.1.0.14.0.20011207083730.00a68708@arcturus.spawar.navy.mil> Subject: Re: [9fans] '486 terminal freezes during boot (FIX) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:02:25 GMT *blush* :) - north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 19:19:50 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 19:19:50 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 542 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 19:19:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 538 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 19:19:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 19:19:50 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4DAB19A00; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:19:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18590199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:18:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16DNI2-00010v-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: D De Villiers <~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za> Message-ID: <9usvhq$kcq$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Organization: The South African Internet Exchange References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:01:52 GMT No Pascal implementation ? Pascal compiler etc etc ? Regards, Lennie De Villiers --- Remove ~ and 9s from e-mail address to reply --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 19:20:09 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 19:20:09 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 566 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 19:20:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 562 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 19:20:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 19:20:09 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 068FA19A0F; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:19:25 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B1E8199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16DNI3-00011D-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:04:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: bs Message-ID: <3C12DA1A.501BEC03@invalid.address.com> Organization: - Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20011209025927.703EF199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] metadata in file systems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: balaji@mediaone.net List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:02:38 GMT Or how about streams as in M$? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 19:20:37 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 19:20:37 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 604 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 19:20:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 600 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 19:20:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 19:20:36 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF12419A19; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:20:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1810199EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:19:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16DNI2-00010p-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Maarit Maliniemi Message-ID: Organization: Telia Internet References: , <20011207200957.4622.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:01:38 GMT In article <20011207200957.4622.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu>, 9fans@cse.psu.edu wrote: > Sign me up for the cleanup project. Since Mark is very busy with other things I am sure that interested parties can just ask for 9libs. Provided that one wants to use auto-tools, ofcourse. Sam-9libs is always avaliable for anybody that wants to do something in C. After beeing allowed back into heaven (HLL coding) I have great difficulties persuading myself to start activly maintaing it again. bengt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Dec 10 19:23:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Dec 10 19:23:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 643 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Dec 2001 19:23:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 639 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2001 19:23:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Dec 2001 19:23:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D90C019A1C; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:23:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EB89199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:22:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16DNI2-000111-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: D De Villiers <~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za> Message-ID: <9usvhl$kcq$4@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Organization: The South African Internet Exchange References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <20011206200253.A7006@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 Programming languages ! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:02:12 GMT Bill, Far has I know -- Limbo is only use with the Inferno OS (not Plan9). Regards, Lennie De Villiers --- Remove ~ and 9s from e-mail address to reply --- > I have seen Limbo mentioned before. I am not a > programmer but it might be worth checking out. > Perhaps others could elaborate more. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 05:09:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 05:09:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 5662 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 05:09:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5658 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 05:09:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 05:09:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E148199EC; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:09:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from prognet.com (unknown [205.219.198.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32E36199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:08:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from skipt ([172.21.104.107]) by prognet.com (8.9.2/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA10858 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:08:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20011210122147.01a05b68@mail.real.com> X-Sender: skipt@mail.real.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Skip Tavakkolian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [9fans] InfiniBand and/or 3GIO support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:21:47 -0800 Would these technologies ease or complicate things in a Plan9 network? The requirement for more/new drivers is an obvious disadvantage, but it seems to be very applicable to cpu/fileserver communications. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 07:19:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 07:19:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6298 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 07:19:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6294 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 07:19:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 07:19:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09EE419A02; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:19:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from devil.lucid (pc1-dale5-0-cust136.not.cable.ntl.com [80.1.76.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED1A9199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:18:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from there (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by devil.lucid (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fBAMJbG32049 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:19:40 GMT (envelope-from matt@proweb.co.uk) Message-Id: <200112102219.fBAMJbG32049@devil.lucid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Matt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] bochs still no go Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:19:36 +0000 I tried bochs again with the lastest update these days it fails with 00272198060 [CPU ] RDMSR: not implemented yet 00272198060 [CPU ] UndefinedOpcode: 132 causes exception 6 oh well matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 07:19:49 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 07:19:49 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6305 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 07:19:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6301 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 07:19:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 07:19:48 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CE9D19A0F; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:19:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44676199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:18:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net (hadrian.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.1]) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02900 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:18:17 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08394 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:18:14 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <200112102218.IAA08394@hadrian.staff.apnic.net> From: ggm@apnic.net (George Michaelson) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [9fans] RDMA: DMA over TCP/IP at IETF Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:17 EST simple abstraction or inevitable nightmare? http://www.ietf.org/ietf/01dec/roi.txt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 08:36:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 08:36:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6951 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 08:36:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6947 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 08:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 08:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE50A199EA; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:36:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducky.net (ducky.net [199.26.172.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D008D199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:35:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) id fBANZWM57121 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:35:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200112102335.fBANZWM57121@ducky.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bochs still no go In-Reply-To: <200112102219.fBAMJbG32049@devil.lucid> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:35:32 -0800 (PST) If "RDMSR" is being used to read the time stamp counter, it should be replaced with RDTSC (0x0F 0x31). RDMSR is a much slower instruction. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 12:26:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 12:26:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12390 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 12:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12386 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 12:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 12:26:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 734EF199F1; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:26:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 43452199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:25:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bochs still no go MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011211032545.43452199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:25:43 -0500 > If "RDMSR" is being used to read the time stamp counter, > it should be replaced with RDTSC (0x0F 0x31). RDMSR is > a much slower instruction. That's not at all clear. I bet they're approximately the same on real hardware. RDMSR is much slower under VMware because it requires trapping into the VMware runtime, while RDTSC, an unprivileged instruction, does not. Since Bochs isn't using the underlying machine to execute _any_ instructions natively, I would be hesitant to draw speed comparisons. Of course, it appears that RDMSR is unsupported, but that's different. We use RDMSR for things other than reading the time stamp counter, though. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 17:02:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 17:02:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19700 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 17:02:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19696 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 17:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 17:02:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4320019A0B; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 03:02:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducky.net (ducky.net [199.26.172.91]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB2AC199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 03:01:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) id fBB81J357621 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200112110801.fBB81J357621@ducky.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bochs still no go In-Reply-To: <20011211032545.43452199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:01:19 -0800 (PST) >> If "RDMSR" is being used to read the time stamp counter, >> it should be replaced with RDTSC (0x0F 0x31). RDMSR is >> a much slower instruction. > >That's not at all clear. I bet they're approximately >the same on real hardware. RDMSR is much slower under >VMware because it requires trapping into the VMware >runtime, while RDTSC, an unprivileged instruction, does not. Ok, I'll admit to a bit of an unfair advantage on this issue: I can't speak for AMD processors, but I used to work at Intel, as an architect on the team that did the Pentium Pro and Pentium 4 processors. I've seen the microcode, and I can assure you that on Intel processors RDMSR is indeed substantially slower. The reason is that many of the so-called "machine-specific registers" that you can read by RDMSR don't really exist as registers in the hardware at all; instead they are just magic numbers specifying particular values that the processor microcode can put together for you by poking around at bits and pieces of internal state that are often widely distributed throughout the hardware. So the processor's microcode for the RDMSR instruction is roughly equivalent to the following C fragment: RDMSR: if (not in kernel mode) fault; switch (ecx) { ... case 0x10: copy the time stamp counter to (eax:edx); break; ... } whereas the microcode for RDTSC is just: RDTSC: copy the time stamp counter to (eax:edx); On Intel processors, an indirect jump in the microcode (the switch) is guaranteed to be mispredicted, since the usual branch prediction mechanisms for macroinstruction branches do not apply to microcode branches (and especially not microcode indirect jumps), so at minimum RDMSR causes the pipeline to get flushed at least one extra time. In addition RDMSR is specified to be a "serializing instruction", which means that the pipeline is drained of older instructions before the first microinstruction of RDMSR even starts executing. On x86 processors with RDTSC, you can get pretty high precision timing for even very fast operations with the following approach: x = rdtsc(); y = rdtsc(); thing_you_want_to_measure(); z = rdtsc(); cycles = (z - y) - (y - x); (The idea is the "y - x" subtracts out the time required by RDTSC itself.) Using this method on a Pentium III, I measured RDMSR with ecx == 0x10 to require ~90 cycles, and RDTSC to require "only" ~30 cycles. The timing will be similar or identical on the rest of the P6 family (Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Celeron). I don't have a Pentium 4 handy try this on, but I expect the performance difference between RDMSR and RDTSC would be even more pronounced due to the deeper pipeline among other things. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 19:15:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 19:15:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22046 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 19:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22042 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 19:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 19:15:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F1FF19A11; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:15:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBB19199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Djpa-0004wT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:08:10 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C15310A.FD5D7988@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <9usvhq$kcq$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:07:49 GMT D De Villiers wrote: > No Pascal implementation ? Pascal compiler etc etc ? Why? What use would it be? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 19:15:51 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 19:15:51 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22053 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 19:15:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22049 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 19:15:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 19:15:51 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 250AC19A1C; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:15:14 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1717B199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:14:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Djpa-0004wN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:08:10 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: tim Message-ID: <7e90b10a.0112101358.2b56db43@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] plan9.ini options for ide i/o port settings? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:07:37 GMT I have a onboard hpt366 ( highpoint tech 66dma controller ) which is not being detected automajically. I've checkout out the the archives and the plan9.ini man but I have yet to see anything about setting the i/o port for ide drives. i saw something about looking at the driver code and getting the manufactures number or what not but i'm hoping there is an setting for plan9.ini. i have the i/o ports from linux, (0xb000,0xb400 and 0xc000,0xc400) but just need a way to pass them to the system. all suggestions are appreciated - Tim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 19:16:11 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 19:16:11 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22066 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 19:16:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22062 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 19:16:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 19:16:10 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92EC919A2A; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:15:26 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87316199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Djox-0004uy-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:07:31 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C14FB74.FC6FDDF6@null.net> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20011209144857.992B819A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:07:09 GMT rob pike wrote: > touch should just try to set the mtime, if the file server > will let it. ... Right. NFS is an example of a filesystem that doesn't, so it requires an actual data transfer to update the time on the remote object. We ran into that with BRL's MDQS spooling system. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 19:16:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 19:16:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22074 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 19:16:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22070 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 19:16:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 19:16:32 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C0E619A2D; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:15:42 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57345199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Djpa-0004wZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:08:10 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C15925F.73746F2A@null.net> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200112102218.IAA08394@hadrian.staff.apnic.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] RDMA: DMA over TCP/IP at IETF Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:08:02 GMT George Michaelson wrote: > simple abstraction or inevitable nightmare? I don't think it's really either of those, but rather an adjustment of implementation to avoid wasting so many cycles on simply copying data around when it should already be within reach of the application. This kind of thing has been done within a host many times, e.g. on some variants of Unix there were hacks so that a user-mode buffer that an application arranged to be page- aligned would be directly mapped onto the kernel address space so DMA (for example) would directly get/put the data where the application wanted it. It would of course be much better if this didn't have to be done as a hack. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 19:58:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 19:58:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22790 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 19:58:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22786 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 19:58:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 19:58:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2DA119A17; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:58:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35145199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBBAvOBv015275 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:57:24 +0100 Message-ID: <3C15E692.18FA79CB@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] RDMA: DMA over TCP/IP at IETF References: <200112102218.IAA08394@hadrian.staff.apnic.net> <3C15925F.73746F2A@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:57:22 +0100 "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > many times, e.g. on some variants of Unix > there were hacks so that a user-mode buffer > that an application arranged to be page- > aligned would be directly mapped onto the > kernel address space so DMA (for example) > would directly get/put the data where the > application wanted it. It would of course > be much better if this didn't have to be > done as a hack. Some versions for the VAX mapped the UNIBUS address space smack on top on the clists so if you had tty h/w that could DMA (the DZ-11? or did you need KMC's for that?) you wouldn't have to map the UNIBUS for each DMA. This was a grody hack, but the alternatives were just too slow, particularily if you wanted to support 128 students on a '780. Mapping it into user mode is a real can of worms; not only is it highly unportable it really messes up the memory management because pages have to be locked. Locking is a nightmare; don't lock and you lose, have too many locks and horrible bugs appear either immediately [bad] or months/years later [worse]. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 20:56:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 20:56:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23522 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 20:56:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23518 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 20:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 20:56:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85B1919A08; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:56:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 201A3199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:55:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBBBt5Bv016246 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:55:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3C15F41A.A5C0157E@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) References: <20011209144857.992B819A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> <3C14FB74.FC6FDDF6@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:55:06 +0100 Some implementations of touch would read a byte and write it back. A total disaster for an append-only file. How many broken versions of touch have I seen? 5? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 21:31:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 21:31:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 23978 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 21:31:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23974 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 21:31:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 21:31:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9432319A19; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:31:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (unknown [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 015C4199F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:30:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA03414 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:04:10 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20011211140409.H2954@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Subject: [9fans] FS replication et al. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:04:09 +0200 I've been wondering: could the dump filesystem (I confess I still have only a very vague understanding of the mechanics involved) merge two or more update streams and retain their identities? And could one configure two dump servers to accept each other's modified blocks (assuming they both start from the same original filesystem) to provide a form of replication? I suppose what I'm asking is how much effort would be involved in adding such features - were they found to be useful - either to the existing fileserver or to the one presently under development. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Dec 11 21:36:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Dec 11 21:36:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24015 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Dec 2001 21:36:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24011 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 21:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 21:36:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6E5219A27; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:36:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7690E199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Dlx3-0000qe-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:24:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ramon Poca Message-ID: <3C15E793.3010602@eggs.and.spam.eds.com> Organization: Telefonica Transmision de Datos Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Updates Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:19:55 GMT I'm looking to the updates from plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist, and can't see clearly which ones I have to install. Supposing I downloaded the main OS .9gz three days ago, which updates should I install, in which order? Or are the updates included in the main distribution? -- (To reply, clean eggs and spam from the from line) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 01:25:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 01:25:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26734 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 01:25:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26730 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 01:25:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 01:25:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6265919A17; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:25:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 97A6419A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011211162438.97A6419A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:24:37 -0500 > Some implementations of touch would read a byte and write it back. was there a better way before wstat let you change mtime? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 01:34:27 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 01:34:27 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26853 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 01:34:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26849 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 01:34:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 01:34:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CCB119A0F; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:34:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F28CE199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:33:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBBGXPBv021335 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:33:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3C163556.580B5839@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) References: <20011211162438.97A6419A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:33:26 +0100 > was there a better way before wstat let you change mtime? That was in reference to unix/history. It was before the days of utime(2) and it was the only way to do it and then it just persisted, in about N different bad forms. One version wouldn't create the file if it didn't exist IIRC. And then all the different date formats for the time(s). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 01:39:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 01:39:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26912 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 01:39:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26908 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 01:39:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 01:39:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA1A819A19; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 93255199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:38:20 -0500 (EST) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9.ini options for ide i/o port settings? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011211163820.93255199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:38:18 -0500 There's currently no way to do that. The device has to be recognised from the PCI vendor and device ID in the driver. The driver code is deliberately conservative, there are many broken devices out there. However, it would not be much of a stretch to allow any unrecognised controller to be used in non-DMA mode. On Tue Dec 11 05:15:41 EST 2001, twojtasz@puma.dpg.devry.edu wrote: > I have a onboard hpt366 ( highpoint tech 66dma controller ) which is > not being detected automajically. I've checkout out the the archives > and the plan9.ini man but I have yet to see anything about setting the > i/o port for ide drives. i saw something about looking at the driver > code and getting the manufactures number or what not but i'm hoping > there is an setting for plan9.ini. > > i have the i/o ports from linux, (0xb000,0xb400 and 0xc000,0xc400) but > just need a way to pass them to the system. > > all suggestions are appreciated - Tim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 01:40:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 01:40:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26923 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 01:40:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26919 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 01:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 01:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3590519A29; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:40:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 511E019A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Updates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011211163926.511E019A1C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:25 -0500 If you just installed, you got the March 27, 2001 package, the most recent one. Any of the updates that occur on the above that package on the description page are not included. The order in which you update does not matter. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 02:01:32 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 02:01:32 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27161 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 02:01:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27157 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 02:01:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 02:01:31 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9FA919A11; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:01:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3545199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:00:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16Dq8d-0004Rk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:52:15 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Leo Caves Message-ID: <3C162D62.FC637AC3@ysbl.york.ac.uk> Organization: University of York Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20011207194145.1C49E199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] libXg/test.c Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:51:56 GMT David Gordon Hogan wrote: > > I started unifying all the various ``Plan 9 on Unix & Nt'' thingies > a while ago, but I got bogged down trying to make a better > Inferno, which nobody (here at least) really wanted. > David, care to elaborate on how you were trying to better inferno? Leo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 02:17:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 02:17:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27314 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 02:17:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27310 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 02:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 02:17:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB4B519A18; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:17:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46E24199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:16:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16DqKg-0005dz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:04:42 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Moritz W. Schmitt" Message-ID: <3c1632da$0$30081$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 mailing list Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:04:37 GMT Hello, I was wondering why it's not possible to subscribe to the Plan 9 mailing list? If I send a request to plan9-request@cse.psu.edu I get the following error message: 9fans-request@cse.psu.edu: SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO: <9fans-request@cse.psu.edu>: host psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]: 554 : Client host rejected: Access denied If I read the error message right, then my mail server got rejected because psuvax1.cse.psu.edu requieres authentication. Whatever the problem is, how can I subscribe? -mws From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 03:16:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 03:16:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27731 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 03:16:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27727 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 03:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 03:16:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4075119A25; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:16:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (unknown [205.185.197.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9E11319A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:15:41 -0500 (EST) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lidolyegiltnksrkzpgsplumrb" Message-Id: <20011211181541.9E11319A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:17:47 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lidolyegiltnksrkzpgsplumrb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks. We're leaving at 2pm. Last night Dan called and GG thinks they have cooled off some. We'll see. May just be the first of many trips. --upas-lidolyegiltnksrkzpgsplumrb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by edsac; Tue Dec 11 11:53:14 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A2F719A11; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:25:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 97A6419A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011211162438.97A6419A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:24:37 -0500 > Some implementations of touch would read a byte and write it back. was there a better way before wstat let you change mtime? --upas-lidolyegiltnksrkzpgsplumrb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 03:18:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 03:18:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27764 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 03:18:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27760 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 03:18:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 03:18:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0543919A2D; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:18:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EB05B19A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:17:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011211181758.EB05B19A2A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:17:57 -0500 > Thanks. no problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 03:26:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 03:26:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 27832 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 03:26:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27828 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 03:26:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 03:26:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08CD319A2A; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:26:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from workbench.borf.com (unknown [205.185.197.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8478619A04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:25:31 -0500 (EST) From: bwc@borf.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011211182531.8478619A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:27:38 -0500 Folks, I'm sorry. I want to confess to thinking ill of others who have fat-fingered personal email onto this group. I stand humbled . Brantley Coile From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 06:51:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 06:51:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29229 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 06:51:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29225 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 06:51:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 06:51:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D61C619A08; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:51:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6CB05199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:50:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 23179 invoked by uid 991); 11 Dec 2001 21:50:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20011211215014.23178.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, sam-fans@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu Subject: [9fans] libXg patch Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 11 Dec 2001 16:50:14 -0500 For those using libXg, if you want it to work with X11 unicode fonts (and there are a few these days) with more than 32K characters, don't forget to change libg.h to suit: ; diff libg.h.old libg.h 97,102c97,102 < short minrow; /* first character row in font (for X subfonts) */ < short mincol; /* first character col in font (for X subfonts) */ < short minchar; /* first char code in subfont */ < short maxchar; /* last char code in subfont */ < short width; /* number of chars in row */ < short n; /* number of chars in font */ --- > int minrow; /* first character row in font (for X subfonts) */ > int mincol; /* first character col in font (for X subfonts) */ > int minchar; /* first char code in subfont */ > int maxchar; /* last char code in subfont */ > int width; /* number of chars in row */ > int n; /* number of chars in font */ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 19:00:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 19:00:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14506 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 19:00:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14502 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 19:00:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 19:00:29 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFF22199B5; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:00:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C733199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:59:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16E60d-0002Lg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:49:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Moritz W. Schmitt" Message-ID: <3c168326$0$150$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <3c1632da$0$30081$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 mailing list Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:48:39 GMT This message is for everybody but Scott & Chris _not_ interesting. It's about email problems. This is the only way for me to contact them because their mail server considers my emails as spam. Sorry for bothering you others. -mws > I was wondering why it's not possible to subscribe > to the Plan 9 mailing list? If I send a request to > plan9-request@cse.psu.edu I get the following error > message: > > 9fans-request@cse.psu.edu: > SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO: > <9fans-request@cse.psu.edu>: > host psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]: > 554 : > Client host rejected: > Access denied Scott, for the case Chris (the postmaster of cse.psu.edu) is not on this list would you be so kind and forward this message to him? Thank you. ----- Chris, thank you for responding to my problem so quickly. But I think the exclusion of the domain kundenserver.de wasn't enough. My emails are still considered as spam and get rejected. In the following you'll find the whole message I received from your MTA. Here it goes: | This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. | | A message that you sent could not be delivered to all of its recipients. The | following address(es) failed: | | 9fans-request@cse.psu.edu: | SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO: | <9fans-request@cse.psu.edu>: | host psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]: | 550 Access Denied. Email for help. | | ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ | | Return-path: | Received: from [195.20.224.208] (helo=mrvdom01.schlund.de) | by moutvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) | id 16Du6E-0002G2-00 | for 9fans-request@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:06:02 +0100 | Received: from a5c11.pppool.de ([213.6.92.17] helo=mws) | by mrvdom01.schlund.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) | id 16Du6E-0001gt-00 | for 9fans-request@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:06:02 +0100 | Message-ID: <006801c18287$98707ff0$fe78a8c0@mws> | From: "Moritz W. Schmitt" | To: <9fans-request@cse.psu.edu> | (...) I'd really appreciate if you could read the header lines again then decide what to exclude from your SpamDomain list. Thanks, -mws From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 19:00:54 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 19:00:54 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14527 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 19:00:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14523 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 19:00:53 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 19:00:53 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1C3E19A19; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:00:15 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87C9E199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:59:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16E60c-0002LC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:49:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C165ECF.6E0AACCA@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200112102218.IAA08394@hadrian.staff.apnic.net>, <3C15E692.18FA79CB@strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] RDMA: DMA over TCP/IP at IETF Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:47:25 GMT Boyd Roberts wrote: > Some versions for the VAX mapped the UNIBUS address space > smack on top on the clists so if you had tty h/w that could > DMA (the DZ-11? or did you need KMC's for that?) you wouldn't > have to map the UNIBUS for each DMA. This was a grody hack, > but the alternatives were just too slow, particularily if > you wanted to support 128 students on a '780. My bet would be the KMC11-B; that was a nice hardware hack. The DZ11 didn't do DMA (but some other multiplexers did); I think one of the available DZ11 drivers had "pseudo DMA" to unify it with the other drivers. So far as I know the only DZ11 driver that had decent throughput was the one I wrote (originally for 6th Ed.); as a reminder the DZ11 had a small (32 char?) silo and interrupted when silo service was requested, BUT after moving data to/from the silo the "silo service request" flag was not set again even if it logically should be, for something like 30us, and typical drivers even though they were testing the silo before returning from interrupt were just not waiting long enough, with the effect that there was a separate interrupt service for *every* char. My solution was to burn up those 30us before testing, which might seem wasteful but actually paid off big time. > Mapping it into user mode is a real can of worms; not only is > it highly unportable it really messes up the memory management > because pages have to be locked. Locking is a nightmare; don't > lock and you lose, have too many locks and horrible bugs appear > either immediately [bad] or months/years later [worse]. I don't think there are any inherent problems. We've been locking disk inodes for eons. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 19:01:18 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 19:01:18 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14553 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 19:01:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14549 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 19:01:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 19:01:17 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E13BB19A2A; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:00:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85405199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:59:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16E60b-0002L6-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:49:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C165C57.D0DCCE89@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20011209144857.992B819A04@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <3C15F41A.A5C0157E@strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:47:12 GMT Boyd Roberts wrote: > Some implementations of touch would read a byte and write it back. > A total disaster for an append-only file. > How many broken versions of touch have I seen? 5? The problem was that there was no single way to implement "touch" that would always do what was wanted. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 19:01:43 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 19:01:43 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14569 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 19:01:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14565 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 19:01:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 19:01:43 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2435419A2D; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:00:37 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70879199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:59:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16E60c-0002LI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:49:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0112111205.3b7e52c9@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <3C15E793.3010602@eggs.and.spam.eds.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: Updates Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:47:49 GMT > Supposing I downloaded the main OS .9gz three days ago, which updates > should I install, in which order? Or are the updates included in the > main distribution? man 8 wrap - north_ http://blessedchildren.virtualave.net/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 19:02:04 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 19:02:04 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14599 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 19:02:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14595 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 19:02:03 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 19:02:03 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91EAD19A36; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:00:54 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 423EC199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16E60c-0002LO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:49:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87elm132x5.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20011209144857.992B819A04@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <3C14FB74.FC6FDDF6@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:48:01 GMT "Douglas A. Gwyn" writes: > rob pike wrote: > > touch should just try to set the mtime, if the file server > > will let it. ... > > Right. NFS is an example of a filesystem that doesn't, so it > requires an actual data transfer to update the time on the > remote object. We ran into that with BRL's MDQS spooling system. NFS has a set attributes call that does permit you to directly set the mtime. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 19:02:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 19:02:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14611 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 19:02:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14607 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 19:02:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 19:02:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C472E19A37; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:01:12 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D443199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16E60d-0002LU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:49:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87adwp32ua.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <9usvhq$kcq$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <3C15310A.FD5D7988@null.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:48:19 GMT "Douglas A. Gwyn" writes: > D De Villiers wrote: > > No Pascal implementation ? Pascal compiler etc etc ? > > Why? What use would it be? It would let you run Pascal programs. (No wonder Plan 9 hasn't caught on, with such simple things not noticed. ;)) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 19:02:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 19:02:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 14621 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 19:02:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14617 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 19:02:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 19:02:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B9D019A40; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:01:31 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86BEB199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:59:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16E60d-0002La-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:49:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: tim Message-ID: <7e90b10a.0112111309.2fe4c20@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <20011211163820.93255199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9.ini options for ide i/o port settings? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:48:28 GMT If thats the case I should be able to hook it up to the normal ata interface, to at least install, then I can fix that driver :) Thanks. jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote in message news:<20011211163820.93255199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu>... > There's currently no way to do that. The device has to be recognised > from the PCI vendor and device ID in the driver. > > The driver code is deliberately conservative, there are many broken > devices out there. However, it would not be much of a stretch to allow > any unrecognised controller to be used in non-DMA mode. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 20:12:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 20:12:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15671 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 20:12:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15667 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 20:12:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 20:12:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9935619A0B; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:12:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C051199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:11:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBCBBeBv008589 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:11:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3C173B6D.519A9DC1@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] RDMA: DMA over TCP/IP at IETF References: <200112102218.IAA08394@hadrian.staff.apnic.net>, <3C15E692.18FA79CB@strakt.com> <3C165ECF.6E0AACCA@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:11:41 +0100 "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > My bet would be the KMC11-B; that was a nice hardware hack. Yeah, we had DZ/KMC's. I think I ran into this mess when we [john, piers, me] 'ported' 8th Ed from the common 1127 '750 [comet] to our '780. It was trivial, but there was the odd glitch between the '750 and the '780; some silly compiler issued 16 bit extract field on the UNIBUS T[EU]-16 CSR -- the 780 did not like that. > I don't think there are any inherent problems. We've been > locking disk inodes for eons. I know that. I was referring to locking in general. IIRC the 'Multiprocessor sleep/wakeup' paper refers to a problem which was discovered when a new fast device was added to Plan 9. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 20:15:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 20:15:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 15707 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 20:15:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15703 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 20:15:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 20:15:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6221219A1C; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:15:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 393CD19A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:14:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBCBEeBv008639 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:14:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3C173C21.2DD4612D@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) References: <20011209144857.992B819A04@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <3C14FB74.FC6FDDF6@null.net> <87elm132x5.fsf@becket.becket.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:14:41 +0100 > NFS has a set attributes call that does permit you to directly set the > mtime. Yup, GETATTR / SETATTR -- the horror, the horror ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 21:40:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 21:40:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 16695 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 21:40:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16691 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 21:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 21:40:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 687F419A11; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:40:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ducksworth.com (lucifer.ducksworth.com [216.62.194.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69C35199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:39:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (samd@localhost) by ducksworth.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBCCd7D02641 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:39:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from sam@ducksworth.com) X-Authentication-Warning: lucifer.ducksworth.com: samd owned process doing -bs From: Sam Ducksworth X-X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: worm problems In-Reply-To: <20011210004903.8211F199B9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:39:07 -0600 (CST) kenji, thanks, i will give this a try and let you know my results. --sam On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: > Hello, > > For the safe of fs crash, I have written another backup tool. > > -WARNING- > You should examine this tool carefully by yourself > before you apply to your system. > --sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 22:45:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 22:45:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17487 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 22:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17483 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 22:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 22:45:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2B5D199F3; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:45:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8283A199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:44:11 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20011212134411.8283A199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:43:23 +0100 I would like to use unicode with troff to print on a regular ps printer, I tried with troff -ms -muni, but characters like á é ñ are not defined. Since my printer does not use unicode, anyone could send me a pointer to a place where to get these files? That way I could use -Tpost. Or is there a better way? thanks PS: Already tried google, no luck. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 22:47:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 22:47:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17583 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 22:47:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17579 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 22:47:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 22:47:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1950019A19; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:47:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4659619A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:46:32 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] RDMA: DMA over TCP/IP at IETF From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212134632.4659619A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:46:30 -0500 > IIRC the 'Multiprocessor sleep/wakeup' paper refers to a problem > which was discovered when a new fast device was added to Plan 9. If I recall correctly, "IIRC" is a shorthand for "if I recall correctly", and either you don't or I don't. The problem the paper addressed was a general one introduced by, er, doing sleep/wakeup on a multiprocessor. The paper is also incomplete; when notes were added to the system shortly after, it took years to get the code to its current approximation of correctness. The general approach of using a tool to help was not abandoned, however; the system just kept changing under the model. Nowadays, Holzmann's stuff is applied directly to the kernel sources, which helps a lot. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 22:49:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 22:49:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17611 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 22:49:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17607 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 22:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 22:49:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49C9819A25; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:49:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9 (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 83E8819A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212134840.83E8819A1C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:48:39 -0500 Just use the unicode device (not -Tpost) and then run the result through aux/download -f -H/sys/lib/postscript/font -mfontmap -r/sys/lib/postscript/font/lw+ to pick up the extra fonts your printer needs. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 22:52:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 22:52:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17652 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 22:52:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17648 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 22:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 22:52:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2126219A29; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:52:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E70A819A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:51:15 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212135115.E70A819A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:51:14 -0500 > Just use the unicode device (not -Tpost) and then run the result through The device name is "utf": rob% troff .fl x T utf x res 720 1 1 x init V0 p1 ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 23:03:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 23:03:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17833 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 23:03:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17829 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 23:03:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 23:03:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFC00199F3; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:03:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8174A199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:02:33 -0500 (EST) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr" Message-Id: <20011212140233.8174A199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:02:17 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit still no á é ⁱ... in the printer. Any other idea? thanks --upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Dec 12 14:49:24 MET 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49C9819A25; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:49:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9 (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 83E8819A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212134840.83E8819A1C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:48:39 -0500 Just use the unicode device (not -Tpost) and then run the result through aux/download -f -H/sys/lib/postscript/font -mfontmap -r/sys/lib/postscript/font/lw+ to pick up the extra fonts your printer needs. Russ --upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Dec 12 23:08:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Dec 12 23:08:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 17882 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Dec 2001 23:08:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17878 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2001 23:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Dec 2001 23:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5975819A0C; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:08:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2D509199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:07:56 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212140756.2D509199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:07:49 -0500 What troff font are you using in the document? troff ... | grep '^x ' Look those up in /sys/lib/troff/font and make sure you see the corresponding fonts in the postscript output troff ... | lp -dstdout | grep DocumentFonts From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 00:46:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 00:46:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19012 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 00:46:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19008 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 00:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 00:46:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB47E19A0B; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:46:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 37388199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:45:08 -0500 (EST) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212154508.37388199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:44:37 +0100 the default fonts work like a charm. In my previous attempt, download seemed to have problems because I was forcing LucidaSans fonts. I'm sorry to bother you all but I'm a troff novice. It impressive, this is the first time I wrote a document in troff (other than manual pages) and I think I already prefer it to LaTeX (no flame wars please). thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:08:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:08:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19657 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:08:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19653 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:08:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69850199EE; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:08:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A4535199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:07:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ofiwvpbyjagmpfoazrixydghja" Message-Id: <20011212170722.A4535199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:07:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ofiwvpbyjagmpfoazrixydghja Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If the characters appear correctly when previewing with page(1), then there is a way to get them to the printer. If not, then I'm confused. Using LucidaSans fonts should be okay. Russ --upas-ofiwvpbyjagmpfoazrixydghja Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Dec 12 09:03:18 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Dec 12 09:03:16 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2261199ED; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:03:05 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8174A199B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:02:33 -0500 (EST) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr" Message-Id: <20011212140233.8174A199B5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:02:17 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit still no á é ⁱ... in the printer. Any other idea? thanks --upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Dec 12 14:49:24 MET 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49C9819A25; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:49:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9 (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 83E8819A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212134840.83E8819A1C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:48:39 -0500 Just use the unicode device (not -Tpost) and then run the result through aux/download -f -H/sys/lib/postscript/font -mfontmap -r/sys/lib/postscript/font/lw+ to pick up the extra fonts your printer needs. Russ --upas-wsonzkqaoyjoalvfecuewnexdr-- --upas-ofiwvpbyjagmpfoazrixydghja-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:12:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:12:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19690 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:12:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19686 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:12:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82C4519A0C; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:12:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 93AE419A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:11:29 -0500 (EST) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/lib/troff/font/devpost ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212171129.93AE419A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:10:16 +0100 The characters appear on page, and now (see my previous mail) they work on the printer too. Thanks a lot for your help. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:17:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:17:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19746 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:17:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19742 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:17:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:17:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4915D19A19; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:17:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from web9602.mail.yahoo.com (web9602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2510A199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:16:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20011212171643.80661.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.219.35.211] by web9602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:16:43 PST From: William Gunnells To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] plan9 fileserver help Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:16:43 -0800 (PST) Hello! Pleae help I'm trying to setup the file server via the instruction from WIKI and its not working. I left off in the instructions here... assuming you use the same setup I did earlier, type the following at the standalone CPU/auth server console: srv il!lance mount -c /srv/il!lance /n/lance cd /dist wrap/inst -ovr /n/lance plan9.9gz (use wrap/inst for any other packages, e.g., I get error connect time out error I believe I followed all the instructions from wiki that leads up to file server creation __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:19:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:19:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19755 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:19:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19751 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:19:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:19:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44FFD19A28; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:19:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD39F199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:18:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16ECwJ-0001HZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:13:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: D De Villiers <~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za> Message-ID: <9v82ui$53i$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Organization: The South African Internet Exchange References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <9usvhq$kcq$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <3C15310A.FD5D7988@null.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:12:26 GMT > Why? What use would it be? Writting software ! What * use * else... Pascal has been ported to many platforms - Borland's Delphi (Windows), Kylix (Linux) etc with alot of Pascal dialects - Free Pascal etc. Just wondering if Pascal compiler avialable for Plan9 OS. Regards, Lennie De Villiers --- Remove ~ and 9s from e-mail address to reply --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:30:46 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:30:46 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19815 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:30:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19811 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:30:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:30:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63A7519A10; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:30:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BA4E199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:29:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16ED5n-0001Yp-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:22:51 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: D De Villiers <~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za> Message-ID: <9v82ul$53i$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Organization: The South African Internet Exchange References: <9uo884$d2j$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <9usvhq$kcq$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages -- Anyother ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:21:47 GMT Any other programming languages avialable ? What about Java VM (run Java applications in Plan9) etc etc. Regards, Lennie De Villiers --- Remove ~ and 9s from e-mail address to reply --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:31:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:31:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19830 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:31:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19826 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:31:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:31:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2111819A29; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:31:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F416319A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBCHUOBv015004 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:30:24 +0100 Message-ID: <3C179431.8AE76198@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] RDMA: DMA over TCP/IP at IETF References: <20011212134632.4659619A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:30:25 +0100 rob pike wrote: > > If I recall correctly, "IIRC" is a shorthand for "if I recall correctly", > and either you don't or I don't. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/sleep.html: The mistake is that the reading of r->p may occur just as the other process calls sleep, so when the interrupt examines the structure it sees no one to wake up, and the sleeping process misses its wakeup. We wrote the code this way because we reasoned that the fetch p = r->p was inherently atomic and need not be interlocked. The bug was found by examination when a new, very fast device was added to the system and sleeps and interrupts were closely overlapped. However, it was in the system for a couple of months without causing an error. > Nowadays, Holzmann's stuff is applied directly to the kernel > sources, which helps a lot. spin [Holzmann's stuff] is a really neat idea. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:36:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:36:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19866 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:36:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19862 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5195B19A25; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:36:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from new-york.lcs.mit.edu (new-york.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CDF3199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:35:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (24-6-152.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.152]) by new-york.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with SMTP id fBCHZod13487 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:35:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112121735.fBCHZod13487@new-york.lcs.mit.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages -- Anyother ? From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:35:49 -0500 moscow ml (standard ml 2.0 interpreter), python, perl, newsqueak, awk, rc, sh, acid, troff, hoc, bc, dc, gs, mp. if you want something in particular, you could always port it. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 02:52:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 02:52:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 19954 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 02:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19950 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 02:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 02:52:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D97E119A0B; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:52:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail.snellwilcox.com (mail.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 49DD7199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:51:24 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Received: from ccMail by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.51.00.11) id 316902047; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:54:08 +0000 Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re:[9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Message-Id: <316902047@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <316902047-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:52:06 +0000 p2c written by Dave Gillespie, and posted to comp.sources.unix in March, 1990 (Volume 21); also available by anonymous ftp from csvax.cs.caltech.edu, file pub/p2c-1.20.tar.Z . ptoc another comp.sources.unix contribution, this one written in Pascal (comp.sources.unix, Volume 10, also patches in Volume 13?). -Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 06:51:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 06:51:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21450 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 06:51:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21446 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 06:51:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 06:51:28 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF79019A06; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:51:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F2DE7199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:50:52 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? From: David Gordon Hogan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:50:47 -0500 > > Why? What use would it be? > > Writting software ! What * use * else... I've never found Pascal to be particularly useful for writing software. I understand that it was originally intended for teaching purposes, but there are some tasks which are so difficult to do correctly with Pascal that you have to learn how to program again when you start using a real language, like C. And then there's Basic... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 07:45:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 07:45:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 21880 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 07:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21876 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 07:45:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 07:45:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 318C619A00; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:45:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (host80-0-45-17.no-dns-yet.ntli.net [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2A437199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:44:10 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ugrpkgxqxyzdrgwkdaiwmscuqy" Message-Id: <20011212224410.2A437199BB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:43:58 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ugrpkgxqxyzdrgwkdaiwmscuqy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it was intended -- and used -- for more than just teaching, but unfortunately even the ISO Standard Pascal language does not provide portable ways of accessing system functions of post-mainframe operating systems (even interactive i/o might not be provided). consequently there are a great many dialects and specialised extensions. Standard Pascal is a small language that is fairly easy to implement though. on the other hand, ISO Extended Pascal still doesn't provide portable ways of doing many of the things missing from Standard Pascal either, but it's not small. It began as a simple and achievable standards committee project to add 4 or 5 obvious and simple extensions to Standard Pascal, to address the most common portability problems (opening an external file named interactively, for instance), but it took on a life of its own. (i bequeathed my copy of the resulting huge stack of paper to the university when i left.) --upas-ugrpkgxqxyzdrgwkdaiwmscuqy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1008193896:10:05998:0; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:51:36 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005823; 12 Dec 2001 21:51 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF79019A06; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:51:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F2DE7199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:50:52 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:50:47 -0500 > > Why? What use would it be? > > Writting software ! What * use * else... I've never found Pascal to be particularly useful for writing software. I understand that it was originally intended for teaching purposes, but there are some tasks which are so difficult to do correctly with Pascal that you have to learn how to program again when you start using a real language, like C. And then there's Basic... --upas-ugrpkgxqxyzdrgwkdaiwmscuqy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 07:57:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 07:57:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22087 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 07:57:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22083 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 07:57:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 07:57:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 909BE19A0F; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:57:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from gsyc.escet.urjc.es (gsyc064.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.64]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2E1319A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from nanonic.hilbert.space (80-26-99-12.uc.nombres.ttd.es [80.26.99.12]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA10962 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:55:17 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host 80-26-99-12.uc.nombres.ttd.es [80.26.99.12] claimed to be nanonic.hilbert.space Received: from paurea by nanonic.hilbert.space with local (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 16EIGM-0004x4-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:54:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15383.57358.576253.432383@nanonic.hilbert.space> From: paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? In-Reply-To: <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu>:David Gordon Hogan's message of 16:50:47 Wednesday,12 December 2001 References: <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.97 under Emacs 20.7.2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:54:06 +0100 David Gordon Hogan writes: > From: David Gordon Hogan > Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:50:47 -0500 > > > > Why? What use would it be? Isn't TeX written in pascal?. -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 08:10:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 08:10:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22215 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 08:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22211 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 08:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 08:10:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7908C19A1C; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:10:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5A22199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24295 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:09:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id SAA16841; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:09:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112122309.SAA16841@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 fileserver help Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <20011212171643.80661.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:09:12 -0500 (EST) In article <20011212171643.80661.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> you write: >Pleae help I'm trying to setup the file server via the >instruction from WIKI and its not working. > >I left off in the instructions here... >assuming you use the same setup I did earlier, type >the following at the standalone CPU/auth server >console: > > srv il!lance > mount -c /srv/il!lance /n/lance > cd /dist > wrap/inst -ovr /n/lance plan9.9gz > (use wrap/inst for any other packages, e.g., > >I get error connect time out error > >I believe I followed all the instructions from wiki >that leads up to file server creation Is your fileserver actually called lance? Is its name, etc in /lib/ndb/local? Is the fileserver up and running? Can you ping it? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 08:17:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 08:17:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22274 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 08:17:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22270 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 08:17:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 08:17:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02E0F19A25; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:17:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4310E199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:16:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from HOWARDLTMH2 ([135.104.50.18]) by plan9; Wed Dec 12 18:16:18 EST 2001 From: "Howard Trickey" To: , <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Message-ID: <000601c18363$18867330$12326887@HOWARDLTMH2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <15383.57358.576253.432383@nanonic.hilbert.space> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:16:57 -0500 > Isn't TeX written in pascal?. yeah, except that Knuth used an extension --- an "others" clause in case statements --- that made it hard to port to Unix (I did the initial port by hacking the pascal compiler; now the pascal is converted to C). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 08:24:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 08:24:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 22376 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 08:24:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22372 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 08:24:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 08:24:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B4E519A26; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:24:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 397EB19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:23:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26347 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:23:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id SAA16908; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:23:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112122323.SAA16908@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <15383.57358.576253.432383@nanonic.hilbert.space> References: <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:23:10 -0500 (EST) In article <15383.57358.576253.432383@nanonic.hilbert.space> you write: >Isn't TeX written in pascal?. Not exactly; TeX is written in a literate programming language that looks a lot like Pascal, but is not, in fact, Pascal. Pascal shares a lot with the other so called Algol-derived languages, particularly in the area of syntax. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 09:55:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 09:55:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 24311 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 09:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24307 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 09:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 09:55:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5426719A1C; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz (210-55-57-168.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.55.57.168]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFFA619A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([192.168.0.63]) by frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:52:40 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20011213135527.00982c98@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? In-Reply-To: <15383.57358.576253.432383@nanonic.hilbert.space> References: <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2001 00:52:40.0436 (UTC) FILETIME=[774F8340:01C18370] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:55:27 +1300 > >Isn't TeX written in pascal?. >-- > The original TeX was written in a language called Web, which tries to address some of the limitations of standard Pascal. When the Web source is run through a program called Tangle it generates Pascal source code, and when run through a program called Weave it generates an allegedly attractive and easier to follow version of the program, although I personally find the resultant programs virtually impossible to follow. It's all described in Knuth's book "Literate Programming", and the program itself can be seen in the book "TeX, The Program". Knuth gave up the Pascal version some time ago, and now uses a C version called CWeb. A lot of Macintosh software used to be written in Pascal, which probably is not a recommendation around here, but C & C++ seem to have almost taken over now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 10:28:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 10:28:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25339 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 10:28:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25335 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 10:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 10:28:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 325C719A19; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:28:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C52AF19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:27:35 -0500 (EST) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011213012735.C52AF19A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: worm problems Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:27:33 +0900 Hello >kenji, > >thanks, i will give this a try and let you know my results. > >--sam Latest version is in: ftp://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/cmd/backup/ or ftp://ar.aichi-u.ac.jp/plan9/cmd/backup/ Some bugs are removed from posted version. Try the latest verion. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 10:42:29 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 10:42:29 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 25776 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 10:42:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25772 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 10:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 10:42:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E926519A0F; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:42:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 368FA19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:41:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Dec 12 20:41:20 EST 2001 Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([141.154.231.249]) by plan9; Wed Dec 12 20:41:18 EST 2001 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011213014122.368FA19A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:41:17 -0500 > The original TeX was written in a language called Web, which tries to > address some of the limitations of standard Pascal. When the Web source is > run through a program called Tangle it generates Pascal source code, and > when run through a program called Weave it generates an allegedly > attractive and easier to follow version of the program, although I > personally find the resultant programs virtually impossible to follow. Suppose you subscribe to the Kernighan & Plauger thesis that programs should be clear. Then the fundamental problem here is that literate programming provides yet another way not to address a lack of clarity in the program. If a program doesn't make sense at first reading, it doesn't need extra text describing it; it needs a good rewrite. Too often, people spend their time documenting a bad program instead of rewriting it into a good program. It's been many years since I looked at Knuth's book, so I'm not claiming this is or is not his problem. However, I've worked with enough literate programs in the past couple years to know that it can be a problem. On the other hand, if you start with a clear program then I think literate programming isn't such a bad way to make it accessible to a larger audience, especially one that isn't experienced in reading code they didn't write. > It's all described in Knuth's book "Literate Programming", and the program > itself can be seen in the book "TeX, The Program". Knuth gave up the Pascal > version some time ago, and now uses a C version called CWeb. This is not true. As Howard said, the Pascal is still very much there, just converted to C as part of the build process. If you don't believe me, try: cd /sys/src/cmd/tex/web2c/tex /sys/lib/texmf/bin/$cputype/tangle tex.web tex.ch sed 20q tex.p Also, quoted from /sys/src/cmd/tex/web2c/doc/web2c.info-1: % "Web2c" is the name of a TeX implementation, originally for Unix, but % now also running under DOS, Amiga, and other operating systems. By "TeX % implementation", we mean all of the standard programs developed by the % Stanford TeX project directed by Donald E. Knuth: Metafont, DVItype, % GFtoDVI, BibTeX, Tangle, etc., as well as TeX itself. Other programs % are also included: DVIcopy, written by Peter Breitenlohner, MetaPost % and its utilities (derived from Metafont), by John Hobby, etc. % % General strategy: Web2c works, as its name implies, by translating the % WEB source in which TeX is written into C source code. Its output is % not self-contained, however; it makes extensive use of many macros and % functions in a library (the `web2c/lib' directory in the sources). % Therefore, it will not work without change on an arbitrary WEB program. % % [...] % % History: Tomas Rokicki originated the TeX-to-C system in 1987, % working from the first change files for TeX under Unix, which were done % primarily by Howard Trickey and Pavel Curtis. Tim Morgan then took over % development and maintenance for a number of years; the name changed to % Web-to-C somewhere in there. In 1990, Karl Berry became the % maintainer. He made many changes to the original sources, and started % using the shorter name Web2c. In 1997, Olaf Weber took over. Dozens of % other people have contributed; their names are listed in the % `ChangeLog' files. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 10:51:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 10:51:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26059 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 10:51:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26054 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 10:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 10:51:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6452819A1C; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:51:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz (210-55-57-168.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.55.57.168]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C76119A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:50:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([192.168.0.63]) by frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:48:45 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20011213145132.00982c98@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? In-Reply-To: <20011213014122.368FA19A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2001 01:48:45.0846 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D405360:01C18378] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:51:32 +1300 >This is not true. As Howard said, the Pascal is still very much >there, just converted to C as part of the build process. If you >don't believe me, try: > As regards TeX I'm sure you're right - I meant that Knuth seems to use CWeb for the new stuff he writes - many examples on http://www.cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 10:55:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 10:55:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 26204 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 10:55:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26200 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 10:55:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 10:55:33 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C530919A0B; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz (210-55-57-168.adsl.xtra.co.nz [210.55.57.168]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D94019A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:54:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERCURY ([192.168.0.63]) by frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:52:33 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20011213145520.0098ab08@pop3.clear.net.nz> X-Sender: mbml/andrew@pop3.clear.net.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20011213145132.00982c98@pop3.clear.net.nz> References: <20011213014122.368FA19A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2001 01:52:33.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5215450:01C18378] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:55:20 +1300 At 14:51 13/12/2001 +1300, you wrote: >http://www.cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/ > Or alternatively, on http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 13:06:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 13:06:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 29915 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 13:06:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29909 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 13:06:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 13:06:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2B9F19A0F; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:06:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EA28819A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:05:32 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011213040532.EA28819A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:05:30 -0500 I thought the original TeX was written in SAIL. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 13:26:41 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 13:26:41 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 30527 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 13:26:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30523 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 13:26:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 13:26:40 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE89319A19; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:26:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1699619A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:25:44 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? From: "rob pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011213042544.1699619A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:25:41 -0500 When I worked in Switzerland I used Pascal on the 7600 at ETH, Klaus's very compiler on Klaus's very machine. It was a fascinating exercise because I learned a great deal about why Pascal, particularly Pascal I/O, is so bizarre. It has to with generalities and even I think a few local specifics of the operating system Control Data installed on this particular machine. When the input is a card deck and you can always see if the next card is $EOF$ (or something like that), the handling of EOF on a terminal is far from your mind and Pascal's nextln and all that almost seems OK. In that weird world, Pascal I/O made sense to me, but in no other. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 19:38:26 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 19:38:26 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6802 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 19:38:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6798 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 19:38:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 19:38:26 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 160B019A0F; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:38:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 035E8199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16ET6r-0000Xe-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:29:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3C17CDF7.A511E39C@null.net> Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <9usvhq$kcq$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <3C15310A.FD5D7988@null.net>, <87adwp32ua.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:26:51 GMT "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: > "Douglas A. Gwyn" writes: > > D De Villiers wrote: > > > No Pascal implementation ? Pascal compiler etc etc ? > > Why? What use would it be? > It would let you run Pascal programs. And what use would *that* be? Seriously, are there any major apps written in Pascal? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 19:39:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 19:39:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 6815 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 19:39:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6811 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 19:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 19:39:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30B3819A25; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:39:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A820F19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16ET6s-0000Xl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:29:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ozan Yigit Message-ID: Organization: York University References: <20011213040532.EA28819A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:27:05 GMT rob@plan9.bell-labs.com (rob pike) writes: > I thought the original TeX was written in SAIL. you are right. according to the intro in TeX82[1], a complete version of TeX was designed and coded in SAIL in the late 1977 and 1978. [earlier protoTeX by Plass and Liang was also written in SAIL] oz -- www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz | if you couldn't find any weirdness, maybe york u. computer science | we'll just have to make some! -- hobbes [1] TeX82 report, version 0.999, july 1983. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 20:05:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 20:05:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7174 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 20:05:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7170 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 20:05:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 20:05:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1351F19A19; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:05:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 25519199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:04:48 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011213110448.25519199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] What do you use for bib references w/ troff? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:04:54 +0100 the subject says it all. thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 20:55:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 20:55:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 7854 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 20:55:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7849 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 20:55:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 20:55:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D13819A17; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:55:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A64EF199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:54:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBDBsfBv001377 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:54:41 +0100 Message-ID: <3C189702.CD57F5CF@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? References: <20011212215052.F2DE7199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> <15383.57358.576253.432383@nanonic.hilbert.space> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:54:42 +0100 > Isn't TeX written in pascal?. More or less (there is a thing called web involved too IIRC), but that comment just about sums it up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 21:15:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 21:15:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 8144 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 21:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8140 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 21:15:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 21:15:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B9F119A27; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:15:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D7F0199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16EUbd-0003Dt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:04:53 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Wladimir Mutel Message-ID: <1008244320.889635@firewall.isd.dp.ua> Organization: ISD References: <3C15310A.FD5D7988@null.net>, <87adwp32ua.fsf@becket.becket.net>, <3C17CDF7.A511E39C@null.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:04:45 GMT Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: >> "Douglas A. Gwyn" writes: >> > D De Villiers wrote: >> > > No Pascal implementation ? Pascal compiler etc etc ? >> > Why? What use would it be? >> It would let you run Pascal programs. > And what use would *that* be? > Seriously, are there any major apps written in Pascal? TEX was. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 22:45:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 22:45:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 9353 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 22:45:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9349 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 22:45:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 22:45:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE9FD19A26; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:45:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54942199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:44:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16EW5a-0006yd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:39:54 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Message-ID: <87lmg7tu1j.fsf@becket.becket.net> Organization: University of California, Irvine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20011213040532.EA28819A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- PASCAL? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:39:36 GMT rob@plan9.bell-labs.com (rob pike) writes: > I thought the original TeX was written in SAIL. Yes, but that program has no genetic relationship to the current TeX. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 23:36:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 23:36:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10010 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 23:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10006 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 23:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 23:36:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B969219A26; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:36:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B76CB199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:35:13 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@closedmind.org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011213143513.B76CB199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:35:12 -0500 Is there a pascal compiler written in pascal? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 23:49:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 23:49:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10162 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 23:49:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10158 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 23:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 23:49:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66C4819A27; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:49:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D68AB199FA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:48:14 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@closedmind.org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20011213144814.D68AB199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] pascal & plan 9, perfect together Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:48:08 -0500 I should have said more. If anyone wants pascal badly enough and if there's a public pascal compiler that they like with its pcode available, it should be pretty easy to translate one of the pcode interpreters to Plan 9 (Kathy Jensen's was only a few hundred lines of Pascal) and bootstrap yourself to joyful oblivion. I really don't like the language much, the same IO peeve, but it's probably the easiest one to bootstrap because of the pcode. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Dec 13 23:50:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Dec 13 23:50:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10173 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Dec 2001 23:50:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10169 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 23:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 23:50:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FA3B19A2B; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:50:11 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail507.nifty.com (mail507.nifty.com [202.248.37.215]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64AA219A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:49:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.31] by mail507.nifty.com (8.11.6+3.4W/3.7W-09/06/01) with ESMTP id fBDEngK14220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:49:43 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: fxba0016@mb.infoweb.ne.jp (Unverified) X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Version 4.3.2-J Message-Id: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Moroo Jun Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [9fans] bind, kill, tlssrv question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:49:41 +0900 I used Plan9 for some month. I have some questions for plan9. Are there any web page FAQ for new users like this? I know Plan9 FAQ by FYWSS. 1. bind Can I unbind directory? For example % cat /usr/jun/a/t This is a % cat /usr/jun/b/t This is b % bind /usr/jun/a /usr/jun/b % ls /usr/jun/b /usr/jun/b/t % cat /usr/jun/b/t This is a % In this case, how can I access to b's original t? or can I unbind 'a' from 'b'? 2. kill process Can I kill other owner's process? For example % ip/httpd/httpd % ps ... none 157 0:00 0:00 1284K Open httpd % kill httpd % (No message) How can I kill httpd? 3. Imap4 with SSL In /bin/service.auth/tcp993, it execute "tlssrv". Where can I find it? -- Moroo Jun From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 00:08:22 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 00:08:22 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10493 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 00:08:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10489 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 00:08:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 00:08:21 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99C8219A2B; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:08:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73D2A19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:07:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16EX76-0001UR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:45:32 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Thomas Mandl Message-ID: <3C18BCDC.ECFB12A5@EUnet.at> Organization: KPNQwest customer news service Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Mach64 Problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: thomas.mandl@eunet.at List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:44:55 GMT Hi List, i just started to install my Plan9 distribution July 29th 2000) and ran into troubles with my VGA. I browsed through comp.os.plan9 and saw several entries related to my problem. Can you help? The VGA is a ATI Mach64 Graphics Pro Turbo (PCI). I tried with a Compaq S3 Virge/GX PCI V1.92 first but this card also does not work. Here's the dump from VGAINFO.TXT for the Mach64 card: aux/vga: controller not in /lib/vgadb 0xC0000 55 AA 40 EB 7B 1E FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 U.@.{........... 0xC0010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 01 00 00 00 00 49 42 ........ ......IB 0xC0020 4D 00 F0 7B 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 M..{............ 0xC0030 20 37 36 31 32 39 35 35 32 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 761295520...... 0xC0040 33 31 00 20 00 00 00 00 FC 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 31. ............. 0xC0050 31 39 39 35 2F 34 2F 35 20 31 30 3A 35 36 00 00 1995/4/5 10:56.. 0xC0060 00 00 00 00 E9 28 51 00 E9 1D 51 00 E9 19 10 00 ......(Q...Q..... 0xC0070 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................. 0xC0080 E9 B5 00 0D 0A 41 54 49 20 4D 41 43 48 36 34 2C .....ATI MACH64, 0xC0090 20 50 43 49 20 42 49 4F 53 20 50 2F 4E 20 31 31 PCI BIOS P/N 11 0xC00A0 33 2D 32 35 35 33 35 2D 31 30 30 20 0D 0A 00 28 3-25535-100 ....( 0xC00B0 43 29 20 31 39 38 38 2D 39 35 2C 20 41 54 49 20 C) 1988-95, ATI 0xC00C0 54 65 63 68 6E 6F 6C 6F 67 69 65 73 20 49 6E 63 Technologies Inc 0xC00D0 2E 42 4B 33 2E 35 2F 31 2E 30 32 31 4D 41 43 48 ..BK3.5/1.021MACH 0xC00E0 36 34 47 58 50 43 49 55 59 4D 4D 31 30 30 2D 32 64GXPCIUYMM100-2 0xC00F0 39 32 30 30 2D 30 30 20 00 00 22 00 00 A0 01 15 9200-00 ..."..... main->snarf vga->snarf vga->dump vga misc 67 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 00 03 00 02 vga crt 5F 4F 50 82 55 81 BF 1F - 00 4F 0D 0E 00 00 05 A0 9C 8E 8F 28 1F 96 B9 A3 - FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 10 0E 00 - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 - 38 39 3A 3B 3C 3D 3E 3F 0C 00 0F 08 00 vga apz 0 vga linear 0 vmf 25175000 vmdf 0 vf1 0 vbw 0 vga->init dbdumpmode type=vga, size=640x480x1 frequency=25175000 x=640 (0x280), y=480 (0x1E0), z=1 (0x1) ht=800 (0x320), shb=664 (0x298), ehb=760 (0x2F8) shs=664 (0x298), ehs=760 (0x2F8) vt=525 (0x20D), vrs=491 (0x1EB), vre=493 (0x1ED) hsync=0, vsync=0, interlace=0 vga->dump vga flag Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf vga misc E3 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 01 0F 00 06 vga crt 5F 4F 52 9F 53 1F20B 3E - 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 1EB 2D1DF 28 001EB1EC C3 -7FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 0F - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 - 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 01 FF 0F 00 00 vga apz 0 vga linear 0 main->exits My plan9.ini file is: *nomp=1 distname=plan9 partition=new monitor=multisync75 vgasize=640x480x8 mouseport=ps2 bootargs=local!#f0/fd0disk bootfile=fd0!dos!9pcflop.gz Any ideas how to get the VGA working. Which cards work out of the box? Many thanks for your help Thomas -- Thomas Mandl - UNIX, Linux and IT-Security Consultant Mandl IT-Consulting e-mail : Thomas.Mandl@EUnet.at WWW : http://members.EUnet.at/thomas.mandl PGP : PGP/GnuPG available on request Phone : +43 (0) 676/53 60 497 (Cellular Phone) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 00:11:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 00:11:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10571 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 00:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10567 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 00:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 00:11:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D649E19A30; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:11:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B803219A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:10:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 57357 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 08:10:54 -0700 Received: from snaresland.acl.lanl.gov (128.165.147.113) by acl.lanl.gov with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 08:10:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 7901 invoked by uid 3499); 13 Dec 2001 08:10:53 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Ronald G Minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <20011213143513.B76CB199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20011213143513.B76CB199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01121308105307.07852@snaresland> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:10:53 -0700 On Thursday 13 December 2001 07:35, you wrote: > Is there a pascal compiler written in pascal? There used to be, I know someone who did one. But that was long ago. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 00:20:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 00:20:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10670 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 00:20:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10666 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 00:20:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 00:20:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEB2919A31; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:20:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from devil.lucid (pc1-dale5-0-cust136.not.cable.ntl.com [80.1.76.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8BAE19A25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:19:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from there (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by devil.lucid (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fBDFIol45126 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:18:56 GMT (envelope-from matt@proweb.co.uk) Message-Id: <200112131518.fBDFIol45126@devil.lucid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Matt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [OT] pascal X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] References: <20011213143513.B76CB199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> <01121308105307.07852@snaresland> In-Reply-To: <01121308105307.07852@snaresland> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:18:50 +0000 try google http://www.freepascal.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 00:24:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 00:24:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 10711 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 00:24:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10707 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 00:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 00:24:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65C5819A35; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:24:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9583319A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:23:09 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: moroo@nifty.com Subject: Re: [9fans] bind, kill, tlssrv question From: forsyth@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-euqhsheqcuyrkheaeyxfgjvlcq" Message-Id: <20011213152309.9583319A32@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:29:37 0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-euqhsheqcuyrkheaeyxfgjvlcq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. binds are undone by unmount (described on the same manual page as bind, namely bind(1)) 2. you can't kill another's process unless you are the owner of a terminal or cpu server and even then you need to change the mode of the process file before killing it. % ps forsyth 1 0:00 0:00 64K Wait init ... none 847 0:00 0:00 1284K Open httpd forsyth 848 0:00 0:00 56K Read ps % % echo kill >/proc/847/ctl /proc/847/ctl: rc: can't open % chmod 666 /proc/847/ctl % echo kill >/proc/847/ctl 3. i don't think tlssrv has been distributed yet --upas-euqhsheqcuyrkheaeyxfgjvlcq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1008255033:20:07414:6; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:50:33 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2127980; 13 Dec 2001 14:50 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B40019A28; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:50:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mail507.nifty.com (mail507.nifty.com [202.248.37.215]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64AA219A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:49:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.31] by mail507.nifty.com (8.11.6+3.4W/3.7W-09/06/01) with ESMTP id fBDEngK14220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:49:43 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: fxba0016@mb.infoweb.ne.jp (Unverified) X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Version 4.3.2-J Message-Id: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [9fans] bind, kill, tlssrv question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:49:41 +0900 I used Plan9 for some month. I have some questions for plan9. Are there any web page FAQ for new users like this? I know Plan9 FAQ by FYWSS. 1. bind Can I unbind directory? For example % cat /usr/jun/a/t This is a % cat /usr/jun/b/t This is b % bind /usr/jun/a /usr/jun/b % ls /usr/jun/b /usr/jun/b/t % cat /usr/jun/b/t This is a % In this case, how can I access to b's original t? or can I unbind 'a' from 'b'? 2. kill process Can I kill other owner's process? For example % ip/httpd/httpd % ps ... none 157 0:00 0:00 1284K Open httpd % kill httpd % (No message) How can I kill httpd? 3. Imap4 with SSL In /bin/service.auth/tcp993, it execute "tlssrv". Where can I find it? -- Moroo Jun --upas-euqhsheqcuyrkheaeyxfgjvlcq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 01:14:21 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 01:14:21 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11185 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 01:14:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11181 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 01:14:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 01:14:20 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B82419A1C; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:14:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D14519A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA11068 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:47:18 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Message-ID: <20011213174717.P10154@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20011213143513.B76CB199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20011213143513.B76CB199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from presotto@closedmind.org on Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 09:35:12AM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:47:17 +0200 On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 09:35:12AM -0500, presotto@closedmind.org wrote: > > Is there a pascal compiler written in pascal? I typed the P4 code in on a glass terminal in 1974 or thereabouts. It was the quickest way to capture it. Didn't include the P-code interpreter. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 02:35:30 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 02:35:30 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11820 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 02:35:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11816 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 02:35:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 02:35:30 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9584F19A25; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:35:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA57119A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16EZfJ-0007jK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:29:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: D De Villiers <~ddevilliers99@lando.co.za> Message-ID: <9vane1$g9s$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Organization: The South African Internet Exchange References: <9usvhq$kcq$8@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, <3C15310A.FD5D7988@null.net>, <87adwp32ua.fsf@becket.becket.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- The Future ! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:26:24 GMT Hello... According to my opinion - The success, future etc etc. of any operating system (Plan9 in this case) depends on its ability to be programmed by all possible programmers (in more languages has possible etc) No Software !! - No Users etc !!! :-} Regards, Lennie De Villiers --- Remove ~ and 9s from e-mail address to reply --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 02:37:34 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 02:37:34 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11846 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 02:37:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11842 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 02:37:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 02:37:34 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97B5D19A26; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:37:18 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from quanstro.net (ninilchik.quanstro.net [66.92.161.167]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 425EB19A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:36:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by quanstro.net (Postfix, from userid 210) id 5E5683FE56; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:38:43 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: erik quanstrom Message-Id: <20011213173843.5E5683FE56@quanstro.net> Subject: [9fans] pascal, TeX Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:38:43 -0500 (EST) i think knuth is the counterexample that proves the point. knuth lives on his own planet. i believe it's called "the art of computer programming." ;-) also, due TeX's pascal heratage, it has an ungodly number of compiled-in limits. i haven't looked carefully for a long time, but it seems that the maintainers have just made the limits really big or changed the code in some way. in the day (working on 780s) it was always fun to recompile TeX to finish a document (because you'd blown some limit you'd never heard of before). not to start a flameware (troff esentially has the same problem), but TeX is a great education in Why To Hate Macro Processors. sendmail does better, but at least with TeX you can get something useful done at the same time. erik Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote: >> "Douglas A. Gwyn" writes: >> > D De Villiers wrote: >> > > No Pascal implementation ? Pascal compiler etc etc ? >> > Why? What use would it be? >> It would let you run Pascal programs. > And what use would *that* be? > Seriously, are there any major apps written in Pascal? TEX was. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 02:52:28 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 02:52:28 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11960 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 02:52:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11956 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 02:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 02:52:27 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E87D819A2C; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:52:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1681519A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:51:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from HWTPC ([135.104.53.98]) by plan9; Thu Dec 13 12:51:14 EST 2001 From: "Howard Trickey" To: "erik quanstrom" , <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] pascal, TeX Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: <20011213173843.5E5683FE56@quanstro.net> Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:51:37 -0500 Knuth didn't trust Pascal memory management for some reason, so he avoided using records and "new". He did most data structures in huge arrays of integers with punny macros to fake up data structures inside them. It was Pascal with Fortran for data structuring... > knuth lives on his own planet. i believe it's called > "the art of computer programming." ;-) > also, due TeX's pascal heratage, it has an ungodly number > of compiled-in limits. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 02:52:48 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 02:52:48 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 11968 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 02:52:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11964 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 02:52:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 02:52:47 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A26A819A31; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:52:17 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD0DF19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:51:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net (hadrian.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.1]) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12377 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:51:39 +1000 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27964 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:51:36 +1000 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 Programming languages ! -- The Future ! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:26:24 +0000." <9vane1$g9s$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> Message-ID: <27962.1008265896@apnic.net> From: George Michaelson Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:51:36 +1000 > According to my opinion - The success, future etc etc. of any operating > system (Plan9 in this case) depends on its ability to be programmed by all > possible programmers (in more languages has possible etc) No Software !! - > No Users etc !!! :-} success is very subjective. the Apollo-11 OS was a fantastic success given the engineering constraints but the UI was maybe a bit tortuous. language plethora is a good thing in research space and usually a bad thing in deployment. my experience is that it massively increases the opportunity for bad behaviour. GC/VM models, IPC, program-system boundarie turn out not to be completely abstract but reflect the language of implementation (is that unfair?) My brother is a lamda calculus expert. I would find it very hard to survive in his domain, but I also suspect good programmers would achieve very very good things if that was the 'one true way' The Pascal discussion reminded me of my first feelings on the apparent convergeance of the algol-60 and fortran i/o binding mechanisms. How wierd! two languages so different yet one apparent method to say how to connect to a punch or a reader. Then to get Pascal, and have to come to terms with its bindings.. I suspect any language with i/o or IPC a first-class concept in the language and not buried under methods or procedure call interfaces would blow my lobes. rendesvous between asynchronous real-world events, or the emulation of parallelism in a serial instruction machine and how that exposes to the apparently discrete programs is a wonderful opportunity for language designers to play the deity and show their view of 'how it is done wrong' I hope P9 remains a small-set-of-ported-languages space. I think it will be better for it. One from the lisp family, one from the interpreter space, one from the C gang, one for old timers. one shell/rc to bind them. one namespace scheme to find them. cheers -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 02:58:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 02:58:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12045 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 02:58:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12041 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 02:58:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 02:58:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8998719A28; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:58:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B21B719A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net (hadrian.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.1]) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12443 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:57:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28024 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:56:58 +1000 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:38:43 -0500." <20011213173843.5E5683FE56@quanstro.net> Message-ID: <28022.1008266218@apnic.net> From: George Michaelson Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:56:58 +1000 > not to start a flameware (troff esentially has the same > problem), but TeX is a great education in Why To Hate > Macro Processors. sendmail does better, but at least with > TeX you can get something useful done at the same time. > > erik I think a macro processor remains a fundamentally good thing. Else how could Bourne have programmed his shell in Pascal? The problem is divergeant Macro processors. better to have one and make it work well. Isn't that what hit troff/eqn/tbl in the end? I think the real problem for that family was the non-obvious cross relationships of the *orderings* of calling the submembers. if you want to nest equations in a table thats different to nesting tables in a document with equations sometimes. Certainly trying to use eqn to get giant curley brace marks into tabled telephone lists beat me. (I was emulating a manually typeset phone list. you cannot recreate a craft like that with machines, Knuth not withstanding. I tried both TeX and Troff and troff won the day, but it was never quite as nice as the original.) cheers -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 03:03:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 03:03:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12077 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 03:03:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12073 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 03:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 03:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95F9519A34; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:03:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E2B519A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:02:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from weyl.math.psu.edu (weyl.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.226]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09852 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:02:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (viro@localhost) by weyl.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20617 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:02:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: weyl.math.psu.edu: viro owned process doing -bs From: Alexander Viro To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX In-Reply-To: <28022.1008266218@apnic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:02:24 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, George Michaelson wrote: > > > not to start a flameware (troff esentially has the same > > problem), but TeX is a great education in Why To Hate > > Macro Processors. sendmail does better, but at least with > > TeX you can get something useful done at the same time. > > > > erik > > I think a macro processor remains a fundamentally good thing. Else > how could Bourne have programmed his shell in Pascal? ITYM Algol-68. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 03:10:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 03:10:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12120 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 03:10:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12116 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 03:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 03:10:22 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E03F519A25; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:10:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98817199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:09:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net (hadrian.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.1]) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12728 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:09:50 +1000 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28393 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:09:47 +1000 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:02:24 -0500." Message-ID: <28391.1008266987@apnic.net> From: George Michaelson Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:09:47 +1000 > > I think a macro processor remains a fundamentally good thing. Else > > how could Bourne have programmed his shell in Pascal? > > ITYM Algol-68. > correctamundo. my call by reference to the name failed to get the right value. God, I never came to terms with that language. anything beyond a 3 line hello world was beyond me. Still, that two lines more than the APL I wrote. cheers -George -- George Michaelson | APNIC Email: ggm@apnic.net | PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064 Phone: +61 7 3367 0490 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3367 0482 | http://www.apnic.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 03:12:25 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 03:12:25 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12151 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 03:12:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12147 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 03:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 03:12:25 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFDCF19A35; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:12:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9313119A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:11:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from strakt.com (boyd@whytee.strakt.com [62.13.29.48]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id fBDIBGBv008181 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:11:16 +0100 Message-ID: <3C18EF44.38244A15@strakt.com> From: Boyd Roberts Organization: AB Strakt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX References: <28022.1008266218@apnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:11:16 +0100 George Michaelson wrote: > I think a macro processor remains a fundamentally good thing. Else > how could Bourne have programmed his shell in Pascal? Bourne programmed his shell in SHELLGOL; one of the true ghastly abuses of the preprocessor: IF foo == bar THEN baz(); ELSE boom(); FI And the only way to modify the Bourne shell was to stick with the SHELLGOL, because at least it would maintain a consistant style. I think laTeX is the definitive answer to why TeX is a poor piece of software. Write TeX or laTeX is like writing PostSript and I don't want to write any of them. troff, for all it's faults, I prefer. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 03:19:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 03:19:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12188 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 03:19:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12184 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 03:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 03:19:24 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44264199BB; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:19:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from guardian.apnic.net (guardian.apnic.net [203.37.255.100]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B1EC199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from hadrian.staff.apnic.net (hadrian.staff.apnic.net [192.168.1.1]) by guardian.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12851 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:18:19 +1000 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hadrian.staff.apnic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28535 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:18:16 +1000 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:11:16 +0100." <3C18EF44.38244A15@strakt.com> Message-ID: <28533.1008267496@apnic.net> From: George Michaelson Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:18:16 +1000 > And the only way to modify the Bourne shell was to stick with the > SHELLGOL, because at least it would maintain a consistant style. Well, thats the *good* way. there are many bad ways. I wonder what freudian slip made me forget it was an ALGOLoid? Must be memories of failing to chose that language course at Uni. Co-incidentally York University had a truly wonderful sculpture collection, and one piece outside goodricke college is aptly named 'algol' -It seemed to fit given the Wirth focussed department of that time. (its a two-part sculpture, algol being a binary star, but it fitted for -60 vs -68) > > I think laTeX is the definitive answer to why TeX is a poor > piece of software. > > Write TeX or laTeX is like writing PostSript and I don't want > to write any of them. troff, for all it's faults, I prefer. > Me too, but as programme chair for AUUG I found I had no choice but to hack the back-end postscript of the {troff,ms,pdf,tex} sometimes to get eg page numbering to work. Might have been quicker to pay a wage slave to re-copy all on a xerox with tip-ex over the numbers and a golfball selectric to number them again. -George -- George Michaelson | APNIC Email: ggm@apnic.net | PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064 Phone: +61 7 3367 0490 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3367 0482 | http://www.apnic.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 03:22:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 03:22:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12229 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 03:22:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12225 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 03:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 03:22:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE28819A37; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:22:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 817FC19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:21:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from weyl.math.psu.edu (weyl.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.226]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12946 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:21:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (viro@localhost) by weyl.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20656 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:21:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: weyl.math.psu.edu: viro owned process doing -bs From: Alexander Viro To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX In-Reply-To: <3C18EF44.38244A15@strakt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:21:15 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote: > Bourne programmed his shell in SHELLGOL; one of the true ghastly > abuses of the preprocessor: > > IF foo == bar > THEN > baz(); > ELSE > boom(); > FI That's perfectly valid A-68, BTW. And yes, degree of cpp(1) abuse is horrible. OTOH, I'm regulary seeing worse ;-/ > And the only way to modify the Bourne shell was to stick with the > SHELLGOL, because at least it would maintain a consistant style. > > I think laTeX is the definitive answer to why TeX is a poor > piece of software. Now, that's hardly fair - you are blaming TeX for ugliness of SCRIBE lookalike written atop of it. AMSTeX is actually quite nice - for mathematics-related text it wins hands down. For anything CS-related I'd pick troff, but... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 03:56:23 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 03:56:23 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12447 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 03:56:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12443 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 03:56:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 03:56:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CBE119A28; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:56:07 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5A06199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21577 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:55:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from princeton.edu (albion.Princeton.EDU [128.112.234.82]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28248 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:55:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C18F998.1C72F633@princeton.edu> From: Martin Harriss Organization: Princeton University CIT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX References: <28022.1008266218@apnic.net> <3C18EF44.38244A15@strakt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Help: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:55:20 -0500 Boyd Roberts wrote: > > Bourne programmed his shell in SHELLGOL; one of the true ghastly > abuses of the preprocessor: I had heard that it was called BOURNEGOL :) Martin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Dec 14 04:03:24 JST 2001 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Dec 14 04:03:24 JST 2001 Received: (qmail 12508 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Dec 2001 04:03:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12504 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2001 04:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (postfix@130.203.4.6) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Dec 2001 04:03:23 +0900 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B9CB19A35; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:03:08 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (host80-0-45-17.no-dns-yet.ntli.net [80.0.45.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3117F199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:02:51 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pascal, TeX From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-