From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 01:52:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:52:49 0900 Subject: [9fans] colormap Message-ID: <20010301015323.2588B199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> We have many 8bit depth greyscaled images, and want to display them on 8bit and truecolor (>=16bit) display. We made a Plan 9 pic formatted file, begin with m8, and k8 :-). The latter works fine on a truecolor display, but only 16 grey shades on 8bit display(pseudocolor). This doen't change when we changed the colormap to say /lib/cmap/c7291.56. The former (m8), instead, works fine on the 8bit dosplay with colormap of that c7291.56, but shows colors ^_^ on a true color display. Where we should check? Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 02:23:54 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (George Michaelson) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 12:23:54 +1000 Subject: [9fans] povray on p9 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:36:39 PST." <10102270936.ZM226496@marvin> Message-ID: <4871.983413434@dstc.edu.au> I try to keep quiet when povray is mentioned, but someone invoked my name. Not me. Arthur Ransome says of sailors: "Better drowned than duffers if not duffers wont drown" But I don't think that applies here. Anyway, George Michaelson said: > don't go past radiance without a look. > its not povray but its very good. This, as bwk used to say, is vacuous. At least my content is consistently awful. I aim for a shorter encoding in killfiles. Povray is an abomination -- the perfect rejoinder to The Cathedral And The Bazaar. Radiance is a work of art. Neither can handle scenes of any complexity, and neither is fast enough for serious animation. (Before I don't think radiance *seeks* to be a viable animation engine. And that it both renders works of art, and is one, seems a nice convergeance of desire and reality. -George -- George Michaelson | DSTC Pty Ltd Email: ggm@dstc.edu.au | University of Qld 4072 Phone: +61 7 3365 4310 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3365 4311 | http://www.dstc.edu.au From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 08:15:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:15:21 0900 Subject: [9fans] colormap Message-ID: <20010301081558.4883C199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jyadiuxlyofvjnjqryehwyuicy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have been expanding this experiment, and found that we are following previous rob's post on cmap2rgb() etc. Ok!, I got the problem right, I think. The general solution, however, may not be so easy... Then, we'll try to solve the problem under some local assumptions. Kenji --upas-jyadiuxlyofvjnjqryehwyuicy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp; Thu Mar 1 10:39:30 JST 2001 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14014; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:54:42 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-01020211) with ESMTP id KAA20219; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:54:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A60419A00; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:54:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2588B199EF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:53:23 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] colormap From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010301015323.2588B199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:52:49 0900 We have many 8bit depth greyscaled images, and want to display them on 8bit and truecolor (>=16bit) display. We made a Plan 9 pic formatted file, begin with m8, and k8 :-). The latter works fine on a truecolor display, but only 16 grey shades on 8bit display(pseudocolor). This doen't change when we changed the colormap to say /lib/cmap/c7291.56. The former (m8), instead, works fine on the 8bit dosplay with colormap of that c7291.56, but shows colors ^_^ on a true color display. Where we should check? Kenji --upas-jyadiuxlyofvjnjqryehwyuicy-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 08:41:44 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 03:41:44 -0500 Subject: [9fans] colormap Message-ID: <20010301084154.068EA199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> I don't think the rgb2cmap problem that Rob mentioned is related to your color map problems. > We made a Plan 9 pic formatted file, begin with m8, and k8 :-). > The latter works fine on a truecolor display, but only 16 grey shades on > 8bit display(pseudocolor). This doen't change when we changed the > colormap to say /lib/cmap/c7291.56. > > The former (m8), instead, works fine on the 8bit dosplay with colormap of > that c7291.56, but shows colors ^_^ on a true color display. Where we > should check? This admittedly bizarre behavior is exactly what I'd expect. The hardware color map is not intended to be changed from the default rgbv map. In particular: - the draw operator converts between m8 and other formats using rgbv, regardless of the hardware color map contents. - the draw operator assumes that an m8 image can be written as is to an m8 frame buffer. Your k8 image works fine on a true-color display because you've got 256 greys available to you. It doesn't look as good on the 8-bit display because it gets projected onto the color map, so you only get 16 greys. Your m8 image shows colors on the true-color display because you've lied about the channel format, saying it's color. On your 8-bit display, you've broken an implicit promise to the kernel that the hardware color map will be rgbv. The lie and the broken promise happen to cancel each other out, so that you see a full 256 greyscale image. The kernel thinks your image is some weird color image (in fact, the one you see on the true-color displays), but it dutifully copies the bits to the frame buffer, and the result is the greyscale you wanted. The short answer is that you can't get 256 greys on an 8-bit display without resorting to the hack you've discovered, which has the disadvantage of not working on true-color displays. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 09:35:41 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:35:41 0900 Subject: [9fans] colormap Message-ID: <20010301093616.0850E199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> >Your m8 image shows colors on the true-color display because >you've lied about the channel format, saying it's color. Yes, we lied the Plan 9 kernel. However, isn't it posssible to use another colormap to change colormap to rgb by cmap2rgb(), which assumes only rgbv colormap? Without this lie, we have no chance to see 256 greyscale images on 8 bit display... I found some codes in /sys/src/libdraw/rgb.c assuming only 16 shades of greyscale, which made us disappointed. Our local "lie and broken promise" method is as follows: ^_^ To check what display depth we are in, and (1) if we are on 8 bit display, make m8 'greyscale' data, and change colormap to one having 256 grey shades, such as /lib/cmap/c7291.56. (2) if we are on truecolor display, make k8 'greyscale' data. We tried (r8g8b8) with same three bytes data, but it's just waste of memory. :-) Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 09:44:50 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Michael Collins) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:44:50 GMT Subject: [9fans] p3 dual Message-ID: <3A9DB12E.90305@austin.rr.com> No joy installing on a dual p3. Just stops after getting an enter at the proper prompt. darn. -- Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com Admiral Penguinista Navy International This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org Ask me about Plan 9 http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 09:44:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:44:32 GMT Subject: [9fans] ET4000 problems Message-ID: <97k5tt$2072$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> I'm trying to get Plan 9 running on a P133 box I threw together with an Tseng ET4000 card. After modifying the vgadb file on the boot disk, I got the install to run fine, video and everything. As soon as the computer restarts after installing, aux/vga stops working, even after I copy my new vgadb from the floppy over to /lib/vgadb. The error message is: "aux/vga: vgactlw: : bad arg in system call" Any ideas? Thanks for your help. Josh From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 11:22:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:22:46 0000 Subject: [9fans] ET4000 problems Message-ID: <20010301111554.AA490199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tfiudzubwgltbymchgpycyumui Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit vgaet4000 +cur is in pcflop but none of the other pc kernel configuration files. --upas-tfiudzubwgltbymchgpycyumui Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 983440351:10:19399:7; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:52:31 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1126946; 1 Mar 2001 9:51 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F66D19A08; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:51:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFF78199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14YPes-0006sB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:46:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Message-ID: <97k5tt$2072$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Organization: Michigan State University Subject: [9fans] ET4000 problems Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:44:32 GMT I'm trying to get Plan 9 running on a P133 box I threw together with an Tseng ET4000 card. After modifying the vgadb file on the boot disk, I got the install to run fine, video and everything. As soon as the computer restarts after installing, aux/vga stops working, even after I copy my new vgadb from the floppy over to /lib/vgadb. The error message is: "aux/vga: vgactlw: : bad arg in system call" Any ideas? Thanks for your help. Josh --upas-tfiudzubwgltbymchgpycyumui-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 13:42:25 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:42:25 -0500 Subject: [9fans] p3 dual Message-ID: <20010301134227.B35D9199F9@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Thu Mar 1 04:51:19 EST 2001, mhtexcollins@austin.rr.com wrote: > No joy installing on a dual p3. Just stops after getting an enter at > the proper prompt. > > darn. Does the hardware work in uniprocessor mode, i.e. put *nomp=1 in plan9.ini? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 1 14:53:18 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ish Rattan) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:53:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] p3 dual In-Reply-To: <3A9DB12E.90305@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: Works here on Tyan S1834 Tiger/133 MB and Dual PIIIs - ishwar On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Michael Collins wrote: > No joy installing on a dual p3. Just stops after getting an enter at > the proper prompt. > > darn. > > -- > Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com > Admiral Penguinista Navy International > This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org > Ask me about Plan 9 http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/ > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 02:48:25 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (YAMANASHI Takeshi) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:48:25 +0900 Subject: [9fans] install libtcs Message-ID: <15861.983501305@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> I downloaded libtcs.tgz from http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/s47.html and got tcslib.diff which starts with the line: diff -f /sys/src/cmd/tcs/conv.h /sys/src/libtcs/conv.h And now, how can I reproduce libtcs/conv.h from tcs/conv.h? What command to execute? It seems that Plan 9 doesn't have `patch'... -- Namaarie From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 04:10:20 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:10:20 0900 Subject: [9fans] install libtcs Message-ID: <20010302041054.71949199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> >What command to execute? It seems that Plan 9 doesn't have `patch'... According to Russ, it'll take 9 min to port patch into Plan 9. :-) Anyway, I've not tested 'patch', because I thought it's obvious from the header lines of the file... If patch doesn't work, you can do it by hand. ^_^ Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 05:13:17 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (YAMANASHI Takeshi) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:13:17 +0900 Subject: [9fans] install libtcs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Mar 0900 13:10:20." <20010302041054.71949199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <16342.983509997@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp> > Anyway, I've not tested 'patch', because I thought it's obvious from the > header lines of the file... All `patch'es at hand (GNU, SunOS, NetBSD ones) doesn't recognise tcslib.diff as a patch file. Is there a way to process `diff -r' output as a patch file on Plan 9 or unix? I tried something like; % patch -p < tcslib.diff in vain. > If patch doesn't work, you can do it by hand. ^_^ Yeah, I though of that first too. But I'm a lazy slug and don't like the idea that I type codes which have been already typed. -- Namaarie From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 05:19:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:19:49 0900 Subject: [9fans] panning or scrolling, page(1) Message-ID: <20010302052023.72B6C199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> I've been hesitated to post this here... I decided now to post here, because someone else may have differnt opinion on this issue. Page(1) applies panning to see a part of images, but not scrolling. I've been thought this is because page(1) was originally designed to read documents formatted in postscript or pds, and expanded to many kinds of images. In our work, we are mainly using page to see satellite images of Mars etc.. In this case, we can never predict what part of the whole image we are now seeing from the image itself. For such circumstance, scrolling image horizontally or vertically is more profittable user interface. We have now page2 program locally for this purpose, which is coded mainly by Yoshitatsu. (We can now view, on Plan 9, most of NASA's satellite images, such as Viking, Voyager, Magellan, Clementine, Mars Pathfinder and Mars Global Surveyor. ^_^). However, when we read documents by page, panning method is fancier to me, too. How about your opinion? Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 17:45:02 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:45:02 PST Subject: [9fans] C compiler and junk mail Message-ID: <20010302180308.C1229199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> 1) I sent a mild complaint earlier about how the 2nd edition C compiler fails to remove // type comments from #define statements. This caused me some grief when importing code into plan 9. Is this an over sight in the implementation or leaving these comments in place part of the language specifications? 2) Occasionally I get junk mail from 9fans, e.g. From 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Wed Feb 14 02:20:17 2001 Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by aspen.cs.unr.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA18146 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0E04199D5; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:20:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from g04.syd.iprimus.net.au (g04.syd.iprimus.net.au [203.134.65.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 68AC8199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:19:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16404 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 10:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kdhbooks.com) (203.134.133.16) by g04.syd.iprimus.net.au with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 10:20:14 -0000 From: "e-Publisher's Weekly" ... I thought this was a moderated list. Am I wrong? ed wishart From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 18:28:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 13:28:46 -0500 Subject: [9fans] C compiler and junk mail In-Reply-To: Message from ed@washoe.cs.unr.edu of "Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:45:02 PST." <20010302180308.C1229199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010302182846.7533.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> > I thought this was a moderated list. Am I wrong? The usenet->mail direction is moderated, but the other direction isn't. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 19:55:34 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:55:34 -0500 Subject: [9fans] C compiler and junk mail Message-ID: <20010302195541.A97DD199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> 1) I sent a mild complaint earlier about how the 2nd edition C compiler fails to remove // type comments from #define statements. This caused me some grief when importing code into plan 9. Is this an over sight in the implementation or leaving these comments in place part of the language specifications? Well, first, those are not ANSI C comments. They may be in C99. But they were added to the Plan 9 compilers because some people prefer them. The real problem here is that the Plan 9 compiler remove comments at a slightly different point in the processing than the ANSI standard suggests, so comments on #include and #define lines can cause trouble. If you really care, use 8c -p to invoke a strict ANSI preprocessor. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 2 20:41:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:41:07 -0500 Subject: [9fans] C compiler and junk mail Message-ID: <20010302204118.94957199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> > If you really care, use 8c -p to invoke a strict ANSI preprocessor. But this won't deal with // either, except with the -+ option (which -p doesn't generate). You need to run cpp in a pipeline. Dennis From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 3 02:34:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:34:01 -0500 Subject: [9fans] plan9 program to balance your checking account Message-ID: <20010303023419.502B2199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> I got sick of trying to balance my checking account on paper and by hand. It's much easier to rearrange and fix incorrect transactions in your favorite text editor such as acme(1) or sam(1). So, I threw together a simple program to help me out. You can find it at: http://www.csh-east.org/~tad/plan9/ -Tad P.S. It's not very efficient, but then again, I average about one transaction per day, so it doesn't have to be. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 3 02:49:26 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:49:26 -0500 Subject: [9fans] panning or scrolling, page(1) Message-ID: <20010303024929.04C5E199DC@mail.cse.psu.edu> I strongly prefer the panning model to the scrolling model. It's so much easier to use I wish it were available everywhere. Are you really asking for some indication of what part of the image is visible? Scroll bars provide that at the cost of a crappy interface, but there's no reason at all why a panning interface can't give you some indication of what subset of the entire object you're viewing. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 3 03:58:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Fariborz 'Skip' Tavakkolian) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:58:11 -0800 Subject: [9fans] panning or scrolling, page(1) In-Reply-To: <20010303024929.04C5E199DC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010302195811.0148ebd0@mail.real.com> Like the mouse cursor when the panning button is pressed? It would be where the user is looking. >some indication of what part of the image is visible? Scroll bars provide >that at the cost of a crappy interface, but there's no reason at all why a >panning interface can't give you some indication of what subset of the >entire object you're viewing. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 3 07:06:59 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 02:06:59 -0500 Subject: [9fans] plan9 program to balance your checking account Message-ID: <20010303070707.352BF19A07@mail.cse.psu.edu> The C program admittedly does more than this, but I've been quite happy with: g% cat balance.awk /^#/ { next; } NF>=3 && $1 == "+" { total += $3; next; } NF>=3 && $1 == "-" { total -= $3; next; } NF>=3 && $1 ~ /^[0-9]+$/ { total -= $3; next; } NF>=3 && $1 == "=" { n = total - $3; if(n < -0.005 || 0.005 < n) printf("%s:%d: computed total %.2f expected %.2f\n", FILENAME, NR, total, $3); next; } { printf("%s:%d: syntax error: %s\n", FILENAME, NR, $0); } END{ print total } g% The input file is a sequence of lines of the form +|-|=|checknumber mm/dd/yyyy amount comment Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 3 11:02:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:02:38 0000 Subject: [9fans] plan9 program to balance your checking account Message-ID: <20010303110428.43ABE199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> i tried tad's program and i was disappointed. it didn't balance my account at all. i'm still in the red. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 3 22:13:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 17:13:05 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Apollo's Message-ID: <20010303161714.772E8199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sometime in the near future I hope to be picking up a couple Apollo's: A DN3000 and a DN10000. At this time I don't have any high performance expectations: I know they are old. I will be happy initially if they boot up and operate under the original Domain OS. Eventually, I would like to set up a network with them and my pentium. It would be really nice if I could get the Apollo's to work somehow under Plan9. In reading the documentation for the latest release I don't think they are supported. If I am not able to have the Apollo's operate under Plan9 will I be able to tunnel/SSH to the Apollo's from my pentium that is running Plan9? If so, what will SSH enable me to do? I am new to Apollo's and networking, so all advice and suggestions are welcome. Below are some details about the Apollo's. -Bill DN3000 CPU: 68020, 12 MHz FPU: 68881 MMU: DMMU Bus: AT-bus SAU: SAU8 Display: Mono, 4 or 8 plane 1024x800, mono 1280x1024 HDD: ESDI up to 380M Memory: 4 slots, up to 2M in each slot Network: ATR (dual slot) or 3C505 Ethernet or IBM TokenRing 802.5 Other: ? DN10000 CPU: Up to 4 PRISM 18.18 MHz RISC CPUs FPU: BIT (Bipolar Integrated Technologies) MMU: Toshiba (CMOS) Bus: X-bus, VME-bus, AT-bus SAU: SAU10 Display: 8-plane AT-bus 1024x800, 40-plane X-Bus DVS 1280x1024 (single slot) or 80-plane X-Bus DVS 1280x1024 (dual slot) HDD: Up to 4 VME controllers, up to 2 ESDI drives (up to 1.5G per drive) on each controller, but only space for 4 internal drives. Also possible SCSI drives on WD7000-ASC at SR10.4 Memory: Up to 3 memory boards, up to 4 modules on each board, modules up to 64M each Network: VME Ethernet, VME Apollo Token Ring, AT IBM Token Ring Other: 80286 on ETH802.3_VME and 68020, 12 MHz on X-bus Utility board From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 00:44:36 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 19:44:36 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Click Here for a Brand New F R E E Pager 14284 Message-ID: <0000603350ef$0000006a$000037cc@> Brand New Pager for F R E E! No long term contract No big prepayment of airtime No credit check Put F R E E pagers on your kids - Give one to your loved ones - For F R E E Here at Paging America we are excited to be offering you this exclusive, top of the line, full featured pager in your choice of color for F R E E . This side viewable display pager is one of the smallest and lightest pagers on the market today. 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Call 877-699-7409 to get in on this exciting offer today To get off this send email to sheetset@yahoo.com From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 4 19:15:23 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 19:15:23 0000 Subject: [9fans] panning or scrolling, page(1) Message-ID: <20010304180958.D4E68199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ijkbwvqqznqsomsmyxxyiueqyr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i like the panning model too, but i don't tend to view very large images. when you've got a large image (many times the size of the area you can see), panning can be a bit of a problem because you can only go a small distance at once. i.e. if i'm at the bottom left of a large image and i want to go to the top right, it might take me 10 or so "click & pan" mouse movements to get there. but for images that size, maybe a different interface is called for anyway. my last job was writing radio propagation prediction software, which involved the viewing of large maps (e.g. the entire of the UK with one height sample every 100m). i once accidentally created quite a nice viewing interface when i set the map to be always centred around the transmitter. normally, you could drag transmitters around with the mouse, and i hadn't yet disabled this, so when i dragged the transmitter, it moved, but the map kept up, giving the nice sensation of flying over the landscape. (as long as i kept wiggling the mouse...) maybe that kind of interface might sit better with the panning that page uses (e.g. middle button "marks the spot", and map keeps panning at a speed proportional to the vector from the spot to the current mouse position). i always find it a little disconcerting that the middle button quits page so abruptly anyway. cheers, rog. --upas-ijkbwvqqznqsomsmyxxyiueqyr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for rog@vitanuova.com id 983587834:10:13126:3; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:50:34 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1012954; 3 Mar 2001 2:50 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66DA819A0B; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:50:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 04C5E199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:49:29 -0500 (EST) To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Subject: Re: [9fans] panning or scrolling, page(1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010303024929.04C5E199DC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:49:26 -0500 I strongly prefer the panning model to the scrolling model. It's so much easier to use I wish it were available everywhere. Are you really asking for some indication of what part of the image is visible? Scroll bars provide that at the cost of a crappy interface, but there's no reason at all why a panning interface can't give you some indication of what subset of the entire object you're viewing. -rob --upas-ijkbwvqqznqsomsmyxxyiueqyr-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 01:10:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:10:11 0900 Subject: [9fans] panning or scrolling, page(1) Message-ID: <20010305011044.485B6199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> >I strongly prefer the panning model to the scrolling model. Yes, I had thought you'd done it already, which made me hesitate to open this discussion. ^_^ > Are you really asking for >some indication of what part of the image is visible? yes, I do, for images we are dealing with. Let's think of a Mars Global Surveyor image, which usually has a very vertically long rectangular size, say such that 1024x5632. In such case, we can never see it in a window, but only in some part a once. If we use panning model without any indication of position information (page91), it's not easy to image what part we are now seeing, which leads us some difficulty to get that whole image in our mind. Viewing a part always with getting its whole image is very important to us to find something from that image. Therefore, we added vertical/horizontal scrollbars here, which enables us to get the idea 1)what size of the whole image, 2) what position we are now seeing. >that at the cost of a crappy interface, but there's no reason at all why a >panning interface can't give you some indication of what subset of the We've also considered the possiblity, with panning interface, to have some small woindow which shows us the whole image size and its position. However, I don't see any reason this is a better idea than scrollbars... In the case of documents, those have position information in themselves, and we don't need such in our user interface. This is the reason why I thought page(1) was originally designed for documents. Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 08:37:34 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 03:37:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] [RFC] sysremove()/sysmount() race Message-ID: Folks, AFAICS there is a window during mount() when you can remove() the mountpoint. There's no locking between namec() and cmount(), so as far as I can see there's nothing to stop sysremove() from happening in that window. Since nothing is mounted yet, we end up removing the mountpoint (after mount we would attempt to remove the root of mounted fs). I'm not saying that it's a bug, but... how well does userland deal with that? AFAICS kernel should be OK... Cheers, Al PS: ssh'd from a Linux box that runs 2.4.2+namespaces patch. 2 users, 5 different namespaces right now... ;-) Off to porting libfs... From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 08:41:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jean Mehat) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:41:11 +0100 (MET) Subject: [9fans] PPPoE, Adsl Message-ID: <200103050841.JAA23454@colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr> Anyone knows what is necessary to run PPPoE on Plan 9 (to connect to ADSL)? Anyone did it? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 08:54:09 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 03:54:09 -0500 Subject: [9fans] [RFC] sysremove()/sysmount() race Message-ID: <20010305085413.703C6199F1@mail.cse.psu.edu> I don't see what the problem is. Namec gets you a chan, either pre- or post-mount. If you get in before the remove, the mount succeeds but attempts to access the mount point fail. If you get in after the remove, the mount itself fails. More generally, I don't see how this is any different than some other user (on a different machine entirely) removing the mount point at the same time you do a mount. You get exactly the same behavior, which means the kernel is probably doing the right thing. Backing up even more, it's not really any different than doing chmod 0 on some directory -- processes with a working directory deeper than that will continue to access files, but you won't be able to evaluate any rooted names that go through that directory. In all cases, there's no way to prevent it from happening, and the behavior is entirely understandable. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 09:57:09 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (peter huang) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:57:09 GMT Subject: [9fans] off-wall idea, file server and SAN Message-ID: <97p1mo$bf4$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Hi, as I struggle to find the correct hardware to install a file server, I was wondering whether any has consider implement the file server using the SAN (storage area network) technology. It seems to be a good fit and the component is more readily available than the current file server hardware requirements. Another one is allow foreign box/file system to be used such as NTFS (!heavan forbid, but it is a unicode file system) or extended Linus ext2 (ext2 with utf support). I know u9fs exist but it didn't seems to support all the functionality needed by a plan9 file system. I'm interested in any ideas on the feasibility on the subject. thanks peter huang From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 09:57:36 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Michael Collins) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:57:36 GMT Subject: [9fans] p3 dual References: <20010301134227.B35D9199F9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AA059E3.4090407@austin.rr.com> sorry, It is boxed and ready to ship out as a Linux server. I will test the next one I get though. Thanks. jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > On Thu Mar 1 04:51:19 EST 2001, mhtexcollins@austin.rr.com wrote: > >> No joy installing on a dual p3. Just stops after getting an enter at >> the proper prompt. >> >> darn. > > > Does the hardware work in uniprocessor mode, i.e. put > *nomp=1 > in plan9.ini? -- Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com Admiral Penguinista Navy International This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org Speech Enabled Chat http://phphreaks.net/bxspeak/ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 10:43:17 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 05:43:17 -0500 Subject: [9fans] off-wall idea, file server and SAN Message-ID: <20010305104324.DDAF719A02@mail.cse.psu.edu> what's the hardware you can't locate? it's never been a problem to obtain the buslogic bt-948 or 958 (now called the mylex multimaster series). scsi disks are readily available. if you have the money, hp scsi mmc optical jukeboxes (now in 9gb disk size!) are easily found. any old vga card will do, since the file server kernel just runs in cga mode. the intel 8255[789] ethernet cards (ether express pro/100+ or something like that) can be found on any street corner or intel's web site. or is the problem cost? there are cheaper ncr/symbios/whatever-they're- called-this-week scsi controllers; it looks like the current driver supports virtually all of them. the 3com etherlink iii cards work, but i think they're usually more expensive than the intel ee cards. there's support for the dec/intel 2114x (`tulip') cards, but i haven't tried them myself. it's really not hard to assemble a file server and it's well worth it. u9fs and kfs don't really show off the system; kfs at least is quite a bit slower (order of magnitude for some large copies i did recently). talking to a foreign file server running ext2 or ntfs via nfs or smb prevents use of some of the more interesting file modes (exclusive-access or append-only) and ought to be slower. as for ntfs being a unicode file system, note that it's unicode, not utf; they seem to have dropped the ball on that. from what little investigation i did, it also appears to be just a checklist item; i don't think many nt applications use unicode file names, so the relevant code probably hasn't been exercised much. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 10:46:17 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:46:17 -0000 Subject: [9fans] off-wall idea, file server and SAN In-Reply-To: <20010305104324.DDAF719A02@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AA36E79.21978.C197A1@localhost> > as for ntfs being a unicode file system, note that it's unicode, > not utf; they seem to have dropped the ball on that. from what > little investigation i did, it also appears to be just a checklist > item; i don't think many nt applications use unicode file names, > so the relevant code probably hasn't been exercised much. Furthermore, it's "case preserving but case ignoring", which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot, especially in the Unicode context. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 09:58:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Michael Collins) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:58:01 GMT Subject: [9fans] p3 dual References: <3A9DB12E.90305@austin.rr.com>, Message-ID: <3AA0598A.8030206@austin.rr.com> darn. This is a dell poweredge server. It now has Linux on it and will be colocated tomorrow. I wish I had more time to fool with it and P9 some more. Next time. Your post gives me hope for the next time I get my hands on one. Ish Rattan wrote: > Works here on Tyan S1834 Tiger/133 MB and Dual PIIIs > > - ishwar > > > On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Michael Collins wrote: > > >> No joy installing on a dual p3. Just stops after getting an enter at >> the proper prompt. >> >> darn. >> >> -- >> Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com >> Admiral Penguinista Navy International >> This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org >> Ask me about Plan 9 http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/ >> -- Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com Admiral Penguinista Navy International This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org Speech Enabled Chat http://phphreaks.net/bxspeak/ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 12:46:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 04:46:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [9fans] off-wall idea, file server and SAN In-Reply-To: <20010305104324.DDAF719A02@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 geoff@x.bell-labs.com wrote: > what's the hardware you can't locate? > it's never been a problem to obtain the > buslogic bt-948 or 958 (now called the > mylex multimaster series). scsi disks > are readily available. if you have the > money, hp scsi mmc optical jukeboxes (now > in 9gb disk size!) are easily found. > any old vga card will do, since the file > server kernel just runs in cga mode. > the intel 8255[789] ethernet cards (ether > express pro/100+ or something like that) > can be found on any street corner or > intel's web site. As proof that this is definitely possible, I have a fileserver that I recently built with modern components. The MB is a Tyan S1837 with onboard SCSI (symbios SYM53C896), fast ethernet (intel 82559), and usable onboard video. I bought an HP MO jukebox (200fx) from ebay for $1000 and built the server for ~$2500, which includes the pair of 72G SCSI drives. For $3500 I have an awesome setup. On the topic of SANs, I think it might be interesting to introduce support for this technology into plan9. Anyone else have thoughts on this? -- Christopher Nielsen cnielsen@pobox.com From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 14:08:19 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:08:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [9fans] Multiport Serial Cards Message-ID: Are there any supported intelligent multiport serial cards other than Star Gate Avanstar? I'd like to employ a spare 486 as a terminal server, and I'm not sure which card to buy. -- Christopher Nielsen cnielsen@pobox.com From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 6 02:22:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:22:05 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Acme mail "fmt" Message-ID: <20010305202603.C7BF219A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> I have been using Acme mail almost exclusively for all my email. One thing I haven't used is the "fmt" command in the taskbar of outbound mail... mainly because I don't know what it does. What does it do? -Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 20:33:50 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:33:50 0000 Subject: [9fans] Acme mail "fmt" Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lfrsmyoijxhpfyinjidofwxnhg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It helps you format very long lines like this one into a paragraph of more reasonable width. Just select the text and execute |fmt. e.g. IIt helps you format very long lines like this one into a paragraph of more reasonable width. Just select the text and execute |fmt. --upas-lfrsmyoijxhpfyinjidofwxnhg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Mon Mar 5 20:27:10 GMT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E31119A11; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhostnl (localhostnl.demon.nl [195.11.248.215]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C7BF219A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:26:03 -0500 (EST) From: William Staniewicz To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010305202603.C7BF219A0B@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Acme mail "fmt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:22:05 -0500 I have been using Acme mail almost exclusively for all my email. One thing I haven't used is the "fmt" command in the taskbar of outbound mail... mainly because I don't know what it does. What does it do? -Bill --upas-lfrsmyoijxhpfyinjidofwxnhg-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 21:55:39 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:55:39 0000 Subject: [9fans] Acme mail "fmt" Message-ID: <20010305205011.E624F19A11@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rubwxiwhatpfqrxawvqgjvobnv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just select the text and execute |fmt. i have to say that the standard plan 9 fmt annoys me somewhat as it doesn't preserve indentation properly. i tend to use a port of an old bsd version which works better (although it's probably gungier inside). i've attached it, as it's so small. cheers, rog. PS. warning: /bin/doc2text relies on the -j option to fmt, which isn't in this version. --upas-rubwxiwhatpfqrxawvqgjvobnv Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=fmt.c.gz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sICNb7ozoAA2ZtdC5jAL1aa2/bOBb9bP8K1oNtbMdOkxTYFk2TQdvp7hbbeaDpYhZoswAt 05amMilIVJ3sTPa377mXlERbcuLMLNYfEomPS/I+zn1Q38zVItFKfP/qn+/f/iCenj778/N+ /5tER2k5V+JleRRfBK9pMos2W2aJoYavJpkLK2dlKq0afihBcpyC8Oisn2grkiLL1cK3FycT 4Z9O0e8f5VdV2LwaYnM/M8d7qvTSxr6LOni1VMl5oof0XDV1b4C7zCIti3hjdCajL37k2uR1 c5Glie2gQCdIrjs6Fis7fJ2YWbkQ40VSk1HWlLZasP9k3BdjGiqmU7Ew+UpaYWMlIqMj7FhL mxiNXYpEZ6UViyRVhTC5KKzUc5nPXTvRMNqaphlroP1IiO9UkSy1mhNxURZKrBMbi+9lkor/ /IZ5NPXyRlt5/YK38UlM18kcQ67wqOVKiaOjI3FFw16VNjb5C/H3MrfiMjZKF2L4jzevR+Lk 9MmzJ8+eY9ATaInXnR9+vPz4QQgx9LwZieMRXsWTsfihTFPsNU/0UmQG8lQ57y8l0RIN+k+/ bHF9Jjp+oPGmzHOFYU7eSzFLpf4CvpWOREWBJKJNm0hAwbGWBoYTVzL/0rU2Jr6XhRVZKiNw U4lCroUUMbbRouE4eS6enW5SAo2fucvGkPeahAKGaGOFuo4UhEU8YK7hNybSJIni0xVo/fp+ 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21:55:25 0000 Subject: [9fans] Acme mail "fmt" Message-ID: <20010305204958.00DCC19A19@mail.cse.psu.edu> > Just select the text and execute |fmt. i have to say that the standard plan 9 fmt annoys me somewhat as it doesn't preserve indentation properly. i tend to use a port of an old bsd version which works better (although it's probably gungier inside). i've attached it, as it's so small. cheers, rog. PS. warning: /bin/doc2text relies on the -j option to fmt, which isn't in this version. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 5 23:17:56 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:17:56 -0500 Subject: [9fans] C compiler and junk mail Message-ID: <20010305231800.96E62199F5@mail.cse.psu.edu> If you add the following to /sys/src/cmd/cc/lex.c, it will pass -+ through to the invoked cpp: av[0] = CPP; i = 1; >>> if(debug['+']) { >>> sprint(opt, "-+"); >>> av[i++] = strdup(opt); >>> } for(c = 0; c < ndef; c++) { sprint(opt, "-D%s", defs[c]); av[i++] = strdup(opt); } Then you can use 8c -p+, etc. I added this back in January to solve exactly the problem you describe. It will make it out for real when we next do a release. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 6 09:23:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:23:21 0900 Subject: [9fans] plan9 program to balance your checking account Message-ID: <20010306092357.5F7A6199E1@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ffnucgvoyihrnqqszeeoobukef Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >i'm still in the red. You can use colormap to change red to blue. :-) Kenji --upas-ffnucgvoyihrnqqszeeoobukef Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp; Sat Mar 3 19:49:42 JST 2001 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15160; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:06:18 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-01020211) with ESMTP id UAA27212; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:06:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD77819A1A; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 06:05:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 43ABE199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 06:04:28 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 program to balance your checking account From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010303110428.43ABE199E4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:02:38 0000 i tried tad's program and i was disappointed. it didn't balance my account at all. i'm still in the red. --upas-ffnucgvoyihrnqqszeeoobukef-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 6 14:44:50 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:44:50 -0500 Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010306144451.B0362199FB@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nvyawhewppjvvdmuuoncabbbhg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI --upas-nvyawhewppjvvdmuuoncabbbhg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from bell-labs.com ([135.104.50.40]) by plan9; Mon Mar 5 10:08:45 EST 2001 Message-ID: <3AA3ACC8.2F691882@bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:12:08 -0500 From: Sean Quinlan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: presotto@bell-labs.com Subject: Re: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit people have been using linksys NAT boxes to do this. presotto wrote: > > I remember you talkin about this. Did anything ever come of it? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [9fans] PPPoE, Adsl > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:41:11 +0100 (MET) > From: Jean Mehat > Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > Anyone knows what is necessary to run PPPoE on Plan 9 (to connect to ADSL)? > Anyone did it? --upas-nvyawhewppjvvdmuuoncabbbhg-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 09:53:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:53:32 0900 Subject: [9fans] plumber's namespace? Message-ID: <20010307095404.588F9199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> We are facing strange behaviour of plumber. We added lines into the /sys/lib/plumb/basic file to make plumber recognize page -s (page with scrollbars) client as follows: # NASA image files go to page with scrollbars type is text data matches '[a-zA-Z¡-ï¿¿0-9_\-./]+' data matches '([a-zA-Z¡-ï¿¿0-9_\-./]+)\.(img|imq)' arg isfile $0 plumb to pdsimage plumb client page -ws $file Those are added just before jpeg etc. graphic images. Then, we can dispatch page -sw command, and see successfully that image, _if_ the image file is sitting on the disk, say /usr/okamoto/image/m0801499.imq. However, it does not recognize the image when we try to read the file from cdrom, which is mounted after I logged in, say such that /n/cdrom/m08014/m0801499.imq. Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 16:16:19 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:16:19 -0500 Subject: [9fans] plumber's namespace? Message-ID: <20010307095947.B7CB5199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mxzhdcovkrzivphyulidsxehcq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Probably the `isfile' cannot get to the file and fails. But I'm not a plumber expert. --upas-mxzhdcovkrzivphyulidsxehcq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by gsyc.escet.urjc.es (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA14612; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:55:28 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: gsyc.escet.urjc.es: Host postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] claimed to be mail.cse.psu.edu Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79A6A19A13; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 04:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 588F9199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 04:54:04 -0500 (EST) To: plan9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010307095404.588F9199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] plumber's namespace? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:53:32 0900 We are facing strange behaviour of plumber. We added lines into the /sys/lib/plumb/basic file to make plumber recognize page -s (page with scrollbars) client as follows: # NASA image files go to page with scrollbars type is text data matches '[a-zA-Z¡-ï¿¿0-9_\-./]+' data matches '([a-zA-Z¡-ï¿¿0-9_\-./]+)\.(img|imq)' arg isfile $0 plumb to pdsimage plumb client page -ws $file Those are added just before jpeg etc. graphic images. Then, we can dispatch page -sw command, and see successfully that image, _if_ the image file is sitting on the disk, say /usr/okamoto/image/m0801499.imq. However, it does not recognize the image when we try to read the file from cdrom, which is mounted after I logged in, say such that /n/cdrom/m08014/m0801499.imq. Kenji --upas-mxzhdcovkrzivphyulidsxehcq-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 15:04:50 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:04:50 -0500 Subject: [9fans] plumber's namespace? Message-ID: <20010307150453.1278B199F9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Try adding and using this rule when you want to tell the plumber about a change to the name space. RSC dreamed this one up some time ago but it's not in the paper. type is text data matches 'Local (.*)' plumb to none plumb start rc -c $1 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 21:34:31 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:34:31 -0500 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010307151750.ED44219A19@mail.cse.psu.edu> Hi, to play with draw I implemented a silly program that I think is useful. It lets you adjust a % using the mouse. For example, I use it as in slider -f 'audio out %d' >>/dev/volume to let me adjust the audio output level. the source is at http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/usr/nemo/export/slider.c From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 15:24:10 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:24:10 -0500 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010307152418.5FAF719A1F@mail.cse.psu.edu> For a quicky demo we've been putting together, I built a little library of graphics controls. A volume control, coincidentally, was one of the things I had to build; it came out as a variant scroll bar, with a little foresight. It needs a lot of soaking and a bug fix in libdraw, and it's far from exhaustive, but I like the way it works. The approach is sound and I may well end up rebuilding it to make a proper tool set. For the immediate purposes, however, I took a lot of shortcuts that make it not suitable for general use. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 21:50:57 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:50:57 -0500 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010307153404.1BB7A19A20@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is not the case, since I did it to learn; but I think most of us are reimplementing silly tools just because we consider them too silly to post a mail to the list saying `new silly tool available'. I'd propose that anytime any of us implements one of these silly tools, we drop a line to the list. That way we can save some time. Or perhaps it's time to setup a kind of official ftp area with contributed sw (vitanuova site?) so any new user could download it all at a go. just an idea... From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 16:54:03 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:54:03 0000 Subject: [9fans] plumber's namespace? Message-ID: <20010307154833.78C2D19A1A@mail.cse.psu.edu> > type is text > data matches 'Local (.*)' > plumb to none > plumb start rc -c $1 i'd wondered why something like this wasn't already in the plumbing; i thought that perhaps it was because of security considerations (i.e. it allows any program which has access to the plumber to get the plumber to run arbitrary programs, not just those specified in the plumbing file). that was also my imagined rationale behind the fact that there's no way to get a shell script to execute arbitrary "middle button" commands in acme (which would be very useful sometimes). anyway, thinking about the above plumbing rule: another thing you could do would be to have a namespace shared between the plumber and everything else - e.g. in lib/profile: @ {rfork n; srvfs plumbspace /n; plumber} mount -b /srv/plumbspace /n then (for instance) plumbing Local cdfs -m /n/cd would cause the contents of the cd rom to be viewable (and plumbable) to anywhere on the system. doesn't work so well for commands that require some interaction though (like ftpfs) and it's less efficient, but at least you don't have to execute the mount command twice. rog. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 15:51:37 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:51:37 +0200 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio In-Reply-To: <20010307153404.1BB7A19A20@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 04:50:57PM -0500 References: <20010307153404.1BB7A19A20@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010307175136.K17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 04:50:57PM -0500, nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es wrote: > > Or perhaps it's time to setup a kind of official ftp area with > contributed sw (vitanuova site?) so any new user could download it > all at a go. > Unless I'm misinterpreting the mood, I would think that Bell Labs are not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. If I were to make a suggestion, it would be a two-tier approach. A public posting followed by peer-review and eventual incorporation into the release (copyright permitting, naturally). Can the Wiki be used in this fashion? I'm afraid I have been lax on that score. ++L From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 22:15:06 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:15:06 -0500 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010307155821.C445619A25@mail.cse.psu.edu> : Unless I'm misinterpreting the mood, I would think that Bell Labs are : not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. I just don't like bazaars, I was talking about silly tiny tools, nice plumber rules, etc. that cannot be considered as part of the release. And it was just to avoid using google to locate new tools done this month by 9fans... ...you know, mpeg3play, acd, rgb, pop3get, ext2fs, et al. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 16:17:51 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:17:51 +0200 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio In-Reply-To: <20010307155821.C445619A25@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:15:06PM -0500 References: <20010307155821.C445619A25@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010307181751.L17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:15:06PM -0500, nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es wrote: > > : Unless I'm misinterpreting the mood, I would think that Bell Labs are > : not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. > > I just don't like bazaars, I was talking about silly tiny tools, > nice plumber rules, etc. that cannot be considered as part of the release. > And it was just to avoid using google to locate new tools done this month > by 9fans... > ...you know, mpeg3play, acd, rgb, pop3get, ext2fs, et al. Yes, I think the list of software, good or bad, should be easier to find. Unfortunately, that requires dedication as well as co-operation, something understandably missing where people have a job to do. And I think that the crucial item is documentation. RSC's little tools are wonderful, if one didn't have to look at their text to figure out what they do (no criticism implied here either, Russ). A searchable web site might be a good idea, again, assuming the wiki is not the preferable tool (I really must take a look at it). There Vita Nuova would seem in a favourable position indeed. ++L PS: I really didn't mean to sound critical in any fashion, and I would like to find a co-operative development for Plan 9 that did not risk at each turn to fly in the face of the existing elegance. It is something the Bell Labs people should spend some time formalising. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 22:41:10 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:41:10 -0500 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010307162426.BBFF419A21@mail.cse.psu.edu> : A searchable web site might be a good idea, again, assuming the wiki : is not the preferable tool (I really must take a look at it). There : Vita Nuova would seem in a favourable position indeed. Can the wiki installed for plan9 be used to put files other than web pages? Is the wiki maintainer (rsc?) willing to let us put the files there? If both answers are yes, I'm willing to spend some time on this. I'd start with the wonderful rsc's software page (if he doesn't mind) and turn it into a wiki page for contributed software. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 18:15:51 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:15:51 0000 Subject: [9fans] plan 9 software Message-ID: <20010307171021.3CC9B19A0F@mail.cse.psu.edu> > If both answers are yes, I'm willing to spend some time on this. I'd start > with the wonderful rsc's software page (if he doesn't mind) and turn it > into a wiki page for contributed software. i think rsc should start signing himself "the wonderful". re: software. this seems to me exactly the kind of thing that the wiki is good for. presuming it only allows text, it would make sense to create an area with links to all the little pieces of plan 9 software around. if you don't have access to web server storage for the software itself, there's always the vita nuova plan 9 contributions area (which has the added bonus of a potential (extremely tasteful!) plan 9 t-shirt) cheers, rog. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 01:29:16 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:29:16 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Charon and newsreader Message-ID: <20010307193315.E9E251998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Are Charon and the newsreader for Plan9 available anywhere online for download or are they only found on the Vitanuova CD? Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 21:55:29 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 21:55:29 0000 Subject: [9fans] Charon and newsreader Message-ID: <20010307215716.D973B199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-feepfagsdjatlmoiztmopizwwh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you can download Inferno for Plan 9, including Charon, from a link through http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ (see the section `Free Downloads') --upas-feepfagsdjatlmoiztmopizwwh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.36]) by lavoro; Wed Mar 7 22:03:09 GMT 2001 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 983993668:10:09931:12; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:34:28 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111294; 7 Mar 2001 19:34 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E34219A1C; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:34:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhostnl (localhostnl.demon.nl [195.11.248.215]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E9E251998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:33:15 -0500 (EST) From: William Staniewicz To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010307193315.E9E251998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Charon and newsreader Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:29:16 -0500 Are Charon and the newsreader for Plan9 available anywhere online for download or are they only found on the Vitanuova CD? Bill --upas-feepfagsdjatlmoiztmopizwwh-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 23:31:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:31:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio In-Reply-To: <20010307181751.L17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: Wiki ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Lucio De Re wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:15:06PM -0500, nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es wrote: > > > > : Unless I'm misinterpreting the mood, I would think that Bell Labs are > > : not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. > > > > I just don't like bazaars, I was talking about silly tiny tools, > > nice plumber rules, etc. that cannot be considered as part of the release. > > And it was just to avoid using google to locate new tools done this month > > by 9fans... > > ...you know, mpeg3play, acd, rgb, pop3get, ext2fs, et al. > > Yes, I think the list of software, good or bad, should be easier to > find. Unfortunately, that requires dedication as well as > co-operation, something understandably missing where people have a job > to do. > > And I think that the crucial item is documentation. RSC's little > tools are wonderful, if one didn't have to look at their text to > figure out what they do (no criticism implied here either, Russ). > > A searchable web site might be a good idea, again, assuming the wiki > is not the preferable tool (I really must take a look at it). There > Vita Nuova would seem in a favourable position indeed. > > ++L > > PS: I really didn't mean to sound critical in any fashion, and I would > like to find a co-operative development for Plan 9 that did not risk > at each turn to fly in the face of the existing elegance. It is > something the Bell Labs people should spend some time formalising. > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 7 23:34:33 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:34:33 -0500 Subject: [9fans] wiki & contributed software Message-ID: <200103072334.SAA14120@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu> I think putting a list of such things on the wiki makes a lot of sense. I started one. It's linked from the main page as ``User-contributed software''. I tossed some things in for the sake of having something there. Please add things. I'm not sure if the layout I've done is the best way to organize it, and eventually it might need to break into multiple pages. Feel free to cannibalize my web page further. I don't have time today. I'm not sure where things like click.c or bargraph.c or my shell script collection would go. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 04:43:25 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:43:25 0900 Subject: [9fans] plumber's namespace? Message-ID: <20010308044359.37880199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Thank you very much, Rob and Rog. > @ {rfork n; srvfs plumbspace /n; plumber} > mount -b /srv/plumbspace /n I love this way of making plumber's namespace, and it worked very fine here. I'll bring my Toshiba notebook to Vita Nuova's Training course in Tokyo (if my physical and mental condition permitts me to do so), and make some demonstration of our Plan 9 Japanese environement and this way of plumbing of some of Planetary images along with listening The Beatles's 1 CD by Russ's acd, such of "Eleanor Rigby". :-) Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 07:03:35 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:03:35 0900 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010308070404.3A5341998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> >not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. As I'm not any native English speaker, I don't see why Cathedral and Bazaar is tied with each other here. ;_; If you are not saying the case of limbo and alef, we can put anything to public, I think. Judging to incorporate it into the next release is depend on those who will make distibution. Even if, unfortunately, it will not be incorporated, you can distribute it separately, and others can select what s/he wants. I think this is very natural... I prefer controled distribution rather than anarchy one, particularly for its core part. In the case of alef and limbo, it may be difficult to judge, because no one can live without money today. ^_^ Of course, I know limbo and alef are different language each other, though. Kenji From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 07:43:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:43:21 +0200 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio In-Reply-To: <20010308070404.3A5341998A@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 04:03:35PM +0000 References: <20010308070404.3A5341998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010308094321.S17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 04:03:35PM +0000, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > >not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. > > As I'm not any native English speaker, I don't see why Cathedral and Bazaar > is tied with each other here. ;_; > Eric Raymond's essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" suggests that modern software development is organic rather than architectural. I think there's truth (Linux) in the suggestion, but my personal view is that I prefer few (and far between) cathedrals to flea markets around every corner as is the case in Johannesburg. So untidy! And then there's Pompidou Centre (where's Boyd?!) > If you are not saying the case of limbo and alef, we can put anything to > public, I think. Judging to incorporate it into the next release is depend > on those who will make distibution. Even if, unfortunately, it will not be > incorporated, you can distribute it separately, and others can select what > s/he wants. I think this is very natural... I prefer controled distribution > rather than anarchy one, particularly for its core part. > No, Limbo and Alef are anomalies. So is the 2nd Edition licence. Vita Nuova have every right to get a return on their investment, and I'd be right at the head of the queue if I could afford it. But I'm far more of a coral polyp than Aaro Saarinen or Le Corbusier, and I'm pleased that small contributions are permissible. Democracy would demand an open review process, both to encourage contributions and to protect the unwary from malicious offerings. And to retain and develop the culture in which the coral would grow. > In the case of alef and limbo, it may be difficult to judge, because no one > can live without money today. ^_^ Of course, I know limbo and alef are > different language each other, though. > I always thought Alef characterised Plan 9, so I'm pleased Limbo defines Inferno. It is sad that Alef had to be sacrificed to expedience (I don't mean this in a negative sense) and its lineage could continue outside the Inferno realm. It does say something for "C", though, that it can subsume the Alef properties. ++L From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 07:53:33 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:53:33 +0200 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio In-Reply-To: <20010308094321.S17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 09:43:21AM +0200 References: <20010308070404.3A5341998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> <20010308094321.S17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: <20010308095333.U17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 09:43:21AM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > > I always thought Alef characterised Plan 9, so I'm pleased Limbo > defines Inferno. It is sad that Alef had to be sacrificed to > expedience (I don't mean this in a negative sense) and its lineage > could continue outside the Inferno realm. It does say something > for "C", though, that it can subsume the Alef properties. > s/could continue/could not continue/ And that I'm using a GCC monstrosity with other GNU bloats to cross develop for a chip that has at most 16KBytes of program memory :-) ++L From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 09:27:09 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:27:09 0000 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010308092902.CC53E199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-njfvcpxhjtpzzvkukxcebmfmgy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>As I'm not any native English speaker, I don't see why Cathedral and Bazaar >>is tied with each other here. ;_; no, you're quite right. it's a mixed metaphor. Cathedral and (Nonconformist) Chapel would associate properly, or Magisterium and Free Thinker perhaps. the use of Bazaar is peculiar too; i suspected the author was one of those who referred to his books as `tomes'. perhaps he had in mind that it was noisy, bright and colourful, and if you took something without paying you got your hand chopped off. no, that can't be right ... --upas-njfvcpxhjtpzzvkukxcebmfmgy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from tele-punt-22.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.7]) by lavoro; Thu Mar 8 10:01:38 GMT 2001 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 984035142:20:00457:7; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 07:05:42 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2100431; 8 Mar 2001 7:05 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 059C0199E4; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 02:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3A5341998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 02:04:04 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010308070404.3A5341998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:03:35 0900 >not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. As I'm not any native English speaker, I don't see why Cathedral and Bazaar is tied with each other here. ;_; If you are not saying the case of limbo and alef, we can put anything to public, I think. Judging to incorporate it into the next release is depend on those who will make distibution. Even if, unfortunately, it will not be incorporated, you can distribute it separately, and others can select what s/he wants. I think this is very natural... I prefer controled distribution rather than anarchy one, particularly for its core part. In the case of alef and limbo, it may be difficult to judge, because no one can live without money today. ^_^ Of course, I know limbo and alef are different language each other, though. Kenji --upas-njfvcpxhjtpzzvkukxcebmfmgy-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 10:00:41 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:00:41 0000 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: > the use of Bazaar is peculiar too; i suspected the author was one of those who > referred to his books as `tomes'. perhaps he had in mind that it was noisy, > bright and colourful, and if you took something without paying you got your hand chopped off. > no, that can't be right ... Yes, and you think your buying a horse but it turns out to be a camel? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 10:20:55 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:20:55 +0200 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio In-Reply-To: ; from nigel@9fs.org on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 10:00:41AM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20010308122055.X17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 10:00:41AM +0000, nigel@9fs.org wrote: > > Yes, and you think your buying a horse but it turns out to be a camel? Depends what you paid for. They have so many free pack-quadrupeds, you spend more time finding a suitable one than travelling with or on it. My analogy is the coral reef. Maybe a touch too uniform to represent the Open Source movement accurately, but it served as a model for the pre-commercialisation Internet. You built your little home on the backbone others had built before you, and let others use your bit of backbone for their homes. We all have a good idea how far-reaching this approach has been. ++L From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 13:01:33 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:01:33 -0500 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010308130136.1C4F6199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> perhaps he had in mind that it was noisy, bright and colourful, and if you took something without paying you got your hand chopped off. Or maybe haggling for hours over the details of payment with someone who doesn't speak your language. Catheter and the bizarre is closer to the truth. In one case you're force fed by professionals; in the other anything can happen. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 20:44:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:44:11 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308144810.C2E3F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> I hope it's OK to post Inferno related topics here. If there is a better place please advise me. I just installed Inferno onto my Plan9 OS. Everything went well and followed the directions in the README. I have gotten down as far as starting the wm Window Manager. This is what happens: ; wm/wm attachscreen: can't mount window manager: bad rectangle in attach wm: cannot initialise display: initdisplay: /dev/draw/new: ; Where is the problem? -Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 16:06:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:06:32 0000 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308150100.71F0D1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-evamojsjwptvacpfwstxugrems Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've seen that message when trying to create a new window that's bigger than the overall display size. e.g. using emu -g800x600 on a 640x480 screen. the error message is coming from rio. what command line arguments did you give emu? cheers, rog. --upas-evamojsjwptvacpfwstxugrems Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for rog@vitanuova.com id 984062975:10:14698:14; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 14:49:35 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103017; 8 Mar 2001 14:49 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE0ED199E3; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhostnl (localhostnl.demon.nl [195.11.248.215]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C2E3F199C1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:48:10 -0500 (EST) To: cse.psu.edu!9fans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010308144810.C2E3F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:44:11 -0500 I hope it's OK to post Inferno related topics here. If there is a better place please advise me. I just installed Inferno onto my Plan9 OS. Everything went well and followed the directions in the README. I have gotten down as far as starting the wm Window Manager. This is what happens: ; wm/wm attachscreen: can't mount window manager: bad rectangle in attach wm: cannot initialise display: initdisplay: /dev/draw/new: ; Where is the problem? -Bill --upas-evamojsjwptvacpfwstxugrems-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 15:13:45 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:13:45 0000 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308150638.4E7191998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> there's no need to clutter the 9fans list with inferno items. there are three places: comp.os.inferno on Usenet, inferno@research.suspicious.org, the email list that pip recently started with great expectations ({echo subscribe inferno | mail majordomo@research.suspicious.org}), and support@vitanuova.com From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 21:16:56 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:16:56 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308152055.4CD161998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Here is my /rc/bin/termrc: EMU=(-g1024x768) Here is plan9.ini : vgasize=1024x768x8 I am just typing "emu" in rc. -Bill > > i've seen that message when trying to create a new > window that's bigger than the overall display size. > e.g. using emu -g800x600 on a 640x480 screen. > > the error message is coming from rio. > > what command line arguments did you give emu? > > cheers, > rog. > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 15:21:53 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:21:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: <20010308144810.C2E3F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <200103081521.KAA06562@augusta.math.psu.edu> In article <20010308144810.C2E3F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write: >I hope it's OK to post Inferno related topics here. If there >is a better place please advise me. > >I just installed Inferno onto my Plan9 OS. Everything went well >and followed the directions in the README. > >I have gotten down as far as starting the wm Window Manager. >This is what happens: > > ; wm/wm > attachscreen: can't mount window manager: bad rectangle in attach > wm: cannot initialise display: initdisplay: /dev/draw/new: > ; > >Where is the problem? This might be a dumb question, but are you trying to run it under acme? Okay, I know that was a dumb question. Did you invoke emu with the -g option? eg, emu -g800x600 ? (Note the lack of a space between the g and 8....). - Dan C. (ps- there is comp.os.inferno, but lots of precedence has been set with talking about Inferno on 9fans....) From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 15:23:42 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:23:42 +0100 (MET) Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar Message-ID: <200103081523.QAA17408@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Eric Raymond (http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr) wrote an article. It became a book. You can read about it at his web site if you want. You can even read the whole article if you want, but I will summarise here in case you don't want to. It is very very very famous and influential in the open source community; many people, I think most people would say that it is the foundation document of the open source software movement. In this document Eric Raymond compares writing software to how he believes Europeans made Cathedrals, and how Bazaars operate. Cathedrals are made by a small group of people with a plan. They have the vision and they control everything. If you like what they do, fine, if you hate it, you are stuck. Bazaars are different. There you get everything offered for sale. Some is good, some is not so good, but the important thing is that it is there. You can buy anything, take home and modify it if isn't too your liking. Lots and lots of people will do this, which is a very good thing. The more people you have working on a problem the better. Catherdral makers are elitist. Elitism is bad. Linux is cool because it is made with the Bazaar and not by Elitist Cathedral makers. What is astonishing is that European cathedrals were not made this way at all. What happened was quite often only done by the vaguest of plans. What really happened is this: Somebody went to some place that was building a catherdral and went home saying, ``Wow, this is *very* cool, I want to make one as well.'' People who mostly had only one occupation in those days, farmer, got to work weekends on making a cathedral. Lots of them thought that cathedral building was much more fun than farming. The Church people said that working on cathedrals was Holy and Good for you. Since the mathematics of architecture was just getting worked out, a lot of buildings fell over in the middle of construction. Some people got rich going from town to town advising people on how to make buildings that do not fall down. Some of the advice consisted of which prayers to say on which days of the year. If you took their advice, and your building fell down, you could start over, or sell the rubble to the people in the next town who needed the pieces for, guess what, their cathedral. Eventually we get a whole lot of nice cathedrals, some of which have been made of rocks that have been part of a half dozen or more failed cathedrals. We call the ones that are left over really cool and do not even think about the failures. This, I submit, is *exactly* the way the open source community operates. Laura Creighton From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 16:33:50 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:33:50 0000 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308152818.36374199F9@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-oqigksmztyaobvcflqckwsfkid Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well, that's your problem. you can't fit an inferno window of that size into rio (you have to take into account the 4-or-so pixel rio border too). you'd have the same problem if you tried to use the window(1) command to create a new rio window of that size. try -g1000x760 (which has the additional benefit of leaving you a little "plan 9 space" around the edges... rog. --upas-oqigksmztyaobvcflqckwsfkid Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for rog@vitanuova.com id 984064903:20:24173:3; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:21:43 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2024150; 8 Mar 2001 15:21 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C38B199E4; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:21:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhostnl (localhostnl.demon.nl [195.11.248.215]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4CD161998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:20:55 -0500 (EST) To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010308152055.4CD161998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:16:56 -0500 Here is my /rc/bin/termrc: EMU=(-g1024x768) Here is plan9.ini : vgasize=1024x768x8 I am just typing "emu" in rc. -Bill > > i've seen that message when trying to create a new > window that's bigger than the overall display size. > e.g. using emu -g800x600 on a 640x480 screen. > > the error message is coming from rio. > > what command line arguments did you give emu? > > cheers, > rog. > --upas-oqigksmztyaobvcflqckwsfkid-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 15:39:16 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:39:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio In-Reply-To: <20010308094321.S17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> References: <20010308070404.3A5341998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <200103081539.KAA06692@augusta.math.psu.edu> In article <20010308094321.S17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> you write: >Eric Raymond's essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" suggests that >modern software development is organic rather than architectural. >I think there's truth (Linux) in the suggestion, but my personal >view is that I prefer few (and far between) cathedrals to flea >markets [...] Hmmm.... The more I think about it, the less I believe Eric Raymond. Linux really is built architecturally; those components where the unwashed masses contribute (device drivers, utilities) are more like the bricks in the cathedral, if you will.... Even medieval cathedrals had masses of unwashed laborors to put everything together (often in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, but I digress....) once it had been defined by the architects. I guess the idea with Linux is that the potential is there for anyone to contribute to major components of the system, but that's probably true of any ``Open Source'' project, and doesn't mean that the architecture isn't tightly controlled. That said, I have a hard time accepting the ``bazaar'' idea.... It's meant to work if you have lots of highly skilled individuals working on a project. Unfortunately, most projects are staffed almost entirely by mediocre individuals, and most if not all projects I've seen run that way produce buggy, bloated, and unreadable code. It's a shame that an entire generation of programmers is growing up learning from such horrible models of style..... Call it the ``slashdot effect.'' - Dan C. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 21:51:28 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:51:28 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308155527.A1391199EC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Yes, that was the problem. It comes up OK now. Thank you, Bill BTW, just joined the inferno list. :) > > well, that's your problem. you can't fit an inferno window of that > size into rio (you have to take into account the 4-or-so pixel rio > border too). > > you'd have the same problem if you tried to use the window(1) command > to create a new rio window of that size. > > try -g1000x760 (which has the additional benefit of leaving you a > little "plan 9 space" around the edges... > > rog. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 16:04:47 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:04:47 0000 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio Message-ID: <20010308155741.6635119A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> >>had masses of unwashed laborors to put everything together (often in >>unsanitary and unsafe conditions, but I digress....) once it had been indeed, that does sound, or rather smell, like many undergraduate PC classrooms... especially when that project is due. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 16:54:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jason Gurtz) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:54:46 -0500 Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar In-Reply-To: <200103081523.QAA17408@boris.cd.chalmers.se> Message-ID: > > Eventually we get a whole lot of nice cathedrals, some of which have been > made of rocks that have been part of a half dozen or more failed > cathedrals. > We call the ones that are left over really cool and do not even > think about > the failures. > > This, I submit, is *exactly* the way the open source community operates. Nice; I like those statments. They are refreshing. ~jason -- +-------------------------+ | Jason(at)tommyk(dot)com | +-------------------------+ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 22:18:40 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:18:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: <20010308150638.4E7191998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: Excuse me, Inferno ships on the Plan 9 CD and provides the only 'shrink wrap' browser so your point is simply OS bigotry. It is clear that Inferno is intended by Lucent to be used with Plan 9. Therefore discussion within the scope of Plan 9 operations should be apropos. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > there's no need to clutter the 9fans list with inferno items. > there are three places: comp.os.inferno on Usenet, inferno@research.suspicious.org, > the email list that pip recently started with great expectations > ({echo subscribe inferno | mail majordomo@research.suspicious.org}), > and support@vitanuova.com ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 22:10:53 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:10:53 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308221054.CFA78199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lepctqspgqyvujqrbaxmhjasmk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually Lucent intends nothing about Inferno, Vitanuova now owns everything including intentions. I'm perfectly happy to defer to their desires about when/where to discuss Inferno. --upas-lepctqspgqyvujqrbaxmhjasmk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Mar 8 17:05:31 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Mar 8 17:05:30 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AACF199DC; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:05:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 592FE199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:04:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA19390 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:18:40 -0600 From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: <20010308150638.4E7191998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:18:40 -0600 (CST) Excuse me, Inferno ships on the Plan 9 CD and provides the only 'shrink wrap' browser so your point is simply OS bigotry. It is clear that Inferno is intended by Lucent to be used with Plan 9. Therefore discussion within the scope of Plan 9 operations should be apropos. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > there's no need to clutter the 9fans list with inferno items. > there are three places: comp.os.inferno on Usenet, inferno@research.suspicious.org, > the email list that pip recently started with great expectations > ({echo subscribe inferno | mail majordomo@research.suspicious.org}), > and support@vitanuova.com ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-lepctqspgqyvujqrbaxmhjasmk-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 22:34:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:34:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: <20010308221054.CFA78199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: Which doesn't change the point one whit. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Actually Lucent intends nothing about Inferno, Vitanuova now owns everything > including intentions. I'm perfectly happy to defer to their desires about > when/where to discuss Inferno. ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 23:35:10 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 23:35:10 0000 Subject: [9fans] Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010308233704.9B1D5199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> >Excuse me, Inferno ships on the Plan 9 CD and provides the only 'shrink >wrap' browser so your point is simply OS bigotry. It is clear that Inferno >is intended by Lucent to be used with Plan 9. Therefore discussion within >the scope of Plan 9 operations should be apropos. i think you misread my intentions: ultimately i don't myself care where Inferno is mentioned, especially where the two overlap because they are clearly related, and Inferno is indeed a Plan 9 application, but someone did ask, and i therefore pointed out that there were several places already dedicated to it (well, if you discount `MAKE MONEY FAST' and `Napster Lives!' messages), where one could ask Inferno-specific questions. Inferno ships on the Plan 9 CD because we (not Lucent) thought it might encourage interest, and it provided a moderately capable browser (including Javascript, and with finite source). our Plan 9 CD includes other software (mainly software package ports contributed by Russ `The Wonderful' Cox) that we also thought would be useful and in which we have no proprietary interest at all. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 23:56:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:56:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: <20010308233704.9B1D5199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > >Excuse me, Inferno ships on the Plan 9 CD and provides the only 'shrink > >wrap' browser so your point is simply OS bigotry. It is clear that Inferno > >is intended by Lucent to be used with Plan 9. Therefore discussion within > >the scope of Plan 9 operations should be apropos. > > i think you misread my intentions: Then perhaps you should be more careful and considerate of what you write. Especially considering you're an official developer and representative of the company. Thanks for the clarification. ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 8 23:44:43 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (andrey mirtchovski) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:44:43 -0600 Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" References: Message-ID: <3AA8196B.43C119F4@mail.usask.ca> are you sure you are insulting the right people? Jim Choate wrote: > > >Excuse me, Inferno ships on the Plan 9 CD and provides the only 'shrink > > >wrap' browser so your point is simply OS bigotry. It is clear that Inferno > > >is intended by Lucent to be used with Plan 9. Therefore discussion within > > >the scope of Plan 9 operations should be apropos. > > > > i think you misread my intentions: > > Then perhaps you should be more careful and considerate of what you write. > Especially considering you're an official developer and representative of > the company. > have you considered a smaller sig? > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a > smaller group must first understand it. > > "Stranger Suns" > George Zebrowski > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 00:01:50 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:01:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: <3AA8196B.43C119F4@mail.usask.ca> Message-ID: I didn't 'insult' anyone. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > are you sure you are insulting the right people? > have you considered a smaller sig? Have you considered suicide? ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 02:40:44 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:40:44 -0800 Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio References: <20010308130136.1C4F6199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AA842AC.982DA928@san.rr.com> rob pike wrote: > > perhaps he had in mind that it was noisy, bright and colourful, and if > you took something without paying you got your hand chopped off. [xxx] > Catheter and the bizarre is closer to the truth. In one case you're force > fed by professionals; in the other anything can happen. > -rob After spending the last few days struggling to port a C++ program to HPUX and g++ on a v2500 I found this response to be particularly funny. Definately made my week. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 03:46:41 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:46:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: References: <3AA8196B.43C119F4@mail.usask.ca> Message-ID: <200103090346.WAA10244@augusta.math.psu.edu> In article you write: > >I didn't 'insult' anyone. Your tone was a little strong, and could be interpreted as insulting. Charles Forsyth has a tendancy to say things in what is, I imagine, a rather ``British'' way. To our untrained and (mostly) American eyes and ears, this might come across as rude, but I don't think it's meant that way; I'd guess that it's just a cultural difference. In other words, I think you're taking exception to something which is entirely innocent. >> have you considered a smaller sig? > >Have you considered suicide? That's just uncalled for. Honestly, your sig is pretty long (whatever happened to 4 lines as the rule of thumb for max length?), and statements like these just reduce your credibility. - Dan C. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 04:11:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Wishart) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:11:49 -0800 Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar Message-ID: <200103090411.UAA27931@pyramid.cs.unr.edu> Laura Creighton paints a picture of enthusiastic workers building cathedrals, failing and learning from their mistakes, as a model of open software. A tour of the lovely town of York England 3 years back pointed out that the capital raised to build the York Minster and 40 some other churches in old York was extorted from wealthy landowners and the peasants (pay or go to hell). I think this better fits the model of large corporations putting pressure on managers to get products to market, or lose your job or not advance up the corporate ladder. Certainly this was a top down endeavor, not bottom up as is plan9 and Linux. Ed Wishart From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 06:11:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:11:05 +0200 Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Choate on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 06:01:50PM -0600 References: <3AA8196B.43C119F4@mail.usask.ca> Message-ID: <20010309081105.A17986@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 06:01:50PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > > have you considered a smaller sig? > > Have you considered suicide? > Yes, but there are infinitely more rewarding activities. Where do you live? Oh, yes, a smaller signature would be more polite, too. > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a > smaller group must first understand it. > > "Stranger Suns" > George Zebrowski > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ++L From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 06:54:02 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:54:02 0900 Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar Message-ID: <20010309065432.688FF199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Thanks Laura, I checked >Eric Raymond (http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr) wrote an article. It became a this document, and had a question why Allan Cox says nothing about this kind of topics... I may be rude to use another person's name, however, he seems to be famous enough in this world. I've heard Linus says something about Linux though. Eric says anything new? He says how to organize peoples in a more efficient way, or something, at least I've read his document so. Kenji -----I'll come back here after March 21th, sorry--- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 08:53:52 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:53:52 0000 Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010309085548.84548199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnfzmmctbofdpmrurgpojpeugo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit now i'm even more bemused. i can't think of any obscure anglicisms in any of that, let alone any rude ones. he expressed a lack of a specific point of contact about inferno, and i gave him three. overgenerous if anything, if you ask me. still, as Dan C observes and Stoppard amusingly demonstrated in Dogg's Hamlet, Cahoot's Macbeth (taking an idea from a discussion by Wittgenstein) the interpretation of words can indeed be non-trivial. Cutlery. --upas-mnfzmmctbofdpmrurgpojpeugo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from tele-punt-22.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.7]) by lavoro; Fri Mar 9 06:06:40 GMT 2001 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 984109643:20:16901:0; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 03:47:23 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2016844; 9 Mar 2001 3:47 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DC96199D7; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4577199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:46:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04365 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:46:41 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Cross Received: (from cross@localhost) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id WAA10244; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:46:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200103090346.WAA10244@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: <3AA8196B.43C119F4@mail.usask.ca> Organization: Mememememememmeme Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:46:41 -0500 (EST) In article you write: > >I didn't 'insult' anyone. Your tone was a little strong, and could be interpreted as insulting. Charles Forsyth has a tendancy to say things in what is, I imagine, a rather ``British'' way. To our untrained and (mostly) American eyes and ears, this might come across as rude, but I don't think it's meant that way; I'd guess that it's just a cultural difference. In other words, I think you're taking exception to something which is entirely innocent. >> have you considered a smaller sig? > >Have you considered suicide? That's just uncalled for. Honestly, your sig is pretty long (whatever happened to 4 lines as the rule of thumb for max length?), and statements like these just reduce your credibility. - Dan C. --upas-mnfzmmctbofdpmrurgpojpeugo-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 11:09:59 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (James Carter) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:09:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar In-Reply-To: <200103090411.UAA27931@pyramid.cs.unr.edu> Message-ID: On 8 Mar, Ed Wishart wrote: > A tour of the lovely > town of York England city, please. :-) -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 20:33:37 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:33:37 -0500 Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar Message-ID: <20010309203343.AACCB199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> > ... the capital raised to build the York Minster and 40 some other > churches in old York was extorted from wealthy landowners and the > peasants (pay or go to hell). I think this better fits the model So, in present-day York is VN playing the role of the Church, the wealth landowners, or the peasants? Dennis From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 22:18:47 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:18:47 0000 Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar Message-ID: <20010309222043.E94151998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gqyfbrproaopbgvifknkruozta Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i thought we were an autonomous collective! --upas-gqyfbrproaopbgvifknkruozta Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.36]) by lavoro; Fri Mar 9 22:02:59 GMT 2001 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 984170079:10:21230:2; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:34:39 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021033; 9 Mar 2001 20:34 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88B6E199E1; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:34:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AACCB199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:33:43 -0500 (EST) From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010309203343.AACCB199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:33:37 -0500 > ... the capital raised to build the York Minster and 40 some other > churches in old York was extorted from wealthy landowners and the > peasants (pay or go to hell). I think this better fits the model So, in present-day York is VN playing the role of the Church, the wealth landowners, or the peasants? Dennis --upas-gqyfbrproaopbgvifknkruozta-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 9 23:53:33 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:53:33 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. Message-ID: <3AA96CFD.BB604032@san.rr.com> My soundblaster clone is a Creative CT4170, supposedly a Soundblaster 16. Anyway saying 'audio0=type=sb16' gives me a diagnostic: i8259enable: irq 2 shared but not level intrenable: couldn't enable irq 2 tbdf 0xffffffff for audio This isin't particularly shocking, but what's weird is that DHCP then won't work! Examining dhcp packets with snoopy shows that the 3rd octet in the Ip address is munged, resulting in an IP checksum error. Cool, huh? --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 00:40:45 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:40:45 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. Message-ID: <200103100040.TAA02600@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu> cat '#P/irqalloc' -- is your ethernet card on IRQ 2 as well? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 02:55:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Sam Ducksworth) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:55:46 -0800 Subject: [9fans] error in audio man page ? Message-ID: <3AA997B2.144503DA@ducksworth.com> i noticed that in audio(3) it reads as follows --> NAME --> --> audio ­ SoundBlaster audio controller --> --> SYNOPSIS --> --> bind -a #A /dev --> /dev/audio --> /dev/volume if i type... term% bind -a #A /dev i get a usage error. if i type... term% bind -a '#A' /dev then all is well. just an FYI. -sam From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 03:23:48 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:23:48 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. References: <200103100040.TAA02600@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <3AA99E44.E6D06B8B@san.rr.com> Russ Cox wrote: > cat '#P/irqalloc' -- is your ethernet card on IRQ 2 as well? nope. irqalloc says ethernet is 10. isin't 2 the daisy-chain interrupt? --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 05:08:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:08:01 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. Message-ID: <20010310050804.5F2381998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> let's see the contents of plan9.ini #P/irqalloc #P/ioalloc From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 15:15:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:15:11 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Slightly different Plan 9 Bunny Message-ID: <20010310091912.80D581998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> A friend of mine who often hears me speaking highly of Plan 9 recently sent me an email with his version of the Plan 9 bunny. You can see them here: small bunny http://www.localhostnl.demon.nl/bunny02.jpg big bunny http://www,localhostnl.demon.nl/bunny01.jpg He is entirely a Windows person right now and I suspect the "hole" in the image may represent the result of a high-velocity projectile. But, it is pretty creative none the less. -Bill Amsterdam, NL From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 15:24:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:24:05 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Slightly different Plan 9 Bunny Message-ID: <20010310092805.F1C2E199DC@mail.cse.psu.edu> > big bunny > http://www,localhostnl.demon.nl/bunny01.jpg ^ "comma" doesn't belong here Should be: big bunny http://www.localhostnl.demon.nl/bunny01.jpg -Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 13:03:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:03:07 0000 Subject: [9fans] error in audio man page ? Message-ID: <20010310130505.4FD1A1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-djexailkohonrinhiqckbxmzgk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the manual pages actually show the namespace(6) syntax not the shell syntax, contrary to the explanation in intro(2). i'd be inclined to change the latter to correspond to the existing pages, but that's just my opinion. --upas-djexailkohonrinhiqckbxmzgk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from tele-punt-22.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.7]) by lavoro; Sat Mar 10 06:05:37 GMT 2001 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 984193064:20:18285:3; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:57:44 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2017890; 10 Mar 2001 2:57 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33421199DC; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 21:57:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from wopie.prowillen.com (wopie.prowillen.com [209.10.42.10]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB76E1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 21:56:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ducksworth.com ([209.152.156.1]) by wopie.prowillen.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61815U200L100S0V35) with ESMTP id com for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:56:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3AA997B2.144503DA@ducksworth.com> From: Sam Ducksworth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] error in audio man page ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: sam@ducksworth.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:55:46 -0800 i noticed that in audio(3) it reads as follows --> NAME --> --> audio SoundBlaster audio controller --> --> SYNOPSIS --> --> bind -a #A /dev --> /dev/audio --> /dev/volume if i type... term% bind -a #A /dev i get a usage error. if i type... term% bind -a '#A' /dev then all is well. just an FYI. -sam --upas-djexailkohonrinhiqckbxmzgk-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 07:04:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: 10 Mar 01 7:04:32 AM Subject: [9fans] 142 Million Email Addresses - $149 Message-ID: <200103101504.QAA23897@un04.zarz.gsw.pl> TO BE REMOVED FROM FUTURE MAILINGS, SIMPLY REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE AND PUT "REMOVE" IN THE SUBJECT. 142 MILLION EMAIL ADDRESSES FOR ONLY $149 You want to make some money? 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This is a 24 hour phone number to place a CREDIT CARD order. This is an ORDER LINE only. 4) Mail your order to: Cyber FirePower! P.O. Box 4331 Chico, CA 95927 ALL INFORMATION NECESSARY FOR YOU TO SUCCESSFULLY MAIL QUICKLY, PROPERLY, & LEGALLY IS PROVIDED WITH YOUR ORDER. Copyright 2000, 2001 Please NOTE: This advertisement is NOT sponsored by ANY Internet Service Provider. This is an advertisement that is produced and sponsored by Cyber FirePower! for Cyber FirePower! to reach potential customers. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Amendment I, The US Constitution From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 10 15:22:36 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:22:36 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Slightly different Plan 9 Bunny Message-ID: <20010310152239.CD232199DC@mail.cse.psu.edu> For a sighting of the One True Bunny see the cover of the recently published book Marbles in My Underpants: The Renée French Collection From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 11 06:40:34 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:40:34 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. References: <20010310050804.5F2381998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AAB1DE2.31788B04@san.rr.com> jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > let's see the contents of > plan9.ini > #P/irqalloc > #P/ioalloc plan9.ini: bootdisk=local!#S/sdC0/fs *nomp=1 ether0=type=elnk3 monitor=multisync75 vgasize=1024x768x8 mouseport=0 audio0=type=sb16 ioalloc: 0 f dma 20 21 i8259.0 40 43 i8253 60 60 kbd 61 61 i8253.cntr2c 64 64 kbd 70 71 rtc/nvr 80 8f dma a0 a1 i8259.1 d0 df dma 170 177 atacmd 1f0 1f7 atacmd 2b0 2df vga 2f8 2ff eia1 300 30f tcm509isa 376 376 atactl 378 37a lpt0 3c0 3da vga 3f0 3f5 floppy 3f6 3f6 atactl 3f7 3f7 floppy 3f8 3ff eia0 irqalloc: 3 0 debugpt 7 0 mathemu 9 0 mathover 14 0 fault386 16 0 matherror 32 0 clock 33 1 kbd 35 3 eia1 36 4 eia0 38 6 floppy 39 7 lpt 42 10 ether0 46 14 sdC (ata) 47 15 sdD (ata) i'm not sure where audio cards typically iomap, i guess around 0x220. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 11 17:12:39 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:12:39 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. Message-ID: <20010311171242.970571998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> There are a couple of issues here. First, for historical reasons which I won't go into for fear of hurting feelings, the defaults used by the SB16 driver bear no relation to the defaults on a card when you take it out the box, so it's almost always a mistake to not specify the IRQ and DMA in plan9.ini; for example, the default driver IRQ is 7 which will clash with the lpt IRQ. The plan9.ini configuration for an SB16 with default hardware settings should be something like audio0=type=sb16 port=0x220 irq=5 dma=1 Secondly, the SB16 doesn't show up in the iomap output because the driver doesn't call the routine to register the space it uses. That's a bug we should fix but shouldn't affect the operation of the driver (assuming there is no actual clash with another device). --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 00:16:20 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:16:20 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Usenet/News Reader Message-ID: <20010311182021.AB9A11998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Just curious if anyone has a Usenet/News Reader in the making or now ported to Plan 9. I am happy with Charon now that I have Inferno running but just looking for a bit more to make my usage on Plan9 closer to 100 percent. -Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 11 22:36:29 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:36:29 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Usenet/News Reader Message-ID: <2.0.2-1451992-386-A-OEWW@204.178.31.2> I have an nntpfs that is solid and an acme News that needs a little work but is usable. Let me know if you're interested. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 11 23:38:52 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:38:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] Usenet/News Reader In-Reply-To: <2.0.2-1451992-386-A-OEWW@204.178.31.2> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Russ Cox wrote: > I have an nntpfs that is solid > and an acme News that needs a > little work but is usable. > > Let me know if you're interested. It's like pulling teeth... ____________________________________________________________________ Legislators and Judges are the pimps of modern American society. Police, lawyers, and reporters are their whores. Democracy is dead. Copyright 2001 All Rights Reserved The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 05:27:36 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:27:36 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Acme definition Message-ID: <20010311233137.1FFE61998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> A friend asked me about the origin of the word "Acme". My first impulse was to consult the "OED", but not having one handy, I resorted to some online sources. Most neglected to include a reference to one of my favorite contexts: The Roadrunner cartoon (btw, while living in Texas, I actually saw one run across the street in front of my car, it actually looked like the one in the Warner Bros' series and moved like it too!). Acme n. [from Greek `akme', highest point of perfection or achievement] The canonical supplier of bizarre, elaborate, and non-functional gadgetry - where Rube Goldberg and Heath Robinson (two cartoonists who specialized in elaborate contraptions) shop. The name has been humorously expanded as A (or American) Company Making Everything. (In fact, Acme was a real brand sold from Sears Roebuck catalogs in the early 1900s.) Describing some X as an "Acme X" either means "This is insanely great", or, more likely, "This looks insanely great on paper, but in practice it's really easy to shoot yourself in the foot with it." Compare pistol. This term, specially cherished by American hackers and explained here for the benefit of our overseas brethren, comes from the Warner Brothers' series of "Roadrunner" cartoons. In these cartoons, the famished Wile E. Coyote was forever attempting to catch up with, trap, and eat the Roadrunner. His attempts usually involved one or more high-technology Rube Goldberg devices - rocket jetpacks, catapults, magnetic traps, high-powered slingshots, etc. These were usually delivered in large cardboard boxes, labeled prominently with the Acme name. These devices invariably malfunctioned in improbable and violent ways. -Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 11 23:43:26 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (George Michaelson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:43:26 +1000 Subject: [9fans] Acme definition In-Reply-To: Message from William Staniewicz of "Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:27:36 EST." <20010311233137.1FFE61998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <19268.984354206@dstc.edu.au> The Epitome seems to embody almost all concepts Acme tried to reach for, without the downside connotations. Plus, as an added benefit, it has only one correct pronounciation but at least two plausible ones, permitting the cogniscenti to discern those of a less 'au courant' comprehension. Wiley should have learned from his mistakes. Nowadays, I suspect a smart lawyer could injunct either Acme, or the new mexico roads department, possibly both. -George -- George Michaelson | DSTC Pty Ltd Email: ggm@dstc.edu.au | University of Qld 4072 Phone: +61 7 3365 4310 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3365 4311 | http://www.dstc.edu.au From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 02:55:15 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:55:15 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Acme definition Message-ID: <20010312025533.2551E199E9@mail.cse.psu.edu> Not exactly. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 02:57:18 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:57:18 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Acme definition Message-ID: <20010312025720.1A9BC1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Nowadays, I suspect a smart lawyer could injunct either Acme, or the new mexico roads department, possibly both. Ian Frazier wrote a story called "Coyote v. Acme" that later became the eponymous member of a book collecting his stories. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 03:14:18 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 22:14:18 -0500 Subject: [9fans] balancing your budget Message-ID: <20010312031421.281FF1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> I'm back from vacation. I just updated the "balance" program at http://www.csh-east.org/~tad/plan9/ to compile under both Unix and Plan9 from the same source. I was tired of keeping both versions up to date, so I chose to use APE to simplify the task. I'll probably switch it over to compute everything in cents sometime soon (so I can get rid of the rint() call) -Tad From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:21:08 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Vincent D Murphy) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:21:08 +0000 Subject: [9fans] Re: Usenet/News Reader In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 05:38:52PM -0600 References: <2.0.2-1451992-386-A-OEWW@204.178.31.2> Message-ID: <20010312092108.A23327@student.cs.ucc.ie> = Jim Choate [20010311 2325]: > It's like pulling teeth... what? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:58:37 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Luiz Felipe R. B. Toledo) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:58:37 GMT Subject: [9fans] SIS 530 Message-ID: <3AABF145.431A3F3F@terra.com.br> --------------BAE16E921F360479C55221E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How Can I setup a SIS 530 vga card? -- Luiz Felipe R. B. Toledo psych0@terra.com.br http://uhs.n3.net --------------BAE16E921F360479C55221E6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How Can I setup a SIS 530 vga card?
  
-- 

Luiz Felipe R. B. Toledo
psych0@terra.com.br
http://uhs.n3.net
  --------------BAE16E921F360479C55221E6-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:57:51 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Luis Fernandes) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:57:51 GMT Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" References: <20010309085548.84548199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: >>>>> "forsyth" == forsyth writes: forsyth> [...] interpretation of words can indeed be non-trivial. forsyth> Cutlery. *Ahem* Telling someone to fork-off is definitely rude. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:57:19 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ozan Yigit) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:57:19 GMT Subject: [9fans] silly slider tool for rio References: <20010308070404.3A5341998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp writes: > >not faithful followers of the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" religion. > > As I'm not any native English speaker, I don't see why Cathedral and Bazaar > is tied with each other here. ;_; i gather the only reason the two are tied together is that it sounds interesting and deep to people who read "old architecture" for the word cathedral, and rarely visit an actual bazaar (let alone a cathedral :). he could have titled his treatise "empire state building and the bazaar" but it doesn't sound as neat, and who really wants to write about the kinds of architecture that can withstand (the equivalent of) a B-25 bomber crash? :] oz From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:57:02 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jeff Sickel) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:57:02 GMT Subject: [9fans] cheap single/dual processor supported machines Message-ID: Could someone recomend some cheap hardware to run Plan9 on? I'm looking for a 1 or 2 unit high 1 or 2 processor machine that would work well as a starting point. If the new sub $1k sparc machines were supported ... I'd be interested. But I'm fully willing to get an Alpha/Intel or MIPS machine if required. As all of the public docs are geared towards installation on PC hardware, some 1 or 2 unit high Intel machine might be the best starting point - though as hardware changes... I'd like to make sure I can get the required devices: vga is of course the most concern since different vendors are notorious in making slight changes. Thanks Jeff From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:56:48 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Chris Locke) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:56:48 GMT Subject: [9fans] Charon and newsreader References: <20010307193315.E9E251998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <984001401.14779.0.nnrp-12.c2de4822@news.demon.co.uk> William Staniewicz wrote in message news:20010307193315.E9E251998A@mail.cse.psu.edu... > Are Charon and the newsreader for Plan9 available > anywhere online for download or are they only found > on the Vitanuova CD? > > Bill > Charon is part of the Inferno distribution - you need Inferno to run it. However you don't need the Inferno CD. The Plan 9 Inferno port, including Charon and all limbo application code is available as a free download. See http://cgi.www.vitanuova.com/cgi-bin/www.vitanuova.com/idown.pl Once past the 'I accept the licence' page you will see a page offering the various download files. For Plan 9 you'll need inferno.tgz and Plan9.tgz Chris. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 08:46:15 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:46:15 +0200 Subject: [9fans] Usenet/News Reader In-Reply-To: <2.0.2-1451992-386-A-OEWW@204.178.31.2>; from Russ Cox on Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 05:36:29PM -0500 References: <2.0.2-1451992-386-A-OEWW@204.178.31.2> Message-ID: <20010312104615.A391@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 05:36:29PM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > I have an nntpfs that is solid > and an acme News that needs a > little work but is usable. > > Let me know if you're interested. > > Russ *Publish*and*be*damned!* :-) :-) - just in case! ++L From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:56:34 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (peter huang) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:56:34 GMT Subject: [9fans] off-wall idea, file server and SAN References: <20010305104324.DDAF719A02@mail.cse.psu.edu>, Message-ID: <9811cp$n6b$1@web1.cup.hp.com> thanks for the reply. However, there was a point missing from my posting. The purpose of file server is to serve files, while plan9 file system is better than other file systems in many regards but it can only serve system running plan9. While this may not be a problem for most users in plan9 fans but if I built a good nice file system, I want the other machines on the network able to use it, that include mswindows system, linux system, BE .... I can't spend $3500 just to show I have the coolest file system on earth. I know there is an IDE version of the file server in work and that may suit my need (low cost). However, the bigger question remain, how do I reduce redunancy and have one file server doing the right job in a hetergenous environment. It is possible to write a ifs (install file system) on NT, but without implement 9p, I don't think it is useful, the same goes for linux ext2. The idea of SAN in my mind is quite similar to plan9 file server but more target for a hetegrenous environment. It would be cool to take some SAN hardware, port plan9 file server on it, add support for smb protocol and dvd-ram drive and become the one and only one file server on the network. It could be the file system for my Tivo box ;-) Anyway, I like to see plan9 network as the backbone of a small network (such as home network), machines boot from it or store files on it and never worry about backup disaster or obsolete hardware (which was the vision). regards peter huang From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:58:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:58:05 GMT Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. References: <20010311171242.970571998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AABD0B6.E7693073@null.net> jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Secondly, the SB16 doesn't show up in the iomap output because the > driver doesn't call the routine to register the space it uses. > That's a bug we should fix but shouldn't affect the operation of the > driver (assuming there is no actual clash with another device). Hm, with a PCI-only motherboard, which is about all one can buy these days, the nearest thing to a Plan 9-suppored SoundBlaster seems to be the SoundBlaster-16 PCI, which like everything else for PCI these days is plug-and-play. Is there some way to make this work on Plan 9? Also, does the 3C905C-TM (PCI) work a a Plan 9 Ethernet card? It's getting harder and harder to build an ISA PC.. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 09:58:50 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Dave Turner) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:58:50 GMT Subject: [9fans] Acme definition References: <20010312025720.1A9BC1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: rob@plan9.bell-labs.com (rob pike) wrote: > Nowadays, I suspect a smart lawyer could injunct either Acme, or the > new mexico roads department, possibly both. > >Ian Frazier wrote a story called "Coyote v. Acme" that later became the >eponymous member of a book collecting his stories. Here are "Coyote v. Acme" and Mr. Coyote's defense: COYOTE V. ACME In The United States District Court, Southwestern District, Tempe, Arizona Case No. B19293, Judge Joan Kujava, Presiding Wile E. Coyote, Plaintiff -v.- Acme Company, Defendant Opening statement of Mr. Harold Schoff, attorney for Mr. Coyote: My client, Mr. Wile E. Coyote, a resident of Arizona and contiguous states, does hearby bring suit for damages against the Acme Company, manufacturer and retail distributor of assorted merchandise, incorporated in Delaware and doing business in every state, district, and territory. Mr. Coyote seeks compensation for personal injuries, loss of business income, and mental suffering caused as a direct result of the actions and/or gross negligence of said company, under Title 15 of the United States Code, Chapter 47, section 2072, subsection (a), relating to product liability. Mr. Coyote states that on eighty-five separate occasions he has purchased of the Acme Company (hereinafter, "Defendant"), through that company`s mail-order department, certain products which did cause him bodily injury due to defects in manufacture or improper cautionary labeling. Sales slips made out to Mr. Coyote as proof of purchase are at present in the possession of the Court, marked Exhibit A. Such injuries sustained by Mr. Coyote have temporarily restricted his ability to make a living in his profession of predator. Mr. Coyote is self-employed and thus not eligible for Workmen`s Compensation. Mr. Coyote states that on December 13th he received of Defendant via parcel post one Acme Rocket Sled. The intention of Mr. Coyote was to use the Rocket sled to aid him in pursuit of his prey. Upon receipt of the Rocket Sled Mr. Coyote removed it from its wooden shipping crate and sighting his prey in the distance, activated the ignition. As Mr. Coyote gripped the handlebars, the Rocket Sled accelerated with such sudden and precipitate force as to stretch Mr. Coyote`s forelimbs to a length of fifty feet. Subsequently, the rest of Mr. Coyote`s body shot forward with a violent jolt, causing severe strain to his back and neck and placing him unexpectedly astride the Rocket Sled. Disappearing over the horizon at such speed as to leave a diminishing jet trail along its path, the Rocket Sled soon brought Mr. Coyote abreast of his prey. At that moment the animal he was pursuing veered sharply to the right. Mr. Coyote vigorously attempted to follow this maneuver but was unable to, due to poorly designed steering on the Rocket Sled and a faulty or nonexistent braking system. Shortly thereafter, the unchecked progress of the Rocket Sled brought it and Mr. Coyote into collision with the side of a mesa. Paragraph One of the Report of Attending Physician (Exhibit B), prepared by Dr. Ernest Grosscup, M.D., D.O., details the multiple fractures, contusions, and tissue damage suffered by Mr. Coyote as a result of this collision. Repair of the injuries required a full bandage around the head (excluding the ears), a neck brace, and full or partial casts on all four legs. Hampered by these injuries, Mr. Coyote was nevertheless obliged to support himself. With this in mind, he purchased of Defendant as an aid to mobility one pair of Acme Rocket Skates. When he attempted to use this product, however, he became involved in an accident remarkably similar to that which occurred with the Rocket Sled. Again, Defendant sold over the counter, without caveat, a product which attached powerful jet engines (in this case, two) to inadequate vehicles, with little or no provision for passenger safety. Encumbered by his heavy casts, Mr. Coyote lost control of the Rocket Skates soon after strapping them on, and collided with a roadside billboard so violently as to leave a hole in the shape of his full silhouette. Mr. Coyote states that on occasions too numerous to list in this document he has suffered mishaps with explosives purchased of Defendant: the Acme "Little Giant" Firecracker, the Acme Self-Guided Aerial Bomb, etc. (For a full listing, see the Acme Mail Order Explosives Catalog and attached deposition, entered in evidence as Exhibit C.) Indeed, it is safe to say that not once has an explosive purchased of Defendant by Mr. Coyote performed in an expected manner. To cite just one example: At the expense of much time and personal effort, Mr. Coyote constructed around the outer rim of a butte a wooden trough beginning at the top of the butte and spiraling downward around it to some few feet above a black X painted on the desert floor. The trough was designed in such a way that a spherical explosive of the type sold by Defendant would roll easily and swiftly down to the point of detonation indicated by the X. Mr. Coyote placed a generous pile of birdseed directly on the X, and then, carrying the spherical Acme Bomb (Catalog #78-832), climbed to the top of the butte. Mr. Coyote`s prey, seeing the birdseed, approached, and Mr. Coyote proceeded to light the fuse. In an instant, the fuse burned down to the stem, causing the bomb to detonate. In addition to reducing all Mr. Coyote`s careful preparations to naught, the premature detonation of Defendant`s product resulted in the following disfigurements to Mr. Coyote: 1. Severe singeing of the hair on the head, neck, and muzzle. 2. Sooty discoloration. 3. Fracture of the left ear at the stem, causing the ear to dangle in the aftershock with a creaking noise. 4. Full or partial combustion of whiskers, producing kinking, frazzling, and ashy disintegration. 5. Radical widening of the eyes, due to brow and lid charring. We come now to the Acme Spring-Powered Shoes. The remains of a pair of these purchased by Mr. Coyote on June 23rd are Plaintiff`s Exhibit D. Selected fragments have been shipped to the metallurgical laboratories of the University of California at Santa Barbara for analysis, but to date, no explanation has been found for this product`s sudden and extreme malfunction. As advertised by Defendant, this product is simplicity itself: two wood-and-metal sandals, each attached to milled-steel springs of high tensile strength and compressed in a tightly coiled position by a cocking device with a lanyard release. Mr. Coyote believed that this product would enable him to pounce upon his prey in the initial moments of the chase, when swift reflexes are at a premium. To increase the shoes' thrusting power still further, Mr. Coyote affixed them by their bottoms to the side of a large boulder. Adjacent to the boulder was a path which Mr. Coyote`s prey was known to frequent. Mr. Coyote put his hind feet in the wood-and-metal sandals and crouched in readiness, his right forepaw holding firmly to the lanyard release. Within a short time Mr. Coyote`s prey did indeed appear on the path coming toward him. Unsuspecting, the prey stopped near Mr. Coyote, well within range of the springs at full extension. Mr. Coyote gauged the distance with care and proceeded to pull the lanyard release. At this point, Defendant`s product should have thrust Mr. Coyote forward and away from the boulder. Instead, for reasons yet unknown, the Acme Spring- Powered Shoes thrust the boulder away from Mr. Coyote. As the intended prey looked on unharmed, Mr. Coyote hung suspended in air. Then the twin springs recoiled, bringing Mr. Coyote to a violent feet-first collision with the boulder, the full weight of his head and forequarters falling upon his lower extremities. The force of this impact then caused the springs to rebound, whereupon Mr. Coyote was thrust skyward. A second recoil and collision followed. The boulder, meanwhile, which was roughly ovoid in shape, had begun to bounce down a hillside, the coiling and recoiling of the springs adding to its velocity. At each bounce, Mr. Coyote came into contact with the boulder, or the boulder cam into contact with Mr. Coyote, or both came into contact with the ground. As the grade was a long one, this process continued for some time. The sequence of collisions resulted in systemic physical damage to Mr. Coyote, vix., flattening of the cranium, sideways displacement of the tongue, reduction of length of legs and upper body, and compression of vertebrae from base of tail to head. Repetition of blows along a vertical axis produced a series of regular horizontal folds in Mr. Coyote`s body tissues-- a rare and painful condition which caused Mr. Coyote to expand upward and contract downward alternately as he walked, and to emit an off-key, accordionlike wheezing with every step. The distracting and embarrassing nature of this symptom has been a major impediment to Mr. Coyote`s pursuit of a normal social life. As the court is no doubt aware, Defendant has a virtual monopoly of manufacture and sale of goods required by Mr. Coyote's work. It is our contention that Defendant has used its market advantage to the detriment of the consumer of such specialized products as itching powder, giant kites, Burmese tiger traps, anvils, and two-hundred-foot-long rubber bands. Much as he has come to mistrust Defendant's products, Mr. Coyote has no other domestic source of supply to which to turn. One can only wonder what our trading partners in Western Europe and Japan would make of such a situation, where a giant company is allowed to victimize the consumer in the most reckless and wrongful manner over and over again. Mr. Coyote respectfully requests that the Court regard these larger economic implications and assess punitive damages in the amount of seventeen million dollars. In addition, Mr. Coyote seeks actual damages (missed meals, medical expenses, days lost from professional occupation) of one million dollars; general damages (mental suffering, injury to reputation) of twenty million dollars; and attorney's fees of seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. By awarding Mr. Coyote the full amount, this Court will censure Defendant, its directors, officers, shareholders, successors, and assigns, in the only language they understand, and reaffirm the right of the individual predator to equal protection under the law. UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHWESTERN DISTRICT OF ARIZONA _______________________________ WILE E. COYOTE, : Plaintiff : : vs. : CIVIL ACTION NO. B19294 : ACME COMPANY, : Defendant : _______________________________: OPENING STATEMENT OF ARTHUR B. FUDDLE, ESQUIRE, COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT By Mr. Fuddle: Ladies and Gentleman of the jury: the opening statement you have just heard from Mr. Schoff on behalf of the plaintiff, Wile E. Coyote, paints an incomplete picture of what occurred on the occasions when Mr. Coyote claims he was injured by ACME products. The evidence will clearly show that my client, ACME Products Corp., a Division of Dangerously Innovative Products and Patents Incorporated (or "DIPPI") is not at fault in this matter, and that any injuries sustained by the plaintiff were clearly caused by his own negligence, assumption of the risk and/or misuse of the products. Now, we have all seen the footage on television of the plaintiff withstanding various injuries which appear to be caused by ACME's products. You have seen over and over the tape of a hapless coyote being bludgeoned by a boulder as he is helplessly trapped by his ACME Spring Loaded Shoes. We have all seen the photographs taken at Warner Memorial Hospital of Mr. Coyote in a very small incubator, on life support, as his doctors attempt to straighten out the accordion-like folds from his body. We have all seen the gruesome images of the operation in which Dr. Tazmanian D. Devil whirls like a dervish, obscuring his features and creating a starry, "dust cloud" effect, while numerous limbs holding various surgical instruments swiftly repair the nerve damage to Mr. Coyote's extremities. It is normal for any human being to feel pity, horror, and even anger at such images. I want you to put those images aside for the moment, because they paint an incomplete picture. What the media has not disclosed to you, and what you will see in this courtroom, are various attempts at murder committed by the plaintiff - attempts which, fortunately, failed - while using my client's products. As the plaintiff readily admits, he is a predator, and his sole function in life is to track down and kill an innocent, highway traversing ornithoid. You see, ladies and gentleman, while the plaintiff is a natural predator, he is not a very good one. His own skills were inadequate to complete the task at hand, so he chose to seek the aid of various devices to effectuate his diabolical schemes. He looked in a catalogue, saw my client's products, and ordered them in the hope that they would assist him in killing his prey. But ladies and gentleman, ACME's products are not meant to cause intentional harm to anyone. The plaintiff has taken what were designed as amusements, toys for the young and feebleminded, and has twisted their use to his own purposes. But I digress. Let us examine the plaintiff's claims and how the evidence clearly refutes the proposition that ACME is responsible for any harm sustained by the plaintiff. Mr. Coyote states that on December 13 he received an ACME Rocked Sled, that he attempted to use said rocket sled to pursue his prey, and that, upon igniting the sled, it accelerated with "sudden and precipitate force as to stretch Mr. Coyote's forelimbs to a length of fifty feet." There are several reasons why ACME cannot be held responsible for any injuries caused by this incident. First, the warning label attached conspicuously to the inside of the left front tire of the sled clearly stated, and I quote: "WARNING: IGNITION OF THIS DEVICE AT FULL THROTTLE MAY CAUSE SUDDEN AND PRECIPITATE FORCE AS TO STRETCH USER'S FORELIMBS TO A LENGTH OF UP TO SIXTY FEET, OR MAY CAUSE DEATH." That the plaintiff suffered so little as a result of his carelessness can be attributed only to Providence. Second, Arizona law is clear on this point: a plaintiff who is found to be violating any law whose purpose is safety at the time of his injury is contributorily negligent *per se*. There is ample evidence that Mr. Coyote was violating both the laws of gravity and inertia at the time of this incident, and thus he is responsible for his own woes. I could list many more examples of Mr. Coyote's negligent conduct in connection with his use of ACME's products, but you will hear all about them as the trial goes on. You will also hear the following evidence: (1) You will hear the plaintiff himself testify that, prior to the injuries complained of in this accident, he has suffered numerous injuries. As an example, on one occasion prior to the use of any ACME product, the plaintiff cornered his prey on the edge of a rather thin precipice. Taking an ordinary saw, the plaintiff began cutting away so that the edge of the cliff, with his prey on it, would drop some 1500 feet to a jagged, rocky destruction. Instead, by some inexplicable twist of fate the edge of the cliff remained standing while the whole mountain, on which the plaintiff was standing, plummeted to the bottom of the ravine, causing numerous injuries which affect the plaintiff to this day. On another occasion, Mr. Coyote was chasing his prey and followed it off of the edge of a cliff onto thin air, not realizing until too late that his prey, a bird, could remain in the air almost indefinitely while he, a canine, could not. As a result, he fell yet again, suffering even further severe and debilitating injuries which predate the injuries complained of in this action. (2) You will also hear the testimony of Mr. Road Runner, the plaintiff's prey and the true victim in this tragedy. Mr. Runner has been forced to live a nomadic lifestyle as a result of Mr. Coyote's unwanted attention, preventing him from forming any type of long term relationships. Numerous restraining orders had no effect. Mr. Runner has also suffered numerous psychological problems as a result of Mr. Coyote's actions, including but not limited to an inability to trust anyone who provides him with bird seed, a necessary ingredient in his daily nutritional schedule. (3) You will also hear from a witness to many of the incidents alleged in plaintiff's complaint, a colorful local prospector with red hair and moustache who has been known to proclaim: "No rootin' tootin' coyote can outsmart Yosemite Sam on any day of the week!" Don't be fooled by his gruff manner and twin pearl-handled six-shooters, he's a pussycat. (4) Customer service records of defendant ACME, which we were forced to produce in this matter, clearly show that none of the complaints registered by ACME's customers nation-wide have ever resulted in criminal convictions of the officers of the corporation. (5) Finally, videotape evidence will demonstrate that plaintiff faked many of his injuries, setting out to create performances especially for a jury such as yourself. On numerous occasions he would "mug" for the camera, as if he was well aware beforehand that he was being taped. For instance, during the "Rocked Sled" incident, as his forelimbs were stretched out ahead of him and his body remained behind, he looked straight into the camera with a forlorn, tired expression, as if to say: "look at how terrible my situation is, can you guess what's going to happen to me now." This jury is too smart to fall for such petty theatrics. In summary, ladies and gentlemen, it will be clear to you from the evidence that ACME's products, if used properly, will cause only minimal injuries to a user and his loved ones. The plaintiff in this case has brought his troubles upon himself by adopting his carnivorous lifestyle. As others have so adequately uttered: "Live by the Super Slick Jet Propulsion Automated Explosive Metal-Shearing Heat-Seeking Laser-Guided Razor-Edged Boomerang, die by the Super Slick, etc." I ask you, on behalf of my client, to dismiss the plaintiff's claims against it. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 13:48:57 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:48:57 0000 Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" Message-ID: <20010312134148.BE4441998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-appyueelqrappaaywcfhubulld Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's not what it means in the context (of stoppard's play). --upas-appyueelqrappaaywcfhubulld Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 984403466:20:16371:8; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:24:26 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2117338; 12 Mar 2001 13:23 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BCD6199F6; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:23:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D91F199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:22:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14cP6U-000346-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:59:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Message-ID: Organization: Ryerson Polytechnic University References: <20010309085548.84548199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:57:51 GMT >>>>> "forsyth" == forsyth writes: forsyth> [...] interpretation of words can indeed be non-trivial. forsyth> Cutlery. *Ahem* Telling someone to fork-off is definitely rude. --upas-appyueelqrappaaywcfhubulld-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 18:43:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:43:05 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Is rio similar to NeWS? Message-ID: <20010312134238.62198199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Is there any similarity between Sun's NeWS to Plan9's rio in it's approach? I guess anything that is NOT "X" is interesting to me. -Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 13:42:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:42:01 0000 Subject: [9fans] SIS 530 Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pltisszusqdddfqlptckqmfywv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It will be necessary to write a driver for it. --upas-pltisszusqdddfqlptckqmfywv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by cpu; Mon Mar 12 13:23:41 GMT 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8724199E9; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CBC5199E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14cP6V-00034I-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:59:03 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Luiz Felipe R. B. Toledo" Message-ID: <3AABF145.431A3F3F@terra.com.br> Organization: UHS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: [9fans] SIS 530 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:58:37 GMT --------------BAE16E921F360479C55221E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How Can I setup a SIS 530 vga card? -- Luiz Felipe R. B. Toledo psych0@terra.com.br http://uhs.n3.net --------------BAE16E921F360479C55221E6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How Can I setup a SIS 530 vga card?
  
-- 

Luiz Felipe R. B. Toledo
psych0@terra.com.br
http://uhs.n3.net
  --------------BAE16E921F360479C55221E6-- --upas-pltisszusqdddfqlptckqmfywv-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 13:44:12 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:44:12 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Is rio similar to NeWS? Message-ID: <20010312134415.CF05919A0C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Is there any similarity between Sun's NeWS to Plan9's rio in it's approach? Not that I can see. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 14:31:22 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:31:22 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Luis Fernandes wrote: > Telling someone to fork-off is definitely rude. That would depend on the instigating circumstances. ____________________________________________________________________ Legislators and Judges are the pimps of modern American society. Police, lawyers, and reporters are their whores. The people are their 'John's'. Democracy is dead. Copyright 2001 All Rights Reserved The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 15:49:41 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:49:41 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. Message-ID: <20010312154951.5F453199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Mon Mar 12 08:27:55 EST 2001, DAGwyn@null.net wrote: > jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > Secondly, the SB16 doesn't show up in the iomap output because the > > driver doesn't call the routine to register the space it uses. > > That's a bug we should fix but shouldn't affect the operation of the > > driver (assuming there is no actual clash with another device). > > Hm, with a PCI-only motherboard, which is about all one can buy > these days, the nearest thing to a Plan 9-suppored SoundBlaster > seems to be the SoundBlaster-16 PCI, which like everything else > for PCI these days is plug-and-play. Is there some way to make > this work on Plan 9? > > Also, does the 3C905C-TM (PCI) work a a Plan 9 Ethernet card? > > It's getting harder and harder to build an ISA PC.. If it is truly an SB-16 compatible then it's a matter of adding a handful of lines to scan the PCI bus for the card to make it work. But it can't really be compatible because the DMA must be completely different. The 3Com driver in the distribution requires some small fixes to work with the 905C, Jean Mehat has them. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 21:11:30 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:11:30 -0500 Subject: [9fans] off-wall idea, file server and SAN Message-ID: <20010312211208.82B45199F2@mail.cse.psu.edu> i'm not entirely sure i understand your question, but here's a pass at a reply anyway. if i'm off the mark entirely, just ignore me. a "proper" plan 9 network consists of a seperate file server and cpu server (maybe more, and probably some terminals). the file server is designed to do one thing: serve the cpu servers (and terminals) their file systems. any additional services, like dhcp/bootp and tftp, also useful for booting, are provided by cpu servers. in that spirit, i'd expect the "Plan 9 answer" to your question to be that you'd implement whatever other file services you're looking for on the cpu servers. you'd then run that service on the cpu server (most likely in /bin/cpurc), and have clients look to that cpu server for their service. as an example, Plan 9 ships with a NFS server (and associated utilities) that allow you to point Unix boxes (or pc's with NFS clients) at a Plan 9 cpu server for file service. i've run heterogeneous network with Plan 9 as the core and various different Unix flavors talking to it (making backups, typically the worst part of any Unix admin's job, a non-issue). it worked well, but not perfectly (see below). but if you're looking for a protocol that's not already there, the nfs server may be a good place to start. i have a vauge recolection of someone working on an SMB server, but i've never had a need for it and don't really remember if it ever saw the light of day. anyone? other protocols, like Appletalk or whatever you need, could be written in the same way: as user-level code for a plan 9 cpu server. much easier than builing it into the file server. note that there are flaws to the approach: you have to translate the requests from NFS (or whatever) into 9p, which takes some time. for casual use, it's not such a big deal, but it gets notably slow with heavy load. also, the authentication schemes don't match, which can be awkward. the Plan 9 nfs server provides a special hack for doing netkey authentication, but it's definatly a hack. the hack can be automated into the login process or something, but it's still ugly. but it does work. and i think the general feeling (and certainly mine) is that these flaws are well worth it to avoid including various protocols (and thus additional complexity and posability for bugs) into the file server, the part of the network where stability is most key. note also that i know nothing about the "new" file server being developed - it may make all these points false or obsolete, i don't know. this is based on the current file server. the new 9p may also address some of the authentication issues. again, i don't know. -α. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 12 21:30:42 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:30:42 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. References: <20010311171242.970571998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AAD4002.A76D200D@san.rr.com> jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > audio0=type=sb16 port=0x220 irq=5 dma=1 I'll stick these in and see what color smoke comes out. > Secondly, the SB16 doesn't show up in the iomap output because the driver > doesn't call the routine to register the space it uses. That's a bug we > should fix but shouldn't affect the operation of the driver (assuming there > is no actual clash with another device). sounds like a 1-liner. > --jim thanks much, --eric PS: what's weird though is why a failed SB16 configuration should frob up IP checksumming... that one is extremely vexing. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 13 10:02:45 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Julian Back) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:02:45 GMT Subject: [9fans] Weird bug. References: <20010312154951.5F453199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: In article <20010312154951.5F453199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu>, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com () wrote: > On Mon Mar 12 08:27:55 EST 2001, DAGwyn@null.net wrote: > > jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > > Secondly, the SB16 doesn't show up in the iomap output because the > > > driver doesn't call the routine to register the space it uses. > > > That's a bug we should fix but shouldn't affect the operation of the > > > driver (assuming there is no actual clash with another device). > > > > Hm, with a PCI-only motherboard, which is about all one can buy > > these days, the nearest thing to a Plan 9-suppored SoundBlaster > > seems to be the SoundBlaster-16 PCI, which like everything else > > for PCI these days is plug-and-play. Is there some way to make > > this work on Plan 9? > > > > Also, does the 3C905C-TM (PCI) work a a Plan 9 Ethernet card? > > > > It's getting harder and harder to build an ISA PC.. > > If it is truly an SB-16 compatible then it's a matter of adding a > handful of lines to scan the PCI bus for the card to make it work. > But it can't really be compatible because the DMA must be completely > different. AFAIK the SB16-PCI is not SB16 compatible. It's based on an ES1371 chip. The Linux driver for this card is completely different to the SB16 ISA driver. Julian > > The 3Com driver in the distribution requires some small fixes > to work with the 905C, Jean Mehat has them. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 13 10:40:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:40:32 GMT Subject: [9fans] plan9 iPAQ References: <20010205012102.14C6C199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 01:37:20 GMT, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: >Give me another few >weeks and if I haven't put the port out there, complain. Not a complaint, but an ever so slight nudge. Content to wait. Curious about the implementation choices, wrt 3-button mice versus touch-screen. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 00:24:17 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:24:17 -1700 Subject: [9fans] Stock Ready To Move Up ! 16641 Message-ID: <0000169e45f9$000057aa$00004101@usa.net> STOCK ALERT!

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 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 02:34:15 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Sam Ducksworth) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:34:15 -0800 Subject: [9fans] plan9 iPAQ References: <20010205012102.14C6C199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AAED8A7.57520752@ducksworth.com> if you are thinking of getting one you may want to hold off a month or 2. rumor has it they are going to bump the memory up from 32M to 64M. but its like anything else, as soon as you get 'X' they come out with 'Y' nw@metadesign.com.au wrote: > > On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 01:37:20 GMT, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > >Give me another few > >weeks and if I haven't put the port out there, complain. > > Not a complaint, but an ever so slight nudge. Content to wait. Curious > about the implementation choices, wrt 3-button mice versus > touch-screen. -- -sam From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 13:44:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Brown) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:44:07 -0600 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems Message-ID: <3AAF75A7.C34B6BC4@mailbag.com> Help. My fileserver hangs after I type "end" to the initial fsconfig session. I have tried 9pfs with and without Eric Dorman's IDE modifications. And, I have tried several fsconfig incantations. Oddly, Plan9 never gets the CPU right. It reports the CPU as a 736Mhz(and on occasion 735Mhz) GenuineIntel Pentium III/Xeon cpuID: AX 0x0686 DX 0x383f9ff But, My machine: Asus CUSL2-C motherboard with 733Mhz Celeron 256 MB Ram Tekram DC-390U2W SCSI controller 18Gb Quantum Atlas drive (SCSI) 30Gb Western Digital (IDE) Speedstar A50 AGP vga card Intel 8255x 10/100 PCI ethernet also tried Netgear FA310TX PCI ethernet card plan9.ini: ether0=type=i82557 scsi0=type=ncr53c8xx nvr=fd!0!plan9.nvr bootfile=fd0!dos!9pcfs The fsconfig incantation: service mini config w0 filsys main cp(w0)0.12fp(h0)0.85 filsys dump o filsys tdta p(w0)12.88 filsys sdta p(h0)85.15 ream main ream tdta ream sdta ip 140.140.140.6 ipmask 255.255.0.0 ipauth 140.140.140.5 end Is there something dumb I am doing here? (The ip is bogus, but the network is strictly internal) Thanks in advance for any pointers. -ed From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 14:15:23 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:15:23 0000 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems Message-ID: <20010314140806.60455199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> does the file server print anything at all after you type `end'? if so, what are the last few lines? normally it burbles a bit before it does anything. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 14:07:41 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Brown) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:07:41 -0600 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems References: <20010314140806.60455199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AAF7B2D.61766BBB@mailbag.com> It does not print anything at all. forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > > does the file server print anything at all after you type `end'? > if so, what are the last few lines? > normally it burbles a bit before it does anything. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 14:18:08 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Martin Harriss) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:18:08 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems References: <3AAF75A7.C34B6BC4@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <3AAF7DA0.D64EA04D@princeton.edu> After you type "end," the file server goes out and tries to access the disks. Are you maybe having SCSI cable/terminator problems? Can the BIOS see all the disks? (both SCSI and IDE) Martin Ed Brown wrote: > > Help. My fileserver hangs after I type > "end" to the initial fsconfig session. [ etc. ] From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 14:31:17 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:31:17 0000 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems Message-ID: <20010314142359.CD96A199FC@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xnusdgeigvqhjljnalfkdtqojw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the next thing after arginit() is userinit(touser...) which creates a process that fairly quickly prints `sysinit'. normally i'd expect it to get at least that far regardless of configuration. i'd suspect it has messed up the memory calculations. how much memory does the kernel claim the system has got? --upas-xnusdgeigvqhjljnalfkdtqojw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 984579125:20:20760:9; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:12:05 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2020680; 14 Mar 2001 14:11 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D8BF199FF; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:11:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailbag.com (glacier.binc.net [205.173.176.10]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49D62199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:10:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailbag.com (cb165944-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.22.215.100]) by mailbag.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2EEAdj11180 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:10:40 -0600 Message-ID: <3AAF7B2D.61766BBB@mailbag.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Subject: Re: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems References: <20010314140806.60455199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:07:41 -0600 It does not print anything at all. forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > > does the file server print anything at all after you type `end'? > if so, what are the last few lines? > normally it burbles a bit before it does anything. --upas-xnusdgeigvqhjljnalfkdtqojw-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 14:35:40 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Brown) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:35:40 -0600 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems References: <3AAF75A7.C34B6BC4@mailbag.com> <3AAF7DA0.D64EA04D@princeton.edu> Message-ID: <3AAF81BC.1D6E542F@mailbag.com> I assembled this machine last week. As part of testing it I loaded the basic plan9 setup on its ide drive booted it up, tested its network card and checked its scsi drive by trying: disk/mbr /dev/sd00/data and then looking at it with disk/fdisk /dev/sd00/data I had no problem. I have since examined the internal scsi LVD/SE terminator that came with the Tekram card. I located it at the end of the ribbon cable after the drive. It's on there solid. The Tekram card is suppose to provide the termination for the other end (I only have the one scsi drive on the chain) The Tekram bios can verify the disk and I have done a low level format as well. It appears to be properly terminated and available. Martin Harriss wrote: > > After you type "end," the file server goes out and tries to access the > disks. Are you maybe having SCSI cable/terminator problems? Can the > BIOS see all the disks? (both SCSI and IDE) > > Martin > > Ed Brown wrote: > > > > Help. My fileserver hangs after I type > > "end" to the initial fsconfig session. > > [ etc. ] From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 14 14:52:08 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Brown) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:52:08 -0600 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems References: <20010314142359.CD96A199FC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AAF8598.6016F112@mailbag.com> The kernels states: iobufinit 56986 buffers; 7127 hashes mem left = 22368255 out of = 268435456 which if I am reading correctly is exactly 256Mb. When the memory test ends just before the tekram card bios is loaded the system shows 262144K memory (also 256Mb). forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > > the next thing after arginit() is userinit(touser...) which creates > a process that fairly quickly prints `sysinit'. normally i'd expect > it to get at least that far regardless of configuration. > > i'd suspect it has messed up the memory calculations. > how much memory does the kernel claim the system has got? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:07:41 -0600 > Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin > Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans > To: cse.psu.edu!9fans > References: <20010314140806.60455199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> > > It does not print anything at all. > > forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > > > > does the file server print anything at all after you type `end'? > > if so, what are the last few lines? > > normally it burbles a bit before it does anything. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 02:44:09 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:44:09 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems References: <20010314140806.60455199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> <3AAF7B2D.61766BBB@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <3AB02C79.A5EC3BC3@san.rr.com> Ed Brown wrote: > It does not print anything at all. > forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > > > > does the file server print anything at all after you type `end'? > > if so, what are the last few lines? > > normally it burbles a bit before it does anything. Another thing to check would be to use a fsconfig that doesn't have IDE disks specified. I'm *pretty*sure* that stuff gets printed (like "Devinit D15" and the like) *before* the ide driver tries to initialize it's disks, but it's been awhile since I've done that. If your fs still hangs even if ide's aren't specified then the trouble is something more fundamental than disks.. I think it wiggles IDE's first before other stuff. Maybe I'll try it tonite and trace the path.. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 05:01:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Steve Kotsopoulos) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:01:00 -0500 Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Message-ID: <200103150501.AAA00749@smtp.fywss.com> The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 05:30:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:30:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ In-Reply-To: <200103150501.AAA00749@smtp.fywss.com> Message-ID: Don't forget Hangar 18 http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 We're about ready to start putting up servers and a sharable file system. We've got at least two participants with 24*7 ISDN and potentialy two higher speed connections, but I'm not done working the details. It'll only be a couple of process servers and about 80G of file space but it's a start. We don't intend to charge $$$ for participation or have any sort of silly OS limitation rules. Windows, Linux, Plan 9, Inferno, whatever (Amiga ParNet?). We're hoping that folks with 24*7 resources will share either a processor or file space. I'm not sure how we're going to handle transient participants (the vast majority I suppose). Somehow they need to provide some sort of 'service'... Suggestions? ____________________________________________________________________ If the law is based on precedence, why is the Constitution not the final precedence since it's the primary authority? The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Steve Kotsopoulos wrote: > The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. > It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq > > The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url > http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 05:19:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Brown) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:19:32 -0600 Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems References: <20010314140806.60455199E8@mail.cse.psu.edu> <3AAF7B2D.61766BBB@mailbag.com> <3AB02C79.A5EC3BC3@san.rr.com> Message-ID: <3AB050E4.F3FD51F6@mailbag.com> Eric Dorman wrote: > Another thing to check would be to use a fsconfig that doesn't > have IDE disks specified... After first overcoming a problem with wwvtime(), thanks to Charles Forsyth, I tried leaving the ide drive out. Its absence doesn't seem to get me any further. Although now with a fake_wwvtime I am hanging a little later at: current fs is "main" Forsyth suggested copying the clone directory in /sys/src/fs to a staging directory and compile there. The clone directory has a fakewwv(). With new 9pcfs variations my fsconfig is now returning ide and scsi info (most off the screen). I have added print statements to determine what is causing the hang up, but the print statements come back in an unexpected sequence. Any pointers/ideas? Am I any closer to having a file server? -ed From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 09:07:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jean Mehat) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:07:38 +0100 (MET) Subject: [9fans] Fileserver setup problems Message-ID: <200103150907.KAA25356@colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr> > If your fs still hangs even if ide's > aren't specified then the trouble is something more fundamental > than disks I have seen this (9pcdisk, 9pccpudisk working ok, 9fs hanging very soon after config) with a cuv4xm motherboard. CHanging the motherboard solved the problem. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 17:50:06 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:50:06 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Acme clock Message-ID: <20010315115409.0A4B0199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> 85 percent of rio is usually dedicated to Acme on my desktop. I use Acme for just about everything. Keeping track of time is sometimes an obsession with me so I also have the analog clock sitting at the top left of the screen. The rest of the space is mostly wasted. It occurred to me it might be nice if there was a digital clock embedded in Acme. Has anyone done it? Would it be a good feature or would it destroy the simplicity of Acme? -Bill "tic...tic...tic... 12:49:46" From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 12:51:06 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 07:51:06 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Acme clock Message-ID: <20010315125107.0CDA1199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> #!/bin/rc cd /mnt/acme/new while (date | sed 's/.* (..:..).*/name ...\1.../' >ctl) sleep 60 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 12:18:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Rome Huang) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:18:49 GMT Subject: [9fans] Any Japanese IME for Inferno? Message-ID: <98qbkl$1gk@netnews.hinet.net> Is there any Japanese IME for Inferno? We need the features similar to FreeWNN(www.freewnn.org) or mobilewnn. If the porting is feasible and price is reasonable, we could pay to port it. Best Regards, Rome. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 15 21:47:31 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:47:31 -0500 Subject: [9fans] hardware Message-ID: <20010315214736.90C8C199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> my plan 9 terminal just died (hardware failure), so i'm looking for a new one. i'm looking at AMD chips and Asus motherboards. and motherboards i should avoid? any come particularly recomended? anybody used plan 9 with DDR? -α. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 00:01:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William K. Josephson) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:01:38 -0500 Subject: [9fans] hardware In-Reply-To: <20010315214736.90C8C199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from anothy@cosym.net on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:47:31PM -0500 References: <20010315214736.90C8C199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010315190138.B18091@honk.eecs.harvard.edu> On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:47:31PM -0500, anothy@cosym.net wrote: > my plan 9 terminal just died (hardware failure), so i'm > looking for a new one. i'm looking at AMD chips and Asus > motherboards. and motherboards i should avoid? any come > particularly recomended? anybody used plan 9 with DDR? I've run 3rd edition on an Asus KT-7A with a 1GHz Athlon with no problems. I haven't run it very hard yet, though, as I don't have proper support for my video hardware (and what hardware I do have is buggy). I guess I need to get a manual out of 3DLabs and find some time to hack up a driver to support the SGI flatpanel/VX1-1600SW card. -WJ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 01:22:23 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:22:23 -0500 Subject: [9fans] hardware Message-ID: <20010316012236.42355199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Thu Mar 15 19:02:24 EST 2001, wkj@eecs.harvard.edu wrote: > On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:47:31PM -0500, anothy@cosym.net wrote: > > my plan 9 terminal just died (hardware failure), so i'm > > looking for a new one. i'm looking at AMD chips and Asus > > motherboards. and motherboards i should avoid? any come > > particularly recomended? anybody used plan 9 with DDR? > > I've run 3rd edition on an Asus KT-7A with a 1GHz Athlon with no > problems. I haven't run it very hard yet, though, as I don't have > proper support for my video hardware (and what hardware I do have is > buggy). I guess I need to get a manual out of 3DLabs and find some > time to hack up a driver to support the SGI flatpanel/VX1-1600SW card. > > -WJ I have an SGI flatpanel/VX1-1600SW card combo here awaiting your driver... Thanks. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 01:31:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William K. Josephson) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:31:00 -0500 Subject: [9fans] hardware In-Reply-To: <20010316012236.42355199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 08:22:23PM -0500 References: <20010316012236.42355199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010315203100.C11867@honk.eecs.harvard.edu> On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 08:22:23PM -0500, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > I have an SGI flatpanel/VX1-1600SW card combo here awaiting your driver... Heh. Russ has a thesis and I have a compiler, so it seems it will probably be at least May before I have time... -WJ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 01:48:09 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:48:09 -0500 Subject: [9fans] hardware Message-ID: <20010316014831.213E0199E6@mail.cse.psu.edu> I haven't got my copy with me, but there's advice about AMD processors and various motherboards in PC Hardware in a Nutshell, by Robert Bruce Thompson and Barbara Fritchman Thompson, O'Reilly & Associates, published October, 2000, ISBN 1-56592-599-8. It's 500 pages and I find it to be much better than the usual run-of-the-mill PC Hardware Bibles that run at least 1,200 pages yet don't say very much on the topics I care about. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 09:47:17 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Christopher Nielsen) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:47:17 -0800 Subject: [9fans] GigE drivers Message-ID: <20010316014716.A35840@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Is anyone working on gigabit ethernet drivers? I have the docs for the 3Com (formerly Alteon) and SysKonnect NICs. If I were to write a driver for multiple platforms, where is the best place to put the source? I think /sys/src/9/port, but I mostly see driver source in the MD directories of the tree. -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie cnielsen@pobox.com "Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." --unknown From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 13:11:04 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:11:04 -0500 Subject: [9fans] GigE drivers Message-ID: <20010316131106.96B55199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Fri Mar 16 04:49:24 EST 2001, cnielsen@pobox.com wrote: > Is anyone working on gigabit ethernet drivers? > > I have the docs for the 3Com (formerly Alteon) and > SysKonnect NICs. > > If I were to write a driver for multiple platforms, > where is the best place to put the source? I think > /sys/src/9/port, but I mostly see driver source in > the MD directories of the tree. > We have drivers for the Netgear GA620/GA620T (Alteon chip, untried on the 3Com) and for the Intel RS-82543GC chip as found on the Intel PRO/1000[FT] Server Adapter (the older non-[FT] cards use the 82542 (LSI L2A1157) chip). A driver for the Syskonnect cards would be nice, that would cover all the major players, although the way Intel are agressively pricing their cards there may be only one player in the future. The drivers are currently in the MD directories. --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 13:27:03 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:03 0000 Subject: [9fans] GigE drivers Message-ID: <20010316131943.065BF199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> how do the various cards perform? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 16 13:30:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:30:00 -0500 Subject: [9fans] GigE drivers Message-ID: <20010316133002.592EA199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Fri Mar 16 08:20:23 EST 2001, forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > how do the various cards perform? > Adequately, but not greatly. Both cards have lots of tuning options which can be played with but i haven't got round to that (the Lucent Managed Firewall people get very impressive results with a tuned version of the Intel driver). Also, there are other bottlenecks in the IP stack need to be addressed. I think the Alteon-based cards are near the end of their life, now that 3Com has bought the NIC chip part of Alteon information is drying up and I've no idea about any future products. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 17 00:50:25 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Christopher Nielsen) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:50:25 -0800 Subject: [9fans] GigE drivers In-Reply-To: <20010316131106.96B55199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:11:04AM -0500 References: <20010316131106.96B55199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010316165025.A37288@cassie.foobarbaz.net> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:11:04AM -0500, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > We have drivers for the Netgear GA620/GA620T (Alteon chip, > untried on the 3Com) and for the Intel RS-82543GC chip > as found on the Intel PRO/1000[FT] Server Adapter (the older > non-[FT] cards use the 82542 (LSI L2A1157) chip). Ah cool! Are they releaseable? Intel has been a real pain about docs for anything unless you sign an NDA, making the source unreleaseable. Now that 3Com has purchased the Alteon NIC biz, they're developing the Tigon III chips for the newer cards, for which they are not releasing docs. If I recall correctly, Broadcom is making the new chips for 3Com. > A driver for the Syskonnect cards would be nice, that would > cover all the major players, although the way Intel are agressively > pricing their cards there may be only one player in the future. Ok. I'll look into a driver for those cards, then. -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie cnielsen@pobox.com "Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." --unknown From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 17 16:10:35 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:10:35 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Y2K Message-ID: <20010317161038.4F199199EA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sharp-eyed Ellis noticed that the "printed" date on man pages was wrong. It's due to a mistake in a fix to a fix to get Y2K right in troff. Here's the fix to the mistake: change the line in /sys/lib/tmac/tmac.an from .nr yD (\\n(yr%100 to .nr yD (\n(yr%100 The extra backslash confused troff, causing it to leave yD unset, which coincidentally gives it the value 0, which is why we thought the code was right last year. I am sure this is not the last Y2K bug in troff and its relatives. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 17 17:32:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Wishart) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:32:01 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Y2K Message-ID: <200103171732.JAA15436@pyramid.cs.unr.edu> I note that predefined number register yr in 2nd edition troff has value 101. Has this been fixed in 3rd edition? ed From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 18 19:43:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:43:07 -0500 Subject: [9fans] ufs support Message-ID: <20010318134700.6826E1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Any way I can mount a FreeBSD or Linux partition? It would be handy not having to reboot over. Or maybe I should just increase my Plan9 space and move files over (Is there a FAQ somewhere telling how to do this?). Here is my current set up. term% disk/fdisk /dev/sdC0/data mbr 0 63 (63 sectors, 31.25 KB) EMPTY * p1 63 556416 (556353 sectors, 271.67 MB) FATHUGE empty 556416 991872 (435456 sectors, 212.64 MB) p2 991872 2016000 (1024128 sectors, 500.09 MB) PLAN9 p3 2016000 6306048 (4290048 sectors, 2.04 GB) BSD386 >>> q -Bill From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 18 15:01:02 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:01:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] ufs support In-Reply-To: <20010318134700.6826E1998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, William Staniewicz wrote: > Any way I can mount a FreeBSD or Linux partition? It would be handy > not having to reboot over. Or maybe I should just increase my Plan9 > space and move files over (Is there a FAQ somewhere telling how to do > this?). Search around for ext2srv. Changes needed to teach it dealing with UFS shouldn't be that large - the worst part is fragment reallocation on write, the rest can be lifted almost as-is from ext2 variant. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 18 19:02:20 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:02:20 -0500 Subject: [9fans] ufs support Message-ID: <200103181902.OAA20846@smtp3.fas.harvard.edu> actually, it turns out there's an ext2fs in /sys/lib/pcdist/cmd/ext2 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 08:51:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Quinn Dunkan) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:51:32 -0800 Subject: [9fans] fs layout and libc questions Message-ID: <200103190851.AAA00358@tammananny.tiger> What's the difference between /lib and /sys/lib ? Supposing I have (machine- independent) language libraries... where do they go? The natural approach for me would be to do disk/kfscmd 'create /lib/foo sys sys d' bind -cb $home/lib/foo /lib/foo for the language "foo", but this requires that I have write to /lib on the file server (to create the directory to union). Of course, I do for kfs, but in a "real" plan9 setup, I possibly wouldn't. I guess in that instance, I could bind my whole $home/lib, but that seems a bit messy. Anyway, is this the "correct" approach? Somewhat silly question: getenv() doesn't do any checking on the name it is passed. So by passing a string with '..' one can read (or write to, with putenv) any file on the system, or by passing a string greater than 194 characters, get a buffer overrun. The question is, is this a design decision? I.e. "only the client knows if an env var name can be trusted, so let's not complicate the libc with checks, but let the client do them". I notice rc goes straight to #e, and uses snprint(), so this doesn't affect it (should it go directly to #e? is there any reason to mount another environment?). My inclination would be to have the libc getenv() and putenv() check their args. It costs almost nothing, and the less potentially dangerous things the client has to think about checking the better. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 09:43:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Michael Collins) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:43:00 GMT Subject: [9fans] Installing Plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS Laptop References: , <3A75A175.BBC627FF@FWS.Gov> Message-ID: <3AB4DEAA.5040000@austin.rr.com> I would like to get my ct6900 up. It has pretty much the same specs. I am very new at p9 though. I will start trying things. Thanks for the impetus. All I can do is blow the video out, right? Mark C. Otto wrote: > I am trying to install plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS. I had problems > with aux/vga and was left in rc. I suspect that the problem is in with the > CT65555 video chip. I tried adding > -- Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com Admiral Penguinista Navy International This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org Speech Enabled Chat http://phphreaks.net/bxspeak/ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 14:24:30 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:24:30 -0500 Subject: [9fans] fs layout and libc questions Message-ID: <20010319142433.23927199F0@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-eqbewgqhuqwmnoiaagtpnlztxm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We've been way to sloppy with /lib and /sys/lib to the point of the distinction being almost meaningless. In the case of libraries that are architecture dependent, the general idea is to link them under their architecture's tree. In the manner of $home/bin/{386, mips, ...} you can have a $home/lib/{386, mips, ...} and in your lib/profile: for(i in 386 mips ...) bind -b $home/lib/$i /$i/lib That way they'll be in the right place for {8, v, ...}l to find them. Of course, if you put pragma's in the .h's for the libraries that point to the libraries, you don't have to link them anywhere in particular. However, the above might make life easier for you in the long run since you can override just by binding. If the libraries are also language dependent and the linking convetions are different than those of C (or the names clash), you can have a second level just as we do in /386/lib/alef, e.g.: for(i in 386 mips ...) bind -b $home/lib/$i/alef /$i/lib/alef In the end, the only important thing is that the pragma's in the include files point to the right place: #pragma lib "alef/libxyzzy.a" The path is relative to /$objtype/lib. --upas-eqbewgqhuqwmnoiaagtpnlztxm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Mar 19 01:40:51 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Mar 19 01:40:50 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7F2D199ED; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:40:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from tammananny.tiger (PPP10.calarts.edu [156.3.140.240]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5E691998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:38:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from tammananny.tiger (quinn@tammananny.tiger [127.0.0.1]) by tammananny.tiger (8.9.3/) with ESMTP id AAA00358 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:51:32 -0800 Message-Id: <200103190851.AAA00358@tammananny.tiger> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Quinn Dunkan Subject: [9fans] fs layout and libc questions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:51:32 -0800 What's the difference between /lib and /sys/lib ? Supposing I have (machine- independent) language libraries... where do they go? The natural approach for me would be to do disk/kfscmd 'create /lib/foo sys sys d' bind -cb $home/lib/foo /lib/foo for the language "foo", but this requires that I have write to /lib on the file server (to create the directory to union). Of course, I do for kfs, but in a "real" plan9 setup, I possibly wouldn't. I guess in that instance, I could bind my whole $home/lib, but that seems a bit messy. Anyway, is this the "correct" approach? Somewhat silly question: getenv() doesn't do any checking on the name it is passed. So by passing a string with '..' one can read (or write to, with putenv) any file on the system, or by passing a string greater than 194 characters, get a buffer overrun. The question is, is this a design decision? I.e. "only the client knows if an env var name can be trusted, so let's not complicate the libc with checks, but let the client do them". I notice rc goes straight to #e, and uses snprint(), so this doesn't affect it (should it go directly to #e? is there any reason to mount another environment?). My inclination would be to have the libc getenv() and putenv() check their args. It costs almost nothing, and the less potentially dangerous things the client has to think about checking the better. --upas-eqbewgqhuqwmnoiaagtpnlztxm-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 14:40:37 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:40:37 -0500 Subject: [9fans] getenv/putenv Message-ID: <20010319144040.8224B199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> My inclination would be to have the libc getenv() and putenv() check their args. It costs almost nothing, and the less potentially dangerous things the client has to think about checking the better. I think you're right. We not as env crazy as Unix is so the risk is lower but not nonexistant of somehow fooling a program to write something, so why have it at all. Anyone else want to comment? If not, I'll just check for '/' in getenv/putenv names and punt if I find one. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 15:21:20 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lucio De Re) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:21:20 +0200 Subject: [9fans] getenv/putenv In-Reply-To: <20010319144040.8224B199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:40:37AM -0500 References: <20010319144040.8224B199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010319172118.U10659@cackle.proxima.alt.za> On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:40:37AM -0500, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > I think you're right. We not as env crazy as Unix is so the risk is > lower but not nonexistant of somehow fooling a program to write > something, so why have it at all. Anyone else want to comment? > If not, I'll just check for '/' in getenv/putenv names and punt > if I find one. Maybe unrelated to the above, and maybe not altogether, although I can't quite make the connection (been up too long :-) Been thinking that there ought to be an API/9P function to "drop" irrecoverably parts of the user namespace. Make them go away in a particular context. You can always mount a lower branch and make the rest go, if you want to. Maybe even keep the mount point but make its contents invisible, or whatever (this last could be done as things stand now, in a practical sense, bit it is reversible, which I think should not be the case). Of course, such a feature may already exist and I'm just displaying my ignorance, but I have thought about it and nothing I've looked at seemed to do the trick. If on the other hand you Bell Labs folks have looked at it already and discarded it as possibility, I would be curious to know why. From my point of view it is an interesting way to provide a degree of security and protection, specially against trojan horses. ++L From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 15:58:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:58:46 -0500 Subject: [9fans] getenv/putenv Message-ID: <20010319155938.6CA0A19A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ksjfabvhusiqnzmfgoovdjvuvn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is rfork(RFNOMNT) which forbids a process (or its later children) from walking (therfore binding) anything in # except #{|decp} and from mounting anything period. If you take a subtree of the file system, bind onto it what you want, bind the subtree onto '#/', and then rfork(RFNOMNT), you effectively sandbox a process. If we also disallowed unmounts, we could remove the restriction of a subtree. It would be nice if someone was willing to experiment a bit on what constituted a generally useful (and hopefully minimal) set of controls. We also have the special group 'noworld' on the file server. Anyone in that group has no world (perm & 7) permissions to access files on the file server. It's an attempt from the file server side of protecting accidental disclosure to files that certain groups of users shouldn't see. For example, we have a bunch of astronomers that use our systems from the outside. They have signed no agreements with Lucent and are prohibited from seeing stuff belonging to anyone else here lest an accident occur. Their telnet, ftp, and ssh sessions are started in an RFNOMNT sandbox that binds in only the main file server and the outside network. They are also members of noworld so that they can't see files other than from their own group (and themselves). I consider it a failed experiment mostly because it didn't last long enough. It did prove that RFNOMNT by itself wasn't enough. We couldn't just give them access to /bin and a few other directories because we just don't control well enough what goes into them. Instead we had to create a complete subworld that included the /bin, /lib, etc. files that they needed. The 'no world' was just a second protection in case our name space failed (because of bad implementations). It was a reasonable precaution since it was very possible to walk out of your circumscibed namespace before rob's last rewrite (and probably still is via some bug or other). --upas-ksjfabvhusiqnzmfgoovdjvuvn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Mar 19 10:23:24 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Mar 19 10:23:22 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6C1819A02; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:23:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (unknown [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69F8619A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:22:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA19429 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:21:49 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] getenv/putenv Message-ID: <20010319172118.U10659@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20010319144040.8224B199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20010319144040.8224B199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>; from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:40:37AM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:21:20 +0200 On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:40:37AM -0500, presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > I think you're right. We not as env crazy as Unix is so the risk is > lower but not nonexistant of somehow fooling a program to write > something, so why have it at all. Anyone else want to comment? > If not, I'll just check for '/' in getenv/putenv names and punt > if I find one. Maybe unrelated to the above, and maybe not altogether, although I can't quite make the connection (been up too long :-) Been thinking that there ought to be an API/9P function to "drop" irrecoverably parts of the user namespace. Make them go away in a particular context. You can always mount a lower branch and make the rest go, if you want to. Maybe even keep the mount point but make its contents invisible, or whatever (this last could be done as things stand now, in a practical sense, bit it is reversible, which I think should not be the case). Of course, such a feature may already exist and I'm just displaying my ignorance, but I have thought about it and nothing I've looked at seemed to do the trick. If on the other hand you Bell Labs folks have looked at it already and discarded it as possibility, I would be curious to know why. From my point of view it is an interesting way to provide a degree of security and protection, specially against trojan horses. ++L --upas-ksjfabvhusiqnzmfgoovdjvuvn-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 16:48:43 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:48:43 -0500 Subject: [9fans] fs layout and libc questions Message-ID: <20010319164847.F1E7A199F8@mail.cse.psu.edu> The original ideas for /lib and /sys/lib were that /lib would be a "library" of general stuff, while /sys/lib would be things that directly supported a particular application. Dictionaries are in /lib, troff macros in /sys/lib. The distinction is hard to draw sometimes and wasn't followed a lot of the time, but it is still useful. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 20:41:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Brown) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:41:11 -0600 Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 Message-ID: <3AB66EE7.3E952A50@mailbag.com> Changing my fileserver motherboard from an ASUS CUSL2 to an ABIT VL6 fixed all of my fileserver installation blues...almost Word of warning...(this may be a bug or just dumb on my part) I initially used an ide drive with a partition for a pseudo worm and an uncached file system. That is, config w0 filsys main cp(w0)0.12fp(h0)0.85 filsys dump o filsys tdta p(w0)12.88 filsys sdta p(h0)85.15 My reasoning was I needed as much space for large temporary files as possible. A long running program that accessed the ide file system sdta during a dump caused the file server to throw a hissy. After that point I received phase errors on any files on sdta. Doing a check on sdta from the file server caused it to reboot. I could get the file server to reboot from a terminal by doing an ls on the root of sdta or an ls in the first dump of main. Nonetheless I have changed my file server configuration to config w0 filsys main cp(w0)0.12fh0 filsys dump o filsys tdta p(w0)12.88 And have had no troubles since... Moral of the story. KISS On other matters, I would not have gotten this far if it weren't for the helpful pointers of: Forsyth, Dorman, Harriss, and Mehat Thank you all. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 21:53:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Martin Harriss) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:53:11 -0500 Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 References: <3AB66EE7.3E952A50@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <3AB67FC7.C72A68C1@princeton.edu> Ed Brown wrote: > ... > A long running program that accessed the > ide file system sdta during a dump > caused the file server to throw a > hissy. After that point I received > phase errors on any files on sdta. > Doing a check on sdta from the file server > caused it to reboot. I could get > the file server to reboot from a terminal > by doing an ls on the root of sdta or > an ls in the first dump of main. > ... Locking not quite worked out for devata???? --Martin From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 02:34:43 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:34:43 -0800 Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 References: <3AB66EE7.3E952A50@mailbag.com> <3AB67FC7.C72A68C1@princeton.edu> Message-ID: <3AB6C1C3.4584EB0F@san.rr.com> Martin Harriss wrote: > Ed Brown wrote: > > ... > > A long running program that accessed the > > ide file system sdta during a dump > > caused the file server to throw a > > hissy. After that point I received > > phase errors on any files on sdta. > > Doing a check on sdta from the file server > > caused it to reboot. I could get > > the file server to reboot from a terminal > > by doing an ls on the root of sdta or > > an ls in the first dump of main. > > ... > > Locking not quite worked out for devata???? > > --Martin Certainly possible, though when I was working on it and had lock synchronization problems the FS would die with a 'lock not held' or somesuch; it's fuzzy now. Generally the FS would die rather than do unpleasant things to the filesystem (which is fine by me :) ). That would only occur, however, when there were two IDEs trying to be active simultaneously, vice the one Ed has; seems to me there *shouldn't* (famous last word!) be conflicts between ide and scsi. Glad you got it working, Ed. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 19 14:38:48 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Richard Miller) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:38:48 0000 Subject: [9fans] corrections to ext2 file server Message-ID: For large linux partitions, you need to change this: /sys/lib/pcdist/cmd/ext2/iobuf.c:138 c iobuf.c:138 < seek(dev->dev, addr*dev->block_size, 0); --- > seek(dev->dev, (vlong)addr*dev->block_size, 0); /sys/lib/pcdist/cmd/ext2/iobuf.c:156 c iobuf.c:156 < seek(dev->dev, addr*dev->block_size, 0); --- > seek(dev->dev, (vlong)addr*dev->block_size, 0); -- Richard Miller From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 04:50:22 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:50:22 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Analogue for dbm? Message-ID: <200103200450.XAA20683@math.psu.edu> So, out of curiousity, what's the analogue for dbm files? Is there any sort of indexed disk file structure in Plan 9? Enquiring minds wnat to know! - Dan C. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 06:06:26 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ronald G Minnich) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:06:26 -0700 (MST) Subject: [9fans] Question on mapping 0xfff00000 Message-ID: I need to map FLASH at 0xfff00000 into my flash driver. I have tried a number of variations, and keep coming back to: flashbase = upamalloc(0xfff00000, 0x100000, 0); Return value is 0xfff00000. But, any reference to this address provokes a fault, which leaves me believing I've got this wrong, even though a walk through that code also looks like it does set up the PTEs in the right way. The southbridge chip (PIIX4E) also has the right bits set to enable FLASH at these high addresses, and I've tested those settings in Linux. The general problem is to map the last 2M of the 32-bit address space into memory, since on many boards that is the "reserved for BIOS flash" area. What am I doing wrong? What's the right way to do this. I'm new to this kernel, needless to say. I'm also very happy it is now open source ... ron From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 09:59:09 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (peter huang) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:59:09 GMT Subject: [9fans] old buslogic card Message-ID: <995pnr$8o2$1@web1.cup.hp.com> I have problem getting 9load to recongize my buslogic bt-930 card. I tried ctrl-R, but it does not give me anymore information (I tried scsi0=type=buslogic or scsi0=type=mylex in plan9.ini) file. Any clue on how to troubleshoot this one is appreciated. thanks -peter huang From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 09:59:23 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (peter huang) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:59:23 GMT Subject: [9fans] mk 9pcflop Message-ID: <995rmp$9a9$1@web1.cup.hp.com> I changed one the driver and tried to build a new 9pcflop. The mk 'CONF=pcflop' 9pcflop went OK, but the size is much smaller than the one from install floppy. Am I missing something somewhere? any help is appreciated. -peter huang From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 09:59:39 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:59:39 GMT Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 References: <3AB66EE7.3E952A50@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <3AB680A9.93BB0B54@arl.army.mil> Strange; I put Plan 9r3 (standalone) on a CUSL2 with no problem (apart from the problem with 2 sizes of floppy disks, fixed by disabling the 5.25" one during installation). I'm curious about the specific problem cause. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 10:22:02 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Nikolai Saoukh) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:22:02 +0300 Subject: [9fans] old buslogic card In-Reply-To: <995pnr$8o2$1@web1.cup.hp.com>; from peter_huang@hp.com on Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 09:59:09AM +0000 References: <995pnr$8o2$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Message-ID: <20010320132202.A3110@otdel-1.org> > I have problem getting 9load to recongize my buslogic bt-930 card. There is no support/drivers for FlashPoint (bt-930) cards. Only MultiMaster ones supported. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 12:34:23 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ed Brown) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:34:23 -0600 Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 References: <3AB66EE7.3E952A50@mailbag.com> <3AB680A9.93BB0B54@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <3AB74E4F.233595FA@mailbag.com> Actually, So did I. The cpu and standalone kernels worked on the board without a glitch. It was the file server kernel that had the problem. The problem started with the uart access in wwvtime() and then there was something else which I could not identify. "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > > Strange; I put Plan 9r3 (standalone) on a CUSL2 with no problem > (apart from the problem with 2 sizes of floppy disks, fixed by > disabling the 5.25" one during installation). I'm curious about > the specific problem cause. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 14:28:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric V Van hensbergen) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:28:32 -0600 Subject: [9fans] Crash on Installing SMP System Message-ID: I know I've seen this sort of crash before, but I scanned the list archives and couldn't find any reference. ... sd53c8xx: bios scntl3(00) stest2(00) cpu0: 858Mhz GenuineIntel Pentium III/Xeon #l0: i82557 sd53c8XX: SYM53C896 rev 0x07 intr 7 sd53c8XX: SYM53C896 rev 0x07 intr 9 cpu0: registers for genrandom 2 FLAGS=10286 TRAP=E ECODE=0 PC=801737AF SS=DEAD USP=8019235F AX F000E987 BX 80076010 CX F000EF6F DX 8000001C SI 80004000 DI FA800000 BP 00002000 CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 001B GS 001B CR0 80010039 CR2 f000f013 CR3 000020000 CR4 00000050 MCA 00000000 MCT 00000000 ur 80075e34 up 8029d534 panic: fault: 0xf000f013 Its a dual processor Xeon system, I get this error with the floppy produced from the web page. Anybody seen this before? -eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 16:30:15 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:30:15 -0500 Subject: [9fans] mk 9pcflop Message-ID: <20010320163019.439F1199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> I changed one the driver and tried to build a new 9pcflop. The mk 'CONF=pcflop' 9pcflop went OK, but the size is much smaller than the one from install floppy. Am I missing something somewhere? The 9pcflop that gets built from the current distribution is not the same as the 9pcflop that we hand out, because the distribution is a bit out of date. You should still be able to cd /sys/lib/pcdist/disk mk to get a bootable install image, but it's not the sort that will work on machines without floppy drives (which is what we currently give out and is much larger because the entire root file system is compiled into the kernel). When we put out the next distribution, it will include the new setup. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 01:52:45 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (William Staniewicz) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:52:45 -0500 Subject: [9fans] long boot time Message-ID: <20010320195638.5C872199F8@mail.cse.psu.edu> I kind of switched things around on my computer a bit. Now I am using LILO to boot Plan9. Originally I used a floppy. Well, it seems to have maybe a 10 second pause before it fully loads up. The floppy light comes on and it just sits there. I presume I just need to adjust the plan9.ini file in 9fat but not sure how even after looking at the documentation. Here is my plan9.ini. Is it an easy adjustment? -Bill term% cat plan9.ini bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcdisk bootdisk=local!#S/sdC0/fs *nomp=1 distname=plan9 partition=new monitor=micron-17FGx vgasize=1024x768x8 mouseport=ps2intellimouse installurl=http://204.178.31.2/magic/9down/compressed/966711342.ubps6k6gu2652ar3kwhcwuacfsqhm4es From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 20 20:00:24 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jason Gurtz) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:00:24 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Crash on Installing SMP System In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ...I get this error with the > floppy produced from the web page. > Anybody seen this before? I had issues whith the install floppy hanging. Re-writing the disk in a different drive seemed to cure the problem. May not help you but it'd be worth a shot. There was mention at that time of possible floppy driver bug or somthing; I don't recall if anything came of it. > -eric ~jason -- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 01:30:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:30:21 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Question on mapping 0xfff00000 Message-ID: <20010321013034.07203199FB@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Tue Mar 20 01:07:24 EST 2001, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > > I need to map FLASH at 0xfff00000 into my flash driver. I have tried a > number of variations, and keep coming back to: > > flashbase = upamalloc(0xfff00000, 0x100000, 0); > > Return value is 0xfff00000. But, any reference to this address provokes a > fault, which leaves me believing I've got this wrong, even though a walk > through that code also looks like it does set up the PTEs in the right > way. The southbridge chip (PIIX4E) also has the right bits set to enable > FLASH at these high addresses, and I've tested those settings in Linux. > > The general problem is to map the last 2M of the 32-bit address space into > memory, since on many boards that is the "reserved for BIOS flash" area. > > What am I doing wrong? What's the right way to do this. I'm new to this > kernel, needless to say. I'm also very happy it is now open source ... > > ron Looks like an arithmetic overflow problem. The clue is that the return should be the ending address of the successfully mapped area. But if you add 0xfff00000+0x100000 you get 0x100000000, which is 0 in 32-bits and the mapping loop in mmu.c:^mmukmap() is pae = pa + size; lock(&mmukmaplock); while(pa < pae){ where pa = 0xfff00000 and size = 0x100000, so the loop will not be entered. you could try rewriting the loop to be something like while(size > 0){ ... and wherever you see pa += pgsz; in the loop add size =- pgsz; after it. I think the comment in /sys/src/boot/pc/memory.c:^upamalloc() (which contains the same mapping code) says it all. The whole memory thing is slated for a rewrite but try the above suggestion and let me know how it turns out. --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 01:36:57 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:36:57 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Crash on Installing SMP System Message-ID: <20010321013659.8600519A03@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Tue Mar 20 09:29:23 EST 2001, bergevan@us.ibm.com wrote: > I know I've seen this sort of crash before, but I scanned the list archives > and couldn't find any reference. > > ... > sd53c8xx: bios scntl3(00) stest2(00) > cpu0: 858Mhz GenuineIntel Pentium III/Xeon > #l0: i82557 > sd53c8XX: SYM53C896 rev 0x07 intr 7 > sd53c8XX: SYM53C896 rev 0x07 intr 9 > > cpu0: registers for genrandom 2 > FLAGS=10286 TRAP=E ECODE=0 PC=801737AF SS=DEAD USP=8019235F > AX F000E987 BX 80076010 CX F000EF6F DX 8000001C > SI 80004000 DI FA800000 BP 00002000 > CS 0010 DS 0008 ES 0008 FS 001B GS 001B > CR0 80010039 CR2 f000f013 CR3 000020000 CR4 00000050 > MCA 00000000 MCT 00000000 > ur 80075e34 up 8029d534 > panic: fault: 0xf000f013 > > Its a dual processor Xeon system, I get this error with the floppy produced from the web page. > Anybody seen this before? > > -eric Looks like a PCI device at either 0xF000E000 or 0xF000F000 didn't get mapped properly. Can you find out which device is mapped there and what the PC points to? Was this with SMP enabled in plan9.ini? --jim p.s. how's the new job? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 02:16:47 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:16:47 -0800 Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 References: <3AB66EE7.3E952A50@mailbag.com> <3AB680A9.93BB0B54@arl.army.mil> <3AB74E4F.233595FA@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <3AB80F0F.4D502C94@san.rr.com> Ed Brown wrote: > Actually, > So did I. The cpu and standalone kernels > worked on the board without a glitch. It was > the file server kernel that had the problem. > > The problem started with the uart access in > wwvtime() and then there was something else > which I could not identify. > > "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: > > > > Strange; I put Plan 9r3 (standalone) on a CUSL2 with no problem > > (apart from the problem with 2 sizes of floppy disks, fixed by > > disabling the 5.25" one during installation). I'm curious about > > the specific problem cause. Interesting.. the comment about uart access reminds me of a fix Russ contacted me about when he attempted to use my idefs stuff I posted shortly ago; he had to change update/change/modify something/somewhere (Russ, help me!) and his uart problems went away. Perhaps this is all related. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 02:32:58 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:32:58 -0500 Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 Message-ID: <20010321023302.69898199F0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sorry, I'd zoned out in this conversation, since I don't deal with fs stuff very often. I tried Eric's file server and couldn't get the file server to talk back to me after typing "end", nor could I get anything useful over the serial console. Eric's tarball, I believe, is based on the second edition code. I started with the current file server code from /sys/src/fs and merged the IDE stuff in, and my serial problems went away. I don't know what the problem was, just that it went away when I started over with the current fs code. I should also mention that I too had problems while using the p driver (disk subpartitions). I never did figure out what went wrong, but after a day or two of running I rebooted my file server and there was a postscript file in my superblock and a directory listing in my root file system block. At that point I figured out my kfs problem (which for once wasn't kfs's fault) and stopped using the file server. The p driver problems might not have been in the code, though. The machine I was using for a file server had been discarded by the support staff at school because it randomly rebooted while running Linux. It seemed to work fine for me, except that I noticed the power supply fan wasn't spinning. I replaced the power supply, but only after my superblock had morphed, so I don't know whether the problem was with the fs code or just hardware. I've since been distracted by other things and haven't gotten back to trying with a working power supply. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 05:44:14 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:44:14 -0800 Subject: [9fans] fs incompatable w/ ASUS CUSL2 References: <20010321023302.69898199F0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AB83FAE.14B46BC8@san.rr.com> Russ Cox wrote: > Eric's tarball, I believe, is based on the > second edition code. I started with the current > file server code from /sys/src/fs and merged the > IDE stuff in, and my serial problems went away. > I don't know what the problem was, just that it > went away when I started over with the current fs code. Zounds! I hadn't realized I'd screwed up the tarball like that. That'll larn me. That explains a few things. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 10:08:36 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (peter huang) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:08:36 GMT Subject: [9fans] old buslogic card References: <995pnr$8o2$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, <20010320132202.A3110@otdel-1.org> Message-ID: <99887k$4pu$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Thanks for the info. Do you know how hard to port sdmylex.c to support flashpoint cards? -peter "Nikolai Saoukh" wrote in message news:20010320132202.A3110@otdel-1.org... > > I have problem getting 9load to recongize my buslogic bt-930 card. > > There is no support/drivers for FlashPoint (bt-930) cards. > Only MultiMaster ones supported. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 10:08:53 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (peter huang) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:08:53 GMT Subject: [9fans] mk 9pcflop References: <20010320163019.439F1199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <998858$4pc$1@web1.cup.hp.com> "Russ Cox" wrote in message news:20010320163019.439F1199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu... > > You should still be able to > cd /sys/lib/pcdist/disk > mk > to get a bootable install image, but it's not > the sort that will work on machines without floppy > drives (which is what we currently give out and > is much larger because the entire root file system is > compiled into the kernel). > thanks for the reply. However, when I tried to build it, it complaint about bin/386/pci not exist and /n/kremvax not exist. I could not under cmd the source for pci . -peter From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 10:56:08 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 05:56:08 -0500 Subject: [9fans] mk 9pcflop Message-ID: <20010321105612.74E28199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu> mkdir /n/kremvax as for pci, yeah it's not there. remove the pci line from /sys/lib/pcdist/disk/proto or just ">/sys/lib/pcdist/bin/386/pci" From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 21 16:01:28 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jean Mehat) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:01:28 +0100 (MET) Subject: [9fans] Re: long boot time Message-ID: <200103211601.RAA27067@colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr> Without looking at the source, I always believed it tried to read a plan9.ini from the floppy. It's only when it fails that it reads the plan9.ini from 9fat. If copying the plan9.ini on a floppy suppress the delay, it will look like a confirmation. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 01:56:48 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:56:48 +0100 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: I have encountered a behaviour in bind (well, actually in the fs) which I find inconsistent. I may not be a bug, but it is counter intuitive. Say you have two directories free_space and non_writable. If you write: bind -bc free_space non_writable You add space to non_writable. Everything works fine. free_space is before non_writable in non_writable. If you create a file in non_writable you are actually creating int in free_space. bind -ac non_writable2 free_space2 non_writable2 is after free_space2 in free_space2. You should be able to write in free_space. *you can't*. Even stranger: bind -ac fspace1 fspace2 Any file in fspace2 supersedes any file in fspace1 with the same name, but if you create a file in fspace2 it is actually created *in fspace1*!!!???. fspace1 is *after* fspace2 for already existing files, but it is *before* when you create new ones. I find this weird and counter intuitive. It also seems to contradict the manual page. Is there any reason for this?. Is there something I am not getting?. -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" -- /"\ \ / ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail X - against ms attachments / \ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 02:02:58 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:02:58 -0500 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322020303.8FEE0199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> Actually that's the way it's supposed to work. Say you have two directories free_space and non_writable. If you write: bind -bc free_space non_writable You add space to non_writable. Everything works fine. free_space is before non_writable in non_writable. If you create a file in non_writable you are actually creating int in free_space. The union looks like * free_space non_writable where the * means the directory was bound with -c. Creates go to the topmost starred directory. bind -ac non_writable2 free_space2 non_writable2 is after free_space2 in free_space2. You should be able to write in free_space. *you can't*. Even stranger: Now you have free_space2 * non_writable2 Creates go to non_writable2, but the directory isn't writable. bind -ac fspace1 fspace2 Any file in fspace2 supersedes any file in fspace1 with the same name, but if you create a file in fspace2 it is actually created *in fspace1*!!!???. fspace1 is *after* fspace2 for already existing files, but it is *before* when you create new ones. Now you have fspace2 * fspace1 Creates go to fspace1 but fspace2 wins for lookups. It's just the way it's defined. Note that if you did bind -c fspace2 fspace2 bind -ac fspace1 fspace2 you'd have * fspace2 * fspace1 so creates would go to fspace2 (the fact that fspace1 is starred is ignored), and fspace2 would win for lookups. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 02:42:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:42:01 +0100 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 02:46:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:46:07 +0100 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: >Actually that's the way it's supposed to work. The manual says "creation goes to the first element of the union that permits creation". Doesn't that means that it shoud jump non_writable?. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 02:37:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:37:01 -0500 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322023704.558E4199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> That's an unfortunate choice of words (in the manual). "Permits creation" in that context means "was bound into the union with -c" not "creates would succeed there if tried". Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 02:37:12 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:37:12 0900 Subject: [9fans] Any Japanese IME for Inferno? Message-ID: <20010322023737.AEB4A199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gharvknlqvdfmomtycghoqiwsr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Porting something client-server type "IME" to Plan 9 is against its philosophy. :-) Kenji --upas-gharvknlqvdfmomtycghoqiwsr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([192.168.1.3]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp; Thu Mar 15 21:38:50 JST 2001 Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21597; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:02:37 +0900 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (postfix@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-01020211) with ESMTP id WAA21357; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:02:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2346199C1; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:02:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41CED19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:01:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14dWic-000771-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:19:02 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rome Huang Message-ID: <98qbkl$1gk@netnews.hinet.net> Organization: DCI HiNet Subject: [9fans] Any Japanese IME for Inferno? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:18:49 GMT Is there any Japanese IME for Inferno? We need the features similar to FreeWNN(www.freewnn.org) or mobilewnn. If the porting is feasible and price is reasonable, we could pay to port it. Best Regards, Rome. --upas-gharvknlqvdfmomtycghoqiwsr-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 02:57:03 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:57:03 +0100 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: Russ> Actually that's the way it's supposed to work. The manual says "creation goes to the first element of the union that permits creation". Doesn't that means that it should jump over non_writeble? Even taking that in account, I can't see the logic behind this behaviour. Lookup should win whenever creation wins. That would be symmetrical and clean. with bind -ac n1 n2, bind -bc n1 n2, bind -ac n2 n1, bind -bc n2 n1 you would cover all the logical possibilities, and you save doing bind -c n1 n2 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 03:10:14 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:10:14 +0100 Subject: [9fans] Sorry for the cut mails.. Message-ID: I have had some problems with the slow net and they have been sent incomplete while I was writing them... Saludos, Gorka From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 03:17:16 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:17:16 +0100 Subject: Re [9fans] union directories Message-ID: Russ> Actually that's the way it's supposed to work. The manual says "creation goes to the first element of the union that permits creation". Doesn't that means that it should jump over non_writeble? Even taking that in account, I can't see the logic behind this behaviour. Lookup should win whenever creation wins. That would be symmetrical and clean. with bind -ac n1 n2, bind -bc n1 n2, bind -ac n2 n1, bind -bc n2 n1 you would cover all the logical possibilities, and you save doing something else, like running two commands or adding an extra flag for the rest of the cases where lookup!=creation. I can see the logic behind making creation more or less independant from lookup, but the implementation for is rather weird... Saludos, Gorka From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 03:28:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:28:32 +0100 Subject: Re [9fans] union directories Message-ID: I don't think I have explained myself clearly, so I will try to do it again, borrowing Russ's notation: bind -bc foo bar should give: *foo bar bind -ac foo bar shoud give *bar foo This is what I would expect intuitively. Of course you can always do bind -b foo bar to set the bar from the previous example to: foo *bar foo which is actually equivalent to: foo *bar Saludos, Gorka From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 03:28:37 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:28:37 -0500 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322032845.A4AE7199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> The manual says "creation goes to the first element of the union that permits creation". Doesn't that means that it shoud jump non_writable?. Actually, the manual page bind(1) says, [-c] can be used in addition to any of the above to permit creation in a union directory. When a new file is created in a union directory, it is placed in the first element of the union that permits creation. In this context, I don't feel it's ambiguous. Bind(2) says, When a create system call (see open (2)) attempts to create in a union directory, and the file does not exist, the elements of the union are searched in order until one is found with MCREATE set. The file is created in that directory; if that attempt fails, the create fails. which is even clearer. As to what it *should* do, this topic was one of the most discussed in the early days of the system. The current behavior obviously reflects an easy implementation. It's worked well in practice but better designs may exist. Lookup should win whenever creation wins. I'm not sure what this means. There's no "winning" going on, and lookup cannot work the same as creation if the file does not exist, since there's nothing to look up. If there is an existing file with that name, in any element of the union, it is the one to which creation will always apply. This is all a legacy of Unix's model that create means two different things in the two situations. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 04:47:18 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:47:18 0000 Subject: Re [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322044936.A2241199DD@mail.cse.psu.edu> >>bind -ac foo bar shoud give >>*bar >>foo >>This is what I would expect intuitively. Of course you can always do ... i don't understand how this could be considered the `intuitive' interpretation. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 05:37:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Nikolai Saoukh) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:37:49 +0300 Subject: [9fans] old buslogic card In-Reply-To: <99887k$4pu$1@web1.cup.hp.com>; from peter_huang@hp.com on Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 10:08:36AM +0000 References: <995pnr$8o2$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, <20010320132202.A3110@otdel-1.org> <99887k$4pu$1@web1.cup.hp.com> Message-ID: <20010322083749.A5166@otdel-1.org> > Thanks for the info. Do you know how hard to port sdmylex.c to support > flashpoint cards? IMHO it just another kind of cards having little in common with MultiMaster series. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 15:09:29 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Gorka Guardiola Muzquiz) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:09:29 +0100 Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Message-ID: From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 15:29:16 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:29:16 0100 Subject: Re [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322152929.D66EA19A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> >forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk said: >>bind -ac foo bar shoud give >>*bar >>foo >>This is what I would expect intuitively. Of course you can always do ... >i don't understand how this could be considered the `intuitive' interpret>ation. The directory which is before for the lookup gets the creation. I feel that is more consistent. If it is before, it is before for everything... Saludos, Gorka From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 15:36:28 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:36:28 -0500 Subject: Re [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322153635.40740199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> The directory which is before for the lookup gets the creation. I feel that is more consistent. If it is before, it is before for everything... If you want that, you can do that: use -c with all your binds and the create will go to the top directory. There are legitimate cases in which you want creates to go to the bottom directory, though; your scheme would disallow that. Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 15:41:27 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:41:27 0100 Subject: Re [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322154131.D102F199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vmtxzrjdjnbmfybmffgaoxbeia Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not really. You can always do: (I am writing what I think it should do, not what it actual behaviour..) bind -ac foo bar *bar foo bind -b foo bar foo *bar Saludos, Gorka --upas-vmtxzrjdjnbmfybmffgaoxbeia Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from perete.dei.inf.uc3m.es (perete.dei.inf.uc3m.es [163.117.137.166]) by arpa.it.uc3m.es (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23793 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:37:30 +0100 Received: by perete.dei.inf.uc3m.es (Postfix) id C828728F9; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:37:29 +0100 (CET) Delivered-To: paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by perete.dei.inf.uc3m.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E1928F8 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:37:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9837C199F8; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:37:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (ampl.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 40740199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:36:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: Re [9fans] union directories MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010322153635.40740199EE@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:36:28 -0500 The directory which is before for the lookup gets the creation. I feel that is more consistent. If it is before, it is before for everything... If you want that, you can do that: use -c with all your binds and the create will go to the top directory. There are legitimate cases in which you want creates to go to the bottom directory, though; your scheme would disallow that. Russ --upas-vmtxzrjdjnbmfybmffgaoxbeia-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 17:00:30 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:00:30 -0500 Subject: Re [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010322170032.859B5199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> The directory which is before for the lookup gets the creation. I feel that is more consistent. If it is before, it is before for everything... Russ is right; you can get this by mounting everything -c. The canonical example that led us to the design we implemented is /bin, which typically contains first a set of public unwritable directories and second a set of personal writable ones. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 17:23:51 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Mark C. Otto) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:23:51 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Installing Plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS Laptop References: , <3A75A175.BBC627FF@FWS.Gov> <3AB4DEAA.5040000@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: <3ABA3527.CB4B60B0@FWS.Gov> Nobody has responded to my message. I think a video driver has to be written for that chip. I haven't looked into that and won't be able to for a while. Yes. I think the worst you can do by trying different plan9.ini options is blow out the video. Good luck getting it up. Mark 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu wrote: > > From: Michael Collins @cse.psu.edu on > 03/19/2001 09:43 AM GMT > > Please respond to 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > cc: > Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing Plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS > Laptop > > I would like to get my ct6900 up. It has pretty much the same specs. I > am very new at p9 though. I will start trying things. Thanks for the > impetus. All I can do is blow the video out, right? > > Mark C. Otto wrote: > > > I am trying to install plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS. I had > problems > > with aux/vga and was left in rc. I suspect that the problem is in with > the > > CT65555 video chip. I tried adding > > > > -- > Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com > Admiral Penguinista Navy International > This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org > Speech Enabled Chat http://phphreaks.net/bxspeak/ -- Mark Otto, Biological Statistician work: 301-497-5872 Population and Habitat Assessment Section fax: 301-497-5871 Office of Migratory Bird Management e-mail: Mark_Otto@FWS.Gov U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Department of the Interior 11500 American Holly Drive Laurel, Maryland 20708-4016 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 18:17:35 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:17:35 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Installing Plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS Laptop Message-ID: <20010322181737.C089E19A11@mail.cse.psu.edu> are you sure it's a c&t 6900, not a c&t 69000? the hiqvideo driver handles the 69000, but has only been tried with a real monitor, not an lcd. --jim On Thu Mar 22 12:25:27 EST 2001, Mark_Otto@FWS.Gov wrote: > Nobody has responded to my message. I think a video driver has to be written > for that chip. I haven't looked into that and won't be able to for a while. > Yes. I think the worst you can do by trying different plan9.ini options is blow > out the video. > > Good luck getting it up. > > Mark > > 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu wrote: > > > > From: Michael Collins @cse.psu.edu on > > 03/19/2001 09:43 AM GMT > > > > Please respond to 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > > > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > cc: > > Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing Plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS > > Laptop > > > > I would like to get my ct6900 up. It has pretty much the same specs. I > > am very new at p9 though. I will start trying things. Thanks for the > > impetus. All I can do is blow the video out, right? > > > > Mark C. Otto wrote: > > > > > I am trying to install plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS. I had > > problems > > > with aux/vga and was left in rc. I suspect that the problem is in with > > the > > > CT65555 video chip. I tried adding > > > > > > > -- > > Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com > > Admiral Penguinista Navy International > > This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org > > Speech Enabled Chat http://phphreaks.net/bxspeak/ > > -- > Mark Otto, Biological Statistician work: 301-497-5872 > Population and Habitat Assessment Section fax: 301-497-5871 > Office of Migratory Bird Management e-mail: Mark_Otto@FWS.Gov > U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service > Department of the Interior > 11500 American Holly Drive > Laurel, Maryland 20708-4016 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 23 10:06:37 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:06:37 GMT Subject: [9fans] union directories References: <20010322032845.A4AE7199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3ABA94CD.18C98A0A@null.net> rob pike wrote: > This is all a legacy of Unix's model that create means two different > things in the two situations. Well, there you go -- an attempt to create an existing file should fail. That is a simpler and more useful property. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 23 13:08:24 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:08:24 0000 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <20010323120225.1F2D2199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> > > This is all a legacy of Unix's model that create means two different > > things in the two situations. > > Well, there you go -- an attempt to create an existing file should > fail. That is a simpler and more useful property. it's not just a problem with the semantics of the create() system call, but with the shell too. if i type: echo hello > /usr/rog/file i expect /usr/rog/file to be created if it isn't already there, but overwritten if it is. if create didn't overwrite an existing file, the shell would have to do exactly as the kernel does currently, and for most intents and purposes you'd still get the same "dual meaning". i think under 9p2000 it's possible to call create() with an OEXCL option and get the semantics you suggest. cheers, rog. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 23 13:30:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (G. David Butler) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 6:30:00 -0700 Subject: [9fans] union directories Message-ID: <200103231428.OAA52376@mail.eot.dbsystems.com> No, I did NOT pay him to say this! :) "Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote: __________ >rob pike wrote: >> This is all a legacy of Unix's model that create means two different >> things in the two situations. > >Well, there you go -- an attempt to create an existing file should >fail. That is a simpler and more useful property. > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 24 01:43:55 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ronald G Minnich) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:43:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: [9fans] Question on mapping 0xfff00000 In-Reply-To: <20010321013034.07203199FB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Looks like an arithmetic overflow problem. The clue is that the return > should be the ending address of the successfully mapped area. But if you > add 0xfff00000+0x100000 you get 0x100000000, which is 0 in 32-bits and the > mapping loop in mmu.c:^mmukmap() is ok, yes, it is an arithmetic overflow. My fix is to not try to map that last page, as i will not really need it anyway for what I am doing. Also, it turns out the return for upamalloc is 0 for fail, and the STARTING address on success. Just FYI. thanks for the help, that cleared up the problems I was having. I should have caught that as many times as I've been bitten by the "last page bug" in various OSes. My driver is now happy. ron From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 22 00:59:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:59:11 +0100 Subject: [9fans] strange behaviour of bind Message-ID: <15033.20063.386721.676087@nido.hilbert.space> I have encountered a behaviour in bind (well, actually in the fs) which I find inconsistent. I may not be a bug, but it is counter intuitive. Say you have two directories free_space and non_writable. If you write: bind -bc free_space non_writable You add space to non_writable. Everything works fine. free_space is before non_writable in non_writable. If you create a file in non_writable you are actually creating int in free_space. bind -ac non_writable2 free_space2 non_writable2 is after free_space2 in free_space2. You should be able to write in free_space. *you can't*. Even stranger: bind -ac fspace1 fspace2 Any file in fspace2 supersedes any file in fspace1 with the same name, but if you create a file in fspace2 it is actually created *in fspace1*!!!???. fspace1 is *after* fspace2 for already existing files, but it is *before* when you create new ones. I find this weird and counter intuitive. It also seems to contradict the manual page. Is there any reason for this?. Is there something I am not getting?. -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" -- /"\ \ / ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail X - against ms attachments / \ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 25 08:01:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (ron) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 16:01:38 +0800 Subject: [9fans] Any Japanese IME for Inferno? References: <20010322023737.AEB4A199E7@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <002801c0b501$d5a79ba0$ab3748d3@hinet.net> We need the features similar to freewnn/mobilewnn except the client-server part, we plan to use it on stand-alone Inferno-pliance. Rome. ----- Original Message ----- From: Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] Any Japanese IME for Inferno? > Porting something client-server type "IME" to Plan 9 is against its philosophy. :-) > > Kenji > > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Mar 25 14:28:43 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:28:43 -0500 Subject: [9fans] non-standard CD sizes Message-ID: <20010325142846.8F3C9199E6@mail.cse.psu.edu> i've got a bunch of non-standard sized CDs (mini-CDs at ~51MB/6min, a few 800MB/80min). they're all blanks. i've also got a IDE NEC CD writer. the non-standard sizes don't show up as anything in cdfs (the small ones show up in /dev/sdD0, the big ones don't). is this a known limitation of cdfs/#S, or a problem with my hardware (never tried it on any other OS)? -α. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 08:45:18 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:45:18 GMT Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward Message-ID: <3ABDA925.F540A606@null.net> Recently I got tired of not being able to delete in front of the cursor with DEL the way most other text editors work these days, so I changed "samterm" to do that. I made it conditional on DELFWD so you can compile it to work either way; this could be made an environmental switch or command-line option instead. Or, my preference, officially change sam to always work this way. term% diff main.BAK main.c 488d487 < case '\b': 489a489,494 > #ifdef DELFWD /* DAG -- want DEL key to delete forward, not backward */ > l->p0 = a; > l->p1 = aorigin+l->f.nchars? a+1 : a; > break; > #endif > case '\b': 490a496 > l->p1 = a; 493a500 > l->p1 = a; 496a504 > l->p1 = a; 499d506 < l->p1 = a; Here is what the updated section of /sys/src/cmd/samterm/main.c looks like: }else if(backspacing && !hostlock){ if(l->f.p0>0 && a>0){ switch(c){ case 0x7F: /* del */ #ifdef DELFWD /* DAG -- want DEL key to delete forward, not backward */ l->p0 = a; l->p1 = aorigin+l->f.nchars? a+1 : a; break; #endif case '\b': l->p0 = a-1; l->p1 = a; break; case 0x15: /* ctrl-u */ l->p0 = ctlu(&t->rasp, l->origin, a); l->p1 = a; break; case 0x17: /* ctrl-w */ l->p0 = ctlw(&t->rasp, l->origin, a); l->p1 = a; break; } if(l->p1 != l->p0){ /* cut locally if possible */ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 08:44:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:44:49 GMT Subject: [9fans] union directories References: <20010323120225.1F2D2199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3ABBF8B3.C079B920@null.net> rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > if i type: > echo hello > /usr/rog/file > i expect /usr/rog/file to be created if it isn't already there, but > overwritten if it is. What you expect is a strong function of what you are accustomed to. Whether or not the above is desired behavior is about a 50-50 proposition, based on my own experience (with a lot of lost data). My point about create is that it seems its primary function is to write an entry into a directory. Whether or not it should fail if the entry is already there is debatable, but truncating the content of the pointed-to file seems like a different function, indeed one that is already available by open-for-writing. I think the database people would support the position that the basic actions need to be atomic, which pretty much means simple. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 08:45:03 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Michael Collins) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:45:03 GMT Subject: [9fans] Installing Plan9 on a Toshiba Sattellite 4015CDS Laptop References: <20010322181737.C089E19A11@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3ABD5A18.6070106@austin.rr.com> darn it. you are so right. Downloading now. Thanks. jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > are you sure it's a c&t 6900, not a c&t 69000? > the hiqvideo driver handles the 69000, but has only been > tried with a real monitor, not an lcd. > > --jim > > -- Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com Admiral Penguinista Navy International This ain't California http://www.geekaustin.org Speech Enabled Chat http://phphreaks.net/bxspeak/ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 08:45:33 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Patrick Dubroy) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:45:33 GMT Subject: [9fans] Video drivers Message-ID: <3ABDAA16.1F73B893@my.sig> Hi, I am trying to install Plan 9 on an HP Vectra VL 5/166, which has onboard video in the form of the S3 Trio64 V2/DX (86C775). To get rio to start I added a line to vgadb, underneath the others for the 86C775 chipset: 0xC0048="HP/S3 86C775 Video BIOS. Version 1.01.04-H2" And rio starts up fine, except about 3 quarters of the way across the screen I get a big set of vertical colour stripes, and then the screen starts to repeat itself. On the floppy I have chosen generic Multisync monitor @ 65Hz, and I am running only at 640x480, 8-bit colour. So has anyone had similar problems with this card? From the hardware compatibility lists it seems that the card was tested in previous releases, but not the most recent release. Maybe it would be best to try and find a new card? Thanks, Pat -- Patrick Dubroy pat AT dubroy DOT com public key @ http://dubroy.com/pgp/ or email pgp-key AT dubroy DOT com fingerprint = B1F5 E738 68FA FC9E 8826 76A6 2162 752C EE61 851E From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 13:40:02 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (kazumi iwane) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:40:02 +0900 Subject: [9fans] assertion failure in libmemdraw Message-ID: Hello 9fans, My standalone system panics very frequently, emitting console message such as: panic: assert failed: Dy(*sr) == Dy(*mr) && Dy(*mr) == Dy(*r) ktrace /kernel/path 8010649e 80466d20 (...a lot of hex numbers...) cpu0: exiting This assertion seems to be the one planted in /sys/src/libmemdraw/draw.c:268 I can't figure out what action violates the assertion; it can be when I B3-click to resize an existing window, type ls in a window and the window goes scrolling, etc.. No particular trigger to attribute to. I am using a Virge card with 2MB of VRAM at 1024x768x8. Someone please help? - kazumi From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 13:40:04 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (kazumi iwane) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:40:04 +0900 Subject: [9fans] kfs is suicidal Message-ID: Hello 9fans, I just got a standalone system installed on sdC1, but it is quite unstable. I am looking for some help. kfs dies very very frequently. It only lasts about 15 minutes on average, leaving me almost no time to investigate the problem. I am usually doing ordinary things such as typing commands or reading files when it happens, but I can't determine what action actually kills kfs. I get dying messages, such as: kfs 6: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x4b pc=0x000043f3 but it's not helping me in finding out the problem. For what it's worth, here is what '#S/sdC1/ctl' says: inquiry QUANTUM FIREBALL EL5.1A config 045A capabilities 0F00 dma 00550004 dmactl 00000000 rwm 16 rwmctl 0 geometry 10018890 512 10602 15 63 part data 0 10018890 part plan9 63 10008495 part 9fat 63 20545 part fs 20545 9853687 part swap 9853687 10008495 And here is what 9pcdisk says about ata devices (I think) at the boot time: dev A0 port 1F0 config 045A capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0407 dma 00000004 rwm 8 dev B0 port 1F0 config 045A capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0407 dma 00550004 rwm 16 dev A0 port 170 config 8580 capabilities 0A00 mwdma 2045 dma 00000000 rwm 0 After a couple of suicides, kfs manages to damage its storage beyond recovery, and the system no longer boots, making me to install again and again. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 13:40:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (kazumi iwane) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:40:05 +0900 Subject: [9fans] how much memory? Message-ID: Hello 9fans, My pc has got 128 Mbytes of RAM, but /dev/swap says 1539/19428 memory 0/19351 swap which means, I think, about 75 Mbytes of total memory because a page is 4096 bytes. Where does the rest go, grabbed by the kernel? Thanks. - kazumi From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 14:12:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:12:01 -0500 Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward Message-ID: <20010326141213.E674A19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> I'm nervous about this because rio can't do the same thing, and if you get in the habit in sam place you'll be sorry in rio when you kill the process. I regret the different interpretations of ESC and don't want to make another mistake like that. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 15:42:15 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:42:15 -0500 Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward In-Reply-To: Message from "rob pike" of "Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:12:01 EST." <20010326141213.E674A19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010326154215.2468.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> | I'm nervous about this because rio can't do the same thing, and if you | get in the habit in sam place you'll be sorry in rio when you kill the | process. I regret the different interpretations of ESC and don't want | to make another mistake like that. Does rio really need to use the delete key for that? Most keyboards these days have some spare function keys, if not a key that's actually labled something like "Break". From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 15:37:34 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:37:34 GMT Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward References: <20010326141213.E674A19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3ABF5D54.B549A18B@arl.army.mil> rob pike wrote: > I'm nervous about this because rio can't do the same thing, and if you > get in the habit in sam place you'll be sorry in rio when you kill the > process. I regret the different interpretations of ESC and don't want > to make another mistake like that. I appreciate the point. It is a pity that the industry didn't agree on standard uses for control keystrokes. Actually DEL is RUBOUT, which should be ignored since it is where the punched paper tape was backspaced and overpunched to remove an erroneous character. ESC is supposed to introduce a *sequence* of characters. Etc. I'm not sure why the early Unix use of DEL to generate an INTR signal was carried into Plan 9, but frankly it seems like a poor choice. ETX (^C) is a semi-standard for this function, just as DEL deletes forward in most text processors these days. I doubt you want to go the X11-init-file route, but it might be useful to employ *some* sort of functional key map, defaulting to whatever you think is best. Then sam, rio, and other apps could be uniformly coded to test for the key corresponding to the function Delete-Word-Backward, Delete-Char-Forward, Generate-Signal, etc. instead of hard-wiring the functions. I know that hard-wired functions make it easier to use somebody else's environment, but I don't think that trumps the desire to be able to switch among Plan 9 and other OSes without having to retrain one's fingers. I just realized that while preparing this message under Solaris with Netscape's Compose window, I used DEL for delete-forward several times. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 16:04:29 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:04:29 -0500 Subject: [9fans] assertion failure in libmemdraw Message-ID: <20010326160432.A6637199F9@mail.cse.psu.edu> i saw exactly this problem - crashes durring seemingly unrelated, benign activities - starting about two weeks ago when the hardware in my system (either RAM or CPU) went bad (due to overheating and static). i'd suggest that maybe that's the case for you, too. i've since replaced my motherboard, CPU, and RAM, and everything runs great now. -α. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 17:14:47 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:14:47 -0500 Subject: [9fans] how much memory? Message-ID: <20010326171454.141EF199F9@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gctganhjmnxkegtjblitsuquxn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The kernel is being piggy. If you have > 16 Meg, 40 meg gets reserved by the kernel , mostly so it can use it for bitmaps. You can reduce that by putting the following in plan9.ini: *kernelpercent=xx where xx is the percentage you want to reserve for the kernel. --upas-gctganhjmnxkegtjblitsuquxn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Mar 26 08:45:07 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Mar 26 08:45:05 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9BDB19A0C; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:44:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from pproxy105.mbn.or.jp (pproxy105.mbn.or.jp [202.217.3.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BF46199ED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:43:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from patrick (cse7-28.kawaguchi.mbn.or.jp [202.217.16.52]) by pproxy105.mbn.or.jp (8.9.3+Sun/pproxy105.mbn.or.jp-2.0) with SMTP id WAA28162 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:43:36 +0900 (JST) From: "kazumi iwane" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [9fans] how much memory? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:40:05 +0900 Hello 9fans, My pc has got 128 Mbytes of RAM, but /dev/swap says 1539/19428 memory 0/19351 swap which means, I think, about 75 Mbytes of total memory because a page is 4096 bytes. Where does the rest go, grabbed by the kernel? Thanks. - kazumi --upas-gctganhjmnxkegtjblitsuquxn-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Mar 26 17:16:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:16:46 -0500 Subject: [9fans] how much memory? Message-ID: <20010326171648.686FC19A17@mail.cse.psu.edu> I can't type, I meant 40%, not 40 meg. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 02:33:40 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:33:40 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Video drivers References: <3ABDAA16.1F73B893@my.sig> Message-ID: <3ABFFC04.7B7A88F0@san.rr.com> Patrick Dubroy wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to install Plan 9 on an HP Vectra VL 5/166, which has > onboard video in the form of the S3 Trio64 V2/DX (86C775). To get rio to > start I added a line to vgadb, underneath the others for the 86C775 > chipset: > > 0xC0048="HP/S3 86C775 Video BIOS. Version 1.01.04-H2" > > And rio starts up fine, except about 3 quarters of the way across the > screen I get a big set of vertical colour stripes, and then the screen > starts to repeat itself. > > On the floppy I have chosen generic Multisync monitor @ 65Hz, and I am > running only at 640x480, 8-bit colour. > > So has anyone had similar problems with this card? From the hardware > compatibility lists it seems that the card was tested in previous > releases, but not the most recent release. Maybe it would be best to try > and find a new card? > Pat i have two of those boxes; quite nice terminals with a P5-233 MMX in them. I use one as auth server, the second as a terminal. the problem you're seeing is that some of the Trio3D registers aren't getting zeroed correctly, so when you switch to graphics mode the screen clipped on the left. if you have 1Mb of memory then you can get 1024x768x8. download everything just like normal; ignore the replication. once you've done that put the following at the end of the indicated functions: (i would post a diff but my array is offline).. /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/s3generic.c:init() vga->crt[0x90] = 0x0; vga->crt[0x91] = 0x0; /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/s3generic.c:load() vgaxo( Crtx, 0x90, vga->crt[0x90] ); vgaxo( Crtx, 0x91, vga->crt[0x91] ); 'mk install' and you're set. doesn't seem to bust regular s3 Trio64 AFAIK. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 02:40:52 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:40:52 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Video drivers References: <3ABDAA16.1F73B893@my.sig> <3ABFFC04.7B7A88F0@san.rr.com> Message-ID: <3ABFFDB4.BD4009A7@san.rr.com> Eric Dorman wrote: > the problem you're seeing is that some of the Trio3D registers > aren't getting zeroed correctly, so when you switch to graphics mode > the screen clipped on the left. if you have 1Mb of memory then you > can get 1024x768x8. err, clipped on the right. don't type on an empty stomach. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 06:26:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Andrey A Mirtchovski) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:26:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] p9 research Message-ID: hello, here is a link to a powerpoint presentation (saved in html format + javascript) oh my plan9-related project.. the whole idea wa to take several different algorithms and break them into several machines while trying to make the best out of the distributed computational capabilities od the OS now keep in mind, this was an undergraduate project... here is the link... http://homepage.usask.ca/~aam396/P9BL_files/v3_document.htm any comments are considered valuable :) any flames are conssidered too :) From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 06:30:07 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Andrey A Mirtchovski) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:30:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] p9 research In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Andrey A Mirtchovski wrote: > hello, > > here is a link to a powerpoint presentation (saved in html format + > javascript) oh my plan9-related project.. > ahh, bad spellig.. where would we be without it... i'm sorry From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 07:00:32 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Eric Dorman) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:00:32 -0800 Subject: [9fans] Video drivers References: <3ABDAA16.1F73B893@my.sig> <3ABFFC04.7B7A88F0@san.rr.com> <3ABFFDB4.BD4009A7@san.rr.com> Message-ID: <3AC03A90.17F7427@san.rr.com> Eric Dorman wrote: > Eric Dorman wrote: > > the problem you're seeing is that some of the Trio3D registers > > aren't getting zeroed correctly, so when you switch to graphics mode > > the screen clipped on the left. if you have 1Mb of memory then you > > can get 1024x768x8. > err, clipped on the right. don't type on an empty stomach. Well, 1280x1024x8. Yuk. --eric From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 07:54:10 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Toby Thain) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:54:10 +1000 Subject: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar References: <20010309222043.E94151998A@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AC04722.A1BE0EE6@telegraphics.com.au> forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > > i thought we were an autonomous collective! You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. Toby "I'm 37. Not old." -- The other Dennis > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: [9fans] The Cathedral and the Bazaar > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:33:37 -0500 > From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com > Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > > ... the capital raised to build the York Minster and 40 some other > > churches in old York was extorted from wealthy landowners and the > > peasants (pay or go to hell). I think this better fits the model > > So, in present-day York is VN playing the role of the Church, > the wealth landowners, or the peasants? > > Dennis From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 08:25:56 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Boyd Roberts) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:25:56 GMT Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward References: <20010326141213.E674A19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <3ABF5D54.B549A18B@arl.army.mil> Message-ID: <99p3gv$1int$1@news5.isdnet.net> Douglas A. Gwyn a crit dans le message : 3ABF5D54.B549A18B@arl.army.mil... > I appreciate the point. It is a pity that the industry didn't agree on > standard uses for control keystrokes. Actually DEL is RUBOUT, which > should be ignored since it is where the punched paper tape was > backspaced and overpunched to remove an erroneous character. ESC is > supposed to introduce a *sequence* of characters. |-------------| | o o . o | | . o o | | o . o | | o . o | | o . | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o . o o | | . o o | | o o . o | | o o . o o | | o o . o | | o o . o o o | | o . o | | o . | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o o . | | . o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o . o | | . o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o o . o | | . o o | | o . o o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | . o o | | . o o | | . o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o o . | | o . o | | o . o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o . o | | . o o | | o . o | | o o . o o | | o . | | o . o o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o . o o | | o o . o | | . o o | | o . o o | | . o | | o . o | | . o o | | . o o | | o o . | | o . o | | o . o | | . o | | o . o o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | . o | | . o o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | . o | | . o o | | o . | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o . o o | | . o o | | . o o o | | . o o o | | o o . | | . o o | | o . o | | o o . o o | | . o | | o o . o o o | | o o . o | | o . o | | . o o | | o . o | | . o o | | o o . o | | o o . o o | | o . o o | | o . | |-------------| From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 08:25:42 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Sadanand Warrier) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:25:42 GMT Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <99o9i0$4oq@nntpa.cb.lucent.com> Hi I'm trying to install Plan9 on a new PC. I've got 3 partitions. Windows ME hogs the first two and I'm trying to install Plan 9 on the third partition (its about 30 GB). The installation of Plan 9 goes through quite successfully. I have no problems with the VGA (ATI Xpert 98) and unpack proceeds well. Finally at bootsetup I created a boot floppy and I also opted to boot from the disk. This does not work at all because the Windows ME idea of a boot record may be different from Windows 98 or NT. However when I try to boot from the boot floppy it hangs after it says its booting the image from sdC0. The message I get is panic: kernel iunlock. I've looked at the code in code in /sys/src/boot/pc and I cannot find this message though there seem to be iunlocks associated with ethernet drivers. I have a 3COM PCMCIA 3C905C lan card. Would this cause a problem? The CPU is a 1.2 Gig Athlon. S From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 08:52:25 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:52:25 0100 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <20010327094451.8952E199DC@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-unfrocejcxkwqpcqvqmalnxfyg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>from the disk. This does not work at all because the Windows ME idea of a >>boot record may be different from Windows 98 or NT. it's not so much the boot record as the config.sys and other files that aren't used in ME. it just occurred to me that the bootwinnt option (see /sys/lib/pcdist/inst/bootwinnt) updates a file boot.ini instead; perhaps that's usable on ME. i haven't got my ME machine with me to experiment. >> However when I try to boot from the boot floppy it hangs after it says >>its booting the image from sdC0. The message I get is panic: kernel iunlock. >>I've looked at the code in code in /sys/src/boot/pc and I cannot find this >>message though there seem to be iunlocks associated with ethernet drivers. panic: iunlock is there. is it really `kernel iunlock'? >> I have a 3COM PCMCIA 3C905C lan card. Would this cause a problem? The >>CPU is a 1.2 Gig Athlon. is it really PCMCIA? the only PCMCIA 3com cards supported (i believe) are 3c589, 3c562 and some minor variants. normally 3C905 is a PCI card. i'll see if i can find a 905C card here that's not in use, to test it. --upas-unfrocejcxkwqpcqvqmalnxfyg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 985683024:10:14049:1; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:50:24 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013777; 27 Mar 2001 8:50 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76F9B19A04; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:49:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39983199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:48:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14hooF-0004wx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:26:35 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Message-ID: <99o9i0$4oq@nntpa.cb.lucent.com> Organization: Lucent Technologies, Columbus, Ohio Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:25:42 GMT Hi I'm trying to install Plan9 on a new PC. I've got 3 partitions. Windows ME hogs the first two and I'm trying to install Plan 9 on the third partition (its about 30 GB). The installation of Plan 9 goes through quite successfully. I have no problems with the VGA (ATI Xpert 98) and unpack proceeds well. Finally at bootsetup I created a boot floppy and I also opted to boot from the disk. This does not work at all because the Windows ME idea of a boot record may be different from Windows 98 or NT. However when I try to boot from the boot floppy it hangs after it says its booting the image from sdC0. The message I get is panic: kernel iunlock. I've looked at the code in code in /sys/src/boot/pc and I cannot find this message though there seem to be iunlocks associated with ethernet drivers. I have a 3COM PCMCIA 3C905C lan card. Would this cause a problem? The CPU is a 1.2 Gig Athlon. S --upas-unfrocejcxkwqpcqvqmalnxfyg-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 13:28:24 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Sadanand Warrier) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:28:24 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: > > is it really PCMCIA? the only PCMCIA 3com cards supported (i believe) are 3c589, 3c562 > and some minor variants. normally 3C905 is a PCI card. i'll see if i can find a 905C > card here that's not in use, to test it. > My mistake . It is a PCI card. To be exact 3COM 3C905C-TX 10/100 Etherlink IIIB PCI Ethernet adapter OEM, Twisted Pair(RJ-45) Only. With network wake-up feature. Would this cause a problem. S > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 14:01:56 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Sam) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:01:56 -0500 Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward In-Reply-To: <99p3gv$1int$1@news5.isdnet.net> References: <20010326141213.E674A19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> <3ABF5D54.B549A18B@arl.army.mil> <99p3gv$1int$1@news5.isdnet.net> Message-ID: <01032709015600.08511@softnet> At the risk of asking a perhaps foolish question . . . What the hell is this!?! :), sam On Tuesday 27 March 2001 03:25, you wrote: > Douglas A. Gwyn a crit dans le message : > 3ABF5D54.B549A18B@arl.army.mil... > > > I appreciate the point. It is a pity that the industry didn't agree on > > standard uses for control keystrokes. Actually DEL is RUBOUT, which > > should be ignored since it is where the punched paper tape was > > backspaced and overpunched to remove an erroneous character. ESC is > > supposed to introduce a *sequence* of characters. > > > |-------------| > | o o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | o . o | > | o . | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o o | > | . o o | > | o o . o | > | o o . o o | > | o o . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o | > | o . | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . | > | . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o | > | . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | . o o | > | . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . | > | o . o | > | o . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | o o . o o | > | o . | > | o . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o o | > | o o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o o | > | . o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | . o o | > | o o . | > | o . o | > | o . o | > | . o | > | o . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | . o | > | . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | . o | > | . o o | > | o . | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o o | > | . o o | > | . o o o | > | . o o o | > | o o . | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | o o . o | > | o o . o o | > | o . o o | > | o . | > |-------------| -- Sam Hopkins ------------------------------------------------ Random QOTD: "It now costs more to amuse a child, than it once did to educate his father." From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 14:08:48 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Sam) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:08:48 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward Message-ID: <01032709084801.08511@softnet> You know that warm feeling that overcomes you when you realize you just replied a message to an entire list you intended for the originator? Sigh...lack of caffeine. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:01:56 -0500 From: Sam To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu At the risk of asking a perhaps foolish question . . . What the hell is this!?! :), sam On Tuesday 27 March 2001 03:25, you wrote: > Douglas A. Gwyn a crit dans le message : > 3ABF5D54.B549A18B@arl.army.mil... > > > I appreciate the point. It is a pity that the industry didn't agree on > > standard uses for control keystrokes. Actually DEL is RUBOUT, which > > should be ignored since it is where the punched paper tape was > > backspaced and overpunched to remove an erroneous character. ESC is > > supposed to introduce a *sequence* of characters. > > > |-------------| > | o o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | o . o | > | o . | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o o | > | . o o | > | o o . o | > | o o . o o | > | o o . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o | > | o . | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . | > | . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o | > | . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | . o o | > | . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . | > | o . o | > | o . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | o o . o o | > | o . | > | o . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o o | > | o o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o o | > | . o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | . o o | > | o o . | > | o . o | > | o . o | > | . o | > | o . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | . o | > | . o o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | . o | > | . o o | > | o . | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o . o o | > | . o o | > | . o o o | > | . o o o | > | o o . | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | o o . o o | > | . o | > | o o . o o o | > | o o . o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | o . o | > | . o o | > | o o . o | > | o o . o o | > | o . o o | > | o . | > |-------------| -- Sam Hopkins ------------------------------------------------ Random QOTD: "It now costs more to amuse a child, than it once did to educate his father." ------------------------------------------------------- -- Sam Hopkins ------------------------------------------------ Random QOTD: "It now costs more to amuse a child, than it once did to educate his father." From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 15:35:11 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:35:11 0100 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <20010327142436.089CF199FE@mail.cse.psu.edu> i thought the 905C worked as of the 14th october update. mind you, we yesterday had trouble with a 3c509b, and i thought that worked too. similar problem: hang on boot. i haven't had a chance to look at that yet. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 14:35:23 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jean Mehat) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:35:23 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <200103271435.QAA28121@colombie.ai.univ-paris8.fr> > With network wake-up feature. The network wake-up feature is cause of a problem with certain versions of 3c905. You can't transfer a sequence of six bytes with value 0xff, with the current driver. You can disable it with a call to txrxreset() when initializing the card. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 15:27:34 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:27:34 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <20010327152742.6287119A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Tue Mar 27 09:38:26 EST 2001, jm@ai.univ-paris8.fr wrote: > > With network wake-up feature. > > The network wake-up feature is cause of a problem with certain versions > of 3c905. You can't transfer a sequence of six bytes with value 0xff, with > the current driver. You can disable it with a call to txrxreset() when > initializing the card. > Not only that. Between the 905B and 905C some compatibility features with older cards were dropped and the driver had to be told how to cope. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 16:51:19 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:51:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward In-Reply-To: <01032709015600.08511@softnet> References: <20010326141213.E674A19A08@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <200103271651.LAA06629@augusta.math.psu.edu> In article <01032709015600.08511@softnet> you write: >At the risk of asking a perhaps foolish question . . . >What the hell is this!?! It's a paper tape image. I'm not sure what the text says, though. I think the first letter is ``I,'' though. - Dan C. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 17:17:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:17:46 -0500 Subject: [9fans] baudot message Message-ID: <20010327171753.C63B5199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu> Note that you have to reverse the tape (left-right) to decode it, as the MSB is transmitted last. Thanks to Rob for help with decoding. --Cliff 10011 W 2 13 10100 H STOP 14 00110 I 8 06 10010 L ) 12 00001 E 3 01 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 10101 Y 6 15 11000 O 9 18 00111 U 7 07 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 01011 J ' 0B 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 01010 R 4 0A 00001 E 3 01 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 00011 A - 03 10000 T 5 10 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 00110 I 8 06 10000 T 5 10 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 10011 W 2 13 10100 H STOP 14 10101 Y 6 15 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 01100 N , 0C 11000 O 9 18 10000 T 5 10 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 00011 A - 03 01001 D $ 09 01001 D $ 09 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 01001 D $ 09 11000 O 9 18 00101 S BELL 05 01111 K ( 0F 00001 E 3 01 10101 Y 6 15 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 01101 F ! 0D 00111 U 7 07 01100 N , 0C 01110 C : 0E 10000 T 5 10 00110 I 8 06 11000 O 9 18 01100 N , 0C 00011 A - 03 10010 L ) 12 00110 I 8 06 10000 T 5 10 10101 Y 6 15 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 10000 T 5 10 11000 O 9 18 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 10000 T 5 10 10100 H STOP 14 00001 E 3 01 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 01110 C : 0E 11000 O 9 18 11100 M . 1C 11100 M . 1C 00011 A - 03 01100 N , 0C 01001 D $ 09 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 00100 SP SP 04 11111 LTRS LTRS 1F 10011 W 2 13 00110 I 8 06 01100 N , 0C 01001 D $ 09 11000 O 9 18 10011 W 2 13 11011 FIGS FIGS 1B 11001 B ? 19 00010 LF LF 02 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 17:49:40 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:49:40 -0500 Subject: [9fans] non-standard CD sizes Message-ID: <20010327174944.B0EEA199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> i've got a bunch of non-standard sized CDs (mini-CDs at ~51MB/6min, a few 800MB/80min). they're all blanks. i've also got a IDE NEC CD writer. the non-standard sizes don't show up as anything in cdfs (the small ones show up in /dev/sdD0, the big ones don't). is this a known limitation of cdfs/#S, or a problem with my hardware (never tried it on any other OS)? trying it elsewhere is obviously a good idea. i have an unopened spindle of 800MB blanks back at school that i'll try next week. i don't think it's a known problem. try doing "scuzz /dev/sdD0" and type "rdiscinfo" (at the invisible prompt). From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Mar 27 23:53:22 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:53:22 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD Message-ID: <200103272353.f2RNrMl88536@orthanc.ab.ca> A while back someone mentioned having an updated fileserver, and an auth servicer, running on FreeBSD. Was that code put online anywhere, and did someone save a pointer to it? --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 00:32:08 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Christopher Nielsen) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:32:08 -0800 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200103272353.f2RNrMl88536@orthanc.ab.ca>; from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca on Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:53:22PM -0700 References: <200103272353.f2RNrMl88536@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20010327163208.V7115@cassie.foobarbaz.net> On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:53:22PM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > A while back someone mentioned having an updated fileserver, and an auth > servicer, running on FreeBSD. Was that code put online anywhere, and > did someone save a pointer to it? I've been working on updating for FreeBSD -stable and -current the patches for FreeBSD 3.x that implement IL and 9P for FreeBSD, but I haven't finished them yet. There are significant diffs between FreeBSD 3.x, 4.x, and what will be 5.x, so it's taking longer than I anticipated. Also, I haven't had a whole lot of time to work on extra projects lately. Is this what you're referring to? -- Christopher Nielsen - Metal-wielding pyro techie cnielsen@pobox.com "Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." --unknown From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 03:46:03 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:46:03 -0500 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010328034613.20C2F199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> that was me. the u9fs is for 9P2000 although it supports 9P1 for backwards compatibility and testing. the 9auth is inspired by pace willisson (sp?)'s freebsd "il over raw sockets" auth server but not much of his code remains, if any. both are tcp only, running out of inetd, so they don't depend on the freebsd il patches. the biggest shortcoming is the lack of a portable way to implement append-only files. freebsd (and presumably the other unix clones) take append-only to mean "only appends succeed" rather than "all writes are treated as appends", and there's no standard way to enable even this. these programs aren't online, but i'll put them up next week (i'm away from the freebsd machine) for the interested parties. russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 04:59:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:59:21 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Update Message-ID: <20010328045923.5004E199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> An update of the 3rd release is now available at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9 This is likely to be the last shipment using the original protocol; the next release will probably be called the 4th edition and will use the new version of 9P. Note: If you installed Plan 9 between October 29, 2000 and November 29, 2000, you need to grab a new /wrap/plan9/971556349/md5sum file before installing the update. The update page has details. Today's update is substantially larger than previous ones, but there are substantially more things updated.... There are a number of new things, including: - Support for Lucent Orinoco (Wavelan) cards (thanks to Francisco Ballesteros). - Support for the Netgear GA620 gigabit Ethernet cards. - A much faster VNC viewer, vncviewer(1). - A preliminary kernel for the Compaq iPAQ h3650 and h3630, also known as the `bitsy'; look in /sys/src/9/bitsy. Associated with this are a variety of new pieces including a `scribble' library for character recognition and some tools; see scribble(2) and bitsyload(1). - A new compression/decompression library, flate(2). - A new library for grouped allocation, bin(2), plus a per-process allocator for threaded programs, privalloc(2). - A variety of tweaks to libc including case-insensitive string matching and pread and pwrite system calls (read and write with the file offset in the call rather than the fd). - Multiple boot configurations in plan9.ini(8). - Partial support of X.509 certificates. - Partial support of PNG images. - New Acme interfaces for news and wiki. - Support for rc(1)-style quoted strings in the C library, quote(2). This is the harbinger of future things, including: - A preliminary library of graphic controls (widgets); see control(2). There are plenty of bugs fixed, too. Kernel and networking fixes include: - Better timesync algorithms (no longer requiring floating point). - TCP/IP: - No longer loses queued bytes when shutting down a connection. - Too aggressive rexmits removed. - Reads now return as much data as possible instead of just the next segment's worth. - ip/dhcpd: - copy the contents of the gateway field from BOOTP/DHCP requests to replies - deal with requests containing huge leases - some protection against systems that don't give up their leases when they run out. - Graphics: - important fixes to alpha blending and allocation of images. - better conversion of true color to mapped images (rgb2cmap). - Libmp + libsec completely replace libcrypt. - Also assembly routines for various architectures speed things up. And of course zillions of other application and library fixes and enhancements. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 07:54:53 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Quinn Dunkan) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:54:53 -0800 Subject: [9fans] more questions Message-ID: <200103280754.XAA00562@tammananny.tiger> A few anal questions: Why does utflen() return an int instead of a long? Should Brdline take a Rune as the delimiter? isalpharune(2) claims that toupperrune and tolowerrune return ints, but they return Runes. 9p(2) says that "the wstat function takes a fid and a new Dir structure for it, as well as a bitmask specifying which fields to update". The signature in the struct Srv has no mention of a bitmask. Is the documentation in error? The following function, when called with 're = regcomp("(..):(..)")' and 's = "ab:34"' will print: matching against 'ab:34' However, when the first line after the '{' is changed from 'char *s, *src;' to 'char *s;', it will print: matching against 'ab:34' success The match will succeed if 'char *s' is placed below 'Reprog *re', but it will fail if placed below 'Resub matches[...]', or if it is at the top with 'Reprog *re' and 'Resub matches[...]' swapped. It will always fail if another 'char *' (or plain 'char') is declared on the same line as it is (the name doesn't matter). Another 'char *' being declared at the bottom makes the regexp succeed, though. // just a fragment static int re_sub(lua_State *L) { char *s, *src; Reprog *re; Resub matches[max_matches]; if (lua_tag(L, 1) != re_tag) luaL_argerror(L, 1, "expected regexp object"); re = (Reprog *) lua_touserdata(L, 1); s = luaL_check_string(L, 2); print("matching against '%s'\n", s); if (regexec(re, s, matches, max_matches) == 0) { lua_pushnil(L); return 1; } print("success\n"); return 0; } I was under the impression that changing the order of one's variable declarations should have no effect on the operation of the program. I tried making a standalone function (called from C), but the problem went away then. Could it be a compiler bug? It's hard to reduce since it's being called from lua, but if it could be a real issue I'll try to track it down. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 05:56:53 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:56:53 -0500 Subject: [9fans] more questions Message-ID: <20010328055702.5B7E2199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> the 9p(2) thing is an error. it sounds like an early version of 9p2000; probably i edited the wrong manual. don't get too comfortable with 9p(2). i changed a bunch of stuff (including interfaces) when i rewrote the library for 9p2000. in the lua code, what is max_matches? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 07:56:15 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 02:56:15 -0500 Subject: [9fans] writing with cdfs Message-ID: <20010328075625.6EC60199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> i've got a NEC CD-RW drive. it reads fine - i can plop in a cd, mount a file system from it, whatever. writing is failing in a way i don't understand. and no, i'm not using the non- standard sized disks i asked about earlier; i went out and picked up a few standard sized ones to test. no change. as soon as i try to write to /mnt/cd/wa, cdfs hangs. further request to it hang, as well. subsequent 'ls /mnt/cd' won't return, nor will 'cat /mnt/cd/ctl'. in an effort to figure out what's going on, i'm running 'cdfs -v'. in /tmp/cdfs.log there's loads of lines exactly like this one: dat read: i/o error: cmd 0x43 these show up even when i'm just reading. when i write a track, say with 'cp a000 /mnt/cd/wa', i get a series of lines like this: 985793380254305823: write 12 at 0x0 985793382932935724: write 12 at 0xc [...] 985793389322790504: write 12 at 0x708 985793389348130160: write 12 at 0x714 and the drive's making encouraging noises. after the last one (0x714), the drive stops, nothing's printed into the log, and i get the frozen behaviour described above. i let it sit for several hours (i was on my way out anyway) with no change. i was writing seven tracks (about half an hour of audio, 309MB) into the device. i've tested it trying to write a single 3 minute song. same behaviour. when this hangs, it _really_ hangs. cdfs is un-killable, as is any process talking to it, like the cat and ls above. after rebooting (since cdfs locks the device), i find an overly-large single audio track on the disk (>780MB on a standard CD?). the contents of this file don't seem to be anything recognizable. i suppose it's possible that this is a hardware issue. i've never used this particular drive. but it's brand new, so i consider that at least unlikely. -α. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 08:37:22 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:37:22 GMT Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 References: <20010327152742.6287119A04@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AC11356.3ECC9801@null.net> jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Not only that. Between the 905B and 905C some compatibility features > with older cards were dropped and the driver had to be told how to > cope. So how do we get an updated driver? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 08:37:06 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:37:06 GMT Subject: [9fans] Re: Booting Plan9 References: <99o9i0$4oq@nntpa.cb.lucent.com> Message-ID: <3AC10C81.710D09F3@null.net> The only way I know will work is to use a "partition boot". I use "System Commander" to manage booting multiple OSes, including Windows ME and 2000, Solaris 8, and Plan 9 r3. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 08:37:35 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Douglas A. Gwyn) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:37:35 GMT Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward References: <01032709015600.08511@softnet>, <200103271651.LAA06629@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AC112CC.A8C3BBBF@null.net> Dan Cross wrote: > It's a paper tape image. I'm not sure what the text says, though. Since it has 5 levels, one assumes it uses Baudot code. (He may have put the sprocket track in the wrong row.) Translating: WHILE YOU'RE AT IT WHY NOT ADD DOSKEY FUNCTIONALITY TOO THE COMMAND WINDOW? (There were unnecessary figure/letter shifts around the spaces.) From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 10:21:08 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:21:08 0100 Subject: [9fans] more questions Message-ID: <20010328101459.DF9E1199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> i've been bitten by that regexp problem before. your problem is that the matches array is being used uninitialised. as the documentation says: If match[0].sp is nonzero on entry, regexec starts matching at that point within string. If match[0].ep is nonzero on entry, the last character matched is the one preceding that point. in a larger program, your code would probably have broken... and then you'd probably have found the problem! cheers, rog. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 18:21:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:21:46 -0500 Subject: [9fans] apm works great in the new update Message-ID: <20010328120150.B3AD0199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> couldn't resist to say that APM works great now, with the new update, on my dell inspiron 7000. sorry to increase the noise in the list... From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 13:37:53 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:37:53 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <20010328133800.91A84199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Wed Mar 28 04:01:29 EST 2001, DAGwyn@null.net wrote: > jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > Not only that. Between the 905B and 905C some compatibility features > > with older cards were dropped and the driver had to be told how to > > cope. > > So how do we get an updated driver? The timing of yesterday's distribution update was due to internal reasons and for other reasons I was unable to participate much. Consequently there will likely be a small update in a week or so contining a number of driver fixes which should have made it out. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 13:40:27 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:40:27 -0500 Subject: [9fans] apm works great in the new update Message-ID: <20010328134028.926DC199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Wed Mar 28 07:02:25 EST 2001, nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es wrote: > couldn't resist to say that APM works great now, > with the new update, on my dell inspiron 7000. > > sorry to increase the noise in the list... I've had it randomly panic on every Thinkpad I've tried. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 14:02:26 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:02:26 -0500 Subject: [9fans] compaq h3650 (bitsy) port Message-ID: <20010328140229.1C484199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> It's missing a document describing how to get Plan 9 on the machine and a read/write file system for the flash. I'm writing the former and brucee has written the latter (but for the new 9P2000 protocol so I have to do a little conversion before I send it out. There'll be an update in a few days with both of these. As jmk said, we had internal (people scheduling) issues here that determined when the distribution got out so we'll dribble a few more things out over the next week or so. If any one is wondering, what you get with the bitsy port is: 1) a full plan 9 on the PDA 2) an emulated keyboard and a graffiti-like, one drawn character at a time, pen area 3) working speaker and headphone jack 4) a compressed read-only flash file system whose 5) a wavelan interface 6) a serial driver We have some power management (ilde mode) but we haven't finished putting the machine into sleep mode so that you can have a soft power-off. Right now you have to do a hard power off using the little dip switch accessible through a port in the bottom. That switch is only meant to disconnect the battery for shipping and can't be used forever, it'll break. In short it still has a ways to go before it gets out of toy stage. We'll get the power management and journaling flash file system out soon. What we're hoping we'll get back are more comm pcmcia devices for it so that it can become more useful. We also need more people playing with interfaces to make it easier to use. I've been using it as a portable laptop which kinda strains both my eyes and fingers. Rob's control(2) library should provide enough widgets to get some better UI's working (not just for the bitsy). From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 15:35:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ronald G Minnich) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:35:21 -0700 (MST) Subject: [9fans] loopback question Message-ID: I was playing around last night trying to see how to get IP loopback to go, since I don't yet have a working network iface on my thinkpad and I want to play with export/import of filesystems. Is it possible to use devloopback as an IP loopback interface, or will that not quite work. My few initial attempts did not work. If not, is there a way to do IP loopback? thanks ron From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 15:53:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:53:38 -0500 Subject: [9fans] loopback question Message-ID: <20010328155344.C6B7C199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-firmdvgetostijnakeiddwsugq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Make sure you have loopbackmedium in your kernel, e.g., link ... ethermedium loopbackmedium ... Then just use ipconfig to set it up: % ip/ipconfig loopback /dev/null 127.1 The /dev/null is not meaningful, it's ignored, ipconfig just needed a positional parameter there. Anything sent to 127.1 will loop back at the bottom of the stack. Is that what you wanted? --upas-firmdvgetostijnakeiddwsugq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Mar 28 10:36:27 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Mar 28 10:36:26 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B31219A02; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 135B8199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from snaresland.acl.lanl.gov (root@snaresland.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.113]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA32502 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (rminnich@localhost) by snaresland.acl.lanl.gov (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18152 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:35:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: snaresland.acl.lanl.gov: rminnich owned process doing -bs From: Ronald G Minnich X-Sender: rminnich@snaresland.acl.lanl.gov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] loopback question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:35:21 -0700 (MST) I was playing around last night trying to see how to get IP loopback to go, since I don't yet have a working network iface on my thinkpad and I want to play with export/import of filesystems. Is it possible to use devloopback as an IP loopback interface, or will that not quite work. My few initial attempts did not work. If not, is there a way to do IP loopback? thanks ron --upas-firmdvgetostijnakeiddwsugq-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 15:57:22 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:57:22 0100 Subject: [9fans] loopback question Message-ID: <20010328155541.18797199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kbathyfohbqpvayemiiskgoioa Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the update includes a loopbackmedium that can be configured and used in the ip stack. usage will be something like echo bind loopback >/net/ipifc/clone # find which ipifc was assigned, call that n echo add 127.0.0.1 >/net/ipifc/n/ctl --upas-kbathyfohbqpvayemiiskgoioa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 985793875:20:27479:14; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:37:55 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2027219; 28 Mar 2001 15:37 GMT Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B31219A02; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 135B8199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from snaresland.acl.lanl.gov (root@snaresland.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.113]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA32502 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (rminnich@localhost) by snaresland.acl.lanl.gov (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18152 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:35:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: snaresland.acl.lanl.gov: rminnich owned process doing -bs X-Sender: rminnich@snaresland.acl.lanl.gov To: cse.psu.edu!9fans Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] loopback question Sender: cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cse.psu.edu!9fans List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:35:21 -0700 (MST) I was playing around last night trying to see how to get IP loopback to go, since I don't yet have a working network iface on my thinkpad and I want to play with export/import of filesystems. Is it possible to use devloopback as an IP loopback interface, or will that not quite work. My few initial attempts did not work. If not, is there a way to do IP loopback? thanks ron --upas-kbathyfohbqpvayemiiskgoioa-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 16:09:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ronald G Minnich) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: [9fans] loopback question In-Reply-To: <20010328155344.C6B7C199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Anything sent to 127.1 will loop back at the bottom of the stack. > Is that what you wanted? It's perfect. Thanks. ron From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 16:16:24 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:16:24 GMT Subject: [9fans] Keyboard mapping Message-ID: <99t252$adp$1@noucreus.cesca.es> Hi, plan9 people. I've just installed plan9 on a PC. Works fine! If I convince the hardware guy, I'll be able to install more before they fire me. :-) The question is, is there any way to remap the keyboard layout, as I'm using a spanish layout keyboard? Maybe I'm skipping something? Thanks. -- ------------------------------- Ramon Poca - ramon@tau.uab.es http://tau.uab.es/~ramon ------------------------------- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 18:15:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:15:38 -0500 Subject: [9fans] more questions Message-ID: <20010328181540.8C504199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> Why does utflen() return an int instead of a long? It should be long; fixed. Should Brdline take a Rune as the delimiter? Probably, but it's a nasty change to make. isalpharune(2) claims that toupperrune and tolowerrune return ints, but they return Runes. You're right; fixed. -rob From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 18:51:05 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:51:05 +0200 Subject: [9fans] Keyboard mapping In-Reply-To: <99t252$adp$1@noucreus.cesca.es>:ramon@tau.removeme.uab.es's message of 16:16:24 Wednesday,28 March 2001 References: <99t252$adp$1@noucreus.cesca.es> Message-ID: <15042.12953.829559.101800@nido.hilbert.space> ramon@tau.removeme.uab.es writes: > From: ramon@tau.removeme.uab.es > Subject: [9fans] Keyboard mapping > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:16:24 GMT > > Hi, plan9 people. > > I've just installed plan9 on a PC. Works fine! If I convince > the hardware guy, I'll be able to install more before they fire me. :-) > > The question is, is there any way to remap the keyboard layout, > as I'm using a spanish layout keyboard? > > Maybe I'm skipping something? I write in spanish too. I am using the american mapping and the special methods of input described in /lib/keyboard. They are not too bad. HTH. -- Saludos, Gorka "Curiosity sKilled the cat" From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 19:26:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:26:49 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:46:03 EST." <20010328034613.20C2F199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <200103281926.f2SJQnl94482@orthanc.ab.ca> >>>>> "Russ" == Russ Cox writes: Russ> the biggest shortcoming Russ> is the lack of a portable way to implement append-only Russ> files. freebsd (and presumably the other unix clones) take Russ> append-only to mean "only appends succeed" rather than "all Russ> writes are treated as appends", and there's no standard way Russ> to enable even this. On 4.4BSD-derived systems you should be able to get the behaviour you want with chflags(path, UF_APPEND) after creating the file. During subsequent opens you would have to check for this flag, and open with O_APPEND if it is present (to force the writes to always be treated as appends). Did you try this? (I realize it's not very portable.) Without chflags() you would have to hijack on of the mode bits, which is downright evil. --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 19:32:13 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:32:13 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:32:08 PST." <20010327163208.V7115@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Message-ID: <200103281932.f2SJWDl94531@orthanc.ab.ca> >>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Nielsen writes: Christopher> I've been working on updating for FreeBSD -stable and Christopher> -current the patches for FreeBSD 3.x that implement Christopher> IL and 9P for FreeBSD, but I haven't finished them Christopher> yet. Christopher> Is this what you're referring to? No, it was the code Russ mentioned. (Although I'm looking forward to seeing your work as well.) --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 19:35:00 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:35:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200103281926.f2SJQnl94482@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > Russ> the biggest shortcoming > Russ> is the lack of a portable way to implement append-only > Russ> files. freebsd (and presumably the other unix clones) take > Russ> append-only to mean "only appends succeed" rather than "all > Russ> writes are treated as appends", and there's no standard way > Russ> to enable even this. > On 4.4BSD-derived systems you should be able to get the behaviour you > want with chflags(path, UF_APPEND) after creating the file. During > subsequent opens you would have to check for this flag, and open with > O_APPEND if it is present (to force the writes to always be treated as > appends). Did you try this? (I realize it's not very portable.) > Without chflags() you would have to hijack on of the mode bits, which > is downright evil. In case of Linux append-only is "all writes are treated as appends" (see mm/filemap.c::generic_file_write()), so no wanking with O_APPEND on subsequent open() is needed, but marking file append-only _is_ downright evil - ioctl(fd, EXT2_IOC_SETFLAGS, EXT2_APPEND_FL). chflags() had been discussed many times, there are several patches of varying age that implement it, but nobody cared enough to get them into the tree. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 19:48:19 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:48:19 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:35:00 EST." Message-ID: <200103281948.f2SJmJl94674@orthanc.ab.ca> >>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Viro writes: Alexander> In case of Linux append-only is "all writes are treated Alexander> as appends" (see mm/filemap.c::generic_file_write()), Alexander> so no wanking with O_APPEND on subsequent open() is Alexander> needed, O_APPEND probably isn't needed on BSD kernels, either. That was me being paranoid based on the comment that writes didn't always get treated as appends. --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 21:50:25 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Russ Cox) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:50:25 -0500 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010328215030.A51B0199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> O_APPEND probably isn't needed on BSD kernels, either. That was me being paranoid based on the comment that writes didn't always get treated as appends. No, it's needed. The behavior on FreeBSD really is what I said -- if you do a write with a file offset that is not the end of the file, the write fails. It doesn't pretend the offset really is at the end (as Plan 9 and apparently Linux do). It fails. Opening O_APPEND should, at least on a single system, insulate you from worrying about the offset. I hadn't thought of that. (My Unix instincts continue to dull.) Russ From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 21:58:49 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:58:49 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:50:25 EST." <20010328215030.A51B0199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <200103282158.f2SLwnl95358@orthanc.ab.ca> >>>>> "Russ" == Russ Cox writes: Russ> No, it's needed. The behavior on FreeBSD really is what I Russ> said -- if you do a write with a file offset that is not the Russ> end of the file, the write fails. This is almost certainly a bug. I'll verify what POSIX has to say about this and get a bug report filed. What (exact) version of FreeBSD did you observe this behaviour on? --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 22:22:21 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:22:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010328215030.A51B0199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Russ Cox wrote: > O_APPEND probably isn't needed on BSD kernels, either. That was me > being paranoid based on the comment that writes didn't always get > treated as appends. > > No, it's needed. The behavior on FreeBSD really is what > I said -- if you do a write with a file offset > that is not the end of the file, the write fails. > It doesn't pretend the offset really is at the > end (as Plan 9 and apparently Linux do). It fails. Umm... Actually, I was wrong - what actually happens with append-only on Linux looks so: * if file is marked append-only you can't open it for write without O_APPEND. open() will fail with -EPERM * You can't turn O_APPEND off (with fcntl()) if file is append-only * For any O_APPEND opened file write() ignores position and goes to the end of file. In case of FreeBSD you can open append-only files for write without O_APPEND, but attempt to write not at the EOF will fail. We could easily switch to Plan9 behaviour - all it takes is if (IS_APPEND(inode)) { - if ((flag & FMODE_WRITE) && !(flag & O_APPEND)) - goto exit; @@ if (IS_APPEND(inode)) { + if (flag & FMODE_WRITE) + flag |= O_APPEND; in open_namei(). I'm not sure that it's the right thing to do, though. Failing on write() is definitely too late, but silently adding O_APPEND may be rather confusing. Hell knows... I'll look at it. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 22:23:47 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:23:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200103282158.f2SLwnl95358@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > >>>>> "Russ" == Russ Cox writes: > > Russ> No, it's needed. The behavior on FreeBSD really is what I > Russ> said -- if you do a write with a file offset that is not the > Russ> end of the file, the write fails. > > This is almost certainly a bug. I'll verify what POSIX has to say > about this and get a bug report filed. What (exact) version of FreeBSD > did you observe this behaviour on? See ufs/ufs/ufs_readwrite.c and grep for APPEND. It's present in -STABLE. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 22:28:06 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:28:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [I wrote] > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > This is almost certainly a bug. I'll verify what POSIX has to say > > about this and get a bug report filed. What (exact) version of FreeBSD > > did you observe this behaviour on? > > See ufs/ufs/ufs_readwrite.c and grep for APPEND. It's present in -STABLE. PS: POSIX says nothing, since append-only is BSDism and POSIX is a codification of Missed'em'V bugs, so append-only is out of scope. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 22:56:14 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:56:14 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:28:06 EST." Message-ID: <200103282256.f2SMuEl95658@orthanc.ab.ca> >>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Viro writes: Alexander> PS: POSIX says nothing, since append-only is BSDism and Alexander> POSIX is a codification of Missed'em'V bugs, so Alexander> append-only is out of scope. Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing here. The chflags() behaviour is 4.4BSD-specific. The O_APPEND behaviour has been around since the dawn of time (or at least SVR1). My copy of POSIX is at home, however SuS V2 states explicitly (both open(2) and write(2)) that O_APPEND causes all writes to set the file pointer to the end of the file prior to performing the write I/O, and that the combination of the implicit seek and the associated write are atomic. --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 23:30:10 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:30:10 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:56:14 MST." <200103282256.f2SMuEl95658@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200103282330.f2SNUAl95945@orthanc.ab.ca> Okay, I think I see what's going on here. After reading ufs_readwrite.c it appears things are working as expected, and it's the expectations that are wrong. open with O_APPEND forces all writes to be appended. It sets program behaviour, and is doing the right thing. chflags with [US]F_APPEND sets a _policy_, that being that any write to the file must be an append operation. It doesn't force that behaviour, though, so you still need to open the file with O_APPEND. --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 23:35:34 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:35:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200103282256.f2SMuEl95658@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > >>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Viro writes: > > Alexander> PS: POSIX says nothing, since append-only is BSDism and > Alexander> POSIX is a codification of Missed'em'V bugs, so > Alexander> append-only is out of scope. > > Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing here. The chflags() > behaviour is 4.4BSD-specific. The O_APPEND behaviour has been around > since the dawn of time (or at least SVR1). My copy of POSIX is at > home, however SuS V2 states explicitly (both open(2) and write(2)) > that O_APPEND causes all writes to set the file pointer to the end of > the file prior to performing the write I/O, and that the combination > of the implicit seek and the associated write are atomic. Wait a second. The question being: what happens if you open append-only file with fd = open("foo", O_RDWR), then lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_SET), then write(fd, buf, len)? Plan9: append to EOF. Linux: -EPERM on open() FreeBSD: -EPERM on write() (open() succeeds). From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Mar 28 23:44:40 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:44:40 -0700 Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:35:34 EST." Message-ID: <200103282344.f2SNiel96030@orthanc.ab.ca> >>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Viro writes: Alexander> Linux: -EPERM on open() Broken. (Iff they are modeling chflags(). Linux likes to make up its own random braindead behaviours though.) Alexander> FreeBSD: -EPERM on write() (open() succeeds). Which is the correct behaviour (for chflags()). --lyndon From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 00:20:54 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:20:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200103282344.f2SNiel96030@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > >>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Viro writes: > > Alexander> Linux: -EPERM on open() > > Broken. (Iff they are modeling chflags(). Linux likes to make > up its own random braindead behaviours though.) > > Alexander> FreeBSD: -EPERM on write() (open() succeeds). > > Which is the correct behaviour (for chflags()). == behaves the same way as 4.4BSD (system that introduced chflags()). Whether said behaviour makes sense or not is a completely different question, though... From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 04:24:12 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Nehal N. Desai) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:24:12 -0700 (MST) Subject: [9fans] message passing.. sci programming Message-ID: <200103290424.VAA06811@fred.acl.lanl.gov> hi, has anyone looked into using message passing on plan9. We are looking into building a smallish plan9 cluster -- between 128 and 512 processors that we would like run some physics codes on (eg. weather modeling, QCD,etc)... right now. those most codes here use MPI or OpenMP. but is there is a better way that uses the plan 9 architecture in a more optimal (scalable) way. nehal From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 04:31:13 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Nehal N. Desai) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:31:13 -0700 (MST) Subject: [9fans] message passing.. sci programming In-Reply-To: <200103290424.VAA06811@fred.acl.lanl.gov> from "Nehal N. Desai" at Mar 28, 2001 09:24:12 PM Message-ID: <200103290431.VAA06869@fred.acl.lanl.gov> sorry for the elliptic (and incorrect) nature of the previous email. here's a corrected one.. stupidly yours, nehal > > hi, > has anyone looked into using message passing on > plan9. We are looking into building a > smallish plan9 cluster -- between 128 and 512 processors > that we would like to run some > physics codes on (eg. weather modeling, QCD,etc)... > right now, most codes here use MPI or OpenMP. > but is there a better way that uses the plan > 9 architecture in a more optimal (scalable) way. > > nehal > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 05:30:04 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Andrey A Mirtchovski) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:30:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] message passing.. sci programming In-Reply-To: <200103290431.VAA06869@fred.acl.lanl.gov> Message-ID: I was looking at the 9p protocol for implementing some sort of message passing in my project.. i had to abandon it for lack of time though... depending on how close one keeps to the 'all is file' paradigm 9p could really save the day :) andrey On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Nehal N. Desai wrote: > sorry for the elliptic (and incorrect) nature of the previous email. > here's a corrected one.. > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 06:14:20 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:14:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: [9fans] message passing.. sci programming In-Reply-To: <200103290424.VAA06811@fred.acl.lanl.gov> Message-ID: I'm also curious about such things. Please keep me in the loop... http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Nehal N. Desai wrote: > hi, > has anyone looked into using message passing on > plan9. We are looking into building a > smallish plan9 cluster -- between 128 and 512 processors > that we would like run some > physics codes on (eg. weather modeling, QCD,etc)... > right now. those most codes here use MPI or OpenMP. > but is there is a better way that uses the plan > 9 architecture in a more optimal (scalable) way. > > nehal > From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 08:27:10 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Boyd Roberts) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:27:10 GMT Subject: [9fans] 9fs/9auth for FreeBSD References: <20010328034613.20C2F199ED@mail.cse.psu.edu>, <200103281926.f2SJQnl94482@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: <99udqs$189a$1@news6.isdnet.net> Lyndon Nerenberg a crit dans le message : 200103281926.f2SJQnl94482@orthanc.ab.ca... > >>>>> "Russ" == Russ Cox writes: > > Russ> the biggest shortcoming > Russ> is the lack of a portable way to implement append-only > Russ> files. freebsd (and presumably the other unix clones) take > Russ> append-only to mean "only appends succeed" rather than "all > Russ> writes are treated as appends", and there's no standard way > Russ> to enable even this. > > On 4.4BSD-derived systems you should be able to get the behaviour you > want with chflags(path, UF_APPEND) after creating the file Nope, you just don't get it. An auto-apend file means that it works in general. Great for security logs when the file lies on some sort of write once media: echo foo > f Or should we build O_APPEND into _every tool_? cat -v city -- Boyd Roberts http://www.insultant.net boyd@insultant.net What do you know about surfing, Major? You're from goddamn New Jersey. -- Lt. Colonel Kilgore From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 08:26:51 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Boyd Roberts) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:26:51 GMT Subject: [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward References: <01032709015600.08511@softnet>, <200103271651.LAA06629@augusta.math.psu.edu>, <3AC112CC.A8C3BBBF@null.net> Message-ID: <99ucrp$bjq$1@news2.isdnet.net> Douglas A. Gwyn a crit dans le message : > WHILE YOU'RE AT IT WHY NOT ADD DOSKEY FUNCTIONALITY TOO THE COMMAND WINDOW? > (There were unnecessary figure/letter shifts around the spaces.) While I've rarely agreed with you I know you're no fool. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 08:26:06 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (David Rubin) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:26:06 GMT Subject: [9fans] Re: Keyboard mapping References: <99t252$adp$1@noucreus.cesca.es> Message-ID: <3AC22B4C.25F0953@hotmail.com> ramon@tau.removeme.uab.es wrote: > The question is, is there any way to remap the keyboard layout, > as I'm using a spanish layout keyboard? Look at http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/presotto/kbdmap.c AFAIK, this can do it, although I haven't tried. david -- FORTRAN was the language of choice for the same reason that three-legged races are popular. -- Ken Thompson, "Reflections on Trusting Trust" From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 08:26:23 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Michael H. Collins) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:26:23 GMT Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 References: Message-ID: <3AC298D9.6090509@austin.rr.com> That is the one. works well. Sadanand Warrier wrote: > >> is it really PCMCIA? the only PCMCIA 3com cards supported (i believe) are > > 3c589, 3c562 > >> and some minor variants. normally 3C905 is a PCI card. i'll see if i can > > find a 905C > >> card here that's not in use, to test it. >> > > > My mistake . It is a PCI card. To be exact > > 3COM 3C905C-TX 10/100 Etherlink IIIB PCI Ethernet adapter OEM, > Twisted Pair(RJ-45) Only. With network wake-up feature. > > Would this cause a problem. > > S From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 08:26:37 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Michael H. Collins) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:26:37 GMT Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 References: <20010327094451.8952E199DC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <3AC298A1.1080001@austin.rr.com> I have sucessfully used many 3c905c cards. The work no p. Don't even have to spec the io and irq. forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: >> normally 3C905 is a PCI card. i'll see if i can find a 905C > card here that's not in use, to test it. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > > [9fans] Booting Plan9 > Date: > > Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:25:42 GMT > To: > > cse.psu.edu!9fans > > > Hi > I'm trying to install Plan9 on a new PC. I've got 3 partitions. Windows > ME hogs the first two and I'm trying to install Plan 9 on the third > partition (its about 30 GB). > The installation of Plan 9 goes through quite successfully. I have no > problems with the VGA (ATI Xpert 98) and unpack proceeds well. > Finally at bootsetup I created a boot floppy and I also opted to boot > from the disk. This does not work at all because the Windows ME idea of a > boot record may be different from Windows 98 or NT. > However when I try to boot from the boot floppy it hangs after it says > its booting the image from sdC0. The message I get is panic: kernel iunlock. > I've looked at the code in code in /sys/src/boot/pc and I cannot find this > message though there seem to be iunlocks associated with ethernet drivers. > I have a 3COM PCMCIA 3C905C lan card. Would this cause a problem? The > CPU is a 1.2 Gig Athlon. > > S > Part 1.1 > > Content-Type: > > text/plain > Content-Encoding: > > 7bit > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2.1 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2 > > Content-Type: > > message/rfc822 From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 08:48:38 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:48:38 +0100 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <20010329085059.02C66199F3@mail.cse.psu.edu> >>I have sucessfully used many 3c905c cards. The work no p. Don't even >>have to spec the io and irq. yes, it works with the drivers from 14 october. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 13:44:56 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:44:56 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <20010329134458.8DD0C199F1@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Thu Mar 29 03:40:35 EST 2001, mhtexcollins@austin.rr.com wrote: > I have sucessfully used many 3c905c cards. The work no p. Don't even > have to spec the io and irq. > and On Thu Mar 29 03:51:29 EST 2001, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote: > >>I have sucessfully used many 3c905c cards. The work no p. Don't even > >>have to spec the io and irq. > > yes, it works with the drivers from 14 october. > I don't think this is quite true. When we looked at it Jean Mehat and I found the 905C seems to need a Tx/Rx reset when it comes up with power-management enabled internally and because of my laziness there are paths through the initialisation code where no reset will be done; it all depends on how the card is internally configured and the result of the autonegotiation. The missing Tx/Rx reset will apear in the next update (I don't know how it was missed out when the other 905C chnages went in last October) but the fix is to add txrxreset(port); after if(did == 0x9055 || did == 0x9200){ At least, that was our limited understanding of the problem. --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 15:10:03 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:10:03 +0100 Subject: [9fans] Online-Umfrage Message-ID: <200103291409.QAA18197@post.webmailer.de> RWB Finanz


Wir würden uns freuen, wenn Sie an unserer Umfrage über Vermögens-anlagen teilnehmen. Wir bedanken uns bei den ersten fünfzig ehrlichen Antworten mit einer Flasche Heuchelberg Sekt Jahrgang 2000, die wir
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From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 14:06:01 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:06:01 0100 Subject: [9fans] Booting Plan9 Message-ID: <20010329145823.164DE199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> >>> >>> yes, it works with the drivers from 14 october. >>> >> >>I don't think this is quite true. When we looked at it Jean >>Mehat and I found the 905C seems to need a Tx/Rx reset when it >>comes up with power-management enabled internally and because obviously i ought to have said: all i know is that it works better with the drivers from 14 october than it did with the older ones! From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 17:05:57 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:05:57 -0500 Subject: [9fans] message passing.. sci programming Message-ID: <20010329170600.1C441199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zmoimvgbqdismsaeleqmpnvdwg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What semanitcs are you looking for with the messages? If it's just n to 1 with in order delivery and message boundaries, you can just use pipes bound into the file system. The reader does the bind and then exports (via exportfs) his name space to every system that wants to send him messages. Each party can do the same to affect 2 way communication. No special tools necessary. Of course, you have to provide your own pickling/marshaling routines... --upas-zmoimvgbqdismsaeleqmpnvdwg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Mar 28 23:25:24 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Mar 28 23:25:23 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C05519A14; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:25:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9E7D199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:24:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from fred.acl.lanl.gov (root@fred.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.165]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA143173 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:24:12 -0700 (MST) From: "Nehal N. Desai" Received: (from nehal@localhost) by fred.acl.lanl.gov (8.9.3/8.8.8) id VAA06811 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:24:12 -0700 Message-Id: <200103290424.VAA06811@fred.acl.lanl.gov> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] message passing.. sci programming Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:24:12 -0700 (MST) hi, has anyone looked into using message passing on plan9. We are looking into building a smallish plan9 cluster -- between 128 and 512 processors that we would like run some physics codes on (eg. weather modeling, QCD,etc)... right now. those most codes here use MPI or OpenMP. but is there is a better way that uses the plan 9 architecture in a more optimal (scalable) way. nehal --upas-zmoimvgbqdismsaeleqmpnvdwg-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Mar 29 17:17:36 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Ronald G Minnich) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:17:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: [9fans] message passing.. sci programming In-Reply-To: <20010329170600.1C441199EB@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > What semanitcs are you looking for with the messages? If it's > just n to 1 with in order delivery and message boundaries, you > can just use pipes bound into the file system. The reader does > the bind and then exports (via exportfs) his name space to every > system that wants to send him messages. Each party can do the same > to affect 2 way communication. No special tools necessary. I've been wondering about this. Does anyone know how much you lose in bandwidth over raw IL or TCP links? ron From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 03:35:33 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:35:33 -0500 Subject: [9fans] writing with cdfs In-Reply-To: Message from anothy@cosym.net of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 02:56:15 EST." <20010328075625.6EC60199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010330033533.17514.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> > when this hangs, it _really_ hangs. cdfs is un-killable, as > is any process talking to it, like the cat and ls above. Speaking of that, one of my pet peeves is that a misbehaving file server can make application processes uninterruptably block in read or write. It reminds me of the early days of NFS. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 09:00:14 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (David Rubin) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:00:14 GMT Subject: [9fans] Re: Keyboard mapping References: <99t252$adp$1@noucreus.cesca.es>, <3AC22B4C.25F0953@hotmail.com>, <9a0394$r2d$1@news2.isdnet.net> Message-ID: <3AC411F5.706AFB02@hotmail.com> Boyd Roberts wrote: > > David Rubin a crit dans le message : > 3AC22B4C.25F0953@hotmail.com... > > > > http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/presotto/kbdmap.c > > > > has this been tested on a latin-1 keyboard where > you can type 8 bit chars? Not by me. Go for it. david -- FORTRAN was the language of choice for the same reason that three-legged races are popular. -- Ken Thompson, "Reflections on Trusting Trust" From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 08:37:40 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Boyd Roberts) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:37:40 GMT Subject: [9fans] Re: Keyboard mapping References: <99t252$adp$1@noucreus.cesca.es>, <3AC22B4C.25F0953@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <9a0394$r2d$1@news2.isdnet.net> David Rubin a crit dans le message : 3AC22B4C.25F0953@hotmail.com... > > http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/presotto/kbdmap.c > has this been tested on a latin-1 keyboard where you can type 8 bit chars? From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 08:37:58 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Richard Greenblott) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:37:58 GMT Subject: [9fans] What are the steps to add new video drivers? Message-ID: <3AC3BC0A.A1246494@nextabit.com> Hi: I am tring to install Plan9 on a pentium III processor from DELL. The video board is one that is not currently supported by the Plan9 project. How can I add a new driver without first having Plan9 running. My card is a NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS. I have been able to get this card working with Linux but not with Plan9. The system does start to load the OS from my floppy but it stops and dumps the video prom and ends with a "%" prompt. Any help or suggestions would be great. Thanks: Rick G. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 13:50:40 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:50:40 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Re: Keyboard mapping Message-ID: <20010330135042.51CAA199F3@mail.cse.psu.edu> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wfpwmscekreplkmprioadtihrr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not really, if your keyboard is producing latin1, then kbd.c in the kernel is going to screw it up because it'll mask off the hight bit and run the characters through kbtab in kbd.c. Got a pointer to what one really produces? If its a standard, we should just put both mappings in kbd.c and have a plan9.ini parameter switch between them. --upas-wfpwmscekreplkmprioadtihrr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Mar 30 04:06:42 EST 2001 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Mar 30 04:06:41 EST 2001 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 427C3199F9; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 04:05:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8183A199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 04:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14iuQB-0004CQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:38:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Boyd Roberts Message-ID: <9a0394$r2d$1@news2.isdnet.net> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK References: <99t252$adp$1@noucreus.cesca.es>, <3AC22B4C.25F0953@hotmail.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: Keyboard mapping Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:37:40 GMT David Rubin a crit dans le message : 3AC22B4C.25F0953@hotmail.com... > > http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/presotto/kbdmap.c > has this been tested on a latin-1 keyboard where you can type 8 bit chars? --upas-wfpwmscekreplkmprioadtihrr-- From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 14:18:58 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:18:58 -0500 Subject: [9fans] What are the steps to add new video drivers? Message-ID: <20010330141900.7154B199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Fri Mar 30 04:08:19 EST 2001, rgreenbl@nextabit.com wrote: > Hi: > I am tring to install Plan9 on a pentium III processor from DELL. > The video board is one that is not currently supported by the Plan9 > project. How can I add a new driver without first having Plan9 running. > My card is a NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS. I have been able to get this card > working with Linux but not with Plan9. > > The system does start to load the OS from my floppy but it stops and > dumps the video prom and ends with a "%" prompt. > > Any help or suggestions would be great. > > Thanks: > > Rick G. My advice is to install Plan 9 on a machine that has a suitable video board, then you can go through the driver development cycle in a more friendly environment. Having support for Nvidea cards would be great, by the way. --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 14:46:04 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Mike Acar) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:46:04 +0200 Subject: [9fans] What are the steps to add new video drivers? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:18:58 -0500 <20010330141900.7154B199EF@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20010330144610Z114469-17752+137@trolltech.com> jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > My advice is to install Plan 9 on a machine that has a suitable video > board, then you can go through the driver development cycle in a more > friendly environment. > > Having support for Nvidea cards would be great, by the way. Indeed, I keep thinking that I'd like to take a whack at getting my TNT2 Ultra working. Unfortunately my Copious Free Time hasn't yet been copious enough to let me gather together the necessary computers; it seems like you're talking about at least three for something like a normal environment: an operational terminal for development, a file server, and a machine with the card you're developing for. -- Brilliance and gorgeousness | Mike Acar And we tell ourselves we don't want the treasures | mike@trolltech.com But we hate the glass anyway | From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 15:56:39 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:56:39 -0500 Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010330155641.9D9EA19A00@mail.cse.psu.edu> My first screw up in the current release: % diff ../port/portclock.c /n/emelieother/plan9/sys/src/9/port 72,73c72,73 < m->inclockintr = 0; < if(up == 0 || up->state != Running) --- > if(up == 0 || up->state != Running){ > m->inclockintr = 0; 74a75 > } 76c77 < if(anyready()){ --- > if(anyready()) 78,79d78 < splhi(); < } 85a85 > m->inclockintr = 0; I'll do a wrap soon with this and other updates. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 16:52:27 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:52:27 -0500 Subject: [9fans] What are the steps to add new video drivers? Message-ID: <20010330165229.7B33619A01@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Fri Mar 30 09:47:25 EST 2001, mike@trolltech.com wrote: > > jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > My advice is to install Plan 9 on a machine that has a suitable video > > board, then you can go through the driver development cycle in a more > > friendly environment. > > > > Having support for Nvidea cards would be great, by the way. > > Indeed, I keep thinking that I'd like to take a whack at getting my TNT2 Ultra > working. Unfortunately my Copious Free Time hasn't yet been copious enough to > let me gather together the necessary computers; it seems like you're talking > about at least three for something like a normal environment: an operational > terminal for development, a file server, and a machine with the card you're > developing for. > Basically you need somewhere to compile aux/vga and a new kernel with a stub driver for the card. The machine with the new card needs to be able to boot the newly compiled kernel and be attached to the fileserver that has the hacked aux/vga binary somewhere. Here's the kernel stub I used when I briefly looked at the GeForce256 when one arrived in a server I'd ordered - vgageforce256.c: #include "u.h" #include "../port/lib.h" #include "mem.h" #include "dat.h" #include "fns.h" #include "io.h" #include "../port/error.h" #define Image IMAGE #include #include #include #include "screen.h" static ulong geforce245linear(VGAscr* scr, int* size, int* align) { ulong aperture, oaperture; int oapsize, wasupamem; Pcidev *p; oaperture = scr->aperture; oapsize = scr->apsize; wasupamem = scr->isupamem; aperture = 0; if(p = pcimatch(nil, 0x10DE, 0)){ switch(p->did){ case 0x0101: aperture = p->mem[1].bar & ~0x0F; *size = p->mem[1].size; break; default: break; } } if(wasupamem){ if(oaperture == aperture) return oaperture; upafree(oaperture, oapsize); } scr->isupamem = 0; aperture = upamalloc(aperture, *size, *align); if(aperture == 0){ if(wasupamem && upamalloc(oaperture, oapsize, 0)){ aperture = oaperture; scr->isupamem = 1; } else scr->isupamem = 0; } else scr->isupamem = 1; return aperture; } VGAdev vgageforce256dev = { "geforce256", nil, /* enable */ nil, /* disable */ nil, /* page */ geforce245linear, /* linear */ nil, /* drawinit */ nil, /* fill */ }; and here's a stub for aux/vga - geforce256: #include #include #include #include "vga.h" /* * GeForce256. */ static void snarf(Vga* vga, Ctlr* ctlr) { USED(vga); ctlr->flag |= Fsnarf; } static void options(Vga* vga, Ctlr* ctlr) { USED(vga); ctlr->flag |= Foptions; } static void init(Vga* vga, Ctlr* ctlr) { USED(vga); ctlr->flag |= Finit; } static void load(Vga* vga, Ctlr* ctlr) { USED(vga); ctlr->flag |= Fload; } static void dump(Vga* vga, Ctlr* ctlr) { USED(vga, ctlr); } Ctlr geforce256 = { "geforce256", /* name */ snarf, /* snarf */ options, /* options */ init, /* init */ load, /* load */ dump, /* dump */ }; At this point I usually write the snarf and dump functions; with the GeForce256 I looked at the register set of the card as described in the XFree86 code (the only 'documentation') and decided I didn't have the strength. --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 16:58:44 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:58:44 -0500 Subject: [9fans] What are the steps to add new video drivers? Message-ID: <20010330165851.6131E19A09@mail.cse.psu.edu> I should say that the kernel stub driver, once you have the linear mapping done for whatever memory spaces the card needs, usually doesn't need to be changed until you get to writing the hardware cursor code, and that's the last part of writing a Plan 9 video driver. --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Mar 30 16:12:36 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 17:12:36 +0100 Subject: [9fans] What are the steps to add new video drivers? Message-ID: <20010330170451.14DEA19A07@mail.cse.psu.edu> > let me gather together the necessary computers; it seems like you're talking > about at least three for something like a normal environment: an operational > terminal for development, a file server, and a machine with the card you're > developing for. if are developing a driver for a new AGP card, and you've got a working PCI card, or vice versa, you can use one machine and switch between AGP and PCI using the bios. it's tedious but should work. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 31 02:20:19 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Nicholas Waples) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:20:19 +1000 Subject: [9fans] Nvidia video driver Message-ID: <3AC53EE3.ABB24F05@pobox.com> I had a bit of spare time and hacked up a driver for my TNT (NV4) video card. It doesnt do hardware accelleration (hw cursor works tho), and Ive only been playing with 8bit modes, but it seems to work for me now in the few modes ive tried (not that I understand why all the time). I was going to post it when I cleaned it up and tested it a bit more, but that got interrupted by my move back to aus. Hopefully, it should pretty much work for other NV4 based cards (TNT2, etc..), and NV10 cards (Geforce, Geforce2) require a little bit more work at least. In the next couple of weeks I should be able to get back onto it, and may even try getting a Geforce2 MX to work. Nick From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 31 03:37:46 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:37:46 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Nvidia video driver Message-ID: <20010331033749.9A438199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> On Fri Mar 30 21:19:25 EST 2001, nickw@pobox.com wrote: > I had a bit of spare time and hacked up a driver for my TNT (NV4) video > card. It doesnt do hardware accelleration (hw cursor works tho), and Ive > only been playing with 8bit modes, but it seems to work for me now in > the > few modes ive tried (not that I understand why all the time). > I was going to post it when I cleaned it up and tested it a bit more, > but that got interrupted by my move back to aus. > Hopefully, it should pretty much work for other NV4 based cards (TNT2, > etc..), and NV10 cards (Geforce, Geforce2) require a little bit more > work at least. In the next couple of weeks I should be able to get back > onto it, and may even try getting a Geforce2 MX to work. > > > > Nick That would be great. Often it's just getting over the initial hurdle of slogging through whatever documentation you have and trying to match it to what you see when you dump the registers; the boost from seeing pixels on the screen change when you hit a key is usually encouragement enough to finish the job. There are enough people out there with Nvidia cards that once you let them loose on the code I'm sure it'll progress to cover all the parts you didn't get to. --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 31 05:51:25 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:51:25 -0500 Subject: [9fans] sam & rio Message-ID: <20010331055126.9EB1C199FA@mail.cse.psu.edu> rob mentions the danger of having two interfaces being almost the same but different as an argument against having DEL act differently in sam and rio. i'll just mention my major point of frustration on this topic: the lack of chorded cut/paste in sam. i am so used to do this in rio and acme that i have become almost crippled in sam. the lack of auto-scroll° and selecting off the top or bottom of the window round out my list of annoying diffs between sam and rio/acme. luckily, with the addition of the sam command language to acme, i now have no reason to use sam†. now if acme only did "win" windows as well as rio (how i miss the input/output point distinction), i might not run rio either‡. ° why doesn't auto-scroll work with the middle and right buttons? † splitting front-end from back-end is still useful for slow links. ‡ of course, graphing programs must still be run from rio. From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 31 12:25:24 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Richard Greenblott) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:25:24 -0500 Subject: [9fans] Nvidia video driver References: <20010331033749.9A438199F4@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <008401c0b9dd$a9be35e0$1e8c1e42@ne.mediaone.net> Let me know if you need help with the development. I would be happy to assist. Thanks: Rick G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Nvidia video driver > On Fri Mar 30 21:19:25 EST 2001, nickw@pobox.com wrote: > > I had a bit of spare time and hacked up a driver for my TNT (NV4) video > > card. It doesnt do hardware accelleration (hw cursor works tho), and Ive > > only been playing with 8bit modes, but it seems to work for me now in > > the > > few modes ive tried (not that I understand why all the time). > > I was going to post it when I cleaned it up and tested it a bit more, > > but that got interrupted by my move back to aus. > > Hopefully, it should pretty much work for other NV4 based cards (TNT2, > > etc..), and NV10 cards (Geforce, Geforce2) require a little bit more > > work at least. In the next couple of weeks I should be able to get back > > onto it, and may even try getting a Geforce2 MX to work. > > > > > > > > Nick > > That would be great. Often it's just getting over the initial hurdle > of slogging through whatever documentation you have and trying to match > it to what you see when you dump the registers; the boost from seeing > pixels on the screen change when you hit a key is usually encouragement > enough to finish the job. > > There are enough people out there with Nvidia cards that once you let > them loose on the code I'm sure it'll progress to cover all the parts > you didn't get to. > > --jim From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sat Mar 31 12:34:55 2001 From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (rob pike) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:34:55 -0500 Subject: [9fans] sam & rio Message-ID: <20010331123458.69F66199E3@mail.cse.psu.edu> I regret that sam doesn't do chorded cut and paste, and have tried several times to fix that deficiency, but the split design of sam causes a division of labor that makes chording very difficult. The same applies to scrolling when selecting. On the other hand, I find the monolithic design of acme limits its ability to do some other things, such as work well over slow links. If win worked as a file system serving /dev/cons itself, it would behave a little better, but there would still be a race between where acme puts stuff and where win thinks it is. That is fixable by extending acme's external interface somewhat, but at that point you've built three levels of file system serving /dev/cons and it seems like overkill to me. My solution is not to run win much, either. I always thought of it as an expedient workaround. Acme iself is already a shell. -rob